Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

fitzer1982

Did Chico score outside the box in a champions league match away to Valencia?

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I'd give 100% if I was on 270k a week too.
What do you expect anyone to give when they're working and on that type of money ?

not about the money, its about the attitude of the player. Ibrahimovic earns upwards of 300k a week and would even be in the same bracket as falcao for effort

bangkok

fitze69 wrote: »

Did Chico score outside the box in a champions league match away to Valencia?

nope

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1w0e6zeKyo

duffman13

bangkok wrote: »

not about the money, its about the attitude of the player. Ibrahimovic earns upwards of 300k a week and would even be in the same bracket as falcao for effort

He doesn't need to try as hard to see his quality. Ibrahimovic is a much more complete player!

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

not about the money, its about the attitude of the player. Ibrahimovic earns upwards of 300k a week and would even be in the same bracket as falcao for effort

Nice comparison......oh wait lets compare apples and oranges and try and find some middle-ground....NO

Different players who play completely different roles on the pitch, one is a fantastic goal poacher who has lived off the shoulder of players his entire career and continuously runs.

the other is Ibra and infinitely more complete player who just happens to be one of the worlds biggest egomaniacs.


The point remains valid, he's on upwards of 270k a year, he knows he will be looking for a new club come summer time do you think he's going to sit on the bench and sulk and potentially put doubts in any other suitors who may come a knocking. I know I'd be smiling

Again great effort, but sorry if I'm in the minority that doesn't want to spend 40million and 300k a week on a player who's showing great attitude on the bench.

Johner

bangkok wrote: »

not about the money, its about the attitude of the player. Ibrahimovic earns upwards of 300k a week and would even be in the same bracket as falcao for effort

Different types of players.

Falcao was going to have to show an awful lot more than a good attitude to justify the fee and wages it would take in the summer to buy him and he just hasn't delivered. I get why United fans like him and want him to do well because he does have a likeable attitude but he hasn't done near enough to secure a permanent move.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Nice comparison......oh wait lets compare apples and oranges and try and find some middle-ground....NO

Different players who play completely different roles on the pitch, one is a fantastic goal poacher who has lived off the shoulder of players his entire career and continuously runs.

the other is Ibra and infinitely more complete player who just happens to be one of the worlds biggest egomaniacs.


The point remains valid, he's on upwards of 270k a year, he knows he will be looking for a new club come summer time do you think he's going to sit on the bench and sulk and potentially put doubts in any other suitors who may come a knocking. I know I'd be smiling

Again great effort, but sorry if I'm in the minority that doesn't want to spend 40million and 300k a week on a player who's showing great attitude on the bench.

don't think it works like that, when tevez and balotelli constantly have clubs queuing up for them when they are available just proves the point

jayo26

bangkok wrote: »

don't think it works like that, when tevez and balotelli constantly have clubs queuing up for them when they are available just proves the point

I actually agree with you this time. Its not about the money all the time falcao has been nothing short or professional with united compaired to other players Tha throw tantrums and sulk with other clubs he has been smiling 24/7, one of the guys posted a link of him celebrating matas goal against Liverpool he was like one of the fans.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

don't think it works like that, when tevez and balotelli constantly have clubs queuing up for them when they are available just proves the point

There are PLENTY of clubs who will not go near a player who has a troubled past. Whilst I agree with you the majority dont care but some do. Again the original point still stands.

Anyone not being a model professional on that sort of money shouldn't be on that sort of money and should be shown the door.

We're patting someone on the back for doing what ? what they're supposed to be doing......all because a few bad apples like Tevez and Ballotelli throw strops and we believe everyone who doesn't should be held on a pedestal. It's this sort of thinking and mentality that has the likes of Tevez and Ballotelli the way they are.

bucketybuck

So Falcao celebrated when we scored a goal? Is that all it takes these days?

There are far more examples of players remaining professional when on the bench than there are Ballotellis or Tevez's. Even just in the PL there is Dzeko and Jovetic, Ricky Lambert, Loric Remy, Soldado and plenty others, all lads sitting on the bench like professionals and not running to the papers complaining. Falcao is nothing special in that regard.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

There are PLENTY of clubs who will not go near a player who has a troubled past. Whilst I agree with you the majority dont care but some do. Again the original point still stands.

Anyone not being a model professional on that sort of money shouldn't be on that sort of money and should be shown the door.

We're patting someone on the back for doing what ? what they're supposed to be doing......all because a few bad apples like Tevez and Ballotelli throw strops and we believe everyone who doesn't should be held on a pedestal. It's this sort of thinking and mentality that has the likes of Tevez and Ballotelli the way they are.

if the player is good enough clubs really don't care.... Luis Suarez could have gone to any club he wanted in the world last summer and this after biting 3 players.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

So Falcao celebrated when we scored a goal? Is that all it takes these days?

There are far more examples of players remaining professional when on the bench than there are Ballotellis or Tevez's. Even just in the PL there is Dzeko and Jovetic, Ricky Lambert, Loric Remy, Soldado and plenty others, all lads sitting on the bench like professionals and not running to the papers complaining. Falcao is nothing special in that regard.

off all those players you listed how many of them are world class? zero

Falcao is a world class striker on a bad run of form not helped by sitting on the bench

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

if the player is good enough clubs really don't care.... Luis Suarez could have gone to any club he wanted in the world last summer and this after biting 3 players.

Again......we're getting off topic....slightly moving the goal posts from the original point at hand so I'll try and bring you back.

Attitude...........be it good or bad does not warrant 40million and 300k a year if you're not performing on the pitch.

I'll leave it at that

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

off all those players you listed how many of them are world class? zero

Falcao is a world class striker on a bad run of form not helped by sitting on the bench

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

jayo26

Hardley I'm not saying he is value for money or anything close to it I'm saying under his circumstances he has been professional, look at it from his angle just over a year ago he was one of the best players in the world he goes and gets an absolute terrible injury that rules him out of world cup that he would of probably started in considering how Columbia got on it, he then moves to a new club on trial basically is what the loan was and he has struggled in part with form and fitness at the start he ends up on the bench and playing for the under 21s that cant be easy no matter what money he is earning and if it was just about money he could of stayed in Monaco.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Again......we're getting off topic....slightly moving the goal posts from the original point at hand so I'll try and bring you back.

Attitude...........be it good or bad does not warrant 40million and 300k a year if you're not performing on the pitch.

I'll leave it at that

sign him up

Maximus Alexander

I have a good attitude and always celebrate United's goals, even though they haven't put me in the team. Can I have 300k a week now please?

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

What the hell does that have to do with anything?

The original post was about him been professional and not throwing a tantrum, he is a likeable player that's all I'm saying,

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

off all those players you listed how many of them are world class? zero

Falcao is a world class striker on a bad run of form not helped by sitting on the bench

What is world class these days ? because he's certainly not been anywhere near world class since he's put on a united shirt. He certainly didn't look world class when he was getting bullied off the ball in an u21 game..

Bangok, this is the only way I think I can explain it to you.

If you are a manager of an organization and you've just hired someone based on their experience for a trail period of 12 months, within the contract is the option to make the employee permanent at the end of the 12 month period.

The 12 months have finished, work performances are down and there is a significant overhead for the asset...do you cut your losses or potentially invest 50% of the years budget on someone that may or may not come good, or actually doesn't even fit into the system you're trying to play.


Falcao WAS / IS world class but the point remains that he's shown NONE of it whilst playing for united. He could well be the next Torres and be someone who fails to regain past performances based on a nasty injury or he could well be another Forlan who goes on to light up the world for someone else.

Either way the following points stand.

You do not pay 40 million for someone who is behaving like they should be
You do not pay 40 million for someone who celebrates like a fan
You do not pay 40 million for someone who has performed the way he's performed on the pitch.

jayo26

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I have a good attitude and always celebrate United's goals, even though they haven't put me in the team. Can I have 300k a week now please?

Mate it didn't start off as an argument about how much he earned it was literally saying he had a good attitude, I don't think he is worth the money he is payed that's for sure but I do think he has a good attitude.

bucketybuck

jayo26 wrote: »

The original post was about him been professional and not throwing a tantrum, he is a likeable player that's all I'm saying,

Which I have no problem with. I just feel like being professional is a minimum standard from a professional footballer, so I'm not going to laud him for it either. And thats the same whether somebody thinks he is world class or not.

bangkok

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

What is world class these days ? because he's certainly not been anywhere near world class since he's put on a united shirt. He certainly didn't look world class when he was getting bullied off the ball in an u21 game..

Bangok, this is the only way I think I can explain it to you.

If you are a manager of an organization and you've just hired someone based on their experience for a trail period of 12 months, within the contract is the option to make the employee permanent at the end of the 12 month period.

The 12 months have finished, work performances are down and there is a significant overhead for the asset...do you cut your losses or potentially invest 50% of the years budget on someone that may or may not come good, or actually doesn't even fit into the system you're trying to play.


Falcao WAS / IS world class but the point remains that he's shown NONE of it whilst playing for united. He could well be the next Torres and be someone who fails to regain past performances based on a nasty injury or he could well be another Forlan who goes on to light up the world for someone else.

Either way the following points stand.

You do not pay 40 million for someone who is behaving like they should be
You do not pay 40 million for someone who celebrates like a fan
You do not pay 40 million for someone who has performed the way he's performed on the pitch.

I agree with you 100%, I don't think he should be signed for the money quoted. This was my original post..

"you wont see a better penalty than this.

3 goals in 2 games, yes opposition was poor but 70min and 90mins under his belt along with 3 goals his confidence should be good.

Would really like to see it work out for Falcao at United, a very likeable player and he always gives 100%"

I just think he has been unlucky, in a team at the start of the year that was created little or no chances, but when a chance comes his way more often that not he will score it and hopefully the goals he scored on international duty will give him more confidence when he comes back in a united shirt and he does well for the remaining games. If he ends up at Juventus next season all the best for him, I think he will do very well over there.

jayo26

bucketybuck wrote: »

Which I have no problem with. I just feel like being professional is a minimum standard from a professional footballer, so I'm not going to laud him for it either. And thats the same whether somebody thinks he is world class or not.

Yup of course it is but its still Nice to see it because it could easily be the other way where he is sending out stories to the media like a few of the players did last year, even the other night when he was asked about juve links he said they do alot of talking I'm just concentrated on staying at united.

TheDoc

F365 running a Top Ten transfer saga's list. No suprise we factor most heavily in it. All evidence suggesting De Gea could be another

http://www.football365.com/topical-top-10/9781406/Top-Ten

club really has a horrendous track record in dealing with transfers and contracts...

jayo26

TheDoc wrote: »

F365 running a Top Ten transfer saga's list. No suprise we factor most heavily in it. All evidence suggesting De Gea could be another

http://www.football365.com/topical-top-10/9781406/Top-Ten

club really has a horrendous track record in dealing with transfers and contracts...

Who I the worst for us? Id say Ronaldo outgoing one of the ones that never happened for us was sheerer I remember back then the papers and all had copies of our pre season flight plans and sheerers name was even booked on the plane.

sReq | uTeK

bangkok wrote: »

I agree with you 100%, I don't think he should be signed for the money quoted. This was my original post..

"you wont see a better penalty than this.

3 goals in 2 games, yes opposition was poor but 70min and 90mins under his belt along with 3 goals his confidence should be good.

Would really like to see it work out for Falcao at United, a very likeable player and he always gives 100%"

I just think he has been unlucky, in a team at the start of the year that was created little or no chances, but when a chance comes his way more often that not he will score it and hopefully the goals he scored on international duty will give him more confidence when he comes back in a united shirt and he does well for the remaining games. If he ends up at Juventus next season all the best for him, I think he will do very well over there.

Fair point.

paulbok

I think most here agree that based on his age, the injury last year and his performances this season (service aside) that they wouldn't justify signing Falcao for the reported fee of £44m(?).

With that in mind, if the fee was re-negotiated, and I can't see Monaco agreeing to it, is there a point where signing him would be acceptable?
If it was for no more than £25m (with some appearance/ performance related add-ons) then I would be ok with chancing a permanent transfer.

Mitch Connor

paulbok wrote: »

I think most here agree that based on his age, the injury last year and his performances this season (service aside) that they wouldn't justify signing Falcao for the reported fee of £44m(?).

With that in mind, if the fee was re-negotiated, and I can't see Monaco agreeing to it, is there a point where signing him would be acceptable?
If it was for no more than £25m (with some appearance/ performance related add-ons) then I would be ok with chancing a permanent transfer.

I just don't see the point in signing him, for any money.

If LVG decides 433 is his formation for us, then he need to balance the squad to match this. Would he drop Rooney to play Falcao? I don't think so. Is Falcao going to be happy, or productive, with rotational or sub role? I don't think so.

If we are not going to play 2 up top, and Falcao isn't going to be first choice up top on his own, then I see little point in buying him - unless LVG would plan on playing a 433 with a number 10, and that number 10 being Rooney. I'd probably back Falcao to rediscover his form over RVP.

Maximus Alexander

paulbok wrote: »

With that in mind, if the fee was re-negotiated, and I can't see Monaco agreeing to it, is there a point where signing him would be acceptable?
If it was for no more than £25m (with some appearance/ performance related add-ons) then I would be ok with chancing a permanent transfer.

I think no. Based on what he has shown, he shouldn't be signed at any cost. He has given United no reason to keep him around, the only reason fans even want him is because of what he did historically. If a player of his age and without a name arrived and delivered what he did this year, the majority of us wouldn't even be asking this question - we'd probably be asking questions about the scouts instead.

Honestly, at this point it looks like taking Hernandez back would be a better bet - and I don't even see that happening.

bucketybuck

paulbok wrote: »

I think most here agree that based on his age, the injury last year and his performances this season (service aside) that they wouldn't justify signing Falcao for the reported fee of £44m(?).

With that in mind, if the fee was re-negotiated, and I can't see Monaco agreeing to it, is there a point where signing him would be acceptable?
If it was for no more than £25m (with some appearance/ performance related add-ons) then I would be ok with chancing a permanent transfer.

I wouldn't. Everybody seems to be clinging to the belief that he is still world class but the evidence in front of us says otherwise. We gave him games and he looked slow, he looked like he had no first touch and he didn't score goals. Thats what we should be judging him on, not on what he did 2/3 years ago. If Falcao was called Danny Wellbeck and had the exact same season he just had I bet not one person wouldn't even consider paying £25m for him.

Torres, Shevchenko, the game is full of examples of players who once hit incredible heights but then weren't able to recreate that form again. Frankly, I think Falcao shows all the signs of following suit. Forget his name, judge him on the pitch, and his performance on the pitch says not a chance we should buy him.

Spazdarn

Like Falcao, feel he was a scapegoat of fairly cack United play, having to receive the ball, back to goal, not enough chances being created for him.

United are playing well now, and he's not going to get the 8 games to prove his worth.

44 million, not a hope. 25 million equally so, he hasn't been that bad on the pitch but I'd rather spend 25 million on a younger player who has the potential to get us more goals and someone who'll have sell on value...

Your Airbag

Spazdarn wrote: »

Like Falcao, feel he was a scapegoat of fairly cack United play, having to receive the ball, back to goal, not enough chances being created for him.

United are playing well now, and he's not going to get the 8 games to prove his worth.

44 million, not a hope. 25 million equally so, he hasn't been that bad on the pitch but I'd rather spend 25 million on a younger player who has the potential to get us more goals and someone who'll have sell on value...

Copper_pipe

https://twitter.com/diegocora_ESPN/status/582649993372119040

sReq | uTeK

Your Airbag wrote: »

He's right. Why would you spend that much on someone who hasn't played well ALL season and has shown no indication he will improve

Copper_pipe

Copper_pipe wrote: »

https://twitter.com/diegocora_ESPN/status/582649993372119040

Man United confirm their interest in the young Argentinian, striker at Palermo, Paulo Dybala.

I speak Spanish!!! Or whatever that is.

Your Airbag

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

He's right. Why would you spend that much on someone who hasn't played well ALL season and has shown no indication he will improve

Probably makes sense but I have a soft spot for Falcao though

Mitch Connor

Dybala is a player I would be delighted with - quick, good on the ball in terms of passing and dribbling. Would bring pace to the side that we had/have lacked for much of this season.

The_Kew_Tour

Was chatting to few Juve friends last night and they seem certain that Pogba is off in the summer and that United are very keen.

I honestly can't see him coming back to United anyway fwiw.

Trond

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Dybala is a player I would be delighted with - quick, good on the ball in terms of passing and dribbling. Would bring pace to the side that we had/have lacked for much of this season.

I think he'll be too expensive for us after we strengthen elsewhere. Vietto might be a better option given his release clause....Hes also a top prospect tbf.

TheDoc

jayo26 wrote: »

Who I the worst for us? Id say Ronaldo outgoing one of the ones that never happened for us was sheerer I remember back then the papers and all had copies of our pre season flight plans and sheerers name was even booked on the plane.

Too many to name in fairness. Shearer isn't actually one I'd say was bundled, as he was a Newcastle lad, and you knew he was going there for purely boyhood dream come true. It wasn't for money, and I'm sure he knew he wouldn't be winning titles. I have respect for those sort of moves where the person knows they are turning down something amazing to pursue a dream.

There is however a massive list of names that were totally bundled. While there is certain respects of hindsight seeing how these players developed ( or are still developing), with more attention and competence some tremendous players could have played for us, with the most immediate "aw for **** sake" being Moura, Robben, Ronaldhino and Hazard.

Vic Vinegar

Bundled?

irishfeen

Fabio Coentrao and Mats Hummels linked very strongly again today .. God it's going to be a very long transfer window isn't it...

TheDoc

Trond wrote: »

I think he'll be too expensive for us after we strengthen elsewhere. Vietto might be a better option given his release clause....Hes also a top prospect tbf.

I havn't seen any of Dybala, but seen plenty of Vietto. I can only go on second hand information but so many quarters saying Dybala is the hotter prospect, which is ridiculous considering the break through season Vietto has had.

Although significant risk, both players having their breakthrough season. Vietto has a fixed clause which isn't break the bank (in the 20's) while I believe I read the Palermo president saying that Dybala will most likely leave, but for not a penny below €40m.

Money most likely isn't a problem, but I'm sure someone in the upper echelons will say "hold on a minute" after spunking €30m on Shaw who has been extremely poor and riddled with injury, and already speculation that Van Gaal wants someone more established in as his first choice LB. Was pretty obvious the lack of trust in Shaw the last few months.

If what I believe does come to pass, a 4-3-3, that means one striker. I'm resigned to Falcao leaving, but I think RVP will stay in a more reserved role with Rooney as number 1. That doesn't provide a lot of prospects for any incoming striker, unless Rooney is shunted out right to accomodate.

I'm certain that Depay will be joining. Too much admission from PSV that he will leave from management and executive, and with a tentative value of the mid 20's(m) he's incredible value for a young player Van Gaal has close ties with, and was spot on with his recommended development path.

I'd actually be surprised if we signed a striker truth be told, unless Van Persie was going also. I don't see Van Gaal playing two up top long term, and think there will only be one spot.

The_Kew_Tour

Hummels is linked from all sides so must have legs to it at this stage.
Not sure I want him though.He is good but not sure if he is that good. Maybe im being harsh I have only seen him few times this season.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Too many to name in fairness. Shearer isn't actually one I'd say was bundled, as he was a Newcastle lad, and you knew he was going there for purely boyhood dream come true. It wasn't for money, and I'm sure he knew he wouldn't be winning titles. I have respect for those sort of moves where the person knows they are turning down something amazing to pursue a dream.

There is however a massive list of names that were totally bundled. While there is certain respects of hindsight seeing how these players developed ( or are still developing), with more attention and competence some tremendous players could have played for us, with the most immediate "aw for **** sake" being Moura, Robben, Ronaldhino and Hazard.

that list, Moura has proven to be a bit of a flop at PSG, don't think he would have taken to the premier league.

Robben deal was almost a done deal but Peter Kenyon knew he was going to Chelsea and he took robben with him

Ronaldinho would have been un unbelievable signing, nearly had him in the bag but Sandro Rosell convinced him to join Barca and follow in the footsteps of other past Brazilians, also if we signed Ronaldinho would we have signed Ronaldo??

Hazard at the time I was happy we didn't sign him because quiet frankly he came across as a total dick with his carry on on twitter and youtube etc totally disrespectful to his club (but he is a fantastic player)

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Was chatting to few Juve friends last night and they seem certain that Pogba is off in the summer and that United are very keen.

I honestly can't see him coming back to United anyway fwiw.

I would say both those elements are true.

But City are also very keen, Madrid are also very keen, PSG are also very keen.

From what I have seen said elsewhere, if he comes back to England then City reckon they have the deal done.

Mitch Connor

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Hummels is linked from all sides so must have legs to it at this stage.
Not sure I want him though.He is good but not sure if he is that good. Maybe im being harsh I have only seen him few times this season.

I don't know if he is a PL ready defender. An excellent one, but I do wonder about him adapting to the pace and physicality of the PL. Someone like Godin would seem a more ready defender imo - a Vidic type player.

LVG wants his ball playing CB though, and Hummels is looking like the top target there. Play him as the Rio to Rojo's pitbull Vidic style.

bangkok

irishfeen wrote: »

Fabio Coentrao and Mats Hummels linked very strongly again today .. God it's going to be a very long transfer window isn't it...

not a hope we sign Fabio Coentrao, already have shaw, rojo, Blind, young, evans and Blackett that can play there

irishfeen

bangkok wrote: »

not a hope we sign Fabio Coentrao, already have shaw, rojo, Blind, young, evans and Blackett that can play there

Don't shoot the messenger

irishfeen

Various reports too about Di Maria to PSG .. I presume we are all taking it as absolutely bullshíte??