Sinn Féin received €12million in donations from US

realdanbreen

cerastes wrote: »

I dont get it?
whats the point you are making?

That they are bought and paid for?

View

Crooked Jack wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing untoward in any of the money raised

That's an interesting claim. Do you have any actual proof to back it up?

Crooked Jack wrote: »

but these papers have plastered this non-story all over the place in an attempt to, at best, quietly suggest there is, at worst, mislead people into thinking that is what the article is about.

The receipt of large sums of monies by any political party is hardly a non-story.

Were a story to break tomorrow that FG or FF had just received comparable sums from, let's say, a property developer here in Ireland, SF would not claim that the newspaper that revealed the information was attempting to mislead people or that there was nothing untoward about the monies being received. Instead, they'd be the first to suggest that it was proof of it.

Crooked Jack

View wrote: »

That's an interesting claim. Do you have any actual proof to back it up?

So now the burden of proof lies on the person the claim is made against.
People on boards love to waffle about shinnernomics but seem oblivious to this ever creeping notion of anti-shinnerlaw.

View wrote: »

The receipt of large sums of monies by any political party is hardly a non-story.

Were a story to break tomorrow that FG or FF had just received comparable sums from, let's say, a property developer here in Ireland, SF would not claim that the newspaper that revealed the information was attempting to mislead people or that there was nothing untoward about the monies being received. Instead, they'd be the first to suggest that it was proof of it.

And now youre trying to draw a comparison between SF's open, transparent fundraising in the US over the past two decades with FF or FG getting money on the quiet from a property developer here.
Jesus Christ! Some people on here have lost the run of themselves altogether.

Godge

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Certainly the increased profile of the party brings increased scrutiny. That's all fair game. But articles like this are clearly driven by the paper's own agenda. There is absolutely nothing untoward in any of the money raised but these papers have plastered this non-story all over the place in an attempt to, at best, quietly suggest there is, at worst, mislead people into thinking that is what the article is about.

Of course there is something wrong with it. I have a big problem with international money of a significant size being used to back political parties in Ireland. If we let SF get millions from the US, what next? Some US Christian group pouring millions into the campaign against the same-sex referendum.

One thing to raise a few thousand euro from a dinner, another much more sinister thing is to have an Irish political party getting millions from abroad.

Arsemageddon

Godge wrote: »

Of course there is something wrong with it. I have a big problem with international money of a significant size being used to back political parties in Ireland. If we let SF get millions from the US, what next? Some US Christian group pouring millions into the campaign against the same-sex referendum.

One thing to raise a few thousand euro from a dinner, another much more sinister thing is to have an Irish political party getting millions from abroad.

What exactly is sinister about it?

Crooked Jack

Godge wrote: »

Of course there is something wrong with it. I have a big problem with international money of a significant size being used to back political parties in Ireland. If we let SF get millions from the US, what next? Some US Christian group pouring millions into the campaign against the same-sex referendum.

One thing to raise a few thousand euro from a dinner, another much more sinister thing is to have an Irish political party getting millions from abroad.

Over 20 years. All transparent and out in the open.
See what I mean, this was exactly the intent behind this whole thing.
Nothing untoward about it at all but write it in such a way and it allows those with an axe to grind against SF to make all sorts of baseless suggestions and insinuations.
Smear tactics 101. Thankfully, I credit (most of) the Irish people with having enough brains to see through it.

cerastes

realdanbreen wrote: »

That they are bought and paid for?

I didnt see that written in the post, just leave it up to the reader to come to that conclusion, kind of, insinuate without making an accusation.
But you think other parties or politicians here werent bought and paid for by money and interest that wont demand something more significant in return in a much more serious way? That much money has disappeared into individuals pockets.
What it says to me is that SF is fundraising abroad and this is somehow wrong, maybe people that view Ireland from abroad see a different situation, or diaspora that can see a connection with recent emigration and the state of the main parties mishandling of the situation over the last 20 years.

bertson

I'm sure the term "Fundraising" should not be mistaken for "Money Laundering" in this case?..Wonder how much of the Northern Bank £££££ ended up as 'donations'.

tipptom

Unbelievable,the first 5 pages of a non story from a supposedly quality Irish newspaper devoted to something that is on record in the USA in minute detailed supplied by SF over and above what is required.


All this preceded by numerous promotion articles from their columnist's about how labour and FG are getting a bad rap from the Irish voters to date.


This paper is turning in to a bigger rag than the Independant/SI with their innuendo and between the lines smears in their attempt to rig the next election in collusion with the mainstream party's.


SF has always been a big fundraising party in the US and $600k per year has never been unusual but it is reaching puppet state proportions now with an unbalanced press colluding with one party to subvert the next election towards that party.

Godge

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Over 20 years. All transparent and out in the open.
See what I mean, this was exactly the intent behind this whole thing.
Nothing untoward about it at all but write it in such a way and it allows those with an axe to grind against SF to make all sorts of baseless suggestions and insinuations.
Smear tactics 101. Thankfully, I credit (most of) the Irish people with having enough brains to see through it.

People outside Ireland should not be influencing domestic politics through contributions. End of.

Permabear

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ChicagoJoe

Permabear wrote: »

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Are you for real, it's by Jim Cusack of the Indo

realdanbreen

Permabear wrote: »

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Well according to McGuinness he was only in the IRA for a while as a young fella. Apparently he never killed or gave an order to have anyone killed. Adams OTOH wasn't even in the 'RA ! and was only wearing a black beret, gloves and dark glasses to keep in fashion! And to think there will be adults attending a SF convention who go along with this 'emperors new clothes' bullsh1t and will clap these two to the rafters.

cerastes

Godge wrote: »

People outside Ireland should not be influencing domestic politics through contributions. End of.

When is that allowed? is that the sole preserve of the monied elite here?
So say when someone who was forced to emigrate cant look back and say that same shower are still up to their old tricks, I think I'll throw a few quid to their opposition, and I dont mean the FF/FG duumvirate, or Lab, which I can only hope as a former Lab voter is terminally and substantially affected.
Besides, do you not think any Irish Govt has opposed money and influences from abroad if it suits their agenda? Do you mean if its not helping line their pockets or coming under their control?

IF SF makes any headway, FG/Lab will be up to their same old usual tactics, point at their opponents and highlight anything they see that might get or keep them a few votes, whatever they may have done right, it will be due to their own failures. As much as Im concerned about such a scenario, what do FG/Lab/FF expect, when they have mismanaged things so badly themselves.

tipptom

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I read that article yesterday,i Saw no report that money was being diverted to the republic.


As point of fact Mr Cullen says that no money is sent to SF but he receives a receipt and he pays the company the company for the services.


You wont see any journalist being allowed before the next election to dig around FGs much talked about secret donations.

Chips Lovell

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from today's news

Donations from rich fat cats to parties you don't support = Bad
Donations from rich fat cats to parties you do support = What's you're problem?

donvito99

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from today's news

Donations from rich fat cats to parties you don't support = Bad
Donations from rich fat cats to parties you do support = What's you're problem?

But rich fat cat business donors to a party who question the parties economic ideas = amateur hour.

The usual crowd is out protesting any scrutiny being levelled against SF.

tipptom

donvito99 wrote: »

But rich fat cat business donors to a party who question the parties economic ideas = amateur hour.

The usual crowd is out protesting any scrutiny being levelled against SF.

Please point out where the scrutinising needs to be on this story with facts and if you don't have these facts then et me know why did it merited the 5 front pages of what is supposedly the last bastion of quality newspapers in Ireland.

maccored

bertson wrote: »

I'm sure the term "Fundraising" should not be mistaken for "Money Laundering" in this case?..Wonder how much of the Northern Bank £££££ ended up as 'donations'.

god, back to this hogwash. keep scraping that barrel there boys. the more 'revelations' that surface about SF, the better the party seem to do.

golfball37

If the so called establishment parties who claim to be Republican want to raise money akin to SF perhaps they should stop ignoring the North Eastern part of the island thats currently part of the UK and set up a presence there?

Sounds to me like SF are funnelling money through NI which isn't illegal but is in the south. I reckon thats what grates most with the Eire establishment myself, the fact their all Ireland status is working to their advantage in this instance.

Chips Lovell

I'm sure it's that, yes.

tipptom

Arsemageddon wrote: »

For sure their definitely not happy about the way the story is heading. I just don't think it's acceptable that SF and their supporter dismiss every story about the party as media bias.

I'd tend to think that that what their at is probably just about legal, but it looks dodgy. I would expect the media to treat every political party in the same way.

Elaborate please, with facts that have any semblance of truth, not what you are hoping it would be.


Seems to be a lot of accusations and innuendo made on this thread when the usual suspects see SF being mentioned without a scintilla of evidence to back it up and I am sure if it was not SF that they were levelled at there would be warnings given to back the accusations up.

expectationlost

Godge wrote: »

People outside Ireland should not be influencing domestic politics through contributions. End of.

these are donations to SF NI

expectationlost

golfball37 wrote: »

If the so called establishment parties who claim to be Republican want to raise money akin to SF perhaps they should stop ignoring the North Eastern part of the island thats currently part of the UK and set up a presence there?

Sounds to me like SF are funnelling money through NI which isn't illegal but is in the south. I reckon thats what grates most with the Eire establishment myself, the fact their all Ireland status is working to their advantage in this instance.

how are they funnelling money I'd like to know?

Icepick

Their constant lies and whataboutism are of much bigger concern.

expectationlost

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

how are they funnelling money to Ireland I'd like to know?

expectationlost

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Foreign donations are illegal in the Republic. It's hardly a non-story. Voters in the Republic have a very low opinion of the trustworthiness of the political class. Stories about expenses and funding get voters backs up. An explanation is required from the party rather than a dismissal.

these foreign donations were't to SF in the Republic

tipptom

expectationlost wrote: »

these are donations to SF NI

Yep,a lot of people here don't even read the 5 page article but just see SF and decide to comment with innuendo and smears regardless of the facts.

tipptom

expectationlost wrote: »

how are they funnelling money to Ireland I'd like to know?

That's what I have asked them but they don't seem to want to answer their assertions of "Funnelling money to the republic",wonder why?

expectationlost

'UK ban on foreign donations over £500 was introduced in 2007' http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sdlp-drew-down-400-000-from-donation-to-establish-new-york-office-1.2128228 should this say £5000?

confused because in the spreadsheets http://www.loc.gov/law/help/campaign-finance/uk.php orgs seem to be giving up to £5000 https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2127194.1425534684!/menu/standard/file/Friends%20of%20Sinn%20Fein%20spreadsheet.xlsx

here are the UK rules http://www.loc.gov/law/help/campaign-finance/uk.php ??

jank

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from today's news

Donations from rich fat cats to parties you don't support = Bad
Donations from rich fat cats to parties you do support = What's you're problem?

Sums it up to be honest. Note when I mentioned Youth defines and Iona nobody aforementioned Sinn Fein Supporters were all fully silent about this comparison...
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

tipptom

jank wrote: »

Sums it up to be honest. Note when I mentioned Youth defines and Iona nobody aforementioned Sinn Fein Supporters were all fully silent about this comparison...
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander...

AHH, disappointed that your favourite rag could not come up with another smear lies and innuendo front page against SFs rise in the polls this Sunday but they have went with another quality piece about how hard done by the O Donnells are so that can be of some consolation to you.


Did you read the five page article,any receipts were paid for from the US to the company's who provided the services in NI but you carry ignoring that and pretending it went to the ROI.

jank

tipptom wrote: »

AHH, disappointed that your favourite rag could not come up with another smear lies and innuendo front page against SFs rise in the polls this Sunday but they have went with another quality piece about how hard done by the O Donnells are so that can be of some consolation to you.


Did you read the five page article,any receipts were paid for from the US to the company's who provided the services in NI but you carry ignoring that and pretending it went to the ROI.

Do you care to address the fundamental point and facts of the topic and not try and divert the questions to the journalist quality of the SINDO, a paper I have not bought or read for years at least since I left Ireland more that 6 years ago.

expectationlost

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Comment/Opinion/Foreign+friends%2C+loopholes+and+loot/id/72399b15-f863-4893-84d2-ee23781c8c38

Elaine Byrne follows up on this, MLAs are recorded as donating to the TDs from 2003 to 2009 but not since, although they could be donating up to €5,077 but don't have to disclose it, so money SF NI gets could be making its way to SF TDs, but MLAs also take the average industrial wage and could have the money to donate to SF TDs without the US money, although it obviously helps, and presumably they are donating to their own constituencies and party in NI as SF TDs do here.

see 2007 5,787.04 from 27 MLAs to SF http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/reports/annual-disclosures/disclosure-by-political-parties/2007-donation-statements/ 158,434.92

interesting stat on that page, Donations disclosed as a % of election expenses 2007 SF 33% FG 6.8% seems closer to zero per cent for all in 2011 http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/reports/annual-disclosures/disclosure-by-political-parties/2011-donation-statements/

this not having details of donations problem applies to all parties in Ireland, Political parties spent 9.28 million in 2011, only 30,997 donations disclosed http://bit.ly/1DQ7s1m

LeeMajors

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

I think we've all learned a valuable lesson from today's news

Donations from rich fat cats to parties you don't support = Bad
Donations from rich fat cats to parties you do support = What's you're problem?

Donations from rich fat cats to parties in government who can offer phone licenses, debt writedowns and meter contracts = Bad.

Donations from rich fat cats to a party in opposition and who have never been in power in the 26 counties = ????

LeeMajors

tipptom wrote: »

AHH, disappointed that your favourite rag could not come up with another smear lies and innuendo front page against SFs rise in the polls this Sunday but they have went with another quality piece about how hard done by the O Donnells are so that can be of some consolation to you.


Did you read the five page article,any receipts were paid for from the US to the company's who provided the services in NI but you carry ignoring that and pretending it went to the ROI.

I see cusack in the spindo today spitting fire because Monaghan co co won't give him any information on alleged water pollution in that county that he can use in his warped and unrelenting attacks on Sinn Fein.

The original boy (gobsh1te) who cried wolf!

Godge

expectationlost wrote: »

these are donations to SF NI

It is funny how quickly SF can enforce partition when they need to.

Is it an All-Ireland party split in two for financing purposes?

Godge

My name is URL wrote: »

Is that a serious question?

Can't tell if you're genuinely that stupid or just posting for effect

And people wonder why the 'Café' needs to exist :rolleyes:

Of course it wasn't a serious question. I was pointing out the usefulness of partition to SF on this occasion and how much their defenders on here welcome that partition when it comes to explaining their fundraising abroad.

Nodin

Godge wrote: »

Of course it wasn't a serious question. I was pointing out the usefulness of partition to SF on this occasion and how much their defenders on here welcome that partition when it comes to explaining their fundraising abroad.

That post makes no sense whatsoever.

michael999999

maccored wrote: »

fair dues to them. better than taking money off vested interests in order to politically pander to them.

Don't mention Denis o Brien and the awarding of mobile phone licences for a wad of money to the fine Gael party.

Ssshhhhh

Good loser

When SF get in power after the next election what will they do about those in arrears for LPT and Water Charges? As they are going to abolish both. They will then have to cost this payback in their 'costed budgets' (so called).

Surely the fairest thing would be to give back to those that paid what they have paid in? I mean fair to the law abiding. Otherwise the law breakers would be advantaged.

Also when they abolish Water Charges will they do so for all citizens? Will it be free water for all householders?

expectationlost

Godge wrote: »

Of course it wasn't a serious question. I was pointing out the usefulness of partition to SF on this occasion and how much their defenders on here welcome that partition when it comes to explaining their fundraising abroad.

im not defending them Im trying to be precise in what were talkinag about so we can see where the problem is and I don't make the laws in either country, SF only make them in one, in the country we're not in, occasionally people hear about SF getting foreign donations and think they are talking about Ireland when its NI

LeeMajors

Good loser wrote: »

When SF get in power after the next election what will they do about those in arrears for LPT and Water Charges? As they are going to abolish both. They will then have to cost this payback in their 'costed budgets' (so called).

Surely the fairest thing would be to give back to those that paid what they have paid in? I mean fair to the law abiding. Otherwise the law breakers would be advantaged.

What laws are broken by not paying a utility bill?

expectationlost

was looking to see what donations have been delcared in the North

2012

the Electoral Commission office in Belfast said last week that it cannot, under law, disclose any details of donors to political parties, including Sinn Fein.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/loophole-allows-sf-to-keep-1m-us-donors-secret-26848042.html

the donations website is hard to use https://pefonline.electoralcommission.org.uk/search/searchintro.aspx not finding Sinn Fein, because its not there?

ah it changed in 2014
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/political-funding-rules-seem-strict-but-parties-raise-millions-of-euro-under-the-radar-1.2128216

Generally in the UK, any donation with a value above £7,500 must be declared.

However, an exception was made for Northern Ireland in 2007 when the requirement to disclose the identity of donors was relaxed. The reason was that such donors, once identified, might be the subject of intimidation and threat. It meant there was no transparency about political donations in the jurisdiction.

A change in the law in 2014 has reintroduced the rule where those making donations above £7,500 in a single year must be identified.

Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2014/13/section/1/enacted

when will we see NI donations declarations

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/donations-and-loans-to-political-parties

they may go back in time and publish amounts and not identities, that be useful for seeing if amounts change under new rules http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/164859/NI-donations-loans-factsheet.pdf

LeeMajors

expectationlost wrote: »

im not defending them and I don't make the laws in either country, there jsut occasionaly people here about SF getting money and think they are talking about Ireland and not NI

As an all-Ireland political party they're well within their rights to claim expenses and to fundraise according to the laws of both jurisdictions.

The partitionists on here don't understand that.

joe912

It seems that the other parties are jealous of sinn feins inward investment

Godge

LeeMajors wrote: »

What laws are broken by not paying a utility bill?

Water Services Acts.

Godge

LeeMajors wrote: »

As an all-Ireland political party they're well within their rights to claim expenses and to fundraise according to the laws of both jurisdictions.

The partitionists on here don't understand that.

Yes, partition comes in handy for them.

If one way of fundraising isn't possible in one jurisdiction, then just attribute it to the other jurisdiction and vice versa.

Am I the only one worried about the potential for the malign influence on domestic politics of foreign donors? If we allow it for SF, why can't we allow rich American anti-abortion groups to fund referenda campaigns against abortion?

Some people on here are so desperate to protect their own party SF from all criticism that they don't see the bigger picture.

expectationlost

Godge wrote: »

Yes, partition comes in handy for them.

If one way of fundraising isn't possible in one jurisdiction, then just attribute it to the other jurisdiction and vice versa.

Am I the only one worried about the potential for the malign influence on domestic politics of foreign donors? If we allow it for SF, why can't we allow rich American anti-abortion groups to fund referenda campaigns against abortion?

Some people on here are so desperate to protect their own party SF from all criticism that they don't see the bigger picture.

foreign donations to political parties are banned here, its not allowed.

LeeMajors

Godge wrote: »

Water Services Acts.

What's the sanction for breaking this so called law?