Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

Options
1…1112141617…57

Comments

  • Options
    #392
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I didnt realise it wasnt a yes or no question.

    Do they provide a service where they will print wedding invitations? Plain old invitations, nothing involving pictures of dead children or penis pop ups.

    I'm sure they do Print those things for Religious ceremonies yes. Not sure on Civil partnerships and all that. May have to ask the printer. May be against their Religious views.


  • Options
    #393
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,279 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Kalman wrote: »
    Because in my time the word "gay" used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", happy.

    It has now been corrupted to suit others.

    Language evolves all the time


  • Options
    #394
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I'm sure they do Print those things for Religious ceremonies yes. Not sure on Civil partnerships and all that. May have to ask the printer. May be against their Religious views.

    Well if they will provide Mr and Mrs X with the service but not Mr and Mr X for the exact same service then they are in fact discriminating against them. You can argue that they can be as racist or homophobic as they like but it doesnt change that they are discriminating based on gender or sexual orientation.

    Just because a person thinks its ok to treat others as lesser doesnt make it not discrimination.


  • Options
    #395
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Well if they will provide Mr and Mrs X with the service but not Mr and Mr X for the exact same service then they are in fact discriminating against them. You can argue that they can be as racist or homophobic as they like but it doesnt change that they are discriminating based on gender or sexual orientation.

    Just because a person thinks its ok to treat others as lesser doesnt make it not discrimination.

    What service ? Civil partnership or Marriage in a Religious ceremony ? Has the owner refused to print Religious related paraphernalia ? Thought it was for a Civil partnership.

    Yes it looks like splitting hairs, but the owner has already said he would not print porn for example. Or anything against his Religious beliefs.


  • Options
    #396
    L.Quinn
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭L.Quinn


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I have a sneaking suspicion that if this was the Flavour of the Month Religion, Printing their stuff for years and only refusing to print this. The "That is their Right" lads would be out in force.

    I assume you're (snidely) referring to Islam. No, followers of Islam don't get a free pass on discrimination against LGBT Persons. No one in their right mind would defend such actions.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #397
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    What service ? Civil partnership or Marriage in a Religious ceremony ? Has the owner refused to print Religious related paraphernalia ? Thought it was for a Civil partnership.

    Yes it looks like splitting hairs, but the owner has already said he would not print porn for example. Or anything against his Religious beliefs.

    Does that all of a sudden make it not discrimination?

    I know people think "discrimination is bad, only bad people discriminate, Im not bad so I dont discriminate, I have religious beliefs" but it doesnt stop it being discrimination.
    L.Quinn wrote: »
    I assume you're (snidely) referring to Islam. No, followers of Islam don't get a free pass on discrimination against LGBT Persons. No one in their right mind would defend such actions.

    If it was Islam we would have had a lot more people claiming that this is a progressive society where people are equal, not a place for your backwards religion.


  • Options
    #398
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    The guy hounded out of business last year would have printed them no bother


    “I am not homophobic, I have employed gay people in my business and I have never refused to print invitations for civil ceremonies.”

    http://www.thejournal.ie/daintree-paper-gay-marriage-row-1113187-Oct2013/

    What does the law matter anyway?

    http://www.thejournal.ie/daintree-same-sex-1107532-Sep2013/

    We put it there because we feel consumers who are gay or lesbian have a right to know about who they are spending their money with,” he said. “The owner of Daintree has every legal right not to stock that merchandise, he’s not actively discriminating under the law I don’t think – to refuse service would be different – but we have the right to point out businesses that we believe are discriminating against LGBT people.”


  • Options
    #399
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    gozunda wrote: »
    Good - you've stopped screaming. They must be working :)

    I would seriously suggest you try and think about the issues raised in this thread. I mean really think - about the implications of leaving bigots to run around and discriminate against anyone they like including yourself, your friends, your family - because they can could in your little world - and they wouldn't need any excuse ...

    If you think you are a bigot, well who am I to say otherwise?

    These "bigots" are going to rule the world and exterminate everybody they don't like .......... from their little print shop in Drogheda :rolleyes:

    The Nazi Party they ain't ..........


  • Options
    #400
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The printer didn't break the law ...........
    It would strongly appear to be a breach of the Equal Status Act.

    5. —(1) A person shall not discriminate in disposing of goods to the public generally or a section of the public or in providing a service, whether the disposal or provision is for consideration or otherwise and whether the service provided can be availed of only by a section of the public.


    3. —(1) For the purposes of this Act, discrimination shall be taken to occur where—

    (a) on any of the grounds specified in subsection (2) (in this Act referred to as “the discriminatory grounds”) which exists at present or previously existed but no longer exists or may exist in the future, or which is imputed to the person concerned, a person is treated less favourably than another person is, has been or would be treated,


    (2) As between any two persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are:

    [...]
    (b) that they are of different civil status (the “civil status ground”),

    (d) that they are of different sexual orientation (the “sexual orientation ground”), [...]

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #401
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0305/684830-wedding-invitations-beulah-print/
    He said Mr Tuite told him that if the company was given an image of a naked woman and asked to print it on a poster, that they would refuse to do that as well.

    "How offensive that they are linking a wedding invitation to a pornographic image. I couldn't get over it.

    Well, as a photographer, I am offended that Mr Brennan would consider a nude phototograph to be automatically pornographic.

    I guess even gay people can be prejudiced :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #402
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I don't know .......... however even if the printer decides that he won't do business with homosexuals or ginger people or people from Cork then that is his right ......... why should an individual be forced to run his/her business based on your opinion?

    It's not about opinions. It's about removing discrimination so everyone has equal access to goods and services.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #403
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Exactly .......... and those same legal rights apply to the printer in question ........ keep in mind that he didn't actually do anything illegal by refusing to print what he found to be questionable material.
    You keep claiming this. Clearly you are unfamiliar with the Equal Status Acts.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #404
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    It's not about opinions. It's about removing discrimination so everyone has equal access to goods and services.

    I'm sure then people will be calling the Gay/Lesbian only Friendly places and reminding them of this fact ?


  • Options
    #405
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    And those anti-discrimination laws don't apply in this case

    Why?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #406
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Kalman wrote: »
    I don't agree with the usage of the word gay. We are referring to homosexuals.

    So don't use the word Gay then ......... :confused:


  • Options
    #407
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    So it's a case of "that is illegal!!" .......... "no it's not" .......... "oh ......... well it should be because then the law would fall in line with my own personal opinions and beliefs" ........... thankfully the real world doesn't work like that ....... yet.

    You keep making statements with nothing to back them up

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #408
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Kalman wrote: »
    Because in my time the word "gay" used to refer to feelings of being "carefree", happy.

    It has now been corrupted to suit others.

    Surely there must still be a few carefree happy Gay people left in Ireland?


  • Options
    #409
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Read my posts, I've already stated that I believe it is ......... but that's only in my own personal opinion.

    However another poster made a relevant point here ......... if a heterosexual married man with children born in wedlock asked this printer to print the material then in all likelihood the printer would still have refused to print the invitations ....... so the printer not be discriminating against the individual (gay or straight) but rather the material itself ......... can one discriminate against inanimate objects?

    If the heterosexual man is imputed to be gay then yes thats still discrimination under the equal status acts

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #410
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Ah .......... but the printer did not discriminate against a person ........ he refused to print objectionable (in his opinion) material ;)

    He refused to provide a service to a person based on the persons sexual orientation and civil status. 2 grounds for discrimination.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #411
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    He refused to provide a service to a person based on the persons sexual orientation and civil status. 2 grounds for discrimination.

    Would the Gay/lesbian Friendly places not be doing the exact same by trying to dissuade the wider community to access the facilities ? As that's what the implication is.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #412
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    bjork wrote: »
    The irish gay nudity social group, 2008, located in smithfield, dublin 7.
    are you genuine, sincere and gay? are you aged between 27 and 39, without many gay male friends? the join my social gay-only, nude social group in my house in smithfield.
    the social group offers gay nude afternoon tea and free meals once a week cooked by me. also gay dancing provided once a week only.



    http://www.queerid.com/topic.aspx?topicid=13280

    What am I missing out on? :D

    Give it a try if you're so curious, let us know how you get on.


  • Options
    #413
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    BreadnBuddha wrote: »
    You see, you're also missing the point. He's not discriminating on the basis of sexuality, race, creed etc.

    He's refusing to print an invitation to an event.* That's all he's doing. If a straight couple walked in and asked him to print invitations to a nude bodypainting event for singles and he felt it was contrary to his religious beliefs and to do so would compronise his own moralality, he'd be entitled to decline to provide the invites. Right?

    So, what's the difference here then?

    No You're missing the point.

    * indicates goods / service

    This is the relevant act

    [borrowed from JTPs post]
    Equal Status Act.

    5. —(1) A person shall not discriminate in disposing of goods to the public generally or a section of the public or in providing a service, whether the disposal or provision is for consideration or otherwise and whether the service provided can be availed of only by a section of the public.
    3. —(1) For the purposes of this Act, discrimination shall be taken to occur where—

    (a) on any of the grounds specified in subsection (2) (in this Act referred to as “the discriminatory grounds”) which exists at present or previously existed but no longer exists or may exist in the future, or which is imputed to the person concerned, a person is treated less favourably than another person is, has been or would be treated,


    (2) As between any two persons, the discriminatory grounds (and the descriptions of those grounds for the purposes of this Act) are:


    (b) that they are of different civil status (the “civil status ground”),

    (d) that they are of different sexual orientation (the “sexual orientation ground”),


  • Options
    #414
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Just use a different printers


  • Options
    #415
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Guess I'm not going to get an answer on the Gay/lesbian friendly question. I would be interested to know If people would have a problem with businesses advertising Heterosexual friendly. Would that not be discriminatory making people feel not welcome ?


  • Options
    #416
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    gufc21 wrote: »
    Just use a different printers

    That would make sense ..........


  • Options
    #417
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I'm sure then people will be calling the Gay/Lesbian only Friendly places and reminding them of this fact ?

    Why don't you call them yourself and give us a transcript of the conversation.


  • Options
    #418
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Why don't you call them yourself and give us a transcript of the conversation.

    I don't have a problem with it though, Playing devil's advocate. As no one else seems to want to grab this nettle.


  • Options
    #419
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Guess I'm not going to get an answer on the Gay/lesbian friendly question. I would be interested to know If people would have a problem with businesses advertising Heterosexual friendly. Would that not be discriminatory making people feel not welcome ?

    I've often wondered how this would be received ........... would a Straight Pride-like march be acceptable for example .......... or a White Power march similar to the Million Man March in the States .......... or a White Entertainment Channel on TV ........... me thinks not.


  • Options
    #420
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    I've often wondered how this would be received ........... would a Straight Pride-like march be acceptable for example .......... or a White Power march similar to the Million Man March in the States .......... or a White Entertainment Channel on TV ........... me thinks not.

    The fact that you can't see how dumb what you just wrote is, is actually kind of impressive.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #421
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    The fact that you can't see how dumb what you just wrote is, is actually kind of impressive.

    Thanks!! :D


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement