The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Knex*

I'm pretty sure brinty made his comment in jest... Cowboys only made their first offseason move the other day

Guffy

Blut2 wrote: »

Hes a Cowboys fan, if he wants to celebrate "winning" in the off season you might as well let him be. Not having anything to celebrate in the playing season for 20+ years must get to a fellow :pac:

They signed hurns, they won nothing

Knex*

NFL institutes 15-yard penalty, possible ejection for lowering head to make hit.

Under the change, a player will be penalized 15 yards and potentially ejected any time he lowers his head to initiate and make contact with his helmet against an opponent. It will apply to tacklers, ball carriers and even linemen, and will take the place of a previous rule that limited the penalty to contact with the crown of the helmet.

Could change the game massively.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22935229/nfl-outlaws-hit-crown-helmet

Paully D

Knex. wrote: »

NFL institutes 15-yard penalty, possible ejection for lowering head to make hit.

Could change the game massively.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22935229/nfl-outlaws-hit-crown-helmet

The safety position just became even more devalued.

helimachoptor

So as a running back you basically cant hinge at the hips and drive forward with both hands on the ball

Knex*

I think they need to change the helmets to something akin to scrum caps and just totally discourage players from tackling without proper technique.

helimachoptor

ODB JR getting knocked out

Knex*

I think that was confirmed as not being him?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/beckham-target-false-report-club-brawl-100-not-odell-article-1.3880845

Foxtrol

Knex. wrote: »

I think they need to change the helmets to something akin to scrum caps and just totally discourage players from tackling without proper technique.

I don’t think it is hyperbolic to say that you’d have players dying on the field if you did that. You can’t unlearn what you’ve been doing since you were a kid. Same issue with this new rule, there will be a lot of flags from it as players make split second decisions based on muscle memory.

I wonder if this new rule coming down the tracks is why teams have been so slow to pay safties this off season.

Knex*

Apparently the rule has been changed in High School for years, and was changed in college last year. Multiple ejections were happening until the latter part of the year when players had adapted.

It'll be tough sledding for a while in the NFL, but they'll get there if they commit to it. New players will be used to it, at least.

TOss Sweep

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don’t think it is hyperbolic to say that you’d have players dying on the field if you did that. You can’t unlearn what you’ve been doing since you were a kid. Same issue with this new rule, there will be a lot of flags from it as players make split second decisions based on muscle memory.

I wonder if this new rule coming down the tracks is why teams have been so slow to pay safties this off season.

I disagree with the unlearn thing. But as Knex pointed out High Schools have coaching heads up for the past 10 years and stamping out lowering and leading with your head so there is no excuse for any player coming through the ranks at this point.

College Football has had the ejection rule since 2014 season I do believe also. So this is nothing new to a lot of players in the league. Obviously the ones who fall outside the heads up are guys who have been in the league a long time.

But I went to a conference on the heads up issue back in 2013 and there was a couple of ex NFL players there who now coach and they said the biggest problem with the NFL is that they no longer practice tackling due to the CBA so NFL coaches don't stamp out bad habits. The NFL is really dependent on High Schools and College doing it for them at this point.

As for cutting out bad habits I disagree that you can't change your ways. Many players have and tackle properly. Stubborn attitudes or "I am doing nothing wrong" are just excuses for not even attempting to tackle better without leading with your head. Now granted there will be accidental collisions they cant be helped but some of the nasty tackles we have seen and debated the head is always leading.

Foxtrol

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I disagree with the unlearn thing. But as Knex pointed out High Schools have coaching heads up for the past 10 years and stamping out lowering and leading with your head so there is no excuse for any player coming through the ranks at this point.

College Football has had the ejection rule since 2014 season I do believe also. So this is nothing new to a lot of players in the league. Obviously the ones who fall outside the heads up are guys who have been in the league a long time.

But I went to a conference on the heads up issue back in 2013 and there was a couple of ex NFL players there who now coach and they said the biggest problem with the NFL is that they no longer practice tackling due to the CBA so NFL coaches don't stamp out bad habits. The NFL is really dependent on High Schools and College doing it for them at this point.

As for cutting out bad habits I disagree that you can't change your ways. Many players have and tackle properly. Stubborn attitudes or "I am doing nothing wrong" are just excuses for not even attempting to tackle better without leading with your head. Now granted there will be accidental collisions they cant be helped but some of the nasty tackles we have seen and debated the head is always leading.

Seems like you responded to something completely different to what I posted. My post related to Knex’s idea of taking away player’s helmets, not learning to play heads up and having good tackle technique like you seem to be debating. I may have been too absolute and after a few years players may possibly learn to play without a helmet but you’d have to completely change the tackle rules to be akin to current rugby and even then that would only help in the openfield, in the ‘trenches’ players would be destroyed from off the ball head collisions. No highschool nor college teams have transitioned to scrum caps rather than helmets, the idea that they can do so in the NFL is so ridiculous we shouldn’t even discuss it as an option.

TOss Sweep

Foxtrol wrote: »

Seems like you responded to something completely different to what I posted. My post related to Knex’s idea of taking away player’s helmets, not learning to play heads up and having good tackle technique like you seem to be debating. I may have been too absolute and after a few years players may possibly learn to play without a helmet but you’d have to completely change the tackle rules to be akin to current rugby and even then that would only help in the openfield, in the ‘trenches’ players would be destroyed from off the ball head collisions. No highschool nor college teams have transitioned to scrum caps rather than helmets, the idea that they can do so in the NFL is so ridiculous we shouldn’t even discuss it as an option.

My bad read you wrong didn't know you were responding to the Rugby style head cap thing. My apologies

For what it is worth I would be 100% against the no helmet idea as you said that is re-inventing the wheel completely with regards tackling. There is a reason why rugby players can only tackle low.

Foxtrol

TOss Sweep wrote: »

My bad read you wrong didn't know you were responding to the Rugby style head cap thing. My apologies

For what it is worth I would be 100% against the no helmet idea as you said that is re-inventing the wheel completely with regards tackling. There is a reason why rugby players can only tackle low.

I fully agree with you on the heads-up part though. People will be annoyed about it for a few weeks but players will learn and things will settle down into it.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

TOss Sweep

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To be fair you being a bit of a sensationalist. College and High School haven't lost any fans and are still exciting to watch. Why would the NFL be any different?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Billy86

Paully D wrote: »

The safety position just became even more devalued.

Your Troy Polamalu/Kam Chancellor, more physical, in the box quite often safety yeah. But on the flipside, the Ed Reed/Earl Thomas type rangy deep safety probably just saw their value go up.

Knex*

https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/979718969031507968

raze_them_all_

Raiders cut Marquette king. Genuinely surprised at that

brinty

raze_them_all_ wrote:

Raiders cut Marquette king. Genuinely surprised at that

They're taking a punter in round one

D9Male

So Cooks goes to LA Rams with a 4th round pick for 1.21. I can't get my head around it. On the face of it, LA are upgrading on Watkins, but I can't escape the feeling that they're giving up a lot to win this season. And who knows what the Patriots are doing. They were supposed to be all in to get as many titles as possible before Brady gets crap, but this is like a rebuild move.

Guffy

D9Male wrote: »

So Cooks goes to LA Rams with a 4th round pick for 1.21. I can't get my head around it. On the face of it, LA are upgrading on Watkins, but I can't escape the feeling that they're giving up a lot to win this season. And who knows what the Patriots are doing. They were supposed to be all in to get as many titles as possible before Brady gets crap, but this is like a rebuild move.

Unless they're going for obj? I doub they are but ya know... maybe

brinty

Guffy wrote: »

Unless they're going for obj? I doub they are but ya know... maybe

All in on receivers...
In the draft
Ridley,Kirk in round one
Washington in round two

Gronk, Hogan and Edelman as the old crew...

Hococop

brinty wrote: »

All in on receivers...
In the draft
Ridley,Kirk in round one
Washington in round two

Gronk, Hogan and Edelman as the old crew...

If gronk decides to go back

Guffy

Hococop wrote: »

If gronk decides to go back

Gronk will be back.

Is britt still there?

letowski

I think Patriots got a good deal. They have got two firsts and seconds to inject talent where they need to. For example they could find themselves in a position to trade up a few spots and take McGlinchey to replace Solder, which is quite a pressing need for them. There are some good development receivers in the mid rounds of the drafts that can be good players, and we know they have an excellent track record in this area of developing skill players.

TOss Sweep

I dont think they will go after any WR in the first two rounds. Most likely take Oline or defensive needs in the first and 2nd round or a QB. Would be surprised to see them trade up in the first either.

Foxtrol

This move from the Rams somehow makes no sense and perfect sense, depending how you look at it.

For the former, in less than a year they have given their 2018 1st and 2nd round picks for two receivers in the last year of their rookie contracts. They have already lost one of them and will likely lose the other at the end of season for the same reason. At 1.23 there would likely be only one WR off the board, so if they picked well they could have had a star WR on a cheap deal for 5 years. After all that their first pick in the 2018 draft is now #87.

On the other hand, most of their off-season moves are an aggressive ‘win now’ look and this fits that plan. They are going to have to blow up the team in the next year or two as you have Donald, Joyner (already tagged once), Suh, Gurley, Peters, and Goff (amongst others) all looking to get paid joined with the likes of Talib and Whitworth likely going downhill. Looking at things that way you might as well add what you see as an experienced ‘sure thing’ WR for the year you’re taking a run for a ring than risk a rookie WR that might need that key year or two to get up to NFL speed.

It is an interesting way to go at things, high risk but obviously a very high reward. I would guess that the long term plan is to keep Donald, Gurley, Goff (if he keeps improving) and one other and let the others go as their contracts end. At that point have their set stars and try to build a younger team around.

It's pretty similar to how the eagles built there team last year tbh and the pats also spent a few draft picks on established guys in the last few years so it may well work out

Onecoolcookie

It's the offseason alright!!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23089998/green-bay-packers-trevor-davis-arrested-bomb-joke-airport

Blut2

Jeese thats a bit unfortunate. American airport staff have to be some of the least humorous people in the world.

Jolly Red Giant

To those Pats fans who believe all is happy in NE heaven - I am sure the latest report of BB tearing into Gronk over his relationship with Guerrero is just another one of those 'nothing to see here'.

This came on top of reports that Mitchell is also working with Guerrero and rumours of a potential player rebellion against BB.

eagle eye

Yeah it's all bull imo. Guerrero is now being suggested as the Rasputin of New England.

Guffy

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

To those Pats fans who believe all is happy in NE heaven - I am sure the latest report of BB tearing into Gronk over his relationship with Guerrero is just another one of those 'nothing to see here'.

This came on top of reports that Mitchell is also working with Guerrero and rumours of a potential player rebellion against BB.

Ah hang on. Did you read ther actual article? It was basically an article about the TB living thing with one line referencing a comment made in week 5 or so. Not a Pats fan but glad to see you can make your mind up from "reports" of a single line in an article.

Hococop

Is it a case of bb not have a problem with it but the medical staff, they are feeling undermined so are telling bb to get rid of Guerrero and considering only a few work with Guerrero he has to

Or is this all been blown out of proportion

j8wk2feszrnpao

Guffy wrote: »

Ah hang on. Did you read ther actual article? It was basically an article about the TB living thing with one line referencing a comment made in week 5 or so. Not a Pats fan but glad to see you can make your mind up from "reports" of a single line in an article.

Don't bother, there's a reason he's banned from the Pats thread.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

It is an interesting situation that the team and BB finds themselves in though. Guerrero like him or loathe him has had success in treating some players and Brady's longevity could possibly be because of his relationship with him. In my mind if Gronk got success by going to the TB12 center and working with Guerrero why would it matter to BB? I'm pretty sure BB really only cares about being successful. So no days off and whatever it takes , except if it means working with Guerrero? Sounds a little suspect and conspiracy theory crap at best.

The Pats as an organisation have to be admired, consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Sustained success and overall a harmonious locker room for the most part.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

It is an interesting situation that the team and BB finds themselves in though. Guerrero like him or loathe him has had success in treating some players and Brady's longevity could possibly be because of his relationship with him. In my mind if Gronk got success by going to the TB12 center and working with Guerrero why would it matter to BB? I'm pretty sure BB really only cares about being successful. So no days off and whatever it takes , except if it means working with Guerrero? Sounds a little suspect and conspiracy theory crap at best.

The Pats as an organisation have to be admired, consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Sustained success and overall a harmonious locker room for the most part.

Maybe it's cause it has been covered to death on Pats radio and coverage, but whatever issues are there, it's based on so little information and has been sensationalized by those trying to get some talk going in the long off season. For most Pats fans this is old info. Guerrero has a dodgy past, but Brady believes in him. Whether it actually makes a difference or not I don't know, but Brady certainly is playing extraordinarily well, which is all I care about

Christy42

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

It is an interesting situation that the team and BB finds themselves in though. Guerrero like him or loathe him has had success in treating some players and Brady's longevity could possibly be because of his relationship with him. In my mind if Gronk got success by going to the TB12 center and working with Guerrero why would it matter to BB? I'm pretty sure BB really only cares about being successful. So no days off and whatever it takes , except if it means working with Guerrero? Sounds a little suspect and conspiracy theory crap at best.

The Pats as an organisation have to be admired, consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Sustained success and overall a harmonious locker room for the most part.

I doubt BB cares much either way. If he felt him effective Guerrero would be part of the Pats set up by now.

Realistically some of what does seems fine and he has an idea about a lot of what he talks about. Indeed plenty to seem to be worse on the basics. Body weight and resistance band stuff is fine. The Chinese medicine and alkaline/acidity stuff is harmless but pointless.

Realistically if there are a million quacks in the world then there are good odds some will get lucky with their patients. I'll save miracle plaudits for the man till a proper study is done on the methods...

Blut2

If Guerrero was nothing but harmless quackery I don't think there would be any conflict. His services would just be eating players free time / money, neither of which would bother the team.

Problems arise when "gurus" like Guerrero give advice to players that contradicts that given by actual medical experts employed by the team, who know what they're talking about. Thats when the drama/conflict starts.

Foxtrol

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

The Pats as an organisation have to be admired, consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Sustained success and overall a harmonious locker room for the most part.

To have a coach and a QB at the same time who are both in the conversation to be GOATs they'd want to be consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Test of the organization will be when they lose one or both. We've seen plenty of teams implode very quickly in the NFL, if the organization can keep the success and harmony going they will deserve all the admiration in the world.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote:

To have a coach and a QB at the same time who are both in the conversation to be GOATs they'd want to be consistently at the right end of the playoff picture. Test of the organization will be when they lose one or both. We've seen plenty of teams implode very quickly in the NFL, if the organization can keep the success and harmony going they will deserve all the admiration in the world.

Don't forget Bob Kraft, a great owner makes a huge difference too.

TOss Sweep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

To those Pats fans who believe all is happy in NE heaven - I am sure the latest report of BB tearing into Gronk over his relationship with Guerrero is just another one of those 'nothing to see here'.

This came on top of reports that Mitchell is also working with Guerrero and rumours of a potential player rebellion against BB.

Notice all the people who buy into this sh1te are people like yourself who just love to see the Patriots fail. Any idea of disharmony inside the Patriots locker room gives you a boner doesn't it? Sad really, As I said before and I will say it again you are obsessed with the Pats. you spend all of your time talking about the Broncos and the Patriots.

All this talk and yet no evidence to back it up. Even if Bill and Gronk had discussion what does it matter? Has Gronk asked to leave? Have the Pats decided to trade him? Nope you wont find an ounce of evidence to back up the disharmony. Just nothing more than hearsay.

Players and coaches disagree all the time and if this wasn't the Patriots in the new no one would give a **** that a HC said something to one of his best players about his training methods. Something coaches are entitled to do if it affects his abilities in NE.

What it boils down to is Bill probably said something to Gronk and Gronk disagreed but both are professionals and got on with their jobs. After all both went to a Superbowl together 6 months after the so called incident. If you want to call that an issue so be it.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Don't forget Bob Kraft, a great owner makes a huge difference too.

Agreed, but the Patriots weren't doing too fantastic under Kraft either until Bill and Tom came along. Again, we'll see how his ownership goes when one or both of those move on. As an outsider it will be interesting to see.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agreed, but the Patriots weren't doing too fantastic under Kraft either until Bill and Tom came along. Again, we'll see how his ownership goes when one or both of those move on. As an outsider it will be interesting to see.

Got to a SB without them; which was huge at the time.
Then hunted down and got Bill; which was pretty fantastic.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agreed, but the Patriots weren't doing too fantastic under Kraft either until Bill and Tom came along. Again, we'll see how his ownership goes when one or both of those move on. As an outsider it will be interesting to see.

Kraft only hired two head coaches since he bought the Patriots(Parcells was there when he bought them), the first one was Pete Carroll and things just didn't work out for him. The second was Bill and we all know how awesome that has been.

Anyways the first head coach he picked wasn't too bad.

Another offseason another overblown pats story itl come to nothing

brinty

Is this the pats thread or general bantz...

easy now pats fans

j8wk2feszrnpao

brinty wrote: »

Is this the pats thread or general bantz...

easy now pats fans

For some non-Pats fans, it's always about the Pats, even when it's not