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Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

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    #1022
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Who are "they"?
    They was in reference to the laws! Incitement, hate speech etc.! They could just as easily be terms used to persecute minorities such as homosexuals! Hate speech and incitement to hatred could be viewed as speech in favour of homosexuality! It can just as easily be the other way, once the state starts enforcing beliefs on individuals.


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    #1023
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    So when can we expect the papers and social media to be calling for this Discrimination to stop immediately ? Or as I have a sneaking suspicion, Would be asked for them to have there day in court. And not to jump to conclusions in interpreting the law.

    Try to get in, go to the papers. If it is important to you.

    I am willing to bet it isn't though.


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    #1024
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    K4t wrote: »
    They was in reference to the laws! Incitement, hate speech etc.! They could just as easily be terms used to persecute minorities such as homosexuals! Hate speech and incitement to hatred could be viewed as speech in favour of homosexuality! It can just as easily be the other way, once the state starts enforcing beliefs on individuals.

    And could be applied to this case in relation to the Guys Religious views, The FB page and all that other stuff. Plenty of incitment against the guys views.


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    #1025
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Try to get in, go to the papers. If it is important to you.

    I am willing to bet it isn't though.

    Nah I don't have to, I have no problem with Gay/Friendly. Just pointing out the general Hypocrisy of this situation.


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    #1026
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    And could be applied to this case in relation to the Guys Religious views, The FB page and all that other stuff. Plenty of incitment against the guys views.
    Incitement of hatred against a person's views is not necessarily a bad thing, incitement of hatred against a person is. It's like the debate with Islam; hating Islam the religion is not a bad thing, hating muslims is.


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    #1027
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    bodice ripper wrote: »
    Try to get in, go to the papers. If it is important to you.

    I am willing to bet it isn't though.

    Why should they have to try to get it?

    The apartment advertisement in Spain made the Irish Independent after a 100 page thread on boards. The owner and all was tracked down.

    And nobody even tried to stay there, Someone saw it on line>Started a thread on boards and Irish Independent identified the owner the next day


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    #1028
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    bjork wrote: »
    Why should they have to try to get it?

    The apartment advertisement in Spain made the Irish Independent after a 100 page thread on boards. The owner and all was tracked down.

    And nobody even tried to stay there, Someone saw it on line>Started a thread on boards and Irish Independent identified the owner the next day

    Exactly, If it's the right hot button issue/group the Internet will stop at nothing in it's pursuit.


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    #1029
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yes. You presented an opinion that what happened was not illegal. Not a fact. Merely your opinion. You are interpreting the law to suit your opinion and point of view. Something you accused me of doing. Thats why it's so laughable.

    The mistake you made was you offered up "evidence" to prove your opinion is fact which ironically proved quite the opposite ......... *me laughing*


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    #1030
    bjork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭bjork


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Exactly, If it's the right hot button issue/group the Internet will stop at nothing in it's pursuit.

    I wonder will budget travel, The boilerhouse, the B&B in Castletownbere and the others named will be doorstepped and on the front of tomorrows papers?


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    #1031
    Specialun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,068 ✭✭✭Specialun


    I remember around 6 months ago myself and few mates were not let intochambers bar in cork..bounce told us it was gay bar, he saidit wasnt for us

    Can i hire the mob on this?


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    #1032
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    bjork wrote: »
    I wonder will budget travel, The boilerhouse, the B&B in Castletownbere and the others named will be doorstepped and on the front of tomorrows papers?

    I wont hold my breath, The hypocrisy these days is palpable.


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    #1033
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bjork wrote: »
    I wonder will budget travel, The boilerhouse, the B&B in Castletownbere and the others named will be doorstepped and on the front of tomorrows papers?

    No because those services/establishments have been lucky enough (so far) to have turned away potential customers for valid reasons and the potential customers have respected those reasons and acted accordingly, ie. respecting the wishes/beliefs of the proprietors who own the businesses even if they don't necessarily agree with the decision.


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    #1034
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    K4t wrote: »
    When the state decides it can force people to support certain beliefs, laws such as incitement and so on, they don't matter any more! Get it?



    No because that makes no sense. A wedding invitation is not "a belief" :rolleyes: The law as it stands is there to protect individuals rights. These laws already exist both the Equal Status Act and The Incitement to Hatred Act 1989. Both have been working very well to-date.


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    #1035
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Nomis21 wrote: »
    "They can't legally refuse to supply goods or services to a person because of their

    Gender: this means man, woman or transsexual"

    The gay sauna, The Boilerhouse, in Dublin, does not allow women to enter.

    Not even gay women.

    Are not they themselves discriminating on the basis of gender?

    (They don't allow transexuals either)

    This is because there are some exceptions to the legislation. Example
    It is NOT discrimination if a club

    is for a particular group of people - for example, a gay club*, a club for people with disabilities, a club for members of the travelling community, and so on

    Ref: Your Equal Status Rights Explained, P. 28, Equality Authority 2011 (easy to read version)

    http://www.equality.ie/Files/Your-Equal-Status-Rights-Explained-Easy-to-read-version-.pdf


    *This could be a club for either gay men or one for gay women.


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    #1036
    bodice ripper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭bodice ripper


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Nah I don't have to, I have no problem with Gay/Friendly. Just pointing out the general Hypocrisy of this situation.

    Well, perhaps going about your day to day life without being turned down for fairly everyday services does matter to some people. Plus the embarrassment and sheer annoyance of hearing some eejit tell you about his religious beliefs unsolicited.

    I personally wouldn't take any sort of legal action, but you can be certain I would be vocal in pointing out how unprofessional the business was.

    And I always have my suspicions about why some bible decrees seem more important than others. I am sure this guy will have printed flyers or similar for business that open on Sundays. That's fine though. But private event involving gays? That one is a problem. Quelle surprise.


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    #1037
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    gozunda wrote: »
    No because that makes no sense. A wedding invitation is not "a belief" :rolleyes: The law as it stands is there to protect individuals rights. These laws already exist both the Equal Status Act and The Incitement to Hatred Act 1989. Both have been working very well to-date.
    So how is a wedding invitation an individuals right?


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    #1038
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    gozunda wrote: »
    This is because there are some exceptions to the legislation. Example



    Ref: Your Equal Status Rights Explained, P. 28, Equality Authority 2011 (easy to read version)

    http://www.equality.ie/Files/Your-Equal-Status-Rights-Explained-Easy-to-read-version-.pdf


    *This could be a club for either gay men or one for gay women.

    I see so not being happy enough to use the law as intended, We have the case now were it's being said it's ok to Discriminate as it is allowed in some cases. Congratulations the argument has just lost all creditability.


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    #1039
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I'm glad I'm not writing on paper either, technology has come a long way in enabling a person with dyslexia to dictate lengthy diatribes, though at this point, bog roll may indeed be a more suitable medium
    .... (saving paper!)
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    And I have already explained to you that your ideas about Christianity are at best misguided. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by denying one of the most commonly accepted principles of Christianity. I'm not going to start quoting scriptures and bore the tits off everyone here, you'll simply have to accept that your ideas about Christianity don't jig with the printers religious beliefs.

    Well I could tell you the exact same thing because guess what - Homophobia IS NOT a 'basic principle' (your words) of Christ's teachings. I am perfectly capable of reading and interpreting the bible without having a priest or minister read it for me. I suggest you try it some time. The issue with the printers beliefs is that they are in that spectrum referred to as fundamentalist. And for your information I do know more on their particular belief system than what has been put up here but in the interest of privacy I am not going to publicise it.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    So now you're gone from "It wasn't obvious that the printers were religious" to "any evidence which points to the fact that they were religious is irrelevant!".

    You do like trying to twist what was said? Yes Beulah is an archaic reference and most of the general public have not been in the shop. So no they wouldn't know the printers were religious. And even if you were in the shop and some religious video was playing, there is no correlation between a TV and a fundamentalist approach to business.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.
    I think you should know, you've been swimming in it since the thread started.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    "Refusing a piece of paper", where do you come up with this stuff? You wonder then why half the time it's difficult for me to take you seriously. If you're not talking about refusing pieces of paper to gay black unmarried mothers, you're finagling over the minutae of flat screen tv's and your own interpretation of the Bible.

    Twisting what was said again. Tut tut. That's almost a sin you know.
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    There's no persecution complex here I assure you, unlike the stench of persecution complex off a salon owner who went looking to kick up a stink and incite hatred among the general public for a person with religious beliefs.

    There's that bad cop streak again we talked about . Well you are the one ranting about the predations of social media - all the while engaging in it. A bit duplicitous no?
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    What does it matter if the salon owner is or isn't a Christian? Is that some sort of justification you're offering to excuse his attitude and his behaviour towards another human being? I don't think you need religion to tell you how not to behave like an asshole.

    You said about him "Do unto others as..." That is a Christian reference. (- where's this treating everyone fairly routine you espoused earlier or does it apply just to others?)

    But yes I suppose it does matter to an extent - because ones persons version of Christianity informs them to discriminate against others while another may hold that such behaviour against Christs teachings . Unfortunately then there is human reaction to actual or perceived offence and there is the basis for conflict.
    Mr Jonathon Brennan (29), who had asked Beulah Print to print the invitations for him and his partner John Kierans (35), said: “I am a Catholic man, I have faith and the decision by Beulah Print has hurt me.”


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    #1040
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I see so not being happy enough to use the law as intended, We have the case now were it's being said it's ok to Discriminate as it is allowed in some cases. Congratulations the argument has just lost all creditability.

    That's the way the law was enacted and IS intended to work. Don't like it. => go lobby for change and stop whinging.


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    #1041
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    gozunda wrote: »
    That's the way the law was enacted and IS intended to work. Don't like it. => go lobby for change and stop whinging.

    Nah, Find it odd the compartmentalization people can use.

    In this case the outrage and cry's of Discrimination.

    Then out of the other side of the mouth "Well it's actually ok in some cases"

    I would have thought all Discrimination would be bad. But that's just me.


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    #1042
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    gozunda wrote: »
    This is because there are some exceptions to the legislation. Example
    Ref: Your Equal Status Rights Explained, P. 28, Equality Authority 2011 (easy to read version)
    *This could be a club for either gay men or one for gay women.
    Is the Boilerhouse a 'club' though? There's no membership fee, just an admission fee on the door. Nor do they serve alchohol.


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    #1043
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    This topic has TWO pages on the LGBT forum.

    I wonder if the 5 or 6 monkeys posting ad nauseam here will eventually create the entire works of Shakespeare?


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    #1044
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    StewartGriffin wrote: »
    This topic has TWO pages on the LGBT forum.

    I wonder if the 5 or 6 monkeys posting ad nauseam here will eventually create the entire works of Shakespeare?

    No but there is probably enough for a thesis at least ...


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    #1045
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    gozunda wrote: »
    No but there is probably enough for a thesis at least ...

    A thesis entitled utterly futile whataboutery, and you my friend, are the Professor.


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    #1046
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    StewartGriffin wrote: »
    A thesis entitled utterly futile whataboutery, and you my friend, are the Professor.


    Discussion never hurts but anyway
    You are not my friend but you are one of the monkies. Thanks ;)


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    #1047
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    gozunda wrote: »
    Discussion never hurts but anyway
    You are not my friend but you are the monkey. Thanks ;)

    Lets leave it at that then. ;)


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    #1048
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    And I have already explained to you that your ideas about Christianity are at best misguided. I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by denying one of the most commonly accepted principles of Christianity. I'm not going to start quoting scriptures and bore the tits off everyone here, you'll simply have to accept that your ideas about Christianity don't jig with the printers religious beliefs.

    You do realise that the "man should not lie with another man like man lies with a woman" thing comes from Leviticus and not from the New Testament right?


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    #1049
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The mistake you made was you offered up "evidence" to prove your opinion is fact which ironically proved quite the opposite ......... *me laughing*

    You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #1050
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Its all just a big misunderstanding. God was just saying its alright for a guy to lie to women but not to other men. Call the Vatican its sorted.


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    #1051
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    StewartGriffin wrote: »
    This topic has TWO pages on the LGBT forum.

    I wonder if the 5 or 6 monkeys posting ad nauseam here will eventually create the entire works of Shakespeare?

    They've nobody on that forum to give them any perspective unbiased views .........


This discussion has been closed.
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