Manchester United vs Arsenal Match Thread 9/3/15 k/o 19.45 BBC.

the incredible pudding

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ref could of easily put his hands out to play on regarding the De Maria fall. Yes no foul, not enough in it, but there was contact and player thought he'd take the free kick as he was under pressure. It could all have been different on another day.
It was not exactly a blatant dive, he grabbed at his arm he thought
'' ok I'll take the freekick''

He flopped like a fish out of water, in a manner that was entirely unrealistic and out of proportion in relation to the contact. It was very, very blatant.
The only way diving will stop in the game is if the ref consistently books players for what Di Maria did. They obviously don't currently but the more it happens, the better the game will be for it. He could and should have just taken the yellow, the same way that defenders take yellows when they're caught dragging someone back by the jersey or shoulder. Oliver is rightly being lauded for his performance this evening.

Chucky the tree

Must be to depressing for United fans to see they sold what would have been their best striker this season to a rival only to see him score to knock them out of the FA cup.

theoneeyedman

djPSB wrote: »

Great refereeing from Oliver tonight.

.

Abso****inglutely. English referees are too easy with frees and penalties for minimal 'contact'. Players like young, hazard, Di Maria, Rooney and increasingly sturridge to name just a few are jumping into defenders and creating penalties, frees and yellow cards.
I only hope he and other referees continue dishing out yellows for diving.

Schwiiing

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Must be to depressing for United fans to see they sold what would have been their best striker this season to a rival only to see him score to knock them out of the FA cup.

What?

Shanotheslayer

smileyj1987 wrote: »

But arsenal don't have the bottle to go to old trafford and get a result. United will beat them on Monday.

:pac::pac::pac:

PhlegmyMoses

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ref could of easily put his hands out to play on regarding the De Maria fall. Yes no foul, not enough in it, but there was contact and player thought he'd take the free kick as he was under pressure. It could all have been different on another day.
It was not exactly a blatant dive, he grabbed at his arm he thought
'' ok I'll take the freekick''

Finally some sense. This is what everyone forgets in their clamour to denounce diving. There is absolutely contact and it absolutely impedes you when running at pace. Was it a dive in the most basic sense? Yes. Deserving of a card? Not for me. Then he goes full idiot and grabs the ref so all arguments are moot as he probably should have seen a straight red.

Same goes for Januzaj. Absolutely impeded at the start and goes down late and theatrically. Was it a foul? Yes. Was it a dive?Yes. A card? No

Mickeroo

Ordinary man wrote: »

Unless they bottle it again

What does that nonsense even mean? Trying to cover Arsenal's ass are you? :pac:

Soups123

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I think Arsenal would have like Villa.
Bradford or Reading will be so hyped up and playing for their lives, that is never easy unless
Arsenal step up and show as much hunger . I don't think they will have that hunger, but they have the class.

Just beat United at Old Trafford but you don't think they'll have the bottle for Bradford or Reading............. Jesus wept

Peist2007

bad2dabone wrote: »

Danny Welbeck is the real winner tonight. Danny Welbeck ended Arsenal's hoodoo at Old Trafford. Danny Welbeck is through to the semi-finals.

Very happy for Danny Welbeck. Was disappointed in the boos but the reception was good overall. Never asked to leave, hope he wins the cup

PhlegmyMoses

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Must be to depressing for United fans to see they sold what would have been their best striker this season to a rival only to see him score to knock them out of the FA cup.

He has bern **** this season. Rooney has more goals from midfield.

recylingbin

Schwiiing wrote: »

The rest of them only appeared after Di Maria went off. Standard UTD match thread.

Dry your eyes, mate. :pac:

K4t

djPSB wrote: »

Great refereeing from Oliver tonight.

Top notch celebration from Welbz also.

Yeah, was very impressed with him issuing the second yellow to Di Maria. Will hopefully set an important precedent. No Utd fan could begrudge Welbeck celebrating tonight. And just to note, he didn't celebrate to either set of fans, but to his teammates.

SlickRic

Phil Neville looks depressed.

gosplan

Fellaini's so weird. I don't know what to make of him.

I kind of get the feeling that with him in the side you'll always be decent but never quite there.

Also nice to see players get booked for diving at Old Trafford. Shame it's about 10 years too late.

Schwiiing

Schwiiing wrote: »

What?

Don't bite!

efb

Notorious wrote: »

That's a bit much. I've seen worse.

i haven't seen united lately tbf

Corholio

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Finally some sense. This is what everyone forgets in their clamour to denounce diving. There is absolutely contact and it absolutely impedes you when running at pace. Was it a dive in the most basic sense? Yes. Deserving of a card? Not for me. Then he goes full idiot and grabs the ref so all arguments are moot as he probably should have seen a straight red.

Same goes for Januzaj. Absolutely impeded at the start and goes down late and theatrically. Was it a foul? Yes. Was it a dive?Yes. A card? No

I know what your saying, and the ref should have given the free before Januzaj goes down. But he then went on to dive, so the card was correct. Little tough on Januzaj but players have to be responsible for their individual actions.

bad2dabone

Must be said, best I've seen united playing in a long time. Fair play to them.

fullstop

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ref could of easily put his hands out to play on regarding the De Maria fall. Yes no foul, not enough in it, but there was contact and player thought he'd take the free kick as he was under pressure. It could all have been different on another day.
It was not exactly a blatant dive, he grabbed at his arm he thought
'' ok I'll take the freekick''

You don't actually believe what you've written here, do you?! It was a dive. He tried to cheat and was rightly booked and rightly sent off for the petulant reaction.

Agent Coulson

I can't believe they didn't comment on the red card what the hell is the point of having pundits and then not talk about a major point in the game!

Liam O

Hope Arsenal win it now, have been unlucky in recent seasons and are a lot stronger than their league position shows. The right signings and they'll be right up there next season. Coquelin was immense in that game.

Peist2007

bad2dabone wrote: »

Must be said, best I've seen united playing in a long time. Fair play to them.

We all know you watch little football though

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I can't believe they didn't comment on the red card what the hell is the point of having pundits and then not talk about a major point in the game!

Was thinking that myself. Weird they didn't mention it.

bad2dabone

Peist2007 wrote: »

We all know you watch little football though

Like united fans

Joking of course

Liam O

gosplan wrote: »

Fellaini's so weird. I don't know what to make of him.

I kind of get the feeling that with him in the side you'll always be decent but never quite there.

Also nice to see players get booked for diving at Old Trafford. Shame it's about 10 years too late.

He's being played in the wrong position. Deeper he was great against City and Chelsea earlier in the season and good at both ends of the pitch. Another of LVG's jokeworthy decisions.

RobertKK

I wouldn't worry for United, they have the money to buy a defense and midfield with £75 million from Adidas, over £50 million from Chevrolet, £20 million from Aon. Before you look at all the other money they bring in.

United will be back.

Shanotheslayer

rarnes1 wrote: »

Was thinking that myself. Weird they didn't mention it.

Was there much to say on the matter?

He grabbed the ref which you can't do, gets sent off. Hardly huge. Affected the game, but there's no debate if it's a Red or not.

RobertKK

rarnes1 wrote: »

Was thinking that myself. Weird they didn't mention it.

They didn't have much time, and not much to add to what the commentators already said.

K4t

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I can't believe they didn't comment on the red card what the hell is the point of having pundits and then not talk about a major point in the game!

They touched on it I think. It was an obvious second yellow so maybe they didn't feel the need to discuss it. Though they should have praised Oliver more for giving the second yellow.

Mocha Joe

Weird that Sanchez got a free kick and Di Maria got booked for diving for very similar situations within a few minutes of each other.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

Hope Arsenal win it now, have been unlucky in recent seasons and are a lot stronger than their league position shows. The right signings and they'll be right up there next season. Coquelin was immense in that game.

Would agree here. Out of the remaining teams in the competition Arsenal look the strongest team by far.
Corzola also played really well

RobertKK

It is probably good for United they didn't draw given the match would have been the same week as the Liverpool game.

NoelJ

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Weird that Sanchez got a free kick and Di Maria got booked for diving for very similar situations within a few minutes of each other.

except Sanchez didn't dive, Di Maria did?

Mocha Joe

Mocha Joe wrote: »

Weird that Sanchez got a free kick and Di Maria got booked for diving for very similar situations within a few minutes of each other.

But the ref got all the big decisions right....apparently

BorneTobyWilde

the incredible pudding wrote: »

He flopped like a fish out of water, in a manner that was entirely unrealistic and out of proportion in relation to the contact. It was very, very blatant.
The only way diving will stop in the game is if the ref consistently books players for what Di Maria did. They obviously don't currently but the more it happens, the better the game will be for it. He could and should have just taken the yellow, the same way that defenders take yellows when they're caught dragging someone back by the jersey or shoulder. Oliver is rightly being lauded for his performance this evening.

We see freekicks awarded week in week out when '' a player'' decides that he wants the freekick, even when the contact is not enough to bring him down ,but he goes down anyway, and typically a ref gives it or puts his hands out to play on as from his point of view not '' enough'' contact to justify a freekick.
What I'm saying is players go down like that all the time due to small contact, and ref would give it or not give it. What refs rarely do is book a player that goes down due to contact when no freekick was awarded. They simply play on typically.
There was a grab at his arm to hinder his balance and De Maria thought
''ok I'll take freekick''
Ref needed to shake his head and play on or award it.
It's not always a yellow if it's not a freekick.

Shanotheslayer

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Would agree here. Out of the remaining teams in the competition Arsenal look the strongest team by far.
Corzola also played really well

Yeh, it's not as if Liverpool are unbeaten in the last 3 months......... :pac:

jeffery lebowski

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ref could of easily put his hands out to play on regarding the De Maria fall. Yes no foul, not enough in it, but there was contact and player thought he'd take the free kick as he was under pressure. It could all have been different on another day.
It was not exactly a blatant dive, he grabbed at his arm he thought
'' ok I'll take the freekick''

Thats the problem - Players deciding to opt out and 'take the free kick'. Di Maria is paid €250,000 per week or whatever - he should bust a gut everytime and only settle for a free kick when the whistle goes and the referee awards one. He is paid to play, he seems to think (along with many utd players) that the referee is there to agree with their opinion of a challenge

PhlegmyMoses

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

We see freekicks awarded week in week out when '' a player'' decides that he wants the freekick, even when the contact is not enough to bring him down ,but he goes down anyway, and typically a ref gives it or puts his hands out to play on as from his point of view not '' enough'' contact to justify a freekick.
What I'm saying is players go down like that all the time due to small contact, and ref would give it or not give it. What refs rarely do is book a player that goes down due to contact when no freekick was awarded. They simply play on typically.
There was a grab at his arm to hinder his balance and De Maria thought
''ok I'll take freekick''
Ref needed to shake his head and play on or award it.
It's not always a yellow if it's not a freekick.

He did this earlier with Welbeck when Rojo had his arm on him. No free and no card.

efb

He went on took a stride to look for a penalty- bit of a difference

BorneTobyWilde

jeffery lebowski wrote: »

Thats the problem - Players deciding to opt out and 'take the free kick'. Di Maria is paid €250,000 per week or whatever - he should bust a gut everytime and only settle for a free kick when the whistle goes and the referee awards one. He is paid to play, he seems to think (along with many utd players) that the referee is there to agree with their opinion of a challenge

It's not right ,but players award their own freekicks all the time.They decide
''I'll take the free'' when the could easily decide to play on. Sometimes they think it's best to drop like they have been taken out by a sniper as it's a good area of the field for a freekick.
It's tactics.
I don't agree it was a blatant dive and that his balance was not hindered by the grabbing and pulling of his arm.

gosplan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

But the ref got all the big decisions right....apparently

He didn't get everything right. Welbeck should have had a peno.

He had a very strong game though. jesus, we spend the entire season criticising refs and we can't come out and say when one does pretty well.

No ref will get everything right. however, his mistakes didn't influence the game and he made a couple of strong decisions.

fullstop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

But the ref got all the big decisions right....apparently

He did.

rebeve

Half time subs killed Utd .

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

He didn't get everything right. Welbeck should have had a peno.

He had a very strong game though. jesus, we spend the entire season criticising refs and we can't come out and say when one does pretty well.

No ref will get everything right. however, his mistakes didn't influence the game and he made a couple of strong decisions.

Again arsenal should have been a man down for a second yellow. This would have had a major influence on the game and this was one of his mistakes

jeffery lebowski

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It's not right ,but players award their own freekicks all the time.They decide
''I'll take the free'' when the could easily decide to play on. Sometimes they think it's best to drop like they have been taken out by a sniper as it's a good area of the field for a freekick.
It's tactics.

I know its a wider argument - but this is the big problem with footbsll. Players with inflated egos who seem to be offended when a referee disagrees with 'their decision'.

This will never change until players get booked and/or sent off for confronting referees. Thats why I was glad to see Di Maria go tonight, even though I'm a Utd Fan

2ndcoming

For me Michael Oliver showed the biggest balls of any ref in 20 years with the Januzaj call right in front of the Stretford end.

Was a beautiful thing for me, and I'm sure the neutrals enjoyed it too.

Shanotheslayer

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Again arsenal should have been a man down for a second yellow. This would have had a major influence on the game and this was one of his mistakes

If going by that than Fellaini should have been sent off as well

BorneTobyWilde

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He did this earlier with Welbeck when Rojo had his arm on him. No free and no card.

Yes, so similar . Welbeck dropped, he could of stayed up. He thought he'd try for a penalty or freekick as he knew 100% he was grabbed, there was contact, lets go down.
Ref decided '' ok contact,but not enough to justify a freekick or penalty''
It's a contact sport.
But not a yellow either, no one was crying for a yellow for Welbeck.
De Maria was unlucky, he knew he was grabbed. I'm not sure ref saw that?
I'm sure ref only saw De Maria fall and saw no contact. So thats a yellow.
But replay shows players balance was hindered so he decided he wanted the freekick, and 18 times out of 20 he'd get it.

gosplan

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Again arsenal should have been a man down for a second yellow. This would have had a major influence on the game and this was one of his mistakes

Only if you think that's a yellow

Blue giant

One thing I don't understand is the disdain for diving. Januzaj goes down, automatic yellow card. Monreal clearly handles the ball, free kick no card. Why exactly is diving so much worse than handball. Both are clearly cheating. Both should be yellow cards.