Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Liam McPoyle

bucketybuck wrote: »

That challenge was clumsy as ****, he was late into it and was not really in control of anything. There is challenging for a header and then there is closing your eyes and jumping forward into the ball like a sunday league player. He was very lucky to get away with it.

He was also lucky to get away with the time he cleaned somebody out of it near the left touchline, and the worry is that Jones is still doing these braindead things in football matches and you can't afford that at the top level.

I thought the shoulder barge on Lallana was a cert for a card.

There may not have been anything malicious in it but it was utterly reckless, nearly as bad as intentionally milling someone.

The_Kew_Tour

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Some of the posts are just amazing and absolute nonsense.

1. De Gea wanted to injure Skrtel if he missed the ball, so his leg was way forward than his body.
2. Rooney deserved red for incident with Mignloet
3. We just played hoof ball to Fellaini when in the first half they were chasing shadows.
4. We got undeserved penalty which halted their momentum.
5. Jones deserved red card.

Also on the clash with Lallana, is it card worthy offense to challenge header?didn't Jones headed the ball and clashed with Lallana? I maybe wrong but when I saw the first replay it looked like Jones headed the ball and took out Lallana.

Tbf I gave 5 minute glance over Liverpool thread last night and was surprised how many were very honest and had no complaints. Fair play them.

Just the usual 2-3 lads who I just chuckle at now. Goes for all fans I guess.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Few paper storys
Liverpool have contacted Monaco about taking Radamel Falcao, currently on a season-long loan with Manchester United, on a new loan deal from the summer, according to sources at the French club. Chelsea are also interested in signing the Colombia striker on loan.


Manchester United are keeping tabs on Lazio's Brazilian striker Felipe Anderson.


Manchester United will offer new deals to Ashley Young, Phil Jones and Chris Smalling.


Manchester United have finally been given the go-ahead to install Mats Hummels as their defensive linchpin at the end of the season.

noodler

Giggsy11 wrote: »

2. Rooney deserved red for incident with Mignloet

4. We got undeserved penalty which halted their momentum.
5. Jones deserved red card.

As someone who thought Rooney stretched out his foot to deliberately catch Mignolet, I must ask what your take on it was?

I also thought the peno was a shoulder and that the contact with the legs was only because the attacking player was falling over after the shoulder contact.

Jones, yellow probably right for the Henderson challenge. Would have to give him the benefit of the doubt there as both players were moving at such a speed.

Maximus Alexander

bucketybuck wrote: »

That challenge was clumsy as ****, he was late into it and was not really in control of anything. There is challenging for a header and then there is closing your eyes and jumping forward into the ball like a sunday league player. He was very lucky to get away with it.

He was also lucky to get away with the time he cleaned somebody out of it near the left touchline, and the worry is that Jones is still doing these braindead things in football matches and you can't afford that at the top level.

Agree with this. I haven't watched 40 slow motion replays of it, but happening live it looked like he belted Lallana in the face before contacting the ball, if he got the ball at all. He was very lucky to get away with that.

Lord TSC

Headshot wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3008471/Mats-Hummels-ready-leave-Borussia-Dortmund-slap-36m-price-tag-Manchester-United-target.html

Mats Hummels strongly linked again.

Few places running the story at the same time. Usually sign of a briefing.

Kerrydude1981

SAF with a sly walk by dig at Carrick

http://www.joe.ie/sport/video-alex-ferguson-gives-michael-carrick-a-sly-nudge-in-the-back-during-post-match-interview-at-anfield/489364

MagicIRL

I still think one of LvG's finest acts was getting so much money for Dizzy Welbz and TC23.

dor843088

Phil Jones went in hard and fair into challenges . Exactly what I love to see from a utd player in a big game. Fair play to the lad hes a trooper and gives it everything for the shirt cant ask anymore.

Pro. F

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Also on the clash with Lallana, is it card worthy offense to challenge header?didn't Jones headed the ball and clashed with Lallana? I maybe wrong but when I saw the first replay it looked like Jones headed the ball and took out Lallana.

He could have gotten a yellow for recklessness because he had so little chance of getting the ball, but luckily he got away with it. I was delighted with the challenge, he shook up Lallana and put down a marker to the rest of the Liverpool players.

LuckyLloyd

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I thought their goal was deflected yesterday but apparently it wasn't, how was Dave beaten at his near post

Even if it wasn't deflected, I'm sure he's earned a couple of mistakes this year given the form he's been in. I actually think it's a shame that he won't be seriously in the running for PFA player of the year on the basis that he's a goalkeeper. It's hard to think of an individual who's had a bigger single impact on their team all year tbh.

DrPhilG

I know it's the results against the smaller teams that often make the difference in title races, but this is a pretty shocking difference in the performances against the "big teams". I know Everton could probably get replaced by Southampton for this season but even without the Everton scores it's a huge difference.

2013/14 under Moyes
1 point against Chelsea (1-3 agg)
0 points against City (1-7 agg)
4 points against Arsenal (1-0 agg)
0 points against Liverpool (0-4 agg)
0 points against Everton (0-3 agg)
1 point against Spurs (3-4 agg)

6 points from 36, -15GD


2013/14 under LVG
1 point against Chelsea (1-1 agg, 1 to play)
0 points against City (0-1 agg, 1 to play)
3 points against Arsenal (2-1 agg, 1 to play)
6 points against Liverpool (5-1 agg)
3 points against Everton (2-1 agg, 1 to play)
4 points against Spurs (3-0 agg)

17 points from 24, +8GD

Pro. F

MagicIRL wrote: »

I still think one of LvG's finest acts was getting so much money for Dizzy Welbz and TC23.

Cleverley would have been a better back-up for Herrera's current role than Carrick/Blind.

Welbeck would have been a lot more useful in those narrow, two CF formations that LVG was trying all season than Falcao and RVP were. Welbeck also would have been suited to doing a similar job to what Fellaini is doing now, that hard working, half striker, half midfielder who holds up and links up the play but doesn't need to score a lot.

Welbeck's goals have also won Arsenal 7 points this season and knocked us out of the cup.

bangkok

love Michael Carrick, absolutely fantastic performance Sunday. Without a shadow of doubt the most underrated player in England.

Will I Amnt

dor843088 wrote: »

Phil Jones went in hard and fair into challenges . Exactly what I love to see from a utd player in a big game. Fair play to the lad hes a trooper and gives it everything for the shirt cant ask anymore.

He's a big lummox to be honest. A danger to himself and others, not an ounce of malice in him though. I'd like to see him get it together as he seems to be a good lad but I'm not very confident in that happening.

Unearthly

New rules coming in soon in regards to home grown players. 12 of the 25 need to be home grown. Top of my head.

Jones
Smalling
Young
Carrick
Rooney
Evans
Shaw
Wilson
McNair
Blackett
Powell

With question marks over some of those players being good enough, and Carrick not getting any younger, will it change our transfer targets this summer?

SlickRic

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The best one is "He's a luxury player"
Yeah, sure who the hell needs goals and assists like???

You must always remember, too many people take Mourinho's comments and opinions as gospel.

Luxury player is such a stupid term anyway. You could argue Ronaldo is a 'luxury player' as all he does is score.

it's stupid.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Cleverley would have been a better back-up for Herrera's current role than Carrick/Blind.

Welbeck would have been a lot more useful in those narrow, two CF formations that LVG was trying all season than Falcao and RVP were. Welbeck also would have been suited to doing a similar job to what Fellaini is doing now, that hard working, half striker, half midfielder who holds up and links up the play but doesn't need to score a lot.

Welbeck's goals have also won Arsenal 7 points this season and knocked us out of the cup.

No he wouldn't. Carrick and Blind can pass the ball forward and are more progressive. TC only has pace on them but in LVG's possession system, especially what we have seen in the last two matches, it requires quick, fluid and incisive passing. Cleverly would be lost in that system when not needing to defend and he was never even good at that.

He has a total of zero assists for Villa after 27 apps where as the three you mention have all assisted. Villa may not even be his level. Talking about him as a UTD player is pure delusion.

Mitch Connor

Unearthly wrote: »

New rules coming in soon in regards to home grown players. 12 of the 25 need to be home grown. Top of my head.

Jones
Smalling
Young
Carrick
Rooney
Evans
Shaw
Wilson
McNair
Blackett
Powell

With question marks over some of those players being good enough, and Carrick not getting any younger, will it change our transfer targets this summer?

Clyne reported to one of our top targets. Interest could be upped in Ings as a backup striker.

Not sure what other english players we could/would be going for. Kane will be spoken about but I don't think we will get him. Milner on a free would be a very good signing, but its another I have no expectation of us getting, or even going for.

I would say Johnstone will be kept as a backup keeper as well.

Ross Barkey will become an even bigger target for the top sides now too.

MagicIRL

It saddens me that the El Classico thread is still open and the glorious Liverpool v United thread was shut in under 24 hrs.

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Clyne reported to one of our top targets. Interest could be upped in Ings as a backup striker.

Not sure what other english players we could/would be going for. Kane will be spoken about but I don't think we will get him. Milner on a free would be a very good signing, but its another I have no expectation of us getting, or even going for.

I would say Johnstone will be kept as a backup keeper as well.

Ross Barkey will become an even bigger target for the top sides now too.

Is Ross Barkley really that good? English player hype is the norm

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

No he wouldn't. Carrick and Blind can pass the ball forward and are more progressive. TC only has pace on them but in LVG's possession system, especially what we have seen in the last two matches, it requires quick, fluid and incisive passing. Cleverly would be lost in that system when not needing to defend and he was never even good at that.

He has a total of zero assists for Villa after 27 apps where as the three you mention have all assisted. Villa may not even be his level. Talking about him as a UTD player is pure delusion.

Assists are a worthless way of measuring central midfielders. Cleverley passes the ball forward from tight situations much better than Carrick and Blind, which is what is required of the role Herrera is playing.

Mitch Connor

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Is Ross Barkley really that good? English player hype is the norm

Certainly has potential - but not the 50millon player that being hyped in the last 12 months or so.

MagicIRL

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Certainly has potential - but not the 50millon player that being hyped in the last 12 months or so.

That's the difference when you go from playing for a mid-table club like Everton to a potential relegation candidate in Wigan.

jaykay74

MagicIRL wrote: »

I still think one of LvG's finest acts was getting so much money for Dizzy Welbz and TC23.

Did we get something for Cleverley ? I thought he went on loan and he is out of contract at the end of the season. Maybe we got a loan fee?

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Assists are a worthless way of measuring central midfielders. Cleverley passes the ball forward from tight situations much better than Carrick and Blind, which is what is required of the role Herrera is playing.

No he doesn't and never has.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

No he doesn't and never has.

Pro. F has a MAJOR hard-on for Cleverley.

Will I Amnt

MagicIRL wrote: »

It saddens me that the El Classico thread is still open and the glorious Liverpool v United thread was shut in under 24 hrs.

We were told it would only be open that morning until El Classico. It just descends into cards, bans and crying about referee/chanting/all the stuff United got away with. Bit like this thread and the Liverpool thread come to think of it :pac:

Mars Bar

Pro. F wrote: »

Assists are a worthless way of measuring central midfielders. Cleverley passes the ball forward from tight situations much better than Carrick and Blind, which is what is required of the role Herrera is playing.

Do you truly believe that?

Nalz

Mars Bar wrote: »

Do you truly believe that?

The scary thing is I think he does!

Not being smart to Pro F but has Cleverly played well for villa recently?
I haven't watched much of Villa since he signed

Giggsy11

noodler wrote: »

As someone who thought Rooney stretched out his foot to deliberately catch Mignolet, I must ask what your take on it was?

I also thought the peno was a shoulder and that the contact with the legs was only because the attacking player was falling over after the shoulder contact.

Jones, yellow probably right for the Henderson challenge. Would have to give him the benefit of the doubt there as both players were moving at such a speed.

Rooney's was a nothing incident and rightly there are no noises made in the media about that.

How is penalty shoulder to shoulder when Can fouled Blind from behind? Also Can didn't even appeal against the decision. It was so clear cut penalty.

Like few said only Jones one is disputable, my opinion on the clash with Lallana was different but I can see why few think it was yellow worthy incident.

Giggsy11

Pro. F wrote: »

Cleverley would have been a better back-up for Herrera's current role than Carrick/Blind.

Welbeck would have been a lot more useful in those narrow, two CF formations that LVG was trying all season than Falcao and RVP were. Welbeck also would have been suited to doing a similar job to what Fellaini is doing now, that hard working, half striker, half midfielder who holds up and links up the play but doesn't need to score a lot.

Welbeck's goals have also won Arsenal 7 points this season and knocked us out of the cup.

There is not a single thing common between Cleverley and Herrera. Cleverley just recycles possession and passes without any intent, which is completely different from Herrera.

I think Andreas might be a better back up in the near future (he lacks experience though) but at the current moment we don't have any.

Giggsy11

Apparently Depay to Manutd is almost done, some PSV journo tweeted it.

thijsslegers @thijsslegers

Interesse in #psv-spelers Memphis (#ManchesterUnited) en Willems (#RealMadrid en #ManchesterCity) neemt serieuze vormen aan.

Nalz

LVG 3 wins over Rodgers I see a lot

What is the third victory? Or am I missing something obvious?

Your Airbag

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Not being smart to Pro F but has Cleverly played well for villa recently?
I haven't watched much of Villa since he signed

The fans jeered him when he was subbed on against Chelsea. They've been largely unimpressed with him and he hasn't done anything of note yet. They have a similar impression of him that UTD fans had, side to side or backwards passing player.

He struggled to win over the fans so much so that Lambert had to come out and deny to them he is contractually obliged to play Cleverly.

He has put in some better performances since Sherwood took over though.

Unearthly

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Apparently Depay to Manutd is almost done, some PSV journo tweeted it.

thijsslegers @thijsslegers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK5YGWS5H84

bren2001

Trilla wrote: »

LVG 3 wins over Rodgers I see a lot

What is the third victory? Or am I missing something obvious?

International Champions Cup. Stupid stat.

Maximus Alexander

Trilla wrote: »

LVG 3 wins over Rodgers I see a lot

What is the third victory? Or am I missing something obvious?

LvG counts preseason.

Backstreet Moyes

If we break the bank for a midfielder i hope it is Schneiderlen.

bangkok

MagicIRL wrote: »

It saddens me that the El Classico thread is still open and the glorious Liverpool v United thread was shut in under 24 hrs.

it saddens me that the El Classico itself turned into a farce yet again. A total soap opera, diving, play acting, horrible to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwNfhYPm5Qs

Mascherano in this clip summed up the classico for me and he should really be banned after that but wont be

TheDoc

Unearthly wrote: »

New rules coming in soon in regards to home grown players. 12 of the 25 need to be home grown. Top of my head.

Jones
Smalling
Young
Carrick
Rooney
Evans
Shaw
Wilson
McNair
Blackett
Powell

With question marks over some of those players being good enough, and Carrick not getting any younger, will it change our transfer targets this summer?

I wouldn't take that announcement in stone. It's Dykes plan, a lot has to happen before it goes into place, if it even does.

Immediate reactions from some areas was "Yeah, we will hand over competitiveness to give a helping hand to English players".

English players simply arn't good enough to get into their own clubs, simple as. If more of them broadened their horizons and went onto foreign academies and leagues they'd have more options and better development instead of sitting in under 21 squads in England.

Like anyone that thinks City's new training complex is for English players, is absoluely away with the fairies (They are going to stock up on top European talent, take a pick of the good ones and turn massive profit on the ones they don't want)

Pro. F

Mars Bar wrote: »

Do you truly believe that?

Yes to both points in my post.

Central midfielders tend to not play the final pass before a goal nearly as much as strikers, 10s and wingers do. There have been loads of examples of CMs having great seasons in terms of passing without a lot of assists to show for it.

Carrick and Blind both have unreliable first touches so they struggle to receive and turn on the ball in tight spots. That's why they do most of their work sitting deeper where there's space for them to pick their passes. Carrick is a good passer when he has that space.

Cleverley has a much better first touch than those two lads. That's why he is able to receive the ball and turn on it further up the pitch, where things are more crowded. He is also an accurate passer.

The issue with Cleverley last season was his extreme lack of incisiveness. He wouldn't take on a risky pass and it got worse as the season went on. That was a team wide issue and since the manager was giving explicit instructions to the team to go out and make x number of passes (where x is a high number), not spending enough time on attacking practice in training and generally installing a get it wide and cross it hopelessness, then it's obvious what the root cause of that was. Cleverley's confidence also took a battering from the ridiculous stick he got from the fans, but in time, with the right management, he would almost certainly be able to return to being more adventurous with his passing.

So Cleverley has the ability, the issue is his confidence. Carrick and Blind do not have the ability.

Now let me ask you a question, do you honestly believe that Carrick and Blind have the first touch required to receive a pass when tightly marked, turn on it and pass it on?

intellectual dosser

RE: Homegrown Rules:

Its going to significantly inflate the price of English players.

I think a lot more information and confirmation has to be made so we can understand what to expect, but I think there is a link here to the TV rights deal signed a few weeks ago. The money in English football is astonishing, and as more and more money is pumped into English clubs more and more foreign players will be bought in and push homegrown talent aside.

I agree that some action needs to be taken if English football as a whole is to be protected.

Headshot

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Apparently Depay to Manutd is almost done, some PSV journo tweeted it.

thijsslegers @thijsslegers

Not sure where he would fit into the team with Di Maria always playing on the left even when he was at R.Madrid.

Liam O

intellectual dosser wrote: »

RE: Homegrown Rules:

Its going to significantly inflate the price of English players.

I think a lot more information and confirmation has to be made so we can understand what to expect, but I think there is a link here to the TV rights deal signed a few weeks ago. The money in English football is astonishing, and as more and more money is pumped into English clubs more and more foreign players will be bought in and push homegrown talent aside.

I agree that some action needs to be taken if English football as a whole is to be protected.

why should anyone not from there care about English football? I just want the best PL there can be and this seems counterproductive.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Pro. F has a MAJOR hard-on for Cleverley.

To be honest Cleverly got a rough ride. I made some posts about make or break season for him and Anderson, and both failed miserably.

But Cleverly was made a bit of a scapegoat last year, coupled with serious dips in form by the squad and big names bottling it. That he was highlighted as a point of frustration was obscure.

He's a player who's confidence is on the floor. One minute you have Ferguson thrusting you into games against Real Madrid, starting you week in week out in the league, and the next your being shifted position and the finger being pointed at you.

There is a good footballer in Cleverly. If I'm not mistaken, a transfer didn't go through and he is still on loan. Who knows, maybe it was decided to send him off for a season and just escape the spotlight, get his game back in order.

Villa were hardly a side to do that though, they are poison. But already under Sherwood he has had some good games and decent flashes, being much more dynamic and forward thinking.

I don't remember the name, but Van Gaal had someone in his Dutch squad at the world cup who was shockingly like Cleverly. Name totally escapes me.

While it looks massively unlikely that Cleverly will be kept, there is still a slim chance. Van Gaal has shown this year with numerous existing United players, that he has been able to raise their form and standard.

Do truely believe Cleverly is a decent football, and it will eventually come out. Maybe with a top coach like Van Gaal, there might be a future there. (I think it's unlikely, but you never know. Look what has happened with Ashley Young this season, and Valencia to a lesser extent)

intellectual dosser

Liam O wrote: »

why should anyone not from there care about English football? I just want the best PL there can be and this seems counterproductive.

The FA has responsibilities beyond the Premier League - and I think we have to respect that.

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

Not sure where he would fit into the team with Di Maria always playing on the left even when he was at R.Madrid.

He would take up the role Young is currently occupying and play on the left, assuming Van Gaal is moving towards his 4-3-3 which he has done everywhere.

Di Maria for Madrid operated in a 4-3-3, playing on the left side of the midfield three.

Fellaini is playing exceptional at the moment, but Van Gaal might not see that as his longterm plan, especially for European football. Assuming Di Maria recaptures form(confident he will) and Depay comes in (confident he will) then Young will most likely become a squad player(tipping near 30 isn't he?) and Fellaini will probably also have a squad role.

But assuming CL football is back, no harm having some depth and quality to properly handle all fronts.

While Chelsea were blistering first half of the season, been evident that Mourinhos poor squad management has hurt them in the latter half of the season. Wenger on the other hand, for all the grief he gets, has always had good squad management, and why Arsenal have always been able to surge to top 4 finishes in the second half of the season.

With their likely to be a few exits in the summer, I wouldn't worry too much about people dropping totally out of the frame.

Maximus Alexander

Liam O wrote: »

why should anyone not from there care about English football? I just want the best PL there can be and this seems counterproductive.

Agreed. I may have invested myself in United over the last 20 or so years, but that doesn't mean I give a crap about the English national team, or English footballers in general. I want to be watching the best possible players playing both for and against United each week and this will only have a negative effect on that.