Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Hococop

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I think all of the guys you've mentioned have more in common with Messi than they do Ronaldo. There is something so self conscious, almost insecure about Ronaldo that i've never seen in the other guys you've mentioned.

The best example i can think of is the penalty shoot out in the Euro's when rather than take the first penalty, Ronaldo chose to wait, presumably so he could take the winning penalty and hog the limelight. WTF was that? All the guys mentioned would be more concerned with getting the job done knowing they will get plenty of glory on account of them being amazing at what they do.

The last thing we need is to spunk 80 million on an increasingly stroppy diva in decline.

I remember he too the first penalty for RM a few months before that in the sf against Bayern and missed, that might have something to do with his decision

Liam O

Messi's not egotistical at all.

Whatsisname

Messi never dives, injures anybody intentionally or throws a strop on the pitch and even tries to hurt fans

(Video name is a bit much but don't shoot the messenger)

Too Tough To Die

I don't think we need to worry about Messi's ego. I have a feeling we will not be signing him, ever.

Shanotheslayer

Whatsisname wrote: »

Messi never dives, injures anybody intentionally or throws a strop on the pitch and even tries to hurt fans

(Video name is a bit much but don't shoot the messenger)

I say the person who made that has an IQ the same as his age.

Whatsisname

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I say the person who made that has an IQ the same as his age.

Captions and video name is stupid alright but the rest remains the same.

Pro. F

Whatsisname wrote: »

The idea that Messi is the perfect footballer is laughable, the man has dived all his career, is a tax fraud and theres been numerous reports he's an egomaniac and difficult to work with, yet nobody ever mentions any of it and he's seen as some media darling. Imagine if Ronaldo was a tax fraud, the world would be in uproar. Only think Ronaldo gets so much stick is cause of his appearance compared to Messi's. (I know it sounds stupid but its true imo.)

Who said Messi was the perfect footballer?

Btw, Messi is a much better passer and creator, much better at holding the ball up and helping his team keep possession when going for goal isn't on and works harder defensively than Ronaldo. He also dives (like most players do, but less than many attacking players), apparently has a big influence on his club, has a big ego and dodges tax. All in all, given both their strengths and weaknesses, I think Messi is a much better player and would help a club win more than Ronaldo.

Most importantly, can you really not see that Messi's team play and self control on the pitch is miles better than Ronaldo's? It's hardly surprising that he might be viewed better considering how he behaves on the pitch.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Who said Messi was the perfect footballer?

Btw, Messi is a much better passer and creator, much better at holding the ball up and helping his team keep possession when going for goal isn't on and works harder defensively than Ronaldo. He also dives (like most players do, but less than many attacking players), apparently has a big influence on his club, has a big ego and dodges tax. All in all, given both their strengths and weaknesses, I think Messi is a much better player and would help a club win more than Ronaldo.

Most importantly, can you really not see that Messi's team play and self control on the pitch is miles better than Ronaldo's? It's hardly surprising that he might be viewed better considering how he behaves on the pitch.

messi better defensively? how many times do you see messi back clearing corners like ronaldo does on a regular basis? never

for the last 2 years ronaldo has def been the standout player of both.

it also helps that messi had xavi and iniesta in that barca side for as long as he did.

i always ask, if you put ronaldo in the leeds team and messi in the millwall team for a one off game, who would have the more influence and 9 times out of the 10 the answer is always the same.....Ronaldo.

MythicalMadMan

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

I think all of the guys you've mentioned have more in common with Messi than they do Ronaldo. There is something so self conscious, almost insecure about Ronaldo that i've never seen in the other guys you've mentioned.

The best example i can think of is the penalty shoot out in the Euro's when rather than take the first penalty, Ronaldo chose to wait, presumably so he could take the winning penalty and hog the limelight. WTF was that? All the guys mentioned would be more concerned with getting the job done knowing they will get plenty of glory on account of them being amazing at what they do.

The last thing we need is to spunk 80 million on an increasingly stroppy diva in decline.

Statistically you want your best penalty taker going last of course that doesnt always work out if others brick it but if they were going to brick it wouldnt have mattered if he went first or last anyways

bangkok

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/the-wes-hoolahan-story-a-street-player-who-never-lost-sight-of-his-dream-31102340.html

wes hoolahan....street footballer

Ed The Equalizer

Pro. F wrote: »

Yeah, and that's weird to me. Fair enough to say that he's so good he's more than worth putting up with the bad aspects of his attitude, but to completely deny that the selfishness is a mark against I don't get.

Not sure if mentioned already but when the rumour of him going to City came out, I could feel how much I'd hate him. Like you say, I've put up with the bad aspects because he's so good, and because of his love of United, but if he went to them there'd be no remaining redeeming features and I'd think he was an all round p***k.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

messi better defensively? how many times do you see messi back clearing corners like ronaldo does on a regular basis? never

What a stupid argument. Defensive corners are only one part of defending.

bangkok wrote: »

for the last 2 years ronaldo has def been the standout player of both.

it also helps that messi had xavi and iniesta in that barca side for as long as he did.

i always ask, if you put ronaldo in the leeds team and messi in the millwall team for a one off game, who would have the more influence and 9 times out of the 10 the answer is always the same.....Ronaldo.

For the past two years Messi has definitely been the standout of the two. See, I can do it too.

Messi has benefitted from being in the better team most of the time, it's true. But it's still possible to judge the two players objectively.

You might always ask yourself some pointless question and then agree with the response that you give, but that doesn't make your argument at all convincing.

brinty

Slow day of all the talk is messi v Ronaldo neither of whom play for us
Any United news folks

Too Tough To Die

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Statistically you want your best penalty taker going last of course that doesnt always work out if others brick it but if they were going to brick it wouldnt have mattered if he went first or last anyways

Statistically you want your best penalty taker going last? Sorry, i don't understand. There's a statistic for that?

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

What a stupid argument. Defensive corners are only one part of defending.



For the past two years Messi has definitely been the standout of the two. See, I can do it too.

Messi has benefitted from being in the better team most of the time, it's true. But it's still possible to judge the two players objectively.

You might always ask yourself some pointless question and then agree with the response that you give, but that doesn't make your argument at all convincing.

widely recognized that ronaldo has been the better, hence him winning the last 2 ballon dors

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/the-wes-hoolahan-story-a-street-player-who-never-lost-sight-of-his-dream-31102340.html

wes hoolahan....street footballer

The fact that a journalist also used a meaningless term, doesn't make it any less meaningless. Guys like Dion Fanning may seem like impossibly intelligent, flawless critics of football and language from where you're looking, but they are fallible.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

The fact that a journalist also used a meaningless term, doesn't make it any less meaningless. Guys like Dion Fanning may seem like impossibly intelligent, flawless critics of football and language from where you're looking, but they are fallible.

but it does having meaning and used quiet a lot

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

widely recognized that ronaldo has been the better, hence him winning the last 2 ballon dors

Judging players by Ballon d'Ors and press recognition is a very bad idea.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

but it does having meaning and used quiet a lot

What does it mean? I didn't see any explanation in the article.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Judging players by Ballon d'Ors and press recognition is a very bad idea.

im judging by what i seen, it was quiet obvious who was the better of the 2 over the last 2 seasons. Also for ronaldo to actually get the amount of praise he got over messi just goes to show how much better he was than him

MythicalMadMan

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Statistically you want your best penalty taker going last? Sorry, i don't understand. There's a statistic for that?

Sorry dude I cant find the article I read it onn before but ya thats what my memory is telling me.

I did find this midly interestinhg stats on world cup shoot outs.

PENALTY SHOOT-OUTS DOWN THE YEARS

1982 - West Germany v France 3-3 (5-4)
1986 - France v Brazil 1-1 (4-3)
West Germany v Mexico 0-0 (4-1)
Belgium v Spain 1-1 (5-4)
1990 - Rep. of Ireland v Romania 0-0 (5-4)
Argentina v Yugoslavia 0-0 (3-2)
Argentina v Italy 1-1 (4-3)
West Germany v England 1-1 (4-3)
1994 - Bulgaria v Mexico 1-1 (3-1)
Sweden v Romania 2-2 (5-4)
Brazil v Italy 0-0 (3-2)
1998 - Argentina v England 2-2 (4-3)
France v Italy 0-0 (4-3)
Brazil v Netherlands 1-1 (4-2)
2002 - Spain v Rep. of Ireland 1-1 (3-2)
South Korea v Spain 0-0 (5-3)
2006 - Ukraine v Switzerland 0-0 (3-0)
Germany v Argentina 1-1 (4-2)
Portugal v England 0-0 (3-1)
Italy v France 1-1 (5-3)
2010 - Paraguay v Japan 0-0 (5-3)
Uruguay v Ghana 1-1 (4-2)
2014 - Brazil v Chile 1-1 (3-2)
Costa Rica v Greece 1-1 (4-3)
Netherlands v Costa Rica 0-0 (4-3)
Argentina v Netherlands 0-0 (4-2)


PENALTY SHOOT-OUT TABLE

W L GOALS
Germany (West) 4 0 17-10
Argentina 4 1 17-14
Brazil 3 1 13-10
France 2 2 15-16
Ukraine 1 0 3- 0
Paraguay 1 0 5- 3
South Korea 1 0 5- 3
Uruguay 1 0 4- 2
Bulgaria 1 0 3- 1
Portugal 1 0 3- 1
Belgium 1 0 5- 4
Sweden 1 0 5- 4
Costa Rica 1 1 8- 7
Rep. of Ireland 1 1 7- 7
Spain 1 2 10-12
Netherlands 1 2 8-11
Italy 1 3 13-14
Chile 0 1 2- 3
Yugoslavia 0 1 2- 3
Greece 0 1 3- 5
Japan 0 1 3- 5
Ghana 0 1 2- 4
Switzerland 0 1 0- 3
Romania 0 2 8-10
Mexico 0 2 2- 7
England 0 3 7-11



SHOOT-OUT SUCCESS RATE

Attempts Goals
Belgium 5 5 100.0%
Paraguay 5 5 100.0%
South Korea 5 5 100.0%
Germany (West) 18 17 94.4%
Sweden 6 5 83.3%
Costa Rica 10 8 80.0%
Uruguay 5 4 80.0%
Argentina 22 17 77.3%
France 20 15 75.0%
Bulgaria 4 3 75.0%
Greece 4 3 75.0%
Japan 4 3 75.0%
Ukraine 4 3 75.0%
Romania 11 8 72.7%
Brazil 18 13 72.2%
Spain 14 10 71.4%
Rep. of Ireland 10 7 70.0%
Netherlands 12 8 66.7%
Italy 20 13 65.0%
Portugal 5 3 60.0%
England 14 7 50.0%
Ghana 4 2 50.0%
Chile 5 2 40.0%
Yugoslavia 5 2 40.0%
Mexico 7 2 28.6%
Switzerland 3 0 0.0%

TOTAL 240 170 70.8%

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/the-wes-hoolahan-story-a-street-player-who-never-lost-sight-of-his-dream-31102340.html

wes hoolahan....street footballer

Have to give it up to you bangkok, you're committed.

Too Tough To Die

bangkok wrote: »

im judging by what i seen, it was quiet obvious who was the better of the 2 over the last 2 seasons. Also for ronaldo to actually get the amount of praise he got over messi just goes to show how much better he was than him

Ronaldo at his capacity and Messi off the boil and it was still tight. Ronaldo has never performed close to the level of Messi in 2015.

bangkok

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Ronaldo at his capacity and Messi off the boil and it was still tight. Ronaldo has never performed close to the level of Messi in 2015.

yea, good story.

you are the same guy that wouldnt have ronaldo in his top 3 forwards in the world right now....

RobertKK

Hummels looks highly likely to be playing for United next season.


https://twitter.com/sport_witness/status/582227276227604481

Trying to keep everyone happy with those comments.

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

Hummels looks highly likely to be playing for United next season.

I've never been convinced about Hummels, I don't think he is worth the inevitable huge transfer fee. There is a paucity of good centre backs these days, but still I don't think Hummels is the answer for us.

Rayne Wooney

Hummels will be a fantastic signing if it happens, exactly what we need

Too Tough To Die

bangkok wrote: »

yea, good story.

you are the same guy that wouldnt have ronaldo in his top 3 forwards in the world right now....

On the premise that the world 11 is playing a one off match against a team of highly skilled extraterrestrials with the future of mankind at stake. I would absolutely not have him anywhere near my team.

If it's a silly exhibition match against Zidane and friends, then sure, i'd have him in there.

RobertKK

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hummels will be a fantastic signing if it happens, exactly what we need

Agree.
With current central defenders he would partner Smalling.
Hummels would bring experience of playing in high profile games like finals of CL and World Cup. A calmness to defense and excellent distributor of the ball.

billyhead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Hummels will be a fantastic signing if it happens, exactly what we need

I am not 100% convinced on Hummels. I think he could be one of those fancy dan stylish defenders who likes to play the ball out of defence himself and can then get caught out. We really need a hard hitting no nonsense leader in that position ala Vidic or Godin who like to put their head in harms way

thelad95

billyhead wrote: »

I am not 100% convinced on Hummels. I think he could be one of those fancy dan stylish defenders who likes to play the ball out of defence himself and can then get caught out. We really need a hard hitting no nonsense leader in that position ala Vidic or Godin who like to put their head in harms way

Godin and Vidic are walking red cards. We already have Phil Jones for that.

TheDoc

Used to always chuckle during transfer windows when people would mention McCarthy as someone we should sign

He's such a bottler...hiding on the pitch not wanting to get involved.

Hococop

TheDoc wrote: »

Used to always chuckle during transfer windows when people would mention McCarthy as someone we should sign

He's such a bottler...hiding on the pitch not wanting to get involved.

So another cleverly

Vic Vinegar

thelad95 wrote: »

Godin and Vidic are walking red cards. We already have Phil Jones for that.

Has Jones even been sent off for United? I'm struggling to think of even once when that has happened, it renders your point wholly ridiculous.

Cantona's Collars

Chicharito's cracker for Mexico.

Adamocovic

zerks wrote: »

Chicharito's cracker for Mexico.

I miss him and Danny

Adamocovic

Vic Vinegar wrote: »

Has Jones even been sent off for United? I'm struggling to think of even once when that has happened, it renders your point wholly ridiculous.

I am actually struggling to remember him ever being sent off...I'm afraid if we keep digging we might stumble onto something we dont want to

duffman13

thelad95 wrote: »

Godin and Vidic are walking red cards. We already have Phil Jones for that.

What makes you think Godin is a walking red card, committed and hard but wouldn't call him stupid or reckless enough to be a walking red card. I like him when I've seen him play! I have seen him play maybe 10 or 15 games over the last two seasons!

Edit: Just Googled his stats, he has been sent off three times in about 300 appearances over the last four seasons. Doesn't strike me as too bad!

Whatsisname

Am I right in saying Hernandez has never scored a goal outside the box for us? every goal he scores this season seems to be outside it, his first 2 for Madrid were screamers too

bangkok

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

On the premise that the world 11 is playing a one off match against a team of highly skilled extraterrestrials with the future of mankind at stake. I would absolutely not have him anywhere near my team.

If it's a silly exhibition match against Zidane and friends, then sure, i'd have him in there.

Yea, one of the greatest players ever to play the game and you wouldn't have him near the team......ok so :eek:

Nalz

Whatsisname wrote: »

Am I right in saying Hernandez has never scored a goal outside the box for us? every goal he scores this season seems to be outside it, his first 2 for Madrid were screamers too

No he got one just can't remember what it was...remember it being a big deal that it wasn't inside the area

Redo91

Whatsisname wrote: »

Am I right in saying Hernandez has never scored a goal outside the box for us? every goal he scores this season seems to be outside it, his first 2 for Madrid were screamers too

RVN was the same too. Considering all the goals he got for us I'm pretty sure he just got the one goal outside the box.

Whatsisname

Smalling is Moss from The IT Crowd

Liam O

Wait, so he doesn't take care of contract negotiations? I mean I know agents have power but surely a player would want to be somewhat updated?

Giggsy11

Henry wrote:

You will only truly appreciate Rooney when he has retired. It's a shame but it's always like hat.
'I would absolutely urge all those youngsters in the squad, such as Raheem Sterling and Harry Kane, to watch and learn off Rooney from this day onwards.
'They are extremely lucky to be on the same training pitch as this guy and they must make the most of it. It will be a real waste if they do not.
'They must try to copy him. In terms of his dedication and the way he plays. I would also say this to the young lads at Manchester United.

'To play well for six months or a season in football is nothing. To do so for over a decade like Rooney is extraordinary. I know what it takes and it isn't easy.
'Trust me, people talk about him outside of this country. In Spain and France, he is appreciated as a top, top player.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3016741/Wayne-Rooney-one-greats-game-Harry-Kane-learn-says-Thierry-Henry.html

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

Wait, so he doesn't take care of contract negotiations? I mean I know agents have power but surely a player would want to be somewhat updated?

I suspect what he really meant was "Thats none of your business, so have a meaningless stock answer".

Cantona's Collars

"Marca say Bernd Leno has passed Madrid test and isn't seen as inferior to De Gea, also easier to sign."

Some good news then,looks as if Madrid will leave us alone about De Gea.

Adamcp898

zerks wrote: »

"Marca say Bernd Leno has passed Madrid test and isn't seen as inferior to De Gea, also easier to sign."

Some good news then,looks as if Madrid will leave us alone about De Gea.

Whilst I desperately hope this is true, I wouldn't go counting our chickens yet

TheDoc

Liam O wrote: »

Wait, so he doesn't take care of contract negotiations? I mean I know agents have power but surely a player would want to be somewhat updated?

Really not that surprising. Plenty of players leave their **** entirely to their agents or reps.

In the case of Smalling, I'd imagine conversations have been had where the club have outlined they are fully intent on keeping him.

So as long as he is not moving, he might genuinely not care about the details and specifics.

Smalling specifically, must be remembered he came into professional football somewhat late. He had exposure to the real world working, and even over the weekend articles and interviews about how he was planning univeristy and his career path then a call came out of the blue from Hodgson for Fulham.

It's noticable how players like that in the modern era are a lot more relaxed about their contracts and earnings. They know what its like in the real world, and have experience in what sort of earnings they would make outside the game. So they are fully content knowing they will be well looked after.

Compare that with someone like say Sterling, who has from a young age being on the path of football, and probably known for some time they would be a proffesional footballer, they handle their contracts and expected earnings totally different. They have no real world experience or ties, and they see their renumeration in comparison to other players, and in regards how important they are to the team.

If United signed me tomorrow, I probably would never get too involved in a contract either. As long as I was wanted and being offered a contract, I'd have a solictor read it over making sure i wasnt getting ****ed and happily sign it. Anything I got in football would be astronomically more then I'll ever earn in my career.

TheDoc

Do you ever get that in work or home or something where you just run out of passwords to use? My Desktop in work has that craic of change your password once every 14 days, and you can't use like one of the last eight or something. Seriously running out of combinations

Assosiated with some numbers, have gone with WellDoneFellaini