The Truth about Craft Beers...

AnonoBoy

pauliebdub wrote: »

Why?

Are you not sick of hearing it?

It used to just mean skinny jeaned, handle-bar moustachioed people who rode fixies, listened exclusively to ironic albums on 8-track and vinyl and livied in Williamsburg.

Now it can mean someone who drinks a beer that the person uttering the H-word hasn't heard of.

We need new words for these things.

Links234

pauliebdub wrote: »

Why?

Because it's a meaningless term that people throw around willy-nilly to mean "anything I don't like"

Eutow

pauliebdub wrote: »

Why?

Maybe because it is just a term that has now lost all of its original meaning.

MadsL

pauliebdub wrote: »

Why?

Is anyone who eats in restuarant that you have never been to a hipster?
No.

Yet this silly waffle about people who enjoy beer that hasn't had a $12m marketing budget thrown at it being "hipsters". The word is utterly meaningless in this context.
Sigh.

I think for many people coming out with this crap, simply their masculinity is defined by the colour and brand of the pint in their hand, hence the hostility.

The Rape of Lucretia

MonkstownHoop wrote: »

But what will people use to describe things that are different and new?

Groovy.

MadsL

Damn Hepcats, daddio.

Selfish Giant

Sky King wrote: »

'Craft', like 'Artisan' and 'Home Made' is just some wankology word that people who operate high cost base businessness which can't compete on price use to justify charging a premium price for their mediocre produce.

Have you ever heard of a fine vineyard in France offering 'Craft wine'? For fk sake!!

There's no dark mysterious art to brewing. There's nobody stirring a cauldron of mysterious elixir tasting the wort and adding a pinch of hops and a sprinkle of malt to get the mixture just right. Commercial brewing is process engineering, plain and simple. Plenty of 'craft' brewers in Ireland are not process engineers, have no technical capability, are using poxy equipment bought on a shoestring budget with the result that their product tastes like it was fermented in a horse's bowel.

That said, some of them do produce good beer. The 'craft' beer movement, despite all the wankology associated with it, is a good thing, because it equals more variety in pubs and off licences and local brands that people can get behind.

The Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, although a relatively large company, would still be considered a craft brewer. Yet you'll notice their product placement in certain episodes of Friends, and I assume they've gotten even bigger and richer since that series ended 11 years ago. So clearly they're a big commercial beast like all the others. I always take the term 'craft beer' with a pitch of salt, because it doesn't mean that the beer actually tastes nice, or that there isn't a guy in a suit pulling the strings. I think there's too many people interpreting 'craft' as meaning 'quality', or 'integrity'. Ultimately it's about how the beer tastes, and in fairness, all of the nicest beers I've tasted fall into the 'craft' category, despite Guinness Foreign Extra Stout, which is a truly world class beverage.

nlgbbbblth

Links234 wrote: »

Because it's a meaningless term that people throw around willy-nilly to mean "anything I don't like"

I don't use it like that.

AnonoBoy

Selfish Giant wrote: »

The Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, although a relatively large company, would still be considered a craft brewer.

In the states you have to brew under a certain quantity annually to be allowed call yourself a 'craft' beer. As small breweries grew they campaigned for this amount to be raised so they could maintain the 'craft beer' label.

Selfish Giant

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Read that post again with your sarcasm detector turned back on.

Are you sure about that? Te me it's in line with many other equally idiotic comments in this thread.

my friend

Budweiser is hurting, losing market share...between the Budweiser Super Bowl ad that attacked people with taste buds and Budweisers simultaneous dissing of the same informed consumers on social media and other platforms you are witnessing the commercial equivalent of a dying wasps sting.

It's desperate stuff and a sign as to how rattled Budweiser are by the changing sands of consumer choice.

AnonoBoy

Selfish Giant wrote: »

Are you sure about that? Te me it's in line with many other equally idiotic comments in this thread.

Yes. Read my response which they thanked. It's clear to me they were joking and mocking those sort of posts.

nlgbbbblth

Getting back the OP's post - I don't agree. The majority of the craft beers I have tried have been decent. Metalman is my favourite; has anybody had the cans yet?

Bottles of Heineken at a barbecue are fine. The first pint of Carlsberg when you've had a hard day at work can taste good. But if I am in a pub where there's no craft beers on sale, my default choice will be Smithwick's.

Selfish Giant

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Yes. Read my response which they thanked. It's clear to me they were joking and mocking those sort of posts.

Ah, I see. My apologies. I jumped the gun on that one.

Egginacup

Calibos wrote: »

As a bud drinker, the day I stop being asked how I can drink 'that piss-water' is the day I stop thinking all craft beer drinkers are pretentious hipster ****.


I like my piss-water thank you very much!

If someone really liked cheese, like great Stilton, Danish Blue, Olomouc, Gorgonzola, etc with fresh bread and a good bottle of beer or glass of port, would you call them hipster **** as you tucked into your banquet of Wonderbread, Budweiser and EasySingles?

Just a little Samba

AnonoBoy wrote: »

In the states you have to brew under a certain quantity annually to be allowed call yourself a 'craft' beer. As small breweries grew they campaigned for this amount to be raised so they could maintain the 'craft beer' label.

The same sort of thing applies in Ireland but the difference is that in Ireland the limit is set by the government and in the US the limit is set by the Brewers Association, who just happened to be founded by the head brewers of the older craft breweries and as such they moved the goal posts as they expanded, and why not?

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Sam Adams Boston Lager are made the same way today as they were when they launched in the 80's, Anchor Steam is the same as it was in the 70's, the brew kits are bigger for sure, but they are still, compared to the big boys, small time players.

The entire craft beer market in the US, every brewery combined, sells less than Budwieser, Coors Light or Bud Light do individually.

dashcamdanny

anncoates wrote: »

It's funny. If some of the views here were applied to other products, people wouldn't be caught dead saying it.

'I love Rihanna. Anybody that listens to anything else is a fart-sniffing, wanker hipster.'

'I love burger and chips. Anybody that's into the entire range of food available in the world that isn't burgers is a pretentious arsehole.'

Nail on the head.

Very good. Wish I thought of the Rihanna thing.

Just back from the pub. Belly full of http://mcgargles.com/ red and Crean's.

Not bland , just right .
Support passionate Irish people trying to make a difference, and make a few pound in their own patch.

Its better than bland corporation blandness. . IMO (subject to objection).

AnonoBoy

Just a little Samba wrote: »

The same sort of thing applies in Ireland but the difference is that in Ireland the limit is set by the government and in the US the limit is set by the Brewers Association, who just happened to be founded by the head brewers of the older craft breweries and as such they moved the goal posts as they expanded, and why not?

Nothing wrong with it. It's just illustrative of how the once smaller players are getting bigger and also how important the 'craft' label is to them.

Just a little Samba

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it. It's just illustrative of how the once smaller players are getting bigger and also how important the 'craft' label is to them.

Ah yeah, to be fair it helps in marketing a lot.

Being eligible to be members of the brewers association is important too as it gives them the whole collective action thing.

BetterThanThou

I've always assumed craft beer was made with primarily natural ingredients and few if any chemicals, whereas mainstream beer tends to have chemicals in it to make brewing easier and cheaper, and to artificially improve the taste. In general, craft brewing would be a much smaller operation, whereas mainstream brewing would be a much larger operation. I'd personally see it as comparing McDonald's to a nice restaurant. McDonalds can be fantastic, for a bunch of people, it's the ol' reliable, they know the food will at least taste good, and they won't be hungry after it, but it's never going to be something incredible. A nice restaurant has a much larger selection of food, some of it may not be good, some of it might be the best meal you've ever tasted, it doesn't have the same reliability, but if you order the right thing, it'll blow McDonalds out of the water. I feel this very easily relates, I can order any mainstream beer at a bar, it'll get me drunk, and it'll quench my thirst, but it's never going to be something amazing. I can order a random craft beer, and it can potentially be undrinkable, but if I order the right craft beer, it's delicious and blows mainstream beers out of the water.

osarusan

Links234 wrote: »

Referel denied... what was it?

Coedo Ruri.

Links234

osarusan wrote: »

Coedo Ruri.

Never had it, might check it out next time I'm Japan-side

Sky King

I've always assumed craft beer was made with primarily natural ingredients and few if any chemicals, whereas mainstream beer tends to have chemicals in it to make brewing easier and cheaper, and to artificially improve the taste.

'Natural' & 'Chemicals' fall into the same bracket as 'Craft' and 'Artisan'... i.e. they mean nothing and marketing people use them to peddle the exact notion that you are talking about. Tobacco is 'natural' like! And water is a chemical.

Mainstream beer is brewed cheaper because of economies of scale - massive process automation. Interestingly this generally leads to a more consistent product.

Just a little Samba

Sky King wrote: »

Mainstream beer is brewed cheaper because of economies of scale - massive process automation. Interestingly this generally leads to a more consistent product.

And because they use cheaper ingredients and lots of adjunts like rice, HFCS, hop oils instead of whole hops, they brew high abv and liqour down the final product, the brew at higher tempratures to speed up fermentation and force carbonate to compensate for loss of gas, the filter the living jesus out of the final product to get "consistancy".

conorh91

Just a little Samba wrote: »

And because they use cheaper ingredients and lots of adjunts like rice, HFCS, hop oils instead of whole hops, they brew high abv and liqour down the final product, the brew at higher tempratures to speed up fermentation and force carbonate to compensate for loss of gas, the filter the living jesus out of the final product to get "consistancy".

Some of them do, yeah. Just as so-called craft beers cannot be dismissed en masse by a logical person, neither can the larger operations be dismissed.

I'm afraid logic is something that is often missing when the issue of craft beers arises.

Kev_2012

I like Heineken, Guinness, Paulaner, Blue Moon, Rebel Red, Murphy's, Smithwicks, Galway Hooker, Granville Island lager and winter ale, PBR, Fischers, and many many more.

They are all beer. Not craft beer, Just god damned beer!!!

Stupid buzz words.

But what also grinds my gears is when pubs try to market Molson Canadian or Tiger as craft beer and also Blue moon calls itself a craft beer, depsite none of them adhering to the definition of the term "craft beer", but it doesn't matter anyway, because it's stupid f*cking term and needs to f*ck off to the depths of hell and join the likes of tracker mortgage and dwindle away to feck.

AnonoBoy

Kev_2012 wrote: »

But what also grinds my gears is when pubs try to market Molson Canadian or Tiger as craft beer and also Blue moon calls itself a craft beer, depsite none of them adhering to the definition of the term "craft beer"

I think techinically in the US Blue Moon does qualify as a craft beer. They were one of the breweries who campaigned to have the quantity increased so they could still classify themselves as 'craft'.

But I get what you mean and I agree. Just like music, there's only two types of beer - good beer and bad beer.

Egginacup

Eutow wrote: »

And some nitwit in a suit that gets an erection from an Excel sheet will say Bud is the best. If it's impossible to fcuk up an ale then wouldn't that mean the ale should taste good.

There are good and bad ales, good and bad lagers, and tasteless ales and tasteless lagers.

I'm a lager/pilsner drinker. When I lived in Germany I was spoiled for choice as just about every town has its own beer and their strict brewing laws meant no horrible preservatives, etc. My favourite beers in the world are Krombacher, Spaten or Staropramen and Radegast if in a Czech place. These are not "craft" beers per se, they're mainstream but they are very good. I haven't been able to find a single "craft" lager/pilsner that hasn't made me squirm as a result of the bitter hop overload.

irish_goat

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I think techinically in the US Blue Moon does qualify as a craft beer. They were one of the breweries who campaigned to have the quantity increased so they could still classify themselves as 'craft'.

But I get what you mean and I agree. Just like music, there's only two types of beer - good beer and bad beer.

Blue Moon isn't a brewery, it's just another beer made by MolsonCoors.

Sam Adams are the main driving force behind the craft quantity being increased.

Egginacup

MadsL wrote: »

I'll not be disingenious and suggest that it is isn't debatable and modern studies do seem to be debunking it, but don't you find it odd that your instant ramen has to list it but not the beer you drink with it.
The FDA requires that foods containing added MSG list it in the ingredient panel on the packaging as monosodium glutamate, but not in beers?
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-10-03/science-suggests-msg-really-isnt-bad-your-health-after-all




Did you read my post? I didn't say none of them experimented with rice, but they are using rice as specific brightness/dryness profile. Japanese and Asian beers widely use rice.

Budweiser is a copy of centuries old Czech beer from Cesky Budjovice, and they add rice because it is cheap! That's why they are slagged for it.

Well they're not very good at copying then, are they. Czech beers taste great. Budweiser is foul.

Egginacup

dubscottie wrote: »

I worked with Interbrew in the UK.. Home of all the Smirnoff and Bacardi.. I wont go near Grants vodka/whisky for that reason (all rice based BTW)..

But prove that fish is in Guinness. Links to a blog don't count. If it is true then there is a major public health issue. (allergies etc)...

And what sort of preservatives are the "craft" brewers using?? Cause the bottle I have is good for 2 years..

I'd say that if there was fish anything in Guinness they would be facing a massive lawsuit from vegetarians.

Sheep Lover

Jaysus, you'd don't can't even taste what you're drinking after pint number 7/8 anyway.

billythefish99

Egginacup wrote: »

I'd say that if there was fish anything in Guinness they would be facing a massive lawsuit from vegetarians.

Uh, why? There has been Isinglass in Guinness since the mid 19th century.

Shenshen

Egginacup wrote: »

I'd say that if there was fish anything in Guinness they would be facing a massive lawsuit from vegetarians.

They're not exactly secretive about it : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/guinness-fish-bladder_n_2878165.html

It's been known for a long time, and most vegetarians I know are well aware of it. It's used in the filtering process, so as I understand it's not strictly speaking an ingredient, as it gets removed from the beer before it's being sold.
There aren't in fact many beers around that don't use animal products in production - although the end product shouldn't contain any.

spongebob89

jetsonx wrote: »

As we all know, there has been an explosion in the number of craft beers available on the market.

But very few of these are actually nice. (nicer than Bud, Coors etc but that would not be too hard) Most are too watery, too hoppy or just lack any sort of decent flavor.

There are of course exceptions. Five Lamps is a tasty brew as is Red Rebel but other ones which I've tasted have stood out for being totally unremarkable, forgettable or just insipid.

The fact of the matter is most, not all, craft beers su@k.

What do you think?

Well otger than taste, iv busted the myth that craft beer gives less of a hangover when in reality it kills you alot worse than carlsberg etc

billythefish99

spongebob89 wrote: »

Well otger than taste, iv busted the myth that craft beer gives less of a hangover when in reality it kills you alot worse than carlsberg etc

Too much alcohol gives you a hangover, it doesnt matter if its in a 1964 Chablis or cans of Dutch Gold.

Egginacup

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I was in Aldi this morning and I usually buy the rheinbacher pils but was looking at those you mentioned Links. Was gonna give them a try but it was before half 12 I'll grab them next time I'm in and report back.

But you see, those beers aren't really "craft" beers are they. They're just obscure regional continental beers that have been brewed for probably over 100 years. I'm not saying that how old a beer is is important but it does add a certain pedigree. I haven't been able to find a single lager/pilsener in the Porterhouse in Dublin that I like.....Temple Brau is kind of ok, I suppose and I've tried Rebel lager in the Bull and Castle which is also OK, but to be honest if all they have on tap are those hoppy craft ales then I'll probably default to a bottle of Urquell or something like that if it's not exhorbitant

LDN_Irish

Yeah sorry, that was off topic in response to Links, I wasn't calling them "crafts." Are you saying that tmthe Rheinbacher pils have been brewed for over 100 years? I thought they were just an Aldi brew. I like them anyway, prefer Lidls version but I don't live near a Lidl. I noticed Lidls one went from 5.5% to 4.9% a few years back, but the taste didn't really suffer.

It has always struck as weird how homogenous the drink choices are here. If um drinking in London most people will have a different drink in their hand. I could go to the pub over here and there could be 7 people drinking Heine and 3 drinking Bulmers. Ordering something radical like a Carlsberg brings on the gagging noises from some of the Heine Brigade. Strange stuff.

I like Templebrau and don't mind the Oyster stout. They've lost their edge a bit now that you can get a lot more variety in a lot of places.

Egginacup

billythefish99 wrote: »

Uh, why? There has been Isinglass in Guinness since the mid 19th century.

Ah, ok.

Actually I heard about this before but completely forgot about it. So it's not actually an ingredient is it or is it some kind of catalyst?

Egginacup

Shenshen wrote: »

They're not exactly secretive about it : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/14/guinness-fish-bladder_n_2878165.html

It's been known for a long time, and most vegetarians I know are well aware of it. It's used in the filtering process, so as I understand it's not strictly speaking an ingredient, as it gets removed from the beer before it's being sold.
There aren't in fact many beers around that don't use animal products in production - although the end product shouldn't contain any.

I didn't do my homework regarding isinglass. I know now.

AnonoBoy

irish_goat wrote: »

Blue Moon isn't a brewery, it's just another beer made by MolsonCoors.

Sorry. When I said 'they' I meant the brewery who makes the beer.

I'm just going on what I was told on a beer tour of Brooklyn a while ago. They said the increase had been pushed for by Sam Adams and MolsoonCoors and it allowed beers like Blue Moon be classed as a craft beer. Of course I was quite drunk at the time so the details are hazy.

I wonder is Blue Moon still a craft beer over there?

kylith

Egginacup wrote: »

Ah, ok.

Actually I heard about this before but completely forgot about it. So it's not actually an ingredient is it or is it some kind of catalyst?

It's finings, used in the filtering of beers and wines. The proteins in the dried isinglass trap suspended yeast cells making the beer less cloudy.

Just a little Samba

Shenshen wrote: »

There aren't in fact many beers around that don't use animal products in production - although the end product shouldn't contain any.

Besides Isinglass being used for fining (making the fermentation stop and the yeast drop to the bottom of the fermentation vessel) and Glycerol monostearate being used to give better head retention I can't think of many vegetarian unfriendly additives in beer and both of them are pretty rare in this day and age as there are cheaper and easier ways of making beers drop bright than Isinglass and better ways of getting head retention than Glycerol monostearate.

There are more non-vegan additives like Lactose and Honey but sure vegans are all mental anyway.

Just a little Samba

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Sorry. When I said 'they' I meant the brewery who makes the beer.

I'm just going on what I was told on a beer tour of Brooklyn a while ago. They said the increase had been pushed for by Sam Adams and MolsoonCoors and it allowed beers like Blue Moon be classed as a craft beer. Of course I was quite drunk at the time so the details are hazy.

I wonder is Blue Moon still a craft beer over there?

MolsonCoors were never membrs of the Brewers Association. The limit isn't on specific beers, its on the total output of the brewery. Blue Moon was never a craft beer or brewed in small batches, it was a macro from it's inception.

That said, it's a good "gateway" beer to craft for a lot of people and it's no worse than lots of other American Wit style beers.

LDN_Irish

I got a few 12 packs of blue moon seasonal selection less than half price a year or 2 back. Have to say, I quite enjoyed them. Wouldn't have paid full price though.

Just a little Samba

LDN_Irish wrote: »

I got a few 12 packs of blue moon seasonal selection less than half price a year or 2 back. Have to say, I quite enjoyed them. Wouldn't have paid full price though.

I wouldn't be a wheat beer fan myself as I find them overly sweet and I get really bloated, but bluemoon tastes no worse than the likes of Frierwisse or Eirdinger to me, but like I said, I don't like wheat beers.

When I lived in the UK I got really into Milds (light bodied, low alcohol dark brown - black beers) and Golden Ales from small local breweries and then got into the pales and IPA's.

LDN_Irish

Sorry, it was actually winter selection, not seasonal. So like some cinnamon and other spices in there. I don't think they were all wheat beers, is their standard one a wheat beer? Scarleh for me, didn't even know that. They had an IPA in there which I enjoyed.

I had some ales in some rural English Midlands town a while back. Three Tuns was one that stood out, quite nice. No idea if that's "craft" or "macro" But I enjoyed it.

Just a little Samba

LDN_Irish wrote: »

Sorry, it was actually winter selection, not seasonal. So like some cinnamon and other spices in there. I don't think they were all wheat beers, is their standard one a wheat beer? Scarleh for me, didn't even know that. They had an IPA in there which I enjoyed.

I had some ales in some rural English Midlands town a while back. Three Tuns was one that stood out, quite nice. No idea if that's "craft" or "macro" But I enjoyed it.

Yeah blue moon is an american version of a belgian style called "wit" which is a wheat beer.

Anything on cask is considered "Real Ale" which I don't really know the definiton of but I think it means it's brewed the old way and natrually conditioned in the cask without any extra carbondioxide added.
Either way I like cask ales. 'Spoons usually have a good selection of the "big" nations names like London Pride or Adnams ghost ship as well as a few local brews. One near my in London had like 16 cask taps, was always fun to go in and sample a few glasses on a friday after work.

Shenshen

Just a little Samba wrote: »

Besides Isinglass being used for fining (making the fermentation stop and the yeast drop to the bottom of the fermentation vessel) and Glycerol monostearate being used to give better head retention I can't think of many vegetarian unfriendly additives in beer and both of them are pretty rare in this day and age as there are cheaper and easier ways of making beers drop bright than Isinglass and better ways of getting head retention than Glycerol monostearate.

There are more non-vegan additives like Lactose and Honey but sure vegans are all mental anyway.

The main alternative to isinglas is gelatine - so either way, animal products are used and even though most of it is removed, some residues may remain.

Personally, I don't mind, but depending how "strict" you are as a vegetarian, it could be an issue.

AnonoBoy

Just a little Samba wrote: »

MolsonCoors were never membrs of the Brewers Association. The limit isn't on specific beers, its on the total output of the brewery. Blue Moon was never a craft beer or brewed in small batches, it was a macro from it's inception.

It's almost like the guy was talking sh*te then. I think I just paid some lad to talk sh*t to me while I drank beer?