Another Company Discriminates Against Gays

MadDog76

gozunda wrote: »

Of course you don't. It doesn't surprise anyone I'm sure...

Oh let me guess ............ I don't have the right to an opinion ......... as somebody else on here commented "it's only discrimination if you belong to one group as opposed to the other" :rolleyes:

StewartGriffin

MadDog76 wrote: »

I'm actually friends with people ......... some of them happen to be gay, a fact which neither I or they are hung up on as their sexuality is irrelevant in our friendship.

This is something I wonder about, and it might sound like a stupid question, but I think it could clear up some confusion.

Is there more to being Gay than just physical attraction to people of the same sex as yourself?

From one viewpoint, being Gay is just that, so what's all the fuss? Why do people bother coming out publicly to pronounce that they are Gay, it's like me pronouncing to my friends that I'm into xyz sex practices. They won't want to know. Why would they care?

The other viewpoint is that being Gay is a culture, a way of being, a community. Being Gay means you are different to non-gay people, not just because of sexual preference.

Not trying to be a smartass (for once), I ask this because I don't know.

BlaasForRafa

MadDog76 wrote: »

Oh let me guess ............ I don't have the right to an opinion ......... as somebody else on here commented "it's only discrimination if you belong to one group as opposed to the other" :rolleyes:

Of course you have the right to your opinion. And other posters have a right to call you on it.

Nothing against gays, but why can't we be tolerant of other people's religious beliefs?

There are plenty of other businesses to frequent, no need to play the victim card and make such a big deal about it.

I feel a business should have the right to serve who they want, even if we disagree with it.

MadDog76

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Of course you have the right to your opinion. And other posters have a right to call you on it.

"Call" me on it

Oh I see ....... "call" me on it implying that my opinion must be wrong because it differs from yours and therefore I need to be reprimanded

gozunda

Specialun wrote: »

No thats not correct actually...god are you seeing what you want just bcoz you want to be outraged

Yes it is correct! Btw I had actually read what the guy who ordered the invites said - but hey don't let facts get in your way!

Ps I'm not god ...

Cody montana

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against gays, but why can't we be tolerant of other people's religious beliefs?

There are plenty of other businesses to frequent, no need to play the victim card and make such a big deal about it.

I feel a business should have the right to serve who they want, even if we disagree with it.

Should we be tolerant of the religious beliefs of ISIS?

BlaasForRafa

MadDog76 wrote: »

Oh I see ....... "call" me on it implying that my opinion must be wrong because it differs from yours

That's the way discussion forums generally work.

Cody montana

Cody montana wrote: »

Should we be tolerant of the religious beliefs of ISIS?

Religious beliefs Yes.

It's the beheadings I'd have more of an issue with.

gozunda

MadDog76 wrote: »

Oh let me guess ............ I don't have the right to an opinion ......... as somebody else on here commented "it's only discrimination if you belong to one group as opposed to the other" :rolleyes:

You are of course welcome to any biased, bigoted opinion you like BUT you are not allowed to DISCRIMATE against others because of said views. Thankfully.

pickarooney

Egginacup wrote: »

Man!

If you're not condoning police racism in Ferguson you're condoning sexual bigotry in Drogheda.

One of David Mamet's better pieces.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nothing against gays,but why can't we be tolerant of other people's religious beliefs?

There are plenty of other businesses to frequent, no need to play the victim card and make such a big deal about it.

I feel a business should have the right to serve who they want, even if we disagree with it.

So if any business won't serve single mothers, coloured people, people of other religions or none, red haired people, disabled etc then - is that's all fair and dandy? What kind of obstacle course type society would we inhabit if we have to check the list of prohibited people printed on each door of the premiseses we wished to do business in. What if the premises is the only general store in the area and you lack transport or are disabled or blind ...

Specialun

gozunda wrote: »

Yes it is correct! Btw I had actually read what the guy who ordered the invites said - but hey don't let facts get in your way!

Ps I'm not god ...

No its not correct..its been pointed out to you that the company DID NOT discriminate because the guy is gay....the company had done printing work for them before..

He was against gay marriage/civil partnerships so he choose not to do the job

WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU NOT GETTING

Both companies are well known...its already being pointed out before that the printing company is very religeous and this is seen when you walk in the door

The printing company knew the guy was gay..he has done work for him before and been on his premises

FFS

MadDog76

gozunda wrote: »

You are of course welcome to any biased, bigoted opinion you like BUT you are not allowed to DISCRIMATE against others because of said views. Thankfully.

It turns out you are God!!!

gozunda

Specialun wrote: »

No its not correct..its been pointed out to you that the company DID NOT discriminate because the guy is gay....the company had done printing work for them before..

He was against gay marriage/civil partnerships so he choose not to do the job

WHAT PART OF THAT ARE YOU NOT GETTING

Both companies are well known...its already being pointed out before that the printing company is very religeous and this is seen when you walk in the door

The printing company knew the guy was gay..he has done work for him before and been on his premises

FFS

So because someone else said it - it is true - seriously? What about what customer has said. The customer did business with the printers previously without them knowing he was gay! Did the guy say "whoppeeee I'm gay - how do you do?" The bigoted printers only found out by the wording on the invites - they then discriminated against him by refusing him goods and service contrary to anti discrimination law. Don't like that? Tough.

MadDog76

gozunda wrote: »

So if any business won't serve single mothers, coloured people, people of other religions or none, red haired people, disabled etc then - is that's all fair and dandy? What kind of obstacle course type society would we inhabit if we have to check the list of prohibited people printed on each door of the premiseses we wished to do business in. What if the premises is the only general store in the area and you lack transport or are disabled or blind ...

It wouldn't be fair to force anybody to do business with anybody else that they choose not to ......... to force the printer to print the invitations in this case would be discriminating against his right to choice ......... or are you only concerned about discriminations that suit your biased views and opinions?

gozunda

MadDog76 wrote: »

It wouldn't be fair to force anybody to do business with anybody else that they choose not to ......... to force the printer to print the invitations in this case would be discriminating against his right to choice ......... or are you only concerned about discriminations that suit your biased views and opinions?

Your 'fair' or illegal? - btw I include all forms of discrimination. I'll go with it being illegal.

BlaasForRafa

Specialun wrote: »

No its not correct..its been pointed out to you that the company DID NOT discriminate because the guy is gay....the company had done printing work for them before..

He was against gay marriage/civil partnerships so he choose not to do the job

I hope he doesn't take any jobs from people advertising for tattoo parlors, religious shops selling icons and statues, butchers and shops selling shellfish, pork, black pudding and ...camel, because all those are outlawed by the bible too.

Cody montana

They are free to voice their opinions, however like everyone else they are not immune for criticism.
Free speech works both ways.
This will have a very negative impact upon their business now.

Specialun

gozunda wrote: »

So because someone else said it - it is true - seriously? What about what customer has said. The customer did business with the printers previously without them knowing he was gay! Did the guy say "whoppeeee I'm gay - how do you do?" The bigoted printers only found out by the wording on the invites - they then discriminated against him by refusing him goods and service contrary to anti discrimination law. Don't like that? Tough.

What are you yapping on about...

The guy was on 4fm last night, i was listening and ive read numerous sh!te articles on it...its pointed out by the printing company and others that they have not discrimated because his gay, they choose not to do the job be ause of their beliefs

Theyre entitled tohold these beliefs and theyre also entitled to turn down business..in fact the printing company have been respectful to the guy

gozunda

MadDog76 wrote: »

It turns out you are God!!!

I'd prefer not to be worshipped by a bunch of misinthropes. Thanks but no thanks ...

Specialun

Here is piece from printers statement


“We are not against homosexuals, however, we do not support same sex marriage, which printing wedding invitations would do.”

desertcircus

Deleted User wrote: »

Nothing against gays, but why can't we be tolerant of other people's religious beliefs?

There are plenty of other businesses to frequent, no need to play the victim card and make such a big deal about it.

I feel a business should have the right to serve who they want, even if we disagree with it.

Several distinct points of disagreement with this:

1. Tolerance of religious beliefs and tolerance of religiously inspired behaviours are wildly different concepts. I have no problem with people believing whatever they want, as long as it doesn't impact negatively on my rights.

2. What happens if all the businesses decide they don't want to print things for civil partnerships? The whole point is that doing so unfairly limits the choices open to certain people based on their sexuality.

3. "Go to another printer" isn't an option that exists in a lot of Irish towns.

4. "Playing the victim card"? Seriously? The business in question refused to provide a service based on the sexuality of the people involved. Getting angry about that isn't "playing the victim card", it's standing up for your right to be treated as equal.

5. If a business is operated as a limited company, it has no religious beliefs. It cannot have religious beliefs. The personal convictions of the owners and directors are not the same thing as the personal convictions of the company, because a company is a completely legally separate construct. That's the entire point of a limited company: it separates the business from the people operating it. If the company's debts are not the owner's debts, the owner's beliefs are not the company's beliefs.

6. The quick test for arguments about gay rights: if you made the same argument about black people or about interracial marriage, would you sound like a raging bigot? If the answer is yes, then making the same argument in relation to LGBT people or gay marriage makes you sound like a raging bigot. On that count, "shops should be allowed to refuse to serve black people, and black people need to stop playing the victim card and just go to another shop", is the argument of a raging bigot. Switched for gay rights, what makes it any more legitimate?

gozunda

Specialun wrote: »

What are you yapping on about...

The guy was on 4fm last night, i was listening and ive read numerous sh!te articles on it...its pointed out by the printing company and others that they have not discrimated because his gay, they choose not to do the job be ause of their beliefs

Theyre entitled tohold these beliefs and theyre also entitled to turn down business..in fact the printing company have been respectful to the guy

I replace your alternative reality to what the customer is quoted as saying. So Wrong on all the points enumerated oh and by the way what they did is still illegal. They can hold whatever 'beliefs' they like in their home or in their place of worship but they cannot use their briefs to discriminate.

Don't like that? Tough.

desertcircus

Specialun wrote: »

What are you yapping on about...

The guy was on 4fm last night, i was listening and ive read numerous sh!te articles on it...its pointed out by the printing company and others that they have not discrimated because his gay, they choose not to do the job be ause of their beliefs

Theyre entitled tohold these beliefs and theyre also entitled to turn down business..in fact the printing company have been respectful to the guy

No, they're not entitled to turn down business on the basis of their personal beliefs. That's a fairly straightforward violation of (I believe) the Equal Status Act.

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

So if any business won't serve single mothers, coloured people, people of other religions or none, red haired people, disabled etc then - is that's all fair and dandy? What kind of obstacle course type society would we inhabit if we have to check the list of prohibited people printed on each door of the premiseses we wished to do business in. What if the premises is the only general store in the area and you lack transport or are disabled or blind ...

I think you are jumping to extreme permutations there. It's extremely rare that a business will not do business with a same-sex couple. I think most businesses are more concerned with the bottom line which doesn't care for people's differences.

I say let the free market sort it out, and let businesses decide which customers to accept.

Specialun

gozunda wrote: »

I replace your alternative reality to what the customer is quoted as saying. So Wrong on all the points enumerated oh and by the way what they did is still illegal. They can hold whatever 'beliefs' they like in their home or in their place of worship but they cannot use their briefs to discriminate.

Don't like that? Tough.

Here is what the printer says


“We are not against homosexuals, however, we do not support same sex marriage, which printing wedding invitations would do.”


So is it the case the printers statement is bull bcoz it doesnt suit your agenda?

Kiwi in IE

Specialun wrote: »

Both companies are well known...its already being pointed out before that the printing company is very religeous and this is seen when you walk in the door

So are you saying that if I go into a business and see any hint of religion, I should walk out and take my business elsewhere because the owners are likely to be pricks? Should I assume that all religious people are like these arseholes and avoid their businesses?

I am sure there are plenty of religious business owners who do not behave like bigoted rednecks and would not dream of discriminating against their customers because they are gay. Seems a bit harsh to suggest they should be avoided if there are any visible signs of religion!

Specialun

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

So are you saying that if I go into a business and see any hint of religion, I should walk out and take my business elsewhere because the owners are likely to be pricks? Should I assume that all religious people are like these arseholes and avoid their businesses?

I am sure there are plenty of religious business owners who do not behave like bigoted rednecks and would not dream of discriminating against their customers because they are gay. Seems a bit harsh to suggest they should be avoided if there are any visible signs of religion!

You need glasses mate..ive not said to avoid relegeous premises..

desertcircus

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you are jumping to extreme permutations there. It's extremely rare that a business will not do business with a same-sex couple. I think most businesses are more concerned with the bottom line which doesn't care for people's differences.

I say let the free market sort it out, and let businesses decide which customers to accept.

Extremely rare? This isn't even the first time a printer's refusal to serve a gay couple has made the headlines in the last two years.