The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V2

Knex*

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

peyton wont win mvp, with the recieving core as it is I don't think AR will either, probably romo if he can run it like last year

Yeah, probably not, but I'm going with sentiment.

Had actually forgotten about Nelson going down. That's a very valid point.

adrian522

I'd go

MVP: Andrew Luck
OPOTY: Antonio Brown
DPOTY: Khalil Mack
OROTY: Nelson Agholor
DROTY: Leonard Williams
Comeback Player: Navarro Bowman

Guffy

Don't the poty predictions generally have their own thread? So not to clog this one up

Son Of A Vidic

gufc21 wrote: »

Don't the poty predictions generally have their own thread? So not to clog this one up

Someone usually starts a new season prediction thread alright. I didn't even post in the thread last year, so I couldn't be bothered starting one.

Paully D

Tyrod Taylor has won the Bills starting job. :cool:

Itssoeasy

Jay gruden is having a press conference atm and he's officially announced that kirk cousins is the Washington Redskins regular season starting QB. And he said its "kirks team." Jesus is a bit soon to call RGIII a bust ?

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jay gruden is having a press conference atm and he's officially announced that kirk cousins is the Washington Redskins regular season starting QB. And he said its "kirks team." Jesus is a bit soon to call RGIII a bust ?

felt he was last season at this stage he's a reclamation project for another team he never learned how to run smart he runs like vick instead of wilson and he does not have the body to take the hits ala cam (also he's a poor pocket passer). at this stage i could see him banging round the league for years ala vick but being forced to retire earlier. he should be done as a redskin as they've not shown the ability to use him and i don't think gruden wanted him day one

raze_them_all_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jay gruden is having a press conference atm and he's officially announced that kirk cousins is the Washington Redskins regular season starting QB. And he said its "kirks team." Jesus is a bit soon to call RGIII a bust ?

I think the play till his knee implodes probabl;y didnt help rg3

Knex*

Griffin has lost all presence in the pocket, tbh. He craps the pants, can't even remotely go through his progressions, and makes High School level mistakes. I'm not even exaggerating.

There was potential for a very good QB there, as even in his first pre season, he showed he could perform in a WC offense, before they moved primarily to an option, more ad hoc type of offense during the regular season run, but he has regressed massively.

Regressing from your rookie year is a sure fire way to get kicked from the NFL.

adrian522

https://twitter.com/jon_bois/status/638394813214232577

Paully D

Would love to know how RGIII would have done if he hadn't done his knee in.

Billy86

I think Giants, Eagles and Cowboys fans should be thanking Mike Shanahan about now - as much as RGIII played a large role himself, that reckless eejit had a huge part to play in destroying an extremely impressive rookie QB's career.

raze_them_all_

Paully D wrote: »

Tyrod Taylor has won the Bills starting job. :cool:

UnitedIrishman called it perfect, picking between those 3 is like choosing which std you want

Son Of A Vidic

Paully D wrote: »

Would love to know how RGIII would have done if he hadn't done his knee in.

Paully, I think it would have been only a matter of time before he did a knee or something more serious anyway. The guy never seemed to have grasped the concept of running clever with the ball, when to slide, when get out of bounds and protect yourself ect. When a QB thinks he's a RB it will never end well. He's a liability and I wouldn't touch him with a barge poll.

Itssoeasy

Billy86 wrote: »

I think Giants, Eagles and Cowboys fans should be thanking Mike Shanahan about now - as much as RGIII played a large role himself, that reckless eejit had a huge part to play in destroying an extremely impressive rookie QB's career.

Why would any of those teams fans be happy that a head coach started the downfall of a young QB ?

raze_them_all_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why would any of those teams fans be happy that a head coach started the downfall of a young QB ?

was he not linked to those teams at one stage?

Itssoeasy

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

was he not linked to those teams at one stage?

Don't know maybe. But I think it's sad for RGIII that it's all failing apart and hate to see any player lose a starting job.

poldebruin

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Paully, I think it would have been only a matter of time before he did a knee or something more serious anyway. The guy never seemed to have grasped the concept of running clever with the ball, when to slide, when get out of bounds and protect yourself ect. When a QB thinks he's a RB it will never end well. He's a liability and I wouldn't touch him with a barge poll.

I have been watching the NFL for 20 years and I don't remember ever seeing a player taking so many crumpling hits as RG3, the violence of them is almost cartoonish. Doug Flutie was tiny and ran the ball, but I don't remember ever seeing him take hits like RG3 does. Whether it's the body position he gets himself into, or the fact that his build is so slight, I'm not sure, but it was never going to last long in the NFL.

***Gahh - it's 30 years I've been watching***

Billy86

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Why would any of those teams fans be happy that a head coach started the downfall of a young QB ?

Makes the division a whole lot easier, especially with all the Redskins invested in him to begin with.

Knex*

poldebruin wrote: »

I have been watching the NFL for 20 years and I don't remember ever seeing a player taking so many crumpling hits as RG3, the violence of them is almost cartoonish. Doug Flutie was tiny and ran the ball, but I don't remember ever seeing him take hits like RG3 does. Whether it's the body position he gets himself into, or the fact that his build is so slight, I'm not sure, but it was never going to last long in the NFL.

***Gahh - it's 30 years I've been watching***

Imagine a prime Lawrence Taylor facing him twice a year. He'd die.

I do think those hits explain why he's so jittery and almost blind in the pocket, nowadays.

Itssoeasy

poldebruin wrote: »

I have been watching the NFL for 20 years and I don't remember ever seeing a player taking so many crumpling hits as RG3, the violence of them is almost cartoonish. Doug Flutie was tiny and ran the ball, but I don't remember ever seeing him take hits like RG3 does. Whether it's the body position he gets himself into, or the fact that his build is so slight, I'm not sure, but it was never going to last long in the NFL.

***Gahh - it's 30 years I've been watching***

Well i think you have to take into account that the players playing the game are bigger and faster than they were in the past.

Itssoeasy

Just watched the play from the playoff game against seattle(thank you gamepass) and it was a really low snap and RGIII had to reach down to get it and then bent his leg badly.

poldebruin

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well i think you have to take into account that the players playing the game are bigger and faster than they were in the past.

It's definitely not that, as no one else currently in the NFL gets folded in two every time they are hit.

Bear in mind there were far more relaxed rules on late hits, hits to the head, going low, throwing players to the ground, anything and everything went. I can guarantee you that the NFL of the 70s and 80s was a far more violent place for QBs than the NFL today.

I'm not exaggerating to say that I don't think RG3 would make it out of a single game in the 80's NFL.

poldebruin

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Just watched the play from the playoff game against seattle(thank you gamepass) and it was a really low snap and RGIII had to reach down to get it and then bent his leg badly.

I remember watching it live and it looked absolutely awful, Joe Theismann-seque. Had it been a one-off, it would have been bad, but knowing he had damaged it badly a couple of weeks previously made it all the worse.

Paully D

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Paully, I think it would have been only a matter of time before he did a knee or something more serious anyway. The guy never seemed to have grasped the concept of running clever with the ball, when to slide, when get out of bounds and protect yourself ect. When a QB thinks he's a RB it will never end well. He's a liability and I wouldn't touch him with a barge poll.

Yeah, I agree. It was definitely going to happen eventually. I have to say I really liked watching him that first year, he was a breath of fresh air to me. His debut against the Saints, he was so explosive. But you're right, it was never going to be sustainable. Apparently he's absolutely hated in the locker room too.

But the Redskins aren't blameless in this either, they're a complete and utter shambles and Gruden is a joke. One head coach even said he thought Gruden was leaving him in to take a beating on purpose the other night!:

“I have never, ever, on any level, seen a head coach treat his quarterback with such a lack of respect,” the anonymous coach said.

The coach went on to explain how Washington’s offensive line was “in shambles” with starting left tackle Trent Williams sidelined and others playing poorly. Despite that, Gruden apparently felt that RG3 needed the reps.

“That Lions front, even without [Ndamukong] Suh, is pretty ferocious,” he said. “As a coach, you see your guys getting beat, and you see your quarterback especially take that first shot, every coach I know would have taken their quarterback out of the game.

“What is baffling is that I can’t think of a single head coach in the NFL who would take an injury-prone quarterback, put him behind a very shaky offensive line, in a preseason game, watch him take those kinds of hits and leave him in the game. It looks personal to me.”

Son Of A Vidic

poldebruin wrote: »

Bear in mind there were far more relaxed rules on late hits, hits to the head, going low, throwing players to the ground, anything and everything went. I can guarantee you that the NFL of the 70s and 80s was a far more violent place for QBs than the NFL today.

Well ain't that the truth. Just look at the legendary Bears defense of the mid-Eighties, everyone one of them would probably be banned for the season today. For making the kind of hits that were perfectly legitimate back then.

poldebruin wrote: »

I'm not exaggerating to say that I don't think RG3 would make it out of a single game in the 80's NFL.

I once saw RG3 drop his pads as he approached traffic and try to plough through as if he was a north-south power RB. I don't think he'd even last a quarter, if he tried that nonsense back in the Eighties.

Knex*

Akeem Ayers in the players tribune. Has some glowing words for the Pats Organistaion.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/akeem-ayers-rams-super-bowl-patriots/

Knex*

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Well ain't that the truth. Just look at the legendary Bears defense of the mid-Eighties, everyone one of them would probably be banned for the season today. For making the kind of hits that were perfectly legitimate back then.



I once saw RG3 drop his pads as he approached traffic and try to plough through as if he was a north-south power RB. I don't think he'd even last a quarter, if he tried that nonsense back in the Eighties.

There's probably a similar video for the Bears, but the first time I saw this one for the Giants, I constantly winced at the QB hits. Don't know how Montana is even alive, tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Q_vzk9Lbo

Hits are pretty much the same now as then. the poor wuality video makes some of the old ones look worse as it looks more whiplashy(???? That's a word now) due to the poor frame rate. Look at the famous concrete Charlie hit or the shelf on brown hit on reggae bush in his rookie year.

You will always have monster hits in the nfl the only thing that's changed is its a bit harder for a defender to get it right as they have to be more careful where they hit and you have less life altering hits due to helmet to helmet concerns and conclusion protocol

BizzyC

Also when you look back, a lot the astroturf fields they used to play on was basically a carpet on top of concrete.
Having played on similar surfaces, getting knocked to the floor hurts a lot more.

BizzyC

BizzyC wrote: »

Also when you look back, a lot the astroturf fields they used to play on was basically a carpet on top of concrete.
Having played on similar surfaces, getting knocked to the floor hurts a lot more.

the old veterans stadium in philly was a joke if you ever see players talk about it they mention the crowd being bad but there biggest issue always seems to be the surface apparently it was like a carpet but bits of it kept coming up (like the corners of a carpet can do) an it would occasionally trip someone

Paully D

This probably sums up RGIII really:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25286645/robert-griffin-iii-says-intern-liked-instagram-post-criticizing-redskins

Obviously no proof, but I'd imagine he liked the post in the heat of the moment and then thought "oops, shouldn't have done that". Then he decides to thrown an "intern" under the bus. This is the same guy who has made errors and shown awful judgement on social media previously.

No accountability at all. It wouldn't surprise me if that filters through to the locker room, where by all accounts he has completely lost the respect of his peers.

Knex*

Gonna see if I can dig up when an ex Redskins TE, who's now an analyst for their radio, destroyed RG3 after a game. Its actually fascinating.

Edit: Didn't take me long!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/11/19/chris-cooley-rgiii-was-so-bad-i-cant-assess-the-rest-of-the-redskins-offense/

And the entire radio segment:

http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=65&c=13491&f=3640943

Well worth a read/listen, tbh.

Itssoeasy

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

the old veterans stadium in philly was a joke if you ever see players talk about it they mention the crowd being bad but there biggest issue always seems to be the surface apparently it was like a carpet but bits of it kept coming up (like the corners of a carpet can do) an it would occasionally trip someone

I think it was the areas around the bases of the baseball diamond that were the problem nerd. Didn't Michael Irvin blow out his knee or knees at the vet ?

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I think it was the areas around the bases of the baseball diamond that were the problem nerd. Didn't Michael Irvin blow out his knee or knees at the vet ?

yaaaa and then eagels fans booed him and it turned out it was career ending we dont like to speak about that

JaMarcusHustle

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

eagles fans..... we dont like to speak

Heh.

Billy86

If the price is right (e.g. pretty low!), Houston or Buffalo would be fools to not put some heavy consideration into an RGIII trade. No matter what opinions might be on the guy, compare him to a moment to Matt Cassell, Brian Hoyer, Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Matt Simms (Phil must look at Eli and Peyton, then back at his two lads Matt and Chris with... such disappointment ), Ryan Mallet and Tom Savage.

MrKingsley

Billy86 wrote: »

If the price is right (e.g. pretty low!), Houston or Buffalo would be fools to not put some heavy consideration into an RGIII trade. No matter what opinions might be on the guy, compare him to a moment to Matt Cassell, Brian Hoyer, Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Matt Simms (Phil must look at Eli and Peyton, then back at his two lads Matt and Chris with... such disappointment ), Ryan Mallet and Tom Savage.

For Buffalo that would be a woeful decision in my opinion. Theyve just given Taylor the job and bringing in another QB would just add to the mess. Give him a season, or the majority of it, and if that doesnt work then its Manuels shot.

RGIII has shown nothing in the past 18 months that shows hes capable to run an offense better than any of those guys

Billy86

Billy86 wrote: »

If the price is right (e.g. pretty low!), Houston or Buffalo would be fools to not put some heavy consideration into an RGIII trade. No matter what opinions might be on the guy, compare him to a moment to Matt Cassell, Brian Hoyer, Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Matt Simms (Phil must look at Eli and Peyton, then back at his two lads Matt and Chris with... such disappointment ), Ryan Mallet and Tom Savage.

waste of time signing him for those franchises the only chance of rg3 reclaiming his career is to go to a successful franchise with a coach capable of putting him to the side for an offseason or a year and developing him. if he goes to browns or bills he retires young with a mediocre career

poldebruin

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

waste of time signing him for those franchises the only chance of rg3 reclaiming his career is to go to a successful franchise with a coach capable of putting him to the side for an offseason or a year and developing him. if he goes to browns or bills he retires young with a mediocre career

I agree, the best thing for him mow would be to go and sit on a roster and regain his confidence, his health, learn the position and just basically mature, build relationships.

I also agree with a previous poster about RG3's rookie year. He was an amazing natural talent and what he was able to do in games that year did look special - would it be worth stashing him on a roster and let him sit and learn for a few years? Too much of a distraction?

Beefy78

Guys, as someone who has on,y really got into the league these lads couple of years is anyone able to recommend a game or two from RG3's rookie year when he really shone? I'd be keen to go back and watch on Gamepass.

JaMarcusHustle

He had a perfect passer rating against Philly in his rookie year, that's probably been his best game.

jack presley

Beefy78 wrote: »

Guys, as someone who has on,y really got into the league these lads couple of years is anyone able to recommend a game or two from RG3's rookie year when he really shone? I'd be keen to go back and watch on Gamepass.

Week 6 (I think) at home verses Minnesota. The game where he made that great run for a TD. Left everyone for dead.

Also the only Redskins game I was ever at so I'm probably biased in picking that one!

poldebruin

His first ever NFL game against the Saints was fantastic if I recall, and the (was it thanksgiving?) game against the Cowboys in Dallas was amazing too.

Billy86

Clementine Scary String wrote: »

waste of time signing him for those franchises the only chance of rg3 reclaiming his career is to go to a successful franchise with a coach capable of putting him to the side for an offseason or a year and developing him. if he goes to browns or bills he retires young with a mediocre career

With either defense (Houston or Buffalo), he likely won't need to put up much points at all to get a good few wins - they were the #4 (BUF) and #7 (HOU) defenses in the league last year. A big difference between those two and Cleveland is what he would have around him, which is why I never mentioned the team that calls The Factory of Sadness their home (I will never get over how awesome that name is, and am still sure it must have some vague Old Trafford 'Theatre of Dreams' reference ) .

In Houston he would have one of the best ground games and running backs in the league behind him, along with a legit quality #1 in DeAndre Hopkins, a solid and experienced #2 in Nate Washington, and a solid slot/trick player in Cecil Shorts One Two Three. In Buffalo he would again have one of the very best backs in the league in McCoy (who is also lethal as a receiver), an excellent 1-2 punch at WR in Robert Woods and Sammy Watkins, both young enough to be around another decade, one of the NFL's better slot/trick guys in Percy Harvin (though I find him a little overrated, and he comes over as a locker room cancer) and a very good TE in Charles Clay.

Having said that, I'm not too familiar/have forgotten at this point, or how good the lines of each team are. Greg Roman did a decent job with the 49ers but was more ground-and-pound as is Rex Ryan which would be a concern on one end, but also take pressure off RGIII having to do too much on the other. Bill O'Brien has a lot of experience with the Patriots, though he also was quite ground-and-pound last year (then again you have to ask how much the lack of QB talent played into that). So how they feel he would fit that type of system is of course very important, but they could take a look at how Seattle utilise Russel Wilson's lack of receiving options; trick plays, designed runs, etc... but then again he would have to cop on about taking contact.

Now I'm not saying he would instantly turn back into the 2013 RGIII or anything, and his leadership issues are the biggest red flag to me which would have to be taken under consideration... but the talent is there with him, and those two teams both have the talent in a hell of a lot of other places (on both sides of the ball), but no QB to put it all together.

MrKingsley

Of course he has talent and my problem wouldnt be with him moving franchises(he clearly has to).

But i think that if he was to get traded and made start for another season then his career could be over in the next 12 months.

Like others have said he needs to take a year or two to sit behind an established qb and coach to learn how to sit in the pocket and protect the ball.

It's not about tge talent around him though perhaps bill o brien may be able to fix him we don't know how he is with abs yet but I get the impression he wants a pocket passer and rg3 never was/will be that. But if he goes to play offense for Rex Ryan he will be killed. Also it should now be a long term thing for him it's not about what team he can start for now that sort of short mindedness is what's gotten him in trouble he needs to look at a stable franchise we here he can not start if he's not ready with a coach that can start from scratch with him.

jack presley

He needs to grow up, get off social media, get rid of his interns (why does he need one intern, never mind multiple interns?), stop doing interviews. This guy just can't stop putting his foot in his mouth off the field.

jack presley

jack presley wrote: »

He needs to grow up, get off social media, get rid of his interns (why does he need one intern, never mind multiple interns?), stop doing interviews. This guy just can't stop putting his foot in his mouth off the field.

ya i remember massive concerns after his first season that he spent that entire offseason building his brand and not a lot of time actually on the football field it seems hes not learned his lesson from that

skippymac6

Brady acquitted of any suspension in the Deflategate saga. Going forward any player will try his luck at the courts system if the evidence against them isnt clear cut.