Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Note in OP, 25/3

Cantona's Collars

bucketybuck

Mitch Connor wrote: »

His ability to trap a ball is very very good.

I can see arguments against his dribbling or close control under pressure - but his first touch is very good. I don't understand how people can say otherwise.

It is very good, as long as he doesn't have to immediately use the ball.

Liam O

Kirby wrote: »

[IMG]http://www.artsjournal.com/engage/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/StrawMan.jpg The medals he's won or hasn't won has no bearing on his ability to trap a ball.[/img]

So what you're saying is Alex Ferguson allowed a player with a relatively bad first touch to be the anchor of his midfield during his team's most successful period ever? If it was as poor as you and Pro F are trying to make out then any hack would run over him in the middle every game.Yet he's done it in CL latter stages and in that been the best or among the best players on the team against Chelsea, Real and others that I'm not going to go to the trouble of thinking of. Just saying he's not good at it isn't going to be enough for me here, or corny pictures.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

His ability to trap a ball is very very good.

I can see arguments against his dribbling or close control under pressure - but his first touch is very good. I don't understand how people can say otherwise.

Because you aren't judging first touch in an effective way. You're expecting a weaker first touch to be made obvious by the ball bouncing off him. But his touch isn't so bad that that would happen when he's trying to keep it simple. The issue with his touch is that it isn't good enough to allow him to beat players from tricky situations with it. He always either avoids receiving the ball in those situations or keeps it extremely simple when he does. If he tried to do what Pirlo does you would see the ball bouncing off him.

It's often the case that midfielders who lack in first touch play intelligently enough to make sure their touch doesn't get tested. If you want to judge a players first touch you have to look a lot closer than just checking whether the ball bounced off him. You have to figure out what the player was trying to do when receiving the ball, how difficult that was and how efficiently he did it.

Kirby

Liam O wrote: »

corny pictures.

That's not corn. It's straw.

You say "he's done it" in the latter stages of the champions league. What exactly do you mean by "done it"? If just being on the pitch is enough to "do it" then fair enough. But most people, fans and pundits alike, have regarded central midfield to be a massive problem for United even during Ferguson's era and Carrick was a part of that.

And to be clear, I never questioned Carrick or his touch. That was Pro.F. I was simply pointing out the logical fallacy in suggesting a player playing well or poorly has any effect on what they do well or don't do well. Which you can see a few posts above this one. Similarly how many medals they've won....as was the assertion. It's not a computer game...he doesn't get +1 touch for winning a medal. To bring up what he's won in an discussion about his touch is ridiculous.

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

Because you aren't judging first touch in an effective way. You're expecting a weaker first touch to be made obvious by the ball bouncing off him. But his touch isn't so bad that that would happen when he's trying to keep it simple. The issue with his touch is that it isn't good enough to allow him to beat players from tricky situations with it. He always either avoids receiving the ball in those situations or keeps it extremely simple when he does. If he tried to do what Pirlo does you would see the ball bouncing off him.

It's often the case that midfielders who lack in first touch play intelligently enough to make sure their touch doesn't get tested. If you want to judge a players first touch you have to look a lot closer than just checking whether the ball bounced off him. You have to figure out what the player was trying to do when receiving the ball, how difficult that was and how efficiently he did it.

Beating a player is dribbling.

First touch is ability to bring the ball under control. His ability to bring a ball under control is very good. Not the best in the squad though - would say Mata and Herrera have a better first touch.

Pro. F

Liam O wrote: »

So what you're saying is Alex Ferguson allowed a player with a relatively bad first touch to be the anchor of his midfield during his team's most successful period ever? If it was as poor as you and Pro F are trying to make out then any hack would run over him in the middle every game.Yet he's done it in CL latter stages and in that been the best or among the best players on the team against Chelsea, Real and others that I'm not going to go to the trouble of thinking of. Just saying he's not good at it isn't going to be enough for me here, or corny pictures.

Ferguson wasn't perfect and the team that Carrick was a part of were exposed as being weak to being pressed a good few times. Edit: and the games where Carrick has "done it" in the CL have not been against consistent high pressing teams.

"Any hack" wouldn't be able to just run over him, because that is not an effective way of exposing a midfielder with a poor touch. The hack's team would need to be pressing high as a unit. Since Carrick would just drop back to between the CBs when that happened then they'd have to press extremely high to catch him on the ball. Even then Carrick can still just avoid receiving possession or keep it overly simple when he does.

You're not going to get a nice and simple cough up of possession from a mis-control by an intelligent midfielder like Carrick by which to see the deficiency in his first touch. You have to look at things that are more subtle than that. Like whether he is doing what he should be doing when the opposition team press - receiving the ball in that pressure when necessary, turning on it to take markers out of the game and playing it to teammates in freer positions. Or how cleanly and efficiently he turns on the ball with his first touch when he has space - not near as good as he should be able to for the elite level.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Beating a player is dribbling.

First touch is ability to bring the ball under control. His ability to bring a ball under control is very good. Not the best in the squad though - would say Mata and Herrera have a better first touch.

You can beat a player with the first touch. That is not dribbling. CMs trying to do any sort of Pirlo type job need to be able to do that very well.

If you want to call that dribbling then fine. Carrick's dribbling isn't good enough to play a Pirlo type role. However calling beating a player with your first touch "dribbling" is unnecessarily confusing.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

Ferguson wasn't perfect and the team that Carrick was a part of were exposed as being weak to being pressed a good few times.

"Any hack" wouldn't be able to just run over him, because that is not an effective way of exposing a midfielder with a poor touch. The hack's team would need to be pressing high as a unit. Since Carrick would just drop back to between the CBs when that happened then they'd have to press extremely high to catch him on the ball. Even then Carrick can still just avoid receiving possession or keep it overly simple when he does.

You're not going to get a nice and simple cough up of possession from a mis-control by an intelligent midfielder like Carrick by which to see the deficiency in his first touch. You have to look at things that a more subtle than that. Like whether he is doing what he should be doing when the opposition team press - receiving the ball in that pressure when necessary, turning on it to take markers out of the game and playing it to teammates in freer positions. Or how cleanly and efficiently he turns on the ball with his first touch when he has space - not near as good as he should be able to for the elite level.

when? against Barcelona twice when he had Anderson or giggs in the midfield with him? don't make me laugh. Carrick was an excellent first touch to say other wise is ridiculous. Have a look at this and come back to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

Mitch Connor

Simply put, for a player's first touch to be described as WEAK, they have to display an inability to adequately control the ball on a fairly consistent basis. Rooney displays this, irritatingly, with the ball bouncing off him a little too far, in every game. Carrick doesn't display such an inability to control the ball and keep it within a comfortable playing distance. You play the ball to Carrick and he will control it. He may be subsequently tackled through not using it quickly enough - but he will bring the ball down or stop it/whatever first.

You can argue he can't beat a man with his first touch, or that he doesn't try to do it - fine. But to say his first touch is WEAK is simply wrong imo. He has a very good first touch, you just don't like what he does (or doesn't do) with it.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

when? against Barcelona twice when he had Anderson or giggs in the midfield with him? don't make me laugh. Carrick was an excellent first touch to say other wise is ridiculous. Have a look at this and come back to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1WxIDmv-Ak

I've watched that video before. I'm not seeing this supposedly good first touch. If you point out the exact times on the video when his touch is so good I'll have a look at them and get back to you.

Pro. F

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Simply put, for a player's first touch to be described as WEAK, they have to display an inability to adequately control the ball on a fairly consistent basis. Rooney displays this, irritatingly, with the ball bouncing off him a little too far, in every game. Carrick doesn't display such an inability to control the ball and keep it within a comfortable playing distance. You play the ball to Carrick and he will control it. He may be subsequently tackled through not using it quickly enough - but he will bring the ball down or stop it/whatever first.

You can argue he can't beat a man with his first touch, or that he doesn't try to do it - fine. But to say his first touch is WEAK is simply wrong imo. He has a very good first touch, you just don't like what he does (or doesn't do) with it.

This is a fall back argument that has been used many times before. And it has been addressed many times before, because it is very simple.

Carrick's first touch is relatively weak. It's good compared to the vast majority of centre-backs. It's as good or better than a lot of wingers and forwards. It's as good or better than the majority of central midfielders playing in the PL. But it is weak when compared to most Spanish CMs. It is weak when compared to a good number of CMs who you will see playing at the top end of the CL.

If you want your DM to be good at keeping possession like Pirlo is, then you will find that Carrick's first touch is too weak.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

I've watched that video before. I'm not seeing this supposedly good first touch. If you point out the exact times on the video when his touch is so good I'll have a look at them and get back to you.

1.10 - 1.25 and 3.40 anyway. both against Real Madrid.

Fakman87

Liam O wrote: »

So Carrick doesn't have as good first touch as a player who is once in a lifetime and among the top 10 ever in his position. It must be terrible. May as well just give back that CL and all the league titles with him in there and the last 2 results against teams known for their pressing must have been flukes. The team were doing so well without him in that position...

The day I come into this forum and don't see a straw man argument will be a great day.

I mean how ****ing bad is our education system when this is an automatic reply to an argument for so many people.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

This is a fall back argument that has been used many times before. And it has been addressed many times before, because it is very simple.

Carrick's first touch is relatively weak. It's good compared to the vast majority of centre-backs. It's as good or better than a lot of wingers and forwards. It's as good or better than the majority of central midfielders playing in the PL. But it is weak when compared to most Spanish CMs. It is weak when compared to a good number of CMs who you will see playing at the top end of the CL.

If you want your DM to be good at keeping possession like Pirlo is, then you will find that Carrick's first touch is too weak.

Edit: and your first sentence is just completely ignoring the counter argument I've put to you about how it is not always that obvious.

again that is Bull.... Look at the stats for Champions league passers and % of successful passes etc and carrick is always near the top.

Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal are currently the top 3 teams in England are you telling me carrick wouldn't be on any of those teams maybe apart from Chelsea midfield? He would walk onto the city and arsenal team.

Europe. Real Madrid.... If you watch them you would realise their problems come from the fact they have modric/kroos midfield, neither a defensive player, carrick would be an ideal partner for either

He could easily play the busquets role for Barca, 70% possession every game would be a walk in the park for him


Ac Milan, Roma, Inter, Juventus he would walk onto any of those teams

bucketybuck

You are all babbling past each other, perhaps you should just agree on what first touch actually means.

Carrick can trap the ball fine, he can take down a pass fine, what he doesn't have is an effective first touch, one that by itself creates space or eludes close tacklers.

Carrick's first touch is fine if all you want him to do is control the ball. If you want him to beat a man with that same first touch you will be out of luck.

akelly02

bangkok wrote: »

again that is Bull.... Look at the stats for Champions league passers and % of successful passes etc and carrick is always near the top.

Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal are currently the top 3 teams in England are you telling me carrick wouldn't be on any of those teams maybe apart from Chelsea midfield? He would walk onto the city and arsenal team.

Europe. Real Madrid.... If you watch them you would realise their problems come from the fact they have modric/kroos midfield, neither a defensive player, carrick would be an ideal partner for either

He could easily play the busquets role for Barca, 70% possession every game would be a walk in the park for him


Ac Milan, Roma, Inter, Juventus he would walk onto any of those teams

You have a serious hard on for Carrick, where you got it from i just do not know. You are making him out to be some sort of God. If he was all that he would have started instead of a Centre Back in Phil Jones the other night.

Maximus Alexander

akelly02 wrote: »

If he was all that he would have started instead of a Centre Back in Phil Jones the other night.

Whatever about the argument the lads are having in general, this is just terrible logic.

bangkok

akelly02 wrote: »

You have a serious hard on for Carrick, where you got it from i just do not know. You are making him out to be some sort of God. If he was all that he would have started instead of a Centre Back in Phil Jones the other night.

yes because it has nothing to do with the fact he is 33 and played 90m on Fri night and Man Utd prob told England not to play him for 2 90min games.

Also I presume you seen the Italy England game did you?

bangkok

Ferguson, van gaal and wenger all have hard ons for carrick. He is a class player, end of

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30581143

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/19/manchester-united-michael-carrick-louis-van-gaal

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/2184210/wenger-declares-carrick-desire (that's when carrick was 18)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/26/arsene-wenger-michael-carrick-van-persie

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

1.10 - 1.25 and 3.40 anyway. both against Real Madrid.

At 1:10 against Real: he has only one marker close to him, that means he has plenty of space so he can let the ball run and without taking a touch to control it he plays a first time pass. Then he receives the ball in space and plays another first time pass.

At 1:15 against black and white team: clip doesn't show his first touch. Then he receives the one-two back, has only one marker, doesn't take a touch to try to control the ball and plays a first time pass.

At 1:18 against Real: Again the clip doesn't show his first touch. He plays a pass.

At 1:20 against City(?): He receives the ball in acres of space, again doesn't try to control it with his first touch and instead plays a first time pass

At 1:24 against Chelsea: He receives a slow moving 5 yard pass while being jockeyed by one marker. He controls the ball in front of him, doesn't have to turn or anything like that, and plays a pass. Five clips in and this is the first to actually show him controlling the ball with his first touch. He does fine, it is far from anything special.


At 3:40 against Madrid (clip starts at 3:38): his first touch is an interception where the ball bounces off him (no complaint, it's not a good or bad first touch, he was intercepting a pass). Then he competes for the ball at waist height and kicks it over his head (again no complaint, but it's not an example of a player trying to control the ball with his first touch). Then the ball is moving slowly and he takes a nice touch take it away from a marker who wasn't that close to him. Again nothing amazing and questionable if any of it even qualifies as a first touch in the way we were talking about it.

bangkok

Pro. F wrote: »

At 1:10 against Real: he has only one marker close to him, that means he has plenty of space so he can let the ball run and without taking a touch to control it he plays a first time pass. Then he receives the ball in space and plays another first time pass.

At 1:15 against black and white team: clip doesn't show his first touch. Then he receives the one-two back, has only one marker, doesn't take a touch to try to control the ball and plays a first time pass.

At 1:18 against Real: Again the clip doesn't show his first touch. He plays a pass.

At 1:20 against City(?): He receives the ball in acres of space, again doesn't try to control it with his first touch and instead plays a first time pass

At 1:24 against Chelsea: He receives a slow moving 5 yard pass while being jockeyed by one marker. He controls the ball in front of him, doesn't have to turn or anything like that, and plays a pass. Five clips in and this is the first to actually show him controlling the ball with his first touch. He does fine, it is far from anything special.


At 3:40 against Madrid (clip starts at 3:38): his first touch is an interception where the ball bounces off him (no complaint, it's not a good or bad first touch, he was intercepting a pass). Then he competes for the ball at waist height and kicks it over his head (again no complaint, but it's not an example of a player trying to control the ball with his first touch). Then the ball is moving slowly and he takes a nice touch take it away from a marker who wasn't that close to him. Again nothing amazing and questionable if any of it even qualifies as a first touch in the way we were talking about it.

show me clips of pirlo taking the ball with 3 or 4 players around him doing what he wants with it?

Adamcp898

Lads why have ye decided to get so hung up on his first touch? It's only one aspect. And by the sounds of it ye aren't even evaluating it as a whole to be honest and just isolating it to "his ability to control a ball when receiving it from a team mate". Your first touch refers to your control regardless of situation.

Surely ye should be debating whether he's good on the ball when pressured instead?? At least that way ye are encompassing his first touch, decision making, willingness to show for the ball etc. instead of just deciding how good a midfielder he is based on his first touch.

Cantona's Collars

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Lads why have ye decided to get so hung up on his first touch? It's only one aspect. And by the sounds of it ye aren't even evaluating it as a whole to be honest and just isolating it to "his ability to control a ball when receiving it from a team mate". Your first touch refers to your control regardless of situation.

Surely ye should be debating whether he's good on the ball when pressured instead?? At least that way ye are encompassing his first touch, decision making, willingness to show for the ball etc. instead of just deciding how good a midfielder he is based on his first touch.

His touch isn't the problem,it's when he's pressed.Although he is thriving under the system LVG has him in now.The elephant in the room is he's 34 in the next few weeks.

Kirby

bangkok wrote: »

Ferguson, van gaal and wenger all have hard ons for carrick. He is a class player, end of

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30581143

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/dec/19/manchester-united-michael-carrick-louis-van-gaal

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/2184210/wenger-declares-carrick-desire (that's when carrick was 18)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/apr/26/arsene-wenger-michael-carrick-van-persie

Oh so it's quotes now is it? That's what we are basing our opinion off? Grand so.

Sir alex tells me this Massimo Taibi fellow will be one of the worlds best goalkeepers. Move over Neur. It's Taibi time! :P

Quandary

What are we all thinking about the Villa game?

Hopefully we see the same midfield start again. If it ain't broken don't fix it IMO. I'd love to see us destroy Villa to keep this momentum going.

It would be brilliant to go into the City game full of confidence off the back of 3 impressive wins. If we play against City like we did against Liverpool in the first half we are very capable of winning the match.

winning the next two games and I would say that's top 4 in the bag!

bangkok

zerks wrote: »

His touch isn't the problem,it's when he's pressed.Although he is thriving under the system LVG has him in now.The elephant in the room is he's 34 in the next few weeks.

and the player he is being compared to is 36 in the next few weeks :P

bangkok

Quandary wrote: »

What are we all thinking about the Villa game?

Hopefully we see the same midfield start again. If it ain't broken don't fix it IMO. I'd love to see us destroy Villa to keep this momentum going.

It would be brilliant to go into the City game full of confidence off the back of 3 impressive wins. If we play against City like we did against Liverpool in the first half we are very capable of winning the match.

winning the next two games and I would say that's top 4 in the bag!

luckily for us tom cleverly cant play.... he has a better first touch than carrick so that's a big plus

bangkok

Kirby wrote: »

Oh so it's quotes now is it? That's what we are basing our opinion off? Grand so.

Sir alex tells me this Massimo Taibi fellow will be one of the worlds best goalkeepers. Move over Neur. It's Taibi time! :P

yes quotes from the greatest manager ever to grace the game, the current Manchester United manager and the longest serving manager in the league so I think I will trust their opinions over anyones on here

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

yes quotes from the greatest manager ever to grace the game, the current Manchester United manager and the longest serving manager in the league so I think I will trust their opinions over anyones on here

Personally I like to form my own opinions.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Personally I like to form my own opinions.

me too but I can also back it up with quotes from top managers

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

me too but I can also back it up with quotes from top managers

Which is a logical fallacy. But sure don't worry about it.

Cantona's Collars

Fenerbache interested in RVP: http://www.turkish-football.com/fenerbahce-hold-talks-with-manchester-united-star-robin-van-persie/

Claims in Turkey that preliminary talks have taken place.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

Fenerbache interested in RVP: http://www.turkish-football.com/fenerbahce-hold-talks-with-manchester-united-star-robin-van-persie/

Claims in Turkey that preliminary talks have taken place.

If we can 10 Million then that would be great deal for us. Can see him leaving like Berba though, for a nothing fee.

Pro. F

bangkok wrote: »

again that is Bull.... Look at the stats for Champions league passers and % of successful passes etc and carrick is always near the top.

Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal are currently the top 3 teams in England are you telling me carrick wouldn't be on any of those teams maybe apart from Chelsea midfield? He would walk onto the city and arsenal team.

Europe. Real Madrid.... If you watch them you would realise their problems come from the fact they have modric/kroos midfield, neither a defensive player, carrick would be an ideal partner for either

He could easily play the busquets role for Barca, 70% possession every game would be a walk in the park for him


Ac Milan, Roma, Inter, Juventus he would walk onto any of those teams

Stats for successful passes are not informative as to whether a central-midfielder is good at controlling and using the ball in tight spots. If the CM isn't pressed, which he can often avoid by just dropping back near his centre-backs, then he can rack up those stats as long as his passing is accurate. You will see that often those passing stats are dominated by CBs, that's because they get so much more time on the ball.

English football teams in general don't have central-midfielders who are good when pressed. The lack of appreciation for that ability is a defining trait of English football.

Arsenal are the exception, but Wenger has been flakey in the transfer market, constantly buying attacking midfielders at the expense of the rest of the team. So really with Arsenal you are putting Carrick up against a very green DM, not such stiff competition when you think about it.

City have been terrible in the transfer market. Yaya and Fernandinho aren't DMs and Fernando, while skilled always looked a bit lazy to me at Porto, he's not improved at City. So again not much competition.

With Chelsea I think Carrick should get in. Imo he is better than Matic, better at reading the game and passing. Matic is stronger and faster and can dribble a bit, but Carrick is still better overall imo. But that is a Mourinho team, Mourinho doesn't worry about possession too much in big games, so he doesn't look for the attributes in a DM that we're talking about.

The fact that Real don't have a central-midfielder who is good enough defensively is an issue for them. However that does not prove that Carrick is good enough on the ball to keep and use possession well when the opposition are pressing.

Buesquets has a better first touch and, importantly, he is good at dribbling which is an extra help for him in that regard. I wouldn't pick Carrick ahead of him.

AC and Inter are two mid-table teams.

De Rossi at Roma has a much better first touch and control than Carrick. He also has defensive ability and passing to go with it. He is much more suited to playing the possession keeping and using DM role than Carrick. Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio all have much better first touch than Carrick. I'd also pick all of them ahead of Carrick, although Pirlo is showing his age now so he does need to have the midfield set up to do his running for him.

TheDoc

Why is first touch such an anal issue relating to Carrick?

I'm struggling to remember AT ALL this season where Carrick, or Blind for that matter, was harassed and pressed upon receipt of the ball that it was an actual problem.

Teams this season have been much more comfortable sitting off us deep, inviting us to try break them down, which we for large parts have not been able to do. The change in the last two games however indicates we may be more confident doing so with how offensive play develops.

The positions Carrick receives the ball, means in the event of being pressed he has options with his full backs and his CB's, and is able to shift play and the attack can start from a different flank.

If his first touch or control was such a glaring issue, I'd except teams to target it more and harry him on the ball. Even when this does happen, he normally still makes a succesfull pass.

Struggling to see why it's absorbing so much debate, and if it maybe hasn't been some obscure scenarios or instances blown out of proportion. Blind has had some loose touches in recent memory where he has slipped or something, but I wouldn't exaggerate that to be "he has a rubbish first touch"... as there is enough evidence first half of season and with Ajax last season to show he has a wonderful first touch and body position in receipt of the ball.

If we are talking Falcao first touch then it's a point of arguement / debate, but failing to see what Carricks "perceived" poor touch has to do with anything. If anything I'd consider him to have superb control and touch, as he rarely is caught struggling to hit his pass. He knows where the pass is going on receipt of the ball, and his touch lines him up to do so. As opposed to say a Valencia, where the next pass is an afterthought after the first touch.

KombuchaMshroom

Fellaini is currently nominated for player of the month and Carrick was completely at fault for the last goal we conceeded which could have cost us hugely.

I think its a fantastic thing for the sanity of everyone on this thread that it isn't the other way around, or we'd never hear the end of it!

TheDoc

Stolen from reddit, but Henning Berg commenting on the signing of Fellaini

Interesting looking back, even if it was only a year and a bit ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10296528/Marouane-Fellaini-can-be-Manchester-Uniteds-new-Eric-Cantona-says-Henning-Berg.html

Liam O

I don't know, I'm actually shaking my head that the Carrick argument is back. After all he's done for the club he should be approaching at least respected pro status but instead gets these petty things brought up about him. This is probably around as in form as he has been when they've come up.

Maybe I'll just bump his dedicated thread again.

bangkok

TheDoc wrote: »

Stolen from reddit, but Henning Berg commenting on the signing of Fellaini

Interesting looking back, even if it was only a year and a bit ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10296528/Marouane-Fellaini-can-be-Manchester-Uniteds-new-Eric-Cantona-says-Henning-Berg.html

would take that with a pinch of salt....

this is the same henning berg that only lasted 10 games at Blackburn before getting sacked and had previously stated on Norwegian tv about Blackburn's owners, Venkys He said: "There are no real managers with credibility who would accept a job like that." :pac:

Will I Amnt

Headshot wrote: »

We should enquire about Sterling for the craic lol

Rodgers reckons he's going nowhere this Summer...
Then again, when you see this I suppose you can take everything else he says with a skip full of salt.

https://twitter.com/tonybarrettimes/status/583618370349694978

What happened Torres and Suarez?

bucketybuck

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm struggling to remember AT ALL this season where Carrick, or Blind for that matter, was harassed and pressed upon receipt of the ball that it was an actual problem.

Because this season we have been out of Europe, we haven't been playing the Bilbaos or Barcelona's where it is likely to be a problem.

But if we want to get back to being successful then the time will come when it will be an issue once again. Better we recognise that fact now.

Mitch Connor

what i find amusing is - at 40 posts per page - page 210 is a Carrick first touch argument. At 20 posts per page, page 210 is a Carrick first touch argument.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

I don't know, I'm actually shaking my head that the Carrick argument is back. After all he's done for the club he should be approaching at least respected pro status but instead gets these petty things brought up about him. This is probably around as in form as he has been when they've come up.

Maybe I'll just bump his dedicated thread again.

He doesn't have tenure you know, we are allowed to point out his flaws.

sky88

Never seen a problem with carricks first touch as someone above said its when hes pressed thats the problem i think.

seems ridiculous to have this discussions about his touch when falcaos and rooney touch as been horrendous at time this season

bangkok

any player that is pressed quickly will struggle on the ball, especially with 4 players around that was suggested earlier....

anyone remember Barca v Bayern a few years ago. 7-0 over 2 legs and could easily have been 11 or 12-0. Bayern pressed very high and Barca were not able to handle it

Liam O

bangkok wrote: »

any player that is pressed quickly will struggle on the ball, especially with 4 players around that was suggested earlier....

anyone remember Barca v Bayern a few years ago. 7-0 over 2 legs and could easily have been 11 or 12-0. Bayern pressed very high and Barca were not able to handle it

Xavi, Busquets and Iniesta are poor under pressure though as I'm sure you know. It doesn't matter what they've done.

Any midfielder will struggle the odd time against a top class midfield and pressing. I've seen it plenty of times from Alonso, an actual similar player to Carrick and nobody doubts his ability (which has always been admittedly higher than Carrick's) .

bangkok

if carrick has a "weak first touch" id like to hear your opinion on Fellaini's first touch...

















*gets coat

KH25

bangkok wrote: »

if carrick has a "weak first touch" id like to hear your opinion on Fellaini's first touch...













*gets coat

I would thank you not to besmirch our Lord and saviour Fellaini with such a trivial question.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

if carrick has a "weak first touch" id like to hear your opinion on Fellaini's first touch...

Not the same situation, Felliani's first touch is usually with his head.