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Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

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    #1262
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    reprise wrote: »
    The fact that they were happy to do business with the client for four years previous suggests the actual issue is the provision of a specific service, regardless of the client.

    And you believe the fact that they do not provide this service has no relation to him being gay? lol


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    #1263
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    reprise wrote: »
    The tragedy is that you can't but help wonder if promoting inequality isn't the point.

    So you're capable of reading into things when it suits I see Reprise.


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    #1264
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    Well, do any of you think these printers (who are so nice and not homophobic at all according to some people) would print a picture of two unmarried men holding hands? They could just be friends? I 100% believe they would not, as it is homosexuality that is their problem in general not just marriage, or gay marriage invites or whatever else anyone wants to say to try and defend bigotry


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    #1265
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    And you believe the fact that they do not provide this service has no relation to him being gay? lol

    I can't avail of the service and I am not gay....







    lol.......


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    #1266
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    So you're capable of reading into things when it suits I see Reprise.

    I said I would indulge the analogies even though I felt they were surplus to the debate.


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    #1267
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Well, do any of you think these printers (who are so nice and not homophobic at all according to some people) would print a picture of two unmarried men holding hands? They could just be friends? I 100% believe they would not, as it is homosexuality that is their problem in general not just marriage, or gay marriage invites or whatever else anyone wants to say to try and defend bigotry

    Is the real issue just not enough to go on anymore?


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    #1268
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Standard kind of Christian stuff, I have no idea what flavour of Christian they are either so could not possibly comment and interpret it.

    What does it matter what 'flavour' of Christian happen to consider themselves. They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse service to this customer. An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his sexuality was in issue at which point they terminated the relationship
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    On a side not interesting no reaction to the comment about it going before the courts.

    Apologies of course I await the judgement of the relevant authorities. That said like every other case before the law in our free society we are allowed to discuss it.


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    #1269
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Well, do any of you think these printers (who are so nice and not homophobic at all according to some people) would print a picture of two unmarried men holding hands? They could just be friends? I 100% believe they would not, as it is homosexuality that is their problem in general not just marriage, or gay marriage invites or whatever else anyone wants to say to try and defend bigotry

    If that were the case why did they serve him for 4 years?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1270
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    reprise wrote: »
    I can't avail of the service and I am not gay....

    And the meaning for discrimination is?


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    #1271
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    gozunda wrote: »
    But they obviously only want to do businness with strictly bible adhering individuals - that rules out most of the 'sinners' out there tbh ...
    gozunda wrote: »
    Where?

    You know what 'irony' is? It's like brassy but more so?

    You're still funny ...

    There ......... :p


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    #1272
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    What does it matter what 'flavour' of Christian happen to consider themselves. They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse service to this customer. An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his sexuality was in issue at which point they terminated the relationship



    Apologies of course I await the judgement of the relevant authorities. That said like every other case before the law in our free society we are allowed to discuss it.

    Terminated the relationship?
    How did that go?

    "Will you print these invites for me?"

    Printer - "it's not you it's me."

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1273
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Well, do any of you think these printers (who are so nice and not homophobic at all according to some people) would print a picture of two unmarried men holding hands? They could just be friends? I 100% believe they would not, as it is homosexuality that is their problem in general not just marriage, or gay marriage invites or whatever else anyone wants to say to try and defend bigotry

    The printer may be homophobic (I assume he is to be honest) but being homophobic in of itself is not illegal ........... but that's not the issue, the issue is has he done anything illegal by refusing to print this material ......... my opinion is he hasn't technically broken any laws.


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    #1274
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    There ......... :p

    There where?

    The dots are back :rolleyes:


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    #1275
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    reprise wrote: »
    Is the real issue just not enough to go on anymore?

    Wow seriously.
    So I own a print shop, I will print cards for the weddings of all races except black people. Black person comes in asking for cards for her wedding with her black husband, I say sorry Miss I only print cards for white and asian peoples weddings :( But I'm not a bigot! white people aren't allowed buy cards for a black persons wedding either. I have nothing against black people, i just won't print cards for their weddings is all sorry :) But by the way, black lady, I will still serve you, just won't make cards for your black wedding/


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    #1276
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    What does it matter what 'flavour' of Christian happen to consider themselves. They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse service to this customer. An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his sexuality was in issue at which point they terminated the relationship



    Apologies of course I await the judgement of the relevant authorities. That said like every other case before the law in our free society we are allowed to discuss it.

    "They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse service to this customer."
    Should read "They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse this particular service to any customer."

    "An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his sexuality was in issue at which point they terminated the relationship"
    Should read " An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his request for objectionable material was an issue at which point they politely declined"


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    #1277
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    gozunda wrote: »
    There where?

    The dots are back :rolleyes:

    They never left ..............


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    #1278
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    And the meaning for discrimination is?

    :rolleyes:


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    #1279
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    And the meaning for discrimination is?

    Is there a prize if I get the right answer?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1280
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    Wow seriously.
    So I own a print shop,
    I will print cards for the weddings of all races except black people.
    Black person comes in asking for cards for her wedding with her black husband, I say sorry Miss I only print cards for white and asian peoples weddings :( But I'm not a bigot! white people aren't allowed buy cards for a black persons wedding either. I have nothing against black people, i just won't print cards for their weddings is all sorry :) But by the way, black lady, I will still serve you, just won't make cards for your black wedding/

    More convoluted analogies because the real issue just won't suffice.

    You do realise that interracial weddings are entirely legal and to the best of my knowledge, entirely compatible with the catholic ethos?


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    #1281
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The printer may be homophobic (I assume he is to be honest) but being homophobic in of itself is not illegal ........... but that's not the issue, the issue is has he done anything illegal by refusing to print this material ......... my opinion is he hasn't technically broken any laws.

    Exactly, Also I find it a bit of an entitlement issue. A businesses is in no way obliged to give you custom. There are plenty of things legally they can refuse your business under. This lot could have just said “NO” with no reason and that would be legal.


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    #1282
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Exactly, Also I find it a bit of an entitlement issue. A businesses is in no way obliged to give you custom. There are plenty of things legally they can refuse your business under. This lot could have just said “NO” with no reason and that would be legal.

    Actually the law is very clear. You are entitled to service on the same terms as others without discrimination as to the 9 grounds. Of course there are plenty of reasons a business may legitimately refuse service, sexual orientation the alleged ground in this case is not however one of them. Though you have raised an interesting question why in light of the multiple means of refusing a customer the bakery chose to do so in this manner and allegedly in public.


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    #1283
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Actually the law is very clear. You are entitled to service on the same terms as others without discrimination as to the 9 grounds. Of course there are plenty of reasons a business may legitimately refuse service, sexual orientation the alleged ground in this case is not however one of them. Though you have raised an interesting question why in light of the multiple means of refusing a customer the bakery chose to do so in this manner and allegedly in public.

    The laws is quite clear, however the law relating to this particular incident is not so clear hence 80+ pages of discussion with differing opinions and points of view ............


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    #1284
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Actually the law is very clear. You are entitled to service on the same terms as others without discrimination as to the 9 grounds. Of course there are plenty of reasons a business may legitimately refuse service, sexual orientation the alleged ground in this case is not however one of them. Though you have raised an interesting question why in light of the multiple means of refusing a customer the bakery chose to do so in this manner and allegedly in public.

    Yes this is true, but Discrimination has to be proven to have happened. That's why we have laws. Or what would stop protected groups shouting discrimination in any case they were refused service legally.


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    #1285
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Actually the law is very clear. You are entitled to service on the same terms as others without discrimination as to the 9 grounds. Of course there are plenty of reasons a business may legitimately refuse service, sexual orientation the alleged ground in this case is not however one of them. Though you have raised an interesting question why in light of the multiple means of refusing a customer the bakery chose to do so in this manner and allegedly in public.

    I suggest you research the topic again. It has been clearly stated why they refused the service and also the manner it was divulged.


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    #1286
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    "They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse service to this customer."
    Should read "They have said openly that their religious beliefs meant that they had to refuse this particular service to any customer."

    Yes indeed which is argued to be in effect discrimination against this customer given his orientation.

    MadDog76 wrote: »
    "An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his sexuality was in issue at which point they terminated the relationship"
    Should read " An otherwise flawless customer whom they have had no problem serving previously until his request for objectionable material was an issue at which point they politely declined"

    Until his request for a service regularly offered to other customers only objectionable in this sense because the customers partner is a male. The accounts of the interaction were far less than polite if what I have read is true.


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    #1287
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes this is true, but Discrimination has to be proven to have happened. That's why we have laws. Or what would stop protected groups shouting discrimination in any case they were refused service legally.

    And in order to prove discrimination an allegation must be made, like everything else. That is what has happened here.


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    #1288
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Yes indeed which is argued to be in effect discrimination against this customer given his orientation.




    Until his request for a service regularly offered to other customers only objectionable in this sense because the customers partner is a male. The accounts of the interaction were far less than polite if what I have read is true.

    The printer does not offer this particular service to any customers regardless of their sexual orientation ..........


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    #1289
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    And in order to prove discrimination an allegation must be made, like everything else. That is what has happened here.

    Nope that's not what has happened here at all, First port of call was papers and social media for a witch hunt. Then comment's about may take a legal rout. That's what most level headed sensible people take exception to. No legal process just trial by social media, I have no idea why people don't think this is wrong.


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    #1290
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    And in order to prove discrimination an allegation must be made, like everything else. That is what has happened here.

    Interestingly the "allegation" was made on Social Media sites as opposed to the proper authorities initially ........... I wonder why?


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    #1291
    bb1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    reprise wrote: »
    More convoluted analogies because the real issue just won't suffice.

    You do realise that interracial weddings are entirely legal and to the best of my knowledge, entirely compatible with the catholic ethos?

    lol catholic ethos.
    If I'm in the KKK can I not print black wedding cards because of my KKK ethos? Thats not bigotry is it? And I can do it by law, but thats not discriminatory in your view.


This discussion has been closed.
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