Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

RasTa

RasTa wrote: »

I'd still drop Mata for Di Maria against Liverpool

HAH!

keane2097

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He did loose possession a couple of times and we looked to have lost a bit of shape but his assist was sublime so no doubt in my mind he will come good again.

He's a winger, he's going to lose possession.

According to whoscored Alexis Sanchez has 76.4% pass completion for example, Di Maria has 77.6%.

Giggsy11

keane2097 wrote: »

Anyone else find the criticism of Di Maria yesterday laughable? On for about half an hour, assists a goal, assists a penalty win and about a foot away from putting another goal on a plate for Rooney.

I think Young has been playing well, but the above is more in end product in 30/35 minutes than Young has managed in a whole season.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Also Di Maria made few stupid decisions and gave away the ball but that's exactly the type of player he is. Played a beauty pass to Mata, almost assist to Rooney and a pass that won the penalty for us. He creates and gives away possession, always the same player.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94787984&postcount=2473

Almost same post

keane2097

Giggsy11 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94787984&postcount=2473

Almost same post

You are wicked smart obv

Vic Vinegar

Three legends!

Fergie is looking really well.

The Gibzilla

keane2097 wrote: »

Anyone else find the criticism of Di Maria yesterday laughable? On for about half an hour, assists a goal, assists a penalty win and about a foot away from putting another goal on a plate for Rooney.

I think Young has been playing well, but the above is more in end product in 30/35 minutes than Young has managed in a whole season.

I think both did well at different points. Young tracked back well in the first half and supported Blind, he also covered Valencia when he slipped at the back.

Di Maria posed a greater attacking threat when he came on and helped to seal the victory. He still does some silly things though (catching the ball before it went out was a bit school-boy IMO) and I can see why people consider him lazy when it comes to tracking back, but I don't think anyone can question his attacking quality when he's up for it.

Giggsy11

M!Ck^ wrote: »

He did loose possession a couple of times and we looked to have lost a bit of shape but his assist was sublime so no doubt in my mind he will come good again.

keane2097 wrote: »

He's a winger, he's going to lose possession.

According to whoscored Alexis Sanchez has 76.4% pass completion for example, Di Maria has 77.6%.

Di Maria's pass completion is in high 70s in all the years in Europe. He is exactly the same player he was, always tries too many things and gives away possession. I don't have any issues with that, I always had so much time for players who tries to unlock defense than pass sideways

Also his unsuccessful touches, possession lost are almost same as last few years.

http://www.whoscored.com/Players/23110/History/ngel-Di-Mara

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

That's fair enough. When I said he won't work out there against better opposition I was thinking more about the CL. The odd PL team too, depending on how good they are from season to season.



I agree there are times where a midfielder can do nothing about a counter. But in the times where that isn't the case, I'd worry that his relative lack of athleticism could be exploited.

I agree about Athleticism. Maybe we are at the bottom of the table when it comes to physically strong players in the league. One of the reason why I want Fellaini in the team.

Maximus Alexander

Giggsy11 wrote: »

I agree about Athleticism. Maybe we are at the bottom of the table when it comes to physically strong players in the league. One of the reason why I want Fellaini in the team.

I think there's a lack of pace, but I don't agree about strength. Fellaini looks exceptionally strong, but I wouldn't say the rest of the lads are push overs.

Cantona's Collars

After yesterday's game,it's clear to see that Rodger's game plan is to have his players tear around like blue arse flies for the first 20 minutes or so but LVG's tactic didn't allow them to do that & as a result they found themselves pinned back with no real plan B bar a few long balls for Sturridge or Sterling to try to run onto.

We got accused & laughed at for hoofball yet had nearly 70% of the ball in the first 35 minutes or so.The 4-3-3 set up with players interchanging positions had Liverpool in a tizzy with Rodgers clearly unable to come up with something to get his players to combat it.LVG was clearly unhappy with our 2nd half performance and said so after the game,had we stuck to the policy of the first half,it would have been a much more comprehensive win.

Giggsy11

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I think there's a lack of pace, but I don't agree about strength. Fellaini looks exceptionally strong, but I wouldn't say the rest of the lads are push overs.

I would say Smalling, Valencia and Fellaini are exceptionally strong and Herrera is more of a hassler than physical player. When it comes to attacking Rooney, Herrera, Di Maria, Mata, Fellaini plays more in the final third. Would say only Fellaini is strong.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

There is also one more site right where you can see which player has passed the ball to which player.

Remember checking it last year when RVP and Rooney passed the ball between them only 4-5 times

Edit: got it. Just didnt check other tabs.

It seems to be only the highest pass combinations that they list on the statszone page.

On the UEFA website they have great stat sheets for CL and EL games. One of them lists every pass combination for every player. They're in Press Kits on the stat page for each game. I don't know of any site that does it for non CL/EL games. We'll have to wait until next season for all that fancy stuff again.

keane2097

keane2097 wrote: »

He's a winger, he's going to lose possession.

According to whoscored Alexis Sanchez has 76.4% pass completion for example, Di Maria has 77.6%.

I know and I agree, I think sometimes our expectancy of Di Maria is he always has to do something magical and could never be prone to error.

It's just he has been muscled out of possession and has had some failings with his defensive duties lately but he's still providing assists and his pass accuracy has been great regardless.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

It seems to be only the highest pass combinations that they list on the statszone page.

On the UEFA website they have great stat sheets for CL and EL games. One of them lists every pass combination for every player. They're in Press Kits on the stat page for each game. I don't know of any site that does it for non CL/EL games. We'll have to wait until next season for all that fancy stuff again.

Yeah, they used to track the KMs run by each player but now I don't think they do it.

Loved their stats though, not just tackle and interceptions they also track ball recoveries.

UnitedIrishman

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It's all about unrealistic expectation. With his price tag and reputation I think there are people out there who expect his every touch of the ball to be pure perfection and it's a dagger in their heart every time he mi****s a cross or plays a wayward pass.

That said, he is capable of more, we haven't seen him at his blistering best in a United shirt yet. He has been pretty effective for the most part though.

I think what happens Di Maria too that makes him look worse is that for some strange reason when he loses the ball, nearly every time the opposition seem to make a chance out of it down the other end. Not quite sure how it happens all the time because another player could give it away 10 times and nothing happen. He didn't exactly burst a gut to try win the ball back on a couple of occasions too which doesn't tend to sit well with fans.

He hasn't been brilliant this season but he's still making chances for players. I've no doubt he'll be flying next season. Think he needs to relax though with constantly trying to hit the final ball or make a mental run every time - if he can pick and choose his moments while linking up with the rest of the team then he'll fit in to the side nicely.

homerjay2005

Jay ‏@RFFH 14h14
Steven Gerrard becomes the first player ever to have his full game shown on #MOTD

Korat

Fellaini playing 10 for Utd is an indication of where the team is now.

Di Maria and Falcao misfiring more so.

Steadying the ship and getting back into the CL is the priority but this situation can't become an acceptable norm.

Mousewar

What a scoundrel Steven Gerrard is. He gets praised for his honest apology* yet he failed to even mention the person whose leg he stamped on.

*And to be pedantic, he didn't apologise at all, he just said he was coming 'out here to apologise' without ever specifically doing so.

Whatsisname

Korat wrote: »

Fellaini playing 10 for Utd is an indication of where the team is now.

Di Maria and Falcao misfiring more so.

Steadying the ship and getting back into the CL is the priority but this situation can't become an acceptable norm.

please for the love of god dont start the fellaini argument again

keane2097

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Can someone explain the joke to me? I didn't see MOTD!

Drumpot

Korat wrote: »

Fellaini playing 10 for Utd is an indication of where the team is now.

Di Maria and Falcao misfiring more so.

Steadying the ship and getting back into the CL is the priority but this situation can't become an acceptable norm.

I don't get this kind of logic. Ive listened to very misguided pundits talk about how "this is Manchester United, they shouldn't be targeting 4th" as if the club has lowered its ambitions.

The clubs ambition is to win the league and champions league. Spending 150million highlighted this ambition. The club finished 7th last season and looked in complete disarray since SAF left. The club needed to stabilise before it started to make unreasonable demands and targets.

Sometimes I think people think real life football management is like a videogame. That throwing money at a problem solves all ills immediately.

United look like they will get a top 4 spot and that they are on an upward curve. Despite what many consider an awful season, United may end up finishing 2nd and we look in better shape then City right now. .

I don't think anybody at United thinks 4th is an acceptable norm, but the last two years have been anything but normal. . Going forward many of us will expect (rightly) that the club will be challenging for the league and putting in an impressive run in the CL.

LVG has completely revamped the team and the way it plays. To expect results as quickly as the doom merchants did early on in the season was ridiculous. Its just apart of the game now where people expect instant gratification. Patience is not a virtue in football.

Korat

Whatsisname wrote: »

please for the love of god dont start the fellaini argument again

Woa.. I'm not going there.

Fellaini is doing a job now. Great.

If we want to win titles and compete in the CL we'll need something better though.

Drumpot

keane2097 wrote: »

Can someone explain the joke to me? I didn't see MOTD!

Gerrard was only on the pitch for 38 seconds. Even in a highlights reel, you would get to see his entire contribution to the game!;)

Pro. F

TheDoc wrote: »

Seems to be a noticeable pattern emerging in the last two games, too similar for me to say it's just in game development.

We touched on it briefly last week, when I wasn't sure if Fellaini pulling out left onto Walker was in game decision making, or pre-planned. I'm convinced it's pre-planned now.

Going forward, we seem to be developing triangle on the wings, something many Van Gaal commentators indicate is one of his trademarks of his sides, especially his 4-3-3 formations. It happened again yesterday, so it looks like something that has been drilled and he feels it's time to use. It's not something that has even been remotely obvious throughout earlier in the season, so it must be something he feels is right now.

It's transpires most obviously on the left, with Fellaini being a focul point, Young moving parallel or past him, and Blind advancing to receive the ball. I notice when it goes to Blind, Young hugs the line, Fellaini then spins off. So this little triangle keeps forming.

On the right, the same occurs. Herrera is drifting over that side, forming neat passages with Valencia and Mata.

As this develops, as we can see both yesterday and against Spurs, these pockets develop through the middle. We don't really have anyone operating in the traditional 10 role. As the opposition are being pulled wide, pockets open in the middle. This is where we see these CB runs coming from, or Carrick even moving up in a more advanced position. I noted how many times yesterday Herrera( who beautifully lets the ball do all the work) opened him self up and was able to just seamlessly move through the centre unpressed, to either switch the play or play to Rooney centrally.

I think it brings some benefits defensively as well. We can see Herrera drifts to that right side, Fellaini to the left, and Carrick supports the side in possesion, or tracks runners through the middle.

I think the "comfort" PL move is to get the ball wide and gain territory out on the wings. So there should be a fullback, midfielder and wide midfielder able to deal with a winger and overlapping fullback.

I'd say on the flipside, with a team comfortable playing through the middle, we have a bank of three CM's who can tuck in centrally, with wide players providing protection to the fullbacks. This was also noticable against Spurs, and to a certain extent Liverpool yesterday, how these banks just formed defensively. I thought we gave Liverpool impetus to attack us which was incorrect, but felt I could see what was taking place there.

Might be TOTALLY of the boil here, and misreading the situation entirely, but just coupling together some comments from Van Gaal observers, I feel like I'm starting to see a development in what he wants to do, and how it is actually working out.

Somewhat unfortunate it has taken this much time to implement though, and I think he was too tunnel visioned on the 3-5-2 after the success it brought him in the World Cup. I think what we have seen the last few games is more what has set him up in his entire career.

Interesting stuff. I was aware of the idea as it had been talked about on here and with the Van Gaal commentators as you say. But I haven't been looking to spot that space being made through the middle during a game like you're talking about doing. Might help make more sense of what the team are trying to achieve with any particular passage play.

MagicMarker

Korat wrote: »

If we want to win titles and compete in the CL we'll need something better though.

What are you basing this on? Are you saying it's an impossibility to win the league if Fellaini was a regular starter? Because that to me just sounds stupid.

Rayne Wooney

The four four two app shows the number of passes between individual players, not sure why the full site doesn't

Cantona's Collars

Another classy act by a Liverpool player yesterday.:rolleyes:

Mario giving United fans the finger.

Maximus Alexander

keane2097 wrote: »

Can someone explain the joke to me? I didn't see MOTD!

GTFO! :eek:

Lucas Hood

zerks wrote: »

Another classy act by a Liverpool player yesterday.:rolleyes:

Mario giving United fans the finger.

Give over. I'm sure nothing was said to Mario.

Fans giving a bit of stick/abuse should be able to take a bit back.

niallo27

homerjay2005 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

Maximus Alexander

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Give over. I'm sure nothing was said to Mario.

Fans giving a bit of stick/abuse should be able to take a bit back.

Ah stop. If you'd a customer giving you a bit of lip at work do you think it'd be seen as acceptable for you to give them the finger?

If true, it's totally classless and unprofessional.

Ordinary man

niallo27 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

See if you and your kind could always speak of liverpool in the above terms, then others wouldn't take so much pleasure in wins like yesterday that proved the point

Cantona's Collars

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

GTFO! :eek:

That's what the ref said too.:pac:

niallo27

Ordinary man wrote: »

See if you and your kind could always speak of liverpool in the above terms, then others wouldn't take so much pleasure in wins like yesterday that proved the point

Your not answering the question though. Someone was saying yesterday he was a disgrace for not apologising to the utd player. What player has ever apologised to a player after a game.

Cantona's Collars

niallo27 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

There,you answered your own question.

intellectual dosser

niallo27 wrote: »

Your not answering the question though. Someone was saying yesterday he was a disgrace for not apologising to the utd player. What player has ever apologised to a player after a game.

This came to mind

niallo27

intellectual dosser wrote: »

This came to mind

Anything this century. What point are you trying to make.

Liam McPoyle

niallo27 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

Oh come off it Niall playing the poor mouth.

If it was Rooney that did what Gerrard did yesterday do you think ye wouldn't be lording it all over the place?

Of course ye would and you are as bad as anyone with it so quit being so bloody precious.

intellectual dosser

niallo27 wrote: »

Anything this century. What point are you trying to make.

You asked a question - I answered it.

TheDoc

keane2097 wrote: »

Anyone else find the criticism of Di Maria yesterday laughable? On for about half an hour, assists a goal, assists a penalty win and about a foot away from putting another goal on a plate for Rooney.

I think Young has been playing well, but the above is more in end product in 30/35 minutes than Young has managed in a whole season.

I stand by my critique of him. Gave the ball away loads from simple passes, and went on some unproductive dribbles that resulted in him being disposed.

Maybe there is some stats to indicate it isn't as severe as I think, but just felt he was plenty wasteful, assist aside.

I'm not in that crowd that are labeling him a flop, but I wouldn't support him blindly either. End product is all well and good, but when he was introduced it was surely to stretch the play on a tired and man down Liverpool, instead he frequently turned over possesion and provided Liverpool a platform to counter.

No major deal considering we won, but I'd imagine if he was brought on with us chasing the game, be mroe of a spotlight on him today. Might just be my initial reaction overshadowing fact. Young looked to be injured(as opposed to commentary who seemed to indicate it was tactical) as Young was limping for a bit. Hopefully just a knock and not muscular, as he has really taken to playing that left side with Fellaini and Blind.

niallo27

Business Cat wrote: »

Oh come off it Niall playing the poor mouth.

If it was Rooney that did what Gerrard did yesterday do you think ye wouldn't be lording it all over the place?

Of course ye would and you are as bad as anyone with it so quit being so bloody precious.

Gerrard is on a totally different level and you know it yourself. I'm not just talking about yesterday I'm taking about the last 10 years. What did he do to utd fans that have them so emotional about anything he does.

niallo27

TheDoc wrote: »

I stand by my critique of him. Gave the ball away loads from simple passes, and went on some unproductive dribbles that resulted in him being disposed.

Maybe there is some stats to indicate it isn't as severe as I think, but just felt he was plenty wasteful, assist aside.

I'm not in that crowd that are labeling him a flop, but I wouldn't support him blindly either. End product is all well and good, but when he was introduced it was surely to stretch the play on a tired and man down Liverpool, instead he frequently turned over possesion and provided Liverpool a platform to counter.

No major deal considering we won, but I'd imagine if he was brought on with us chasing the game, be mroe of a spotlight on him today. Might just be my initial reaction overshadowing fact. Young looked to be injured(as opposed to commentary who seemed to indicate it was tactical) as Young was limping for a bit. Hopefully just a knock and not muscular, as he has really taken to playing that left side with Fellaini and Blind.

Playing against ten men who were pressing for a goal that game should have been made for Di Maria but he kept giving the ball away. The pass for the second goal was decent but it was all about the finish.

TheDoc

Your Airbag wrote: »

I said yesterday after the match Fellaini was immense and deserved a lot of credit for his defensive cover. Mata was bound to grab the headlines but Fellaini was immense.

He basically said I"'m shutting down all air traffic here today" and turned Anfield into a NATO no fly zone.

Bangkok surely you must do a u-turn on your opinion of him now?

He's starting to show the kind of form, and play, that he deploys for Belgium and for Everton in his best years. He has an engine in him, and he was box to box yesterday. Along with his imperious aerial victories both with back to goal and defensively, he also had a good number of instances where he turned over possession and won the ball back. He is tenacious.

Again he was noticeable as being the forefront of pressing high. Rooney oddly wasn't doing it, but there was a few occasions Fellaini pressed down Can and you could see Rooney kinda going "**** best get in on this".

Worth watching when Fellaini presses, what the players behind him do. Few occasions in the first half Young or Fellaini pressed down on Can, and the rest of the team just got stepped up a few yards.

Coupled with Herrera, there appears to be a little bite in our midfield that wasn't really there last year. Can't get over how all action Herrera is, completely debunks the assumption you'd have looking at a Spanish midfielder that looks "diminutive".

He pulled out of the tackle on Gerard when the ball was sent away(stupid booking by the ref btw, really annoying part of refereeing creeping into the game, there was no contact, he clearly withdrew his leading leg) but there must have been a part of him that saw the crunch on Mata and he went " having you". I don't see him shirking from the physical side of the game.

bucketybuck

niallo27 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

I find it very interesting that certain Liverpool fans seem to believe that De Gea's reaction yesterday was a worse offence than Skyrtels stamp.

And by interesting I mean amusing.

Will I Amnt

niallo27 wrote: »

The obsession with a so called average player who plays for a mid table team who have won **** all is very odd. Why so much hate for the fella. He has been a great pro for liverpool.

Liverpool player does outrageously stupid and hilarious thing. United fan posts joke about it.

What exactly were you expecting? You seem to be on some sort of crusade to demand respect from United fans for poor old Slippy/Stampy G. We will keep laughing if he keeps doing silly things, it's just the way it goes.

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

Coupled with Herrera, there appears to be a little bite in our midfield that wasn't really there last year. Can't get over how all action Herrera is, completely debunks the assumption you'd have looking at a Spanish midfielder that looks "diminutive".

He pulled out of the tackle on Gerard when the ball was sent away(stupid booking by the ref btw, really annoying part of refereeing creeping into the game, there was no contact, he clearly withdrew his leading leg) but there must have been a part of him that saw the crunch on Mata and he went " having you". I don't see him shirking from the physical side of the game.

Felliani can have all the love for now but for me Hererra is the real star. He is like the Carrick of that forward midfield area ahead of the half way line, doing a lot of work that might not be flashy but really keeps the ball ticking over and gives a platform to the likes of Mata. We have been missing that for so long, damn sure the likes of Cleverley couldn't do it. I really think this guy will develop a lot more too, hopefully he remains a fixture instead of LVG hauling him off at half time if we look shaky.

niallo27

bucketybuck wrote: »

I find it very interesting that certain Liverpool fans seem to believe that De Gea's reaction yesterday was a worse offence than Skyrtels stamp.

And by interesting I mean amusing.

His reaction was funny though. He was holding his ribs until Smalling told him it was his ankle that should be sore.

duffman13

niallo27 wrote: »

Gerrard is on a totally different level and you know it yourself. I'm not just talking about yesterday I'm taking about the last 10 years. What did he do to utd fans that have them so emotional about anything he does.

He has been the king of the Kop for over ten years, when he makes huge errors it's going to lead to stick from all fans especially United ones. It's rivalry, Ferguson got stick for years but when you look back at it, the stick was because he was successful. Gerrard has been a leader for Liverpool and falls into the same category. He's a magnet for stick and so is Rooney.

No need to get your knickers in a bunch especially since some your own fans have been giving him worse stick. Criticism is part and parcel of football, players rise above it, so should fans!

TheDoc

Pro. F wrote: »

Interesting stuff. I was aware of the idea as it had been talked about on here and with the Van Gaal commentators as you say. But I haven't been looking to spot that space being made through the middle during a game like you're talking about doing. Might help make more sense of what the team are trying to achieve with any particular passage play.

It'll be typical now next game it won't happen or something

Just found it noticable, maybe just how the game developed last two matches but looks to frequent.

Super lazy, but below is the general jist. You can probably work out where the lines of passing goes, pretty much provides a world of options. It also frees up some space to allow Rooney drop, players move across that space and all that good stuff.

Obviously the flow of the game dictates what specifically occurs, but there has been a noticable gap between Fellaini and Her during buildup. When the play starts advancing into the final third, you will see the gap close up dramatically.

Vic Vinegar

niallo27 wrote: »

His reaction was funny though. He was holding his ribs until Smalling told him it was his ankle that should be sore.

Cool story.