New alarm advice

marge2006

Following on from good advice I got on here before I'm asking for more info now ! I've been getting quotes for a new system which could work with some of my old astec sensors as I'm reluctant to pay for every sensor to be changed. I've been looking at the GSD but one installer who visited today said he would prefer the HKC as the control box is separate in the utility away from the panel in the hall. He says this is advantageous as if a burglar comes through the front door with the GSD they could just pull the whole lot off the wall whereas with the HK C at least the control panel is in a separate location and can send still send its signal in the event of an activation. He also says radio monitoring is the safest and least likely to be jammed but will cost a 450 !! per year. Any advice on the separate keypad/panel issue and best form of monitoring ?

altor

marge2006 wrote: »

Following on from good advice I got on here before I'm asking for more info now ! I've been getting quotes for a new system which could work with some of my old astec sensors as I'm reluctant to pay for every sensor to be changed. I've been looking at the GSD but one installer who visited today said he would prefer the HKC as the control box is separate in the utility away from the panel in the hall. He says this is advantageous as if a burglar comes through the front door with the GSD they could just pull the whole lot off the wall whereas with the HK C at least the control panel is in a separate location and can send still send its signal in the event of an activation. He also says radio monitoring is the safest and least likely to be jammed but will cost a 450 !! per year. Any advice on the separate keypad/panel issue and best form of monitoring ?

Radio would be the hardest to block, thats not saying it cant be tho. I have never heard of it being done on an alarm. The GSD system has an arming station which means the control panel does not have to be located at the door. The only problem there is if you your old system was wired to this location.The GSD system has smash and grab. What the smash and grab does is when the front door is opened it is looking for a user code to be entered in 60 seconds. If it does not receive it you will be notified on the app. All these all in one systems have a pry off tamper meaning if it is pulled off the wall it will try to get an alert out. The phone line is not good for something like this as if the system is pulled off the wall the line could be pulled out meaning no communications. A GSM, Gprs would have more of a chance as its powered off the systems battery once pulled off the wall. Wifi cards would be vulnerable if the mains was switched off.

marge2006

Thanks Altor. I have an old astec. Control panel is in the utility room well away from front door. The keypad is beside the front door. I take it from what you are saying that it is possible to keep this arrangement with a GSD. One other problem that arose is that I have French doors with a very narrow recess. Installer suggested that GSD may not have the extra narrow sensors that HKC do to fit there and that he could have to damage walls to put sensors in ? Anyone know if GSDs sensors come in a narrow fitting the gap is 4 cm.

Evolution1

marge2006 wrote: »

Thanks Altor. I have an old astec. Control panel is in the utility room well away from front door. The keypad is beside the front door. I take it from what you are saying that it is possible to keep this arrangement with a GSD. One other problem that arose is that I have French doors with a very narrow recess. Installer suggested that GSD may not have the extra narrow sensors that HKC do to fit there and that he could have to damage walls to put sensors in ? Anyone know if GSDs sensors come in a narrow fitting the gap is 4 cm.

He could just use HKCs slimline sensor with the GSD panel if it's on it own zone

marge2006

Thanks guys. Any installers I've met are really pushing the HKC and have no experience with GSD. One guy has agreed to use GSD if I really want but has not used it before. Are there any potential problems that can be foreseen with installing a system for the first times? Am I mad to go with a different system in case the company closes or I can't get spare parts ? Any ideas on the cost of monitoring from a monitoring station using polling type gsm ? finally is there less expensive radio monitoring available ?

Evolution1

marge2006 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Any installers I've met are really pushing the HKC and have no experience with GSD. One guy has agreed to use GSD if I really want but has not used it before. Are there any potential problems that can be foreseen with installing a system for the first times? Am I mad to go with a different system in case the company closes or I can't get spare parts ? Any ideas on the cost of monitoring from a monitoring station using polling type gsm ? finally is there less expensive radio monitoring available ?

HKC is the most popular system in Ireland.

If the installer hasn't used GSD then I would go with an installer who's comfortable using GSDs system.

Why don't you use two communication paths instead of just radio. A polling GSM and a polling wifi or LAN card. The two together would cost less then the radio and if one path is sabotaged you have a back up.

marge2006

Ok Evolution. Two paths sounds like a good option. The problem I have is that I'm in a rural location and that the wifi can be dodgy. I've had problems getting anyone to do GSD and this guy is the only one who has said he will look into it.Everyone pushes HKC. he said they are all similar but I'm wondering if problems occur would it be better to have someone more familiar or are they all the same ???

marge2006

Thanks guys. Can you explain what is securecomms please ? What are the options for comms paths without annual subscription ? Can anyone explain how radio is superior and how much it costs / who operates it ? Sorry but I don't understand clearly how it all works.

KoolKid

The IP is not necessarily gone if the phone line is.
With Siemens you can have multiple independent paths all backing each other up and notifying you of the others failure.
With GSD you can do similar as well as getting notifications of network fails and smash and grap alerts. Risco also has many similar options over multiple paths. All of them let you do this without subscription or annual charges. Yet you think HKC with an annual subscription and relying solely on a GSM connection is better?
I am baffled.

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

But the IP is gone if the phone line is gone. And the GSM is gone if jammed.

I'd be happy with Two Comms paths as I'm notified if Either or Both fail from Securecomm.

My point here is with HKC, securecomm will inform you of a COMPLETE path failure where as SIEMENS will NOT. This is the difference between the two services offered by HKC and Siemens

You can certainly use a LAN card and a wifi card with HKC as I'm sure you can with GSD. It's the installers who are choosing the GSM as they are covered if it's jammed

You are trying to convince the one path wonder KID that multi paths are better than the one (IP)
You may as well be talking to the wall with regards this.
If he thinks having the server built into the panel is a good thing then he is delusional IMO.


If you have a PSTN dialer and the line is cut then this communication and in most case the modem connection is down.
If the IP connection is gone on the seimens panel then you dont get any notification of this.
People using UPC plus land lines have this issue as the phone and IP comes from the modem.

KoolKid

You are presuming a lot here. It's never good to presume anything when it comes to security. As I said if the the idea of multiple paths them there could be seperate lines for both. There could be even multiple sources for IP etc as well.
I think if you are really interested is supplying this level of security you are pushing the wrong product. There are better and more secure options out there from multiple different manufacturers if only you would broaden you horizons and do some research.

kub

Guys can we please stop this here and now? Ye might as well give the burglars the tools now as well as ye are at it.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

Going from the PMs I get I believe they do.
Also going by the quotations I am doing lately the general public do as well.
The sentiment I get is people who want to pay will spend it on monitoring . The vast majority of people who don't want that service certainly don't want to have to pay for an app or just to use an app.
The more people who can be made aware of the alternatives the better in my opinion.
People who are not aware of all the options often make bad decisions. The PW story is proof of that.

I agree with you, but as i said I don't think this is the place to be filling thieves heads with ideas.

Stoner

guys this thread was a joke, the OPs question forgotten and replaced by one-upmanship posts.

I'm going to evaluate both of these systems with respect to cost, resilience etc. I'm going to make it a sticky for posters to refer to

but not discuss. It may take a while, but I've experienced both and I'll try to offer a fair report. I don't install alarms and have no favourites

marge2006

Thanks Stoner. I have read your separate thread. Very useful.if someone could post their experience of GSD id be grateful. Any comments/ experience of using radio also welcome.

KoolKid

We install quite a lot of GSD systems.I find it a very reliable system which also has the options of free apps and free notifications and remote access.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.