The Truth about Craft Beers...

MadsL

Egginacup wrote: »

I've tried a load of them and all I've found to be sh1t. Yet some twonk with a goatee will say they're the best. Full of hops because it's nearly impossible to fcuk up an ale. They will die a death like thrash metal in the 80's.

I'd take that bet.
The beer industry was destroyed by big business in the 70s, before that there were thousands of breweries producing hundreds of styles.

The London Porter that Arthur Guinness copied was a 'hipster' fad of the late 1700s.

Eutow

Guinness has fish bladder guts and high fructose corn syrup. Sounds like Coca Cola to me instead of a beer, but I do still drink it the odd time.

Budweiser uses experimental genetical modified rice.

Newcastle Brown uses caramel coloring. Class 3 and 4 caramel coloring is made from ammonia, which is classified as a carcinogen.

Sounds like something from a chemisty class, all very appetising. You also won't be suprised to know that the big beer companies have campaigned, and sucessfully I may add, to be exempt from labelling its ingredients.

kenmc

jetsonx wrote: »

too hoppy



What do you think?

impossible

Eutow

Egginacup wrote: »

I've tried a load of them and all I've found to be sh1t. Yet some twonk with a goatee will say they're the best. Full of hops because it's nearly impossible to fcuk up an ale. They will die a death like thrash metal in the 80's.

And some nitwit in a suit that gets an erection from an Excel sheet will say Bud is the best. If it's impossible to fcuk up an ale then wouldn't that mean the ale should taste good.

There are good and bad ales, good and bad lagers, and tasteless ales and tasteless lagers.

conorh91

MadsL wrote: »

The fact that you are comparing consuming several pints of beer with a tablespoon of salad dressing seems pretty anti-science to me.

In that case, I look forward to your evidence demonstrating the causal effects of MSG, GSM, etc towards veisalgia, or the common hangover.

Lets be having it.

Which ones [have rice]?

Noah Steingraeber
Jasmine Rice Cream
Hibiscus Rice Cream
Rice Cream Ale
Light Side of The Moon
Snap Crackle Hop
Mongozo Premium Pilsener
Green's Amber Ale
Trade Winds

Just some of the ones I came across on google. Not planning on spending my Saturday night making an exhaustive list for a stranger, but you can see where this is going.

eyeball kid

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm originally from a small town in the middle of nowhere in Germany - 70k inhabitants

Off topic but I love the the German definition of a small town! I'm from a small town, there's about 800 people in the place and surrounding areas!

dashcamdanny

jetsonx wrote: »

Lovely brew alright. Perfectly balanced and as you mention a very crisp taste.

But, it's distribution seems to be scant. Aer Lingus serve it though.

They have on tap local here in Sallins Lock 13. I think the same lad that owns Browns Barn in City West and another pub in Newbridge is the only to have it on tap.

Could be wrong.

Has potential to take on the big guns and big sellers in every local.

Pity they cant manage to make it available.

MadsL

conorh91 wrote: »

In that case, I look forward to your evidence demonstrating the causal effects of MSG, GSM, etc towards veisalgia, or the common hangover.

Lets be having it.

I'll not be disingenious and suggest that it is isn't debatable and modern studies do seem to be debunking it, but don't you find it odd that your instant ramen has to list it but not the beer you drink with it.
The FDA requires that foods containing added MSG list it in the ingredient panel on the packaging as monosodium glutamate, but not in beers?
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-10-03/science-suggests-msg-really-isnt-bad-your-health-after-all

Noah Steingraeber
Jasmine Rice Cream
Hibiscus Rice Cream
Rice Cream Ale
Light Side of The Moon
Snap Crackle Hop
Mongozo Premium Pilsener
Green's Amber Ale
Trade Winds

Just some of the ones I came across on google. Not planning on spending my Saturday night making an exhaustive list for a stranger, but you can see where this is going.

Did you read my post? I didn't say none of them experimented with rice, but they are using rice as specific brightness/dryness profile. Japanese and Asian beers widely use rice.

Budweiser is a copy of centuries old Czech beer from Cesky Budjovice, and they add rice because it is cheap! That's why they are slagged for it.

buried

Eutow wrote: »

Guinness has fish bladder guts and high fructose corn syrup. Sounds like Coca Cola to me instead of a beer, but I do still drink it the odd time.

Budweiser uses experimental genetical modified rice.

Newcastle Brown uses caramel coloring. Class 3 and 4 caramel coloring is made from ammonia, which is classified as a carcinogen.

Sounds like something from a chemisty class, all very appetising. You also won't be suprised to know that the big beer companies have campaigned, and sucessfully I may add, to be exempt from labelling its ingredients.

Exactly. Lets get a thread going titled "The TRUTH about Diageo drink ingredients" up in here instead

MadsL

buried wrote:

Exactly. Lets get a thread going titled "The TRUTH about Diageo drink ingredients" up in here instead

Do it!!

buried

MadsL wrote: »

Do it!!

I ain't got the knowledge of the ingredients MadsL!! But I would like to find out!

whatawaster

kylith wrote: »

This.

I love being able to try loads of different beers and find something that I like. I was in the Porterhouse recently and asked for the barmaid's recommendation and she poured me a couple of wee samples, which was nice of her. I went to the beerfest in 2013 and it was great fun.

:eek:

Eutow

kylith wrote: »

This.

I love being able to try loads of different beers and find something that I like. I was in the Porterhouse recently and asked for the barmaid's recommendation and she poured me a couple of wee samples, which was nice of her. I went to the beerfest in 2013 and it was great fun.

whatawaster wrote: »

:eek:

Definitely recommend it, especially the first thing in the morning wee, a nice dark yellow/light brown so it is.

conorh91

MadsL wrote: »

I'll not be disingenious and suggest that it is isn't debatable and modern studies do seem to be debunking it, but don't you find it odd that your instant ramen has to list it but not the beer you drink with it.

Sure, but if beer doesn't have any mandatory ingredients listed, how do you know "craft beers" aren't adding as many synthetic or 'undesirable' compounds?

Did you read my post? I didn't say none of them experimented with rice, but they are using rice as specific brightness/dryness profile. Japanese and Asian beers widely use rice.

Budweiser is a copy of centuries old Czech beer from Cesky Budjovice, and they add rice because it is cheap! That's why they are slagged for it.

So it's ok for craft beers to use rice for taste, but if a larger company use rice to reduce costs, it's bad... Riight.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

Sure, but if beer doesn't have any mandatory ingredients listed, how do you know "craft beers" aren't adding as many synthetic or 'undesirable' compounds?

So it's ok for craft beers to use rice for taste, but if a larger company use rice to reduce costs, it's bad... Riight.

Nobody said such a thing. Where did you read that? Rice is a cheaper ingredient than barley and is used over better quality ingredients.

Apparently, it gives beer a paler color, lighter body, and a more noticeably dry and crisp finish.

Let me repeat in case you misunderstood. Nobody has ever said all micro-brewed beer / craft beer whatever you want to call it is good.

If Budweiser produced the exact same beer but called it a different name and never told anybody, and passed it off as craft, it would still be sh!t because it tastes cr@p.

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

[/B]

Let me repeat in case you misunderstood. Nobody has ever said all micro-brewed beer / craft beer whatever you want to call it is good.

I didn't claim they did. You misunderstood the post.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

I didn't claim they did. You misunderstood the post.

Then what do you mean when you posted this?

So it's ok for craft beers to use rice for taste, but if a larger company use rice to reduce costs, it's bad... Riight.

You make it sound like people who drink beer that isn't one of the bigger brands as only drinking it because it isn't one of the bigger brands, and they would continue drinking it no matter what.

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

You make it sound like people who drink beer that isn't one of the bigger brands

No, I'm not.

I'm saying that there are craft beers that are brewed using rice.

And since craft beers are all about taste (which is why many of us like craft beers), some brewers see rice as having a valuable role in taste.

Now if some mass-producers are using rice, we can't simply knock rice in brewing, simply because they're using it for cost reasons. Clearly, a significant number of craft brewers think rice is a tasteful brewing agent, whatever the intentions of the mass-producer.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

No, I'm not.

I'm saying that there are craft beers that are brewed using rice.

And since craft beers are all about taste (which is why many of us like craft beers), some brewers see rice as having a valuable role in taste.

Now if some mass-producers are using rice, we can't simply knock rice in brewing, simply because they're using it for cost reasons. Clearly, a significant number of craft brewers think rice is a tasteful brewing agent, whatever the intentions of the mass-producer.

Maybe. It would help if all beers had a list of ingredients, so everybody can see what is going into the beer they drink. According to this article below, some brewers see it as a cheap adjunct that is used by larger breweries for their watered-down, cheap beer. Some micro's disagree and use it as well, but the macros do something different by adding colouring agents, fish bladders and such to it, and they obviously have something to hide by not being truthful with the ingredients or lack of them.


http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/30/food/fo-beer30

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

the macros do something different by adding colouring agents, fish bladders and such to it

Fish bladders?

So which large brewery adds fish-bladders to beer?

they obviously have something to hide by not being truthful with the ingredients

But the same obligation lies with craft brewers as large brewers.

In other words, if the mass-producer can exclude ingredients, so too can the craft brewer; or he can exclude the ingredients he wants to exclude.

smurgen

I was totally against craft beer and thought it to be snobbery til I tasted chieftain ipa . actually cheaper than bud / Heineken in most places. It's refreshing and gets ya nicely twisted.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

Fish bladders?

So which large brewery adds fish-bladders to beer?

Guinness -

http://beermasters.org/2014/04/07/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/comment-page-1/

conorh91 wrote: »

But the same obligation lies with craft brewers as large brewers.

In other words, if the mass-producer can exclude ingredients, so too can the craft brewer; or he can exclude the ingredients he wants to exclude.

Yes, ideally everybody should list them and breweries can choose if they want to exclude any ingredients. At the moment they don't have to list anything.

buried

Eutow wrote: »

http://beermasters.org/2014/04/07/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/comment-page-1/

Jayzus. When I head out to the pubs these days it seems that everyone is drinking bottles of Corona.

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

Guinness -

http://beermasters.org/2014/04/07/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/comment-page-1/

Ah right, you mean isinglass apparently; trace materials from collagen.

It's a bit like telling someone who eats fruit pastilles that they're eating calves' hooves, just because it contains gelatin. (In fact, many beers contain gelatin too, and I assume there are craft beers containing isinglass and/or gelatin).

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

Guinness -

http://beermasters.org/2014/04/07/8-beers-that-you-should-stop-drinking-immediately/comment-page-1/

So you are taking an internet blog as gospel? :rolleyes:

I bought a random bottle of so called "craft" beer earlier and had a look at the label.

If that was sold in the UK if would fall foul of the Trade Description Act over there.

"Hand crafted using our own grown ingredients".. Quick google shows the they buy the hops from Kent so lies..

The fact is "craft" brewers buy in stuff and have no idea what is in it.

Likewise the "craft whiskey" industry is buying its base spirits in from the larger distillery's and adding flavors and selling it. How else could a distilery be selling 8 year old when they have only been in business for 2 years???

A local Pizza place opened up the road selling "Artisan pizza and local craft beers.. Nope Galway is not "local" to Rathgar.

Eutow

Some kind of fish extract anyway, but I still drink the stuff occassionally and it's better than most of the big lagers. Whether it would put people off if it was listed as an ingredient on the bottle is another thing.

Generally, cheaper ingredients means poorer quality. Macros use cheaper ingredients because they are only looking at the bottom line and they want their product to appeal to as many people as possible. The only way to do this is to have as plain a taste as possible, nothing over-powering that would put people off.

Fry's Turkish Delight contains gelatin, still eat it though.

Cienciano

For any beer drinker to say craft beers are shíte, makes no sense. It's like saying all food tastes crap.

Eutow

dubscottie wrote: »

So you are taking an internet blog as gospel? :rolleyes:

Several sites have the same info.

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

Some kind of fish extract anyway, but I still drink the stuff occassionally and it's better than most of the big lagers

But if you are correct about labelling (and I'm not familiar with labeling laws) you don't know who is adding isinglass. So you cannot single-out the large breweries.

Macros use cheaper ingredients because they are only looking at the bottom line and they want their product to appeal to as many people as possible.

Do you seriously think craft brewers are not interested in profit? that they are trying to keep their beer quiet?

I have to say, I started off this thread being mildly sceptical about craft beer advocates. At this stage, I'm convinced the most vocal advocates are as bad as any of the anti-science peddlers we see in the 'super-foods' or anti-additives industry.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

But if you are correct about labelling (and I'm not familiar with labeling laws) you don't know who is adding isinglass. So you cannot single-out the large breweries.

Do you seriously think craft brewers are not interested in profit? that they are trying to keep their beer quiet?

I have to say, I started off this thread being mildly sceptical about craft beer advocates. At this stage, I'm convinced the most vocal advocates are as bad as any of the anti-science peddlers we see in the 'super-foods' or anti-additives industry.

Read my post again.

Macros above everything else look at the bottom line and getting as many people to drink their product. A micro-brewery is of course looking to make a profit, how else can they survive, but they have more ambition about making a beer that tastes good (like a beer rather than flavoured water), willing to experiment with different hops, flavours.

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

Several sites have the same info.

Several sites tell me that Coke/Cola whatever dissolves teeth but that has been proved as utter bollox..

Several sites have told me that chewing on MDF while snorting free range egg will give me cancer..

Several sites have told me I can loose weight by taking one tablet a day..

I worked in the drinks industry.. I know what happens.

buried

dubscottie wrote: »

Several sites tell me that Coke/Cola whatever dissolves teeth but that has been proved as utter bollox..

Several sites have told me that chewing on MDF while snorting free range egg will give me cancer..

Several sites have told me I can loose weight by taking one tablet a day..

I worked in the drinks industry.. I know what happens.

What kind of fish bladders do Guinness use?

Eutow

dubscottie wrote: »

Several sites tell me that Coke/Cola whatever dissolves teeth but that has been proved as utter bollox..

Several sites have told me that chewing on MDF while snorting free range egg will give me cancer..

Several sites have told me I can loose weight by taking one tablet a day..

I worked in the drinks industry.. I know what happens.

I was a Guinness master brewer, I know what happens.

dubscottie

I worked with Interbrew in the UK.. Home of all the Smirnoff and Bacardi.. I wont go near Grants vodka/whisky for that reason (all rice based BTW)..

But prove that fish is in Guinness. Links to a blog don't count. If it is true then there is a major public health issue. (allergies etc)...

And what sort of preservatives are the "craft" brewers using?? Cause the bottle I have is good for 2 years..

Eutow

Isinglass.

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

Isinglass.

So "craft" brewers are using the same as Guinness??

Cienciano

dubscottie wrote: »

I worked with Interbrew in the UK.. Home of all the Smirnoff and Bacardi.. I wont go near Grants vodka/whisky for that reason (all rice based BTW)..

But prove that fish is in Guinness. Links to a blog don't count. If it is true then there is a major public health issue. (allergies etc)...

And what sort of preservatives are the "craft" brewers using?? Cause the bottle I have is good for 2 years..

There's not a major public health issue because of the swim bladders guinness use. The issue is with the labeling of alcoholic beverages.
As for grants vodka, maybe you should try it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/wine/5770943/10-vodkas-put-to-the-test.html

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

Macros above everything else look at the bottom line and getting as many people to drink their product. A micro-brewery is of course looking to make a profit, how else can they survive, but they have more ambition about making a beer that tastes good (like a beer rather than flavoured water), willing to experiment with different hops, flavours.

The two aims -- of creating a profit, and of creating a beer that tastes pleasant -- are not mutually exclusive of one another.

Eutow wrote: »

I was a Guinness master brewer

Yeah, I'm starting to think you've had too many craft beers tonight. That's basically a claim that you oversaw Guinness, a firm that you seem to detest (see: claims of using fish bladders)

Guinness master brewers are extremely rare. Since th foundation of the State, Ireland has had more elections for Taoisigh than Guinness has had master brewers. Since you have so many posts that are vehemently opposed to Guinness, I'm going to take your claim with a pinch of salt and a large measure of non-credibility.

Eutow

dubscottie wrote: »

So "craft" brewers are using the same as Guinness??

They wouldn't be the only ones to use it, but it's hard to know who uses what when ingredients don't have to be listed it. As I have said, it hasn't put me off drinking the stuff, but food manufacturers have to list ingredients, all beer comapnies should also.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

The two aims -- of creating a profit, and of creating a beer that tastes pleasant -- are not mutually exclusive of one another.


Yeah, I'm starting to think you've had too many craft beers tonight. That's basically a claim that you oversaw Guinness, a firm that you seem to detest (see: claims of using fish bladders)

I think you don't read my posts properly, every time you reply you claim I said something or believe something that is the exact opposite.

I was deliberately talking b@alls about working there, or maybe not, you can decide, in reply to another poster who claimed to work in the industry, because anybody can claim to be anyone on the internet. Maybe that poster has, I don't know.

And if I detested Guinness why would I drink it?

conorh91 wrote: »

Guinness master brewers are extremely rare. Since th foundation of the State, Ireland has had more elections for Taoisigh than Guinness has had master brewers. Since you have so many posts that are vehemently opposed to Guinness, I'm going to take your claim with a pinch of salt and a large measure of non-credibility.

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

They wouldn't be the only ones to use it, but it's hard to know who uses what when ingredients don't have to be listed it. As I have said, it hasn't put me off drinking the stuff, but food manufacturers have to list ingredients, all beer comapnies should also.

I agree, but there should be a similar law (and enforced) like the Trade Descriptions Act in the UK.

That way all the ingredients (and the source) should be listed.

However that wont work as stuff in the UK is marked as "produced in Britain" but have Spanish tomatoes and carrots from Italy. The "craft" thing goes bigger than beer though..

Artisan sausages, etc.. An artisan is a master at his/her trade. Some "craft" brewers are aged in the 20's so now way are they artisans..

Cienciano

Jesus, just google guinness fish bladders, you'll get hundreds of results, not sure why people have trouble believing it. Even mentioned on the guinness wiki page.
Here and here, i could post another 20 links if you still dont believe it.

conorh91

Eutow wrote: »

I was deliberately talking b@alls about working there, or maybe not, you can decide

Yeah, I think it's firmly established that you're talking bollocks.

Eutow

dubscottie wrote: »

Artisan sausages, etc.. An artisan is a master at his/her trade. Some "craft" brewers are aged in the 20's so now way are they artisans..

It's why I think the term "craft" beer is essentially meaningless when it is just thrown around for anything that is different to Diaego, Heinekein, Coors, SabMiller. You then have the term Real Ale in Britain which is meant to be different again.

Eutow

conorh91 wrote: »

Yeah, I think it's firmly established that you're talking bollocks.

Likewise.

dubscottie

Cienciano wrote: »

Jesus, just google guinness fish bladders, you'll get hundreds of results, not sure why people have trouble believing it. Even mentioned on the guinness wiki page.
Here and here, i could post another 20 links if you still dont believe it.

I could post on Wilki claiming you are a famous artist that sold a painting for €7,000,000.. Not true however..

Just like eating an onion that has been cut in half and put in the fridge is going to poison you.. . Bollox!

People need to wake up and stop believing all the **** on the internet..

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

It's why I think the term "craft" beer is essentially meaningless when it is just thrown around for anything that is different to Diaego, Heinekein, Coors, SabMiller. You then have the term Real Ale in Britain which is meant to be different again.

Real ale is a good term.. I like Bishops Finger.. Been around since the 80's.. But now its a "craft ale"..

No.. Its just an ale.. Mass produced as always. Bodingtons should be a craft beer.. Cant get it in Ireland and is lovely.. Or should I say "tasty" which is the buzz word..

I am drinking Old Specked Hen now.. Not a "craft" beer but marketed as such.

Cienciano

dubscottie wrote: »

I could post on Wilki claiming you are a famous artist that sold a painting for €7,000,000.. Not true however..

Just like eating an onion that has been cut in half and put in the fridge is going to poison you.. . Bollox!

People need to wake up and stop believing all the **** on the internet..

Even though the wiki claim has 4 references and I also posted a link the the Guardian and Smithsonian institute which you choose to ignore. Yes, "wake up sheeple" :rolleyes:

Eutow

dubscottie wrote: »

Real ale is a good term.. I like Bishops Finger.. Been around since the 80's.. But now its a "craft ale"..

No.. Its just an ale.. Mass produced as always. Bodingtons should be a craft beer.. Cant get it in Ireland and is lovely.. Or should I say "tasty" which is the buzz word..

I am drinking Old Specked Hen now.. Not a "craft" beer but marketed as such.

I don't know all these terms just annoy me. If I like a beer I will drink it again, whether it's craft, real ale, or macro. Bishops Finger is ok, I would drink it again, but wouldn't go out of my way to. Haven't had Bodingtons or Old Specked Hen. London Pride is a good solid ale, along with Hobgoblin.

dubscottie

Eutow wrote: »

I don't know all these terms just annoy me. If I like a beer I will drink it again, whether it's craft, real ale, or macro. Bishops Finger is ok, I would drink it again, but wouldn't go out of my way to. Haven't had Bodingtons or Old Specked Hen. London Pride is a good solid ale, along with Hobgoblin.

London Pride is produced in the same place as Bishops finger..