Sinn Féin received €12million in donations from US

Lockstep

Fairly interesting stuff: SF received large donations over the last two decades from a variety of sources, from unions to celebrities (Martin Sheen and Viggo Mortenson)

Source

cerastes

I dont get it?
whats the point you are making?

NomadicGray

Aragorn still fighting the good fight then

mikom

Lockstep wrote: »

Fairly interesting stuff: SF received large donations over the last two decades from a variety of sources, from unions to celebrities (Martin Sheen and Viggo Mortenson)

Source

*Insert Viggo Mortenson/Sinn Féin "History of Violence" comment here.

maccored

fair dues to them. better than taking money off vested interests in order to politically pander to them.

Iwasfrozen

maccored wrote: »

fair dues to them. better than taking money off vested interests in order to politically pander to them.

Yeah trade unions are well known for offering donations to political parties without looking for anything in return.

Good on SF, one more reason not to vote for them.

maccored

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Yeah trade unions are well known for offering donations to political parties without looking for anything in return.

Good on SF, one more reason not to vote for them.

american trade unions. fat lot of good SF can do to help them politically in ireland. barrel and scraping are two words that come to mind.

blackwhite

maccored wrote: »

american trade unions. fat lot of good SF can do to help them politically in ireland. barrel and scraping are two words that come to mind.

Unless of course SF were in power in Ireland, and decided to implement policies which made inward investment into Ireland unattractive, or even resulting US companies relocating activities back to the US.

MadDog76

Lockstep wrote: »

Fairly interesting stuff: SF received large donations over the last two decades from a variety of sources, from unions to celebrities (Martin Sheen and Viggo Mortenson)

Source

Bargain!!
It cost the British Government over 20 billion pounds to fund the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts ........

A left wing party milking right wing dollars, that's the point.

Karl Stein

It's over 20 years which would make it an average of €600,000 PA.

Iwasfrozen

maccored wrote: »

american trade unions. fat lot of good SF can do to help them politically in ireland. barrel and scraping are two words that come to mind.

The idea that American trade Unions could possibly have concealed objectives that are against the interests of the Irish people, particularly a country that is recipient of so much American FDI as Ireland, that coincides with hampering American investment and hurting free trade is clearly inconceivable to you. :rolleyes:

blackwhite wrote: »

Unless of course SF were in power in Ireland, and decided to implement policies which made inward investment into Ireland unattractive, or even resulting US companies relocating activities back to the US.

SF hamper inward investment? Surely American lobbyists wouldn't be so underhanded?! :eek:

My name is URL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The idea that American trade Unions could possibly have concealed objectives that are against the interests of the Irish people, particularly a country that is recipient of so much American FDI as Ireland, that coincides with hampering American investment and hurting free trade is clearly inconceivable to you. :rolleyes:

<

---

Conspiracy Theory forum is that way

Seriously.. that's some of the most deluded tripe I've ever read. You seriously think that trade unions donating money to a left-leaning party is some sort of long-con, designed to hurt Ireland?

What would you say Chuck Feeney's reason for donating are, or Anjelica Huston's? Some joint billionaire / Hollywood plot designed to topple us?

Mod: No personal abuse

yipeeeee

Do they have to pay tax on donations?

I presume so

Iwasfrozen

My name is URL wrote: »

Seriously.. that's some of the most deluded tripe I've ever read. You seriously think that trade unions donating money to a left-leaning party is some sort of long-con, designed to hurt Ireland?

Nope, but the idea of trade unions promoting trade barriers is neither new nor conspiratorial.

My name is URL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Nope, but the idea of trade unions promoting trade barriers is neither new nor conspiratorial.

Where have they ever attempted or succeeded in promoting trade barriers between the US and Ireland?

Do you have a single link to back up what you are saying?

You're talking complete nonsense.

This is just from a few weeks ago - far from promoting trade barriers

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/irish-and-us-trade-unions-sign-historic-agreement-1.2081718

An Irish trade union has signed a historic agreement with one of America’s largest unions that will lead to training for Irish workers in additional skills that will help them secure new employment prospects.

In the first arrangement of its kind, the Technical Engineering and Electrical Union (TEEU) signed a federation agreement with the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices, which represents 370,000 craft workers in the US, Canada and Australia.

Under the agreement, the TEEU will bring US trainers to Ireland to teach workers new skills under a “train the trainers” programme.

cisk wrote: »

A left wing party milking right wing dollars, that's the point.

Which of the individuals or organisations that donated would you consider to be 'right-wing'?

Iwasfrozen

My name is URL wrote: »

Where have they ever attempted or succeeded in promoting trade barriers between the US and Ireland?

Who is they?

Do you have a single link to back up what you are saying?

What would you like a link to?

My name is URL

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who is they?

The US based trade unions that you claim want to hurt trade or relations between the US and Ireland

What would you like a link to?

Evidence of the above. In your own time.

http://i.imgur.com/PqZdNPw.jpg

Iwasfrozen

My name is URL wrote: »

The US based trade unions that you claim want to hurt trade or relations between the US and Ireland



Evidence of the above. In your own time.

I don't appreciate your tone, take a breath and ask yourself why you're asking me to provide proof for something I haven't claimed. Maybe you can come up with an answer because I sure as hell can't.

expectationlost

donations to SF NI and SF have to be distinguished to some extent because Irish political parties can't receive donations from foreigners but of course they are connected, I wonder how though

an old Elaine Byrne blog says SF NI getting foreign donantions and then donating to Sinn Fein Ireland TDs http://elaine.ie/2009/05/22/worrying-fall-in-disclosure-of-funding-by-parties/

but I looked at the SIPO records and I don't see that happening, 2011 atleast, I see SF TDs Irl giving money to they party, but thats their receive TDs pay take Average Industrial Wage* and donate rest to constituency scheme.

*tax?

Nodin

cisk wrote: »

A left wing party milking right wing dollars, that's the point.

There are left wing people in America too, you know.

Nodin

Lockstep wrote: »

Fairly interesting stuff: SF received large donations over the last two decades from a variety of sources, from unions to celebrities (Martin Sheen and Viggo Mortenson)

Source

"and?" is about all I can say to this.

johnnyskeleton

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Who is they?


What would you like a link to?

Mod: This is not the cafe, if you dont want to debate issues seriously you will be banned. You made an assertion then pretended that you did not know what assertion you had made

Crooked Jack

cerastes wrote: »

I dont get it?
whats the point you are making?

Of course, the point is to try and vaguely discredit SF in some way, for example, the Indo headline to this story was "From Working Class To First Class." An attempt to make an accusation that SF members, particularly Adams, are in some way benefiting personally from all this. Expect more of this rubbish as elections near.
The Irish Times followed this story up with this gem.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-adams-annoyed-at-d%C3%A1il-decibel-levels-1.2126509

A sneering rant about Adams and SF because they dont get involved in playground shouting matches in the Dail, have the temerity to demand that the government listens to their questions and concerns and prefer to speak through the chair.

Oh, and Adams "glares." ohhhh, menacing

maccored

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Of course, the point is to try and vaguely discredit SF in some way, for example, the Indo headline to this story was "From Working Class To First Class." An attempt to make an accusation that SF members, particularly Adams, are in some way benefiting personally from all this. Expect more of this rubbish as elections near.
The Irish Times followed this story up with this gem.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-adams-annoyed-at-d%C3%A1il-decibel-levels-1.2126509

A sneering rant about Adams and SF because they dont get involved in playground shouting matches in the Dail, have the temerity to demand that the government listens to their questions and concerns and prefer to speak through the chair.

Oh, and Adams "glares." ohhhh, menacing

... and on the flipside they claim SF is economically illiterate. wish people would make up their minds since we have an apparently economically illiterate party who has managed to fund themselves much better than the opposition without using any brown envelopes.

jank

It is a valid point to bring up by the OP. If one sees no problem with foreign money stemming in to help a political party and their causes then they should see no problem seeing foreign money helping out the pro-life campaign in donations to Youth Defence or Iona. I seem to clearly hear criticism of the latter by many supporters of Sinn Fein. Will they criticise this?

BoJack Horseman

maccored wrote: »

... and on the flipside they claim SF is economically illiterate. wish people would make up their minds since we have an apparently economically illiterate party who has managed to fund themselves much better than the opposition without using any brown envelopes.

Trying to draw equilavance between getting a tonne of cash from the good old' boys stateside with macroeconomic competence is very veeeery weak!

Crooked Jack

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Trying to draw equilavance between getting a tonne of cash from the good old' boys stateside with macroeconomic competence is very veeeery weak!

I believe he was highlighting the self-contradictory arguments people throw out at sinn fein when they're frantically trying to smear them.
For example, just yesterday, in the same thread on a Belfast Telegraph post, one guy accused SF of being marxist, and later, fascist.

Sierra Oscar

maccored wrote: »

fair dues to them. better than taking money off vested interests in order to politically pander to them.

Sinn Féin met with US business people to discuss economic policy

Sinn Féin’s rising popularity prompted a group of American businessman, including some with Wall Street backgrounds, to travel to Dublin in January of this year to find out more about the party’s economic plans and how they could form future government policy given the party’s recent performances in the polls.

In fairness it is pretty clear for all to see that Sinn Féin's economic policies have become far more 'moderate' in recent years. That's fine, but it does beg the question as to who exactly steers policy in SF?

You can be sure that donors have some level of influence.

conorh91

I think we have gone too far in impeding the funding of political parties. Although I wouldn't necessarily agree with the model the US has adapted, I think our funding limits for political parties (€2,500) and for individual politicians (€1,000) are too low.

The result is that Fine Gael received total private donations to the party of €112,000 in the last year for which records are available, but received over 20 times that amount from the taxpayer, bringing up its funding to €2.8 million.

Not only are these restrictions on "private" (publicly reported) donations an impediment to political free speech, they also make the political parties too dependent on the State.

Either we need to change the way in which funding is provided, or increase the limits on donations, because the current regime is too generous to established parties, and too repressive towards new and emerging political parties.

expectationlost

jank wrote: »

It is a valid point to bring up by the OP. If one sees no problem with foreign money stemming in to help a political party and their causes then they should see no problem seeing foreign money helping out the pro-life campaign in donations to Youth Defence or Iona. I seem to clearly hear criticism of the latter by many supporters of Sinn Fein. Will they criticise this?

if the record keeping was as good...

maccored

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Sinn Féin met with US business people to discuss economic policy



In fairness it is pretty clear for all to see that Sinn Féin's economic policies have become far more 'moderate' in recent years. That's fine, but it does beg the question as to who exactly steers policy in SF?

You can be sure that donors have some level of influence.

"The focus of the meeting was investment, job creation and economic issues."

I dont see where the problem is with trying to get investment and job creation. how is that pandering to a union?

maccored

jank wrote: »

It is a valid point to bring up by the OP. If one sees no problem with foreign money stemming in to help a political party and their causes then they should see no problem seeing foreign money helping out the pro-life campaign in donations to Youth Defence or Iona. I seem to clearly hear criticism of the latter by many supporters of Sinn Fein. Will they criticise this?

You should ask those 'many supporters of Sinn Fein' you talk of. Personally I dont care if Youth Defence or Iona look for foreign money or not.

My name is URL

jank wrote: »

It is a valid point to bring up by the OP. If one sees no problem with foreign money stemming in to help a political party and their causes then they should see no problem seeing foreign money helping out the pro-life campaign in donations to Youth Defence or Iona. I seem to clearly hear criticism of the latter by many supporters of Sinn Fein. Will they criticise this?

I'd say there's a difference between donations to a political party in general and outside funding and support of lobbyists for specific campaigns and legislative changes myself but whatever.

Both sides in the abortion debate receive money from foreign parties. George Soros and Chuck Feeney have allegedly both financially supported the pro-choice side here.

Chips Lovell

If FF had gotten millions in donations from banks and other big businesses in Germany, would SF supporters have been cool with it?

maccored

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

If FF had gotten millions in donations from banks and other big businesses in Germany, would SF supporters have been cool with it?

sf get donations from germany?

Sierra Oscar

maccored wrote: »

"The focus of the meeting was investment, job creation and economic issues."

I dont see where the problem is with trying to get investment and job creation. how is that pandering to a union?

That's according to a Sinn Féin spokesperson as the article points out.

The Irish Times takes a more nuanced approach and suggests donors have taken issue with SF economic policies in recent years, and on foot of that SF's economic policies are becoming more moderate.

maccored

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That's according to a Sinn Féin spokesperson as the article points out.

i still dont see how meeting americans in ireland means american trade unions are benefiting from decisions SF made in ireland.

Geuze

yipeeeee wrote: »

Do they have to pay tax on donations?

I presume so

Income tax is paid on income.

Is a donation rec'd by a pol party classified as income?

Is a pol party a company?

View

maccored wrote: »

an apparently economically illiterate party who has managed to fund themselves much better than the opposition without using any brown envelopes.

Ah, so donations to other political party use "brown envelopes" whereas donations to SF use "white envelopes" and therefore the monies the SF envelopes contain are "morally superior" to the monies the other parties receive?

Gavster1982

my answer would be: SO?

theyre entitled to get money from wherever and whoever...as long as its maid public...anyone upset is just jealous....

expectationlost

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

If FF had gotten millions in donations from banks and other big businesses in Germany, would SF supporters have been cool with it?

depends how much you think SF in Gov in NI had influence over UK banking regulation policies

Arsemageddon

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Of course, the point is to try and vaguely
discredit SF in some way, for example, the Indo headline to this story was "From Working Class To First Class." An attempt to make an accusation that SF members, particularly Adams, are in some way benefiting personally from all this. Expect more of this rubbish as elections near.

Not every story about SF can de dismissed as bias by the media. While the Jim Cusack article you mention is mostly guff, issues such as Gerry Adams' opting for private healthcare is very much fair game. As SF rise in the polls there is going to be a commensurate increase in media investigation of their funding and organisation. Same thing happened to Sean Gallagher during the last presidential election, SF were more than happy to join in.

I'll put it this way - if you want to play senior hurling you have to be prepared to take a few slaps.

The Irish Times followed this story up with this gem.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/miriam-lord-adams-annoyed-at-d%C3%A1il-decibel-levels-1.2126509


A sneering rant about Adams and SF because they dont get involved in playground shouting matches in the Dail, have the temerity to demand that the government listens to their questions and concerns and prefer to speak through the chair.

Oh, and Adams "glares." ohhhh, menacing

That's a pretty standard piece by Miriam Lord, hardly a hatchet job. She treats everyone in the Dail the same way. SF tactics and demeanour in the house are not above criticism.

As for the overall issue of SF receiving donations from the US I don't see why SF supporters are being so defensive. On the surface it does appear to be legal for the party to receive donations in Northern Ireland and it offers a legitimate explanation as to where their funding comes from. Surely this is better than the repeated accusations that it comes from criminal activity?

Sierra Oscar

Arsemageddon wrote: »

As for the overall issue of SF receiving donations from the US I don't see why SF supporters are being so defensive. On the surface it does appear to be legal for the party to receive donations in Northern Ireland and it offers a legitimate explanation as to where their funding comes from. Surely this is better than the repeated accusations that it comes from criminal activity?

They might not be too comfortable with the way this story is heading - i.e. hints that money raised for use in Northern Ireland is being spent elsewhere which could be illegal.

Crooked Jack

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Not every story about SF can de dismissed as bias by the media. While the Jim Cusack article you mention is mostly guff, issues such as Gerry Adams' opting for private healthcare is very much fair game. As SF rise in the polls there is going to be a commensurate increase in media investigation of their funding and organisation. Same thing happened to Sean Gallagher during the last presidential election, SF were more than happy to join in.

I'll put it this way - if you want to play senior hurling you have to be prepared to take a few slaps.

Certainly the increased profile of the party brings increased scrutiny. That's all fair game. But articles like this are clearly driven by the paper's own agenda. There is absolutely nothing untoward in any of the money raised but these papers have plastered this non-story all over the place in an attempt to, at best, quietly suggest there is, at worst, mislead people into thinking that is what the article is about.

Arsemageddon wrote: »

That's a pretty standard piece by Miriam Lord, hardly a hatchet job. She treats everyone in the Dail the same way.

It's a complete hatchet job. Again, taking a non-story like the fact that Adams doesnt shout across people (surely a good thing unless Im going absolutely mad) and like the above article, attempting to insinuate or suggest something else. The menacing glare etc...
Journalism in this country is fucked if this sort of sh!te isnt recognised for what it is.

Arsemageddon wrote: »

SF tactics and demeanour in the house are not above criticism.

Criticising the fact he doesnt get involved in across the floor squealing matches?? I mean, am I on acid or something

Arsemageddon wrote: »

As for the overall issue of SF receiving donations from the US I don't see why SF supporters are being so defensive. On the surface it does appear to be legal for the party to receive donations in Northern Ireland and it offers a legitimate explanation as to where their funding comes from. Surely this is better than the repeated accusations that it comes from criminal activity?

I cant speak for anyone else but Im certainly not being defensive as there is simply nothing to it. My issue is that a number of papers have clearly bandied together in an attempt to insinuate that there is something to it.
Like I said, however, I expect we'll see an awful lot more of this guff as the elections get closer.

As for Jim Cusack, I loathe him, not as a republican, not even as a south armagh native despite his relentless slurs on the area, but as a fellow journalist. he is just fucking awful

Crooked Jack

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They might not be too comfortable with the way this story is heading - i.e. hints that money raised for use in Northern Ireland is being spent elsewhere which could be illegal.

SEE! This was exactly the intention. If there was anything even slightly dodgy about this the IT and Indo would have been all over it. There wasnt, so they opted for this sly sort of insinuation and suggestion.

Arsemageddon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They might not be too comfortable with the way this story is heading - i.e. hints that money raised for use in Northern Ireland is being spent elsewhere which could be illegal.

For sure their definitely not happy about the way the story is heading. I just don't think it's acceptable that SF and their supporter dismiss every story about the party as media bias.

I'd tend to think that that what their at is probably just about legal, but it looks dodgy. I would expect the media to treat every political party in the same way.

Chips Lovell

It sounds like you've never read a Miriam Lord piece before.

Crooked Jack

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

It sounds like you've never read a Miriam Lord piece before.

Ah come on. Im all too aware of the crack pot columnists that infest papers in this country but putting all party politics aside, you dont think such a lengthy article railing against someone for not shouting was a new level of daft?

Lockstep

cerastes wrote: »

I dont get it?
whats the point you are making?

That Sinn Féin received large amounts of funding from abroad?

It's fairly fascinating that they've such a slick funding machine from abroad, especially compared to other parties (Labour supporters raised $127 when they tried it)

Arsemageddon

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Certainly the increased profile of the party brings increased scrutiny. That's all fair game. But articles like this are clearly driven by the paper's own agenda. There is absolutely nothing untoward in any of the money raised but these papers have plastered this non-story all over the place in an attempt to, at best, quietly suggest there is, at worst, mislead people into thinking that is what the article is about.

Foreign donations are illegal in the Republic. It's hardly a non-story. Voters in the Republic have a very low opinion of the trustworthiness of the political class. Stories about expenses and funding get voters backs up. An explanation is required from the party rather than a dismissal.

It's a complete hatchet job. Again, taking a non-story like the fact that Adams doesnt shout across people (surely a good thing unless Im going absolutely mad) and like the above article, attempting to insinuate or suggest something else. The menacing glare etc... Journalism in this country is fucked if this sort of sh!te isnt recognised for what it is.
Criticising the fact he doesnt get involved in across the floor squealing
matches?? I mean, am I on acid or something

You obviously haven't read many of Miriam Lord's columns.

I cant speak for anyone else but Im certainly not being defensive as there
is simply nothing to it. My issue is that a number of papers have clearly
bandied together in an attempt to insinuate that there is something to it.

Like I said, however, I expect we'll see an awful lot more of this guff as the
elections get closer.

You see a conspiracy based on a non-story. I see a balanced, well researched piece of investigative journalism. We will have to agree to disagree.

As for Jim Cusack, I loathe him, not as a republican, not even as a south armagh native despite his relentless slurs on the area, but as a fellow journalist. he is just fucking awful

Fair enough