Manchester United vs Arsenal Match Thread 9/3/15 k/o 19.45 BBC.

FutureGuy

2ndcoming wrote: »

For me Michael Oliver showed the biggest balls of any ref in 20 years with the Januzaj call right in front of the Stretford end.

Was a beautiful thing for me, and I'm sure the neutrals enjoyed it too.

In fairness, he'd be fcuking shot if he didn't. It's like applauding the man who says the grass is green.

KaiserGunner

Di Maria dived twice in the match, but the ref didn't book him the first time. So he only has himself to blame for diving again and getting the yellow.

2ndcoming

2ndcoming wrote: »

For me Michael Oliver showed the biggest balls of any ref in 20 years with the Januzaj call right in front of the Stretford end.

Was a beautiful thing for me, and I'm sure the neutrals enjoyed it too.

In fairness it was a very obvious dive.

Di Maria one was a better call on both counts

spiritcrusher

Saying Arsenal should've gone down to 10 was no where near as clear cut a decision as pulling the ref's shirt. Not every foul is a yellow, despite how aggressive one may look (as Fellaini well knows), but pulling a ref's shirt is as clear as day.

citytillidie

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I can't believe they didn't comment on the red card what the hell is the point of having pundits and then not talk about a major point in the game!

from what i saw between end of game and draw is when they talked about it

gosplan

gosplan wrote: »

Only if you think that's a yellow

And it wasn't one, ref was spot on

fullstop

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

But replay shows players balance was hindered so he decided he wanted the freekick, and 18 times out of 20 he'd get it.

This is gold! The only person that hindered DiMaria's balance was himself when he thought he'd try to con the ref like he does so often. And yes, 18 times out of 20 he would get it, because refs don't have the balls to make the correct decision.

jacool

Should have been 3 reds. Rojo Bellerin and Di Maria. Better team won judging by scoreline and 2 superb saves by De Gea. Arsenal Liverpool final on Gerrard's 35th birthday looks likely now.

greendom

It just seems like refs aren't afraid of Old Trafford any more

greendom

greendom wrote: »

It just seems like refs aren't afraid of Old Trafford any more

Or opposition teams tbf

BorneTobyWilde

Blue giant wrote: »

One thing I don't understand is the disdain for diving. Januzaj goes down, automatic yellow card. Monreal clearly handles the ball, free kick no card. Why exactly is diving so much worse than handball. Both are clearly cheating. Both should be yellow cards.

Not all handballs are yellows. Sometimes a player leans into a ball in a hope to chest it but ball drifts too far and hits arm. It's a freekick but a honest attempt to chest it.
Not the same as a player who reaches for a ball with hand to deflect it.

super_furry

Very surprised by the United fans tonight. Booing a local lad who grew up at Old Trafford and never wanted to leave the club in the first place wasn't something I expected to see.

Think van Gaal will be gone before the start of next season.

Utopia Parkway

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes, so similar . Welbeck dropped, he could of stayed up. He thought he'd try for a penalty or freekick as he knew 100% he was grabbed, there was contact, lets go down.
Ref decided '' ok contact,but not enough to justify a freekick or penalty''
It's a contact sport.
But not a yellow either, no one was crying for a yellow for Welbeck.
De Maria was unlucky, he knew he was grabbed. I'm not sure ref saw that?
I'm sure ref only saw De Maria fall and saw no contact. So thats a yellow.
But replay shows players balance was hindered so he decided he wanted the freekick, and 18 times out of 20 he'd get it.

His balance wasn't hindered. He dived. A brief little grab on the hand is not enough to knock a grown man over. He probably did feel the contact and then decided to fall over but the dive was a result of him throwing himself to the ground rather than any contact knocking him over.

2ndcoming

FutureGuy wrote: »

In fairness, he'd be fcuking shot if he didn't. It's like applauding the man who says the grass is green.

The past 20 yrs of gammy, soft penos and decisions haven't stuck in your head as much as they have for the rest of us clearly.

Blue giant

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Not all handballs are yellows. Sometimes a player leans into a ball in a hope to chest it but ball drifts too far and hits arm. It's a freekick but a honest attempt to chest it.
Not the same as a player who reaches for a ball with hand to deflect it.

And not every time a player falls to the floor is it a free kick or a dive. A deliberate dive should be a yellow. So too should be a deliberate handball. That rarely happens though.

Soups123

super_furry wrote: »

Very surprised by the United fans tonight. Booing a local lad who grew up at Old Trafford and never wanted to leave the club in the first place wasn't something I expected to see.

Think van Gaal will be gone before the start of next season.

In fairness they some boo'd initially but there were more clapping him from what I could hear

LuckyLloyd

2ndcoming wrote: »

For me Michael Oliver showed the biggest balls of any ref in 20 years with the Januzaj call right in front of the Stretford end.

Was a beautiful thing for me, and I'm sure the neutrals enjoyed it too.

Hard to describe how much I enjoyed it. Fantastic moment.

BorneTobyWilde

rarnes1 wrote: »

Or opposition teams tbf

It seems that way. But Man U have won as many home games as Chelsea,they are the only team who can match Chelseas win rate at home.

Liam O

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Hard to describe how much I enjoyed it. Fantastic moment.

You and the rest of the neutrals must have felt great alright Lloyd

BorneTobyWilde

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

His balance wasn't hindered. He dived. A brief little grab on the hand is not enough to knock a grown man over. He probably did feel the contact and then decided to fall over but the dive was a result of him throwing himself to the ground rather than any contact knocking him over.

Anything balanced can be pushed over by a child.

SlickRic

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

He did this earlier with Welbeck when Rojo had his arm on him. No free and no card.

I have a feeling, and I may be wrong, that di Maria had gone over easy-ish a couple of times already and Oliver may have gotten sick of it.

Accumulation maybe?

Van Gaal thought Valencia was the best Utd player.

Jaysus. he was serious too

fullstop

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Anything balanced can be pushed over by a child.

So DiMaria could be pushed over by a child? Drivel. Give it up, you're embarrassing yourself now.

SlickRic

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Again arsenal should have been a man down for a second yellow. This would have had a major influence on the game and this was one of his mistakes

Again, no they shouldn't.

It was a foul, nothing more.

you're talking like it was a stonewall booking. It really wasn't.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Again, no they shouldn't.

It was a foul, nothing more.

you're talking like it was a stonewall booking. It really wasn't.

And your taking it as a foul, nothing more.
It was a booking IMO.
Not sure why your word gets precedence it's an opinion also

I'm going to pull it up on YouTube so hold on
Might give you time to wash your eyes out

Demosthenese

United lucky to only lose by 1 in the end, De Gea (Who will surely be returning home to Madrid soon enough) took off a few exceptional saves once again. Arsenal still piling forward with 10 mins to go going for a perfect 3rd goal rather than to sit and consolidate. They were all over the place when they were against 10 men.
United hoofing the ball towards Fellaini is a sight to behold these days. Spurs next week must be watching that thinking they have a great chance to snatch the game. For me though i still find it strange to watch Man United at home, conceding goals and playing route 1 football.

LVG sold a dream at the start of the season, Philosophy, it bought him more time and patience than expected. It's becoming interesting to see people start to turn on him.

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Again, no they shouldn't.

It was a foul, nothing more.

you're talking like it was a stonewall booking. It really wasn't.

Fellaini should have been off going by the logic that was a foul

fullstop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

And your taking it as a foul, nothing more.
It was a booking IMO.
Not sure why your word gets precedence it's an opinion also

I'm going to pull it up on YouTube so hold on
Might give you time to wash your eyes out

Probably because you get your knickers in a twist every time United don't win so your opinion is clouded by that. Just my take on it.

fullstop

fullstop wrote: »

Probably because you get your knickers in a twist every time United don't win so your opinion is clouded by that. Just my take on it.

A bad take on it, but your take non the less

gandalf

TBH I though Bellerin was gone after that tackle and was surprised the ref didn't produce the second yellow. Wenger obviously saw that as well because he subbed him very soon after that tackle as well.

monkey9

gandalf wrote: »

TBH I though Bellerin was gone after that tackle and was surprised the ref didn't produce the second yellow. Wenger obviously saw that as well because he subbed him very soon after that tackle as well.

Is he the lad you's got from Legia?

gandalf

gandalf wrote: »

TBH I though Bellerin was gone after that tackle and was surprised the ref didn't produce the second yellow. Wenger obviously saw that as well because he subbed him very soon after that tackle as well.

It's the team ABU with there clouded judgement.
Wenger was lucky he had the chance to sub him but the correct call from Wenger for sure.
A great sub in the end.

SlickRic

M!Ck^ wrote: »

I'm going to pull it up on YouTube so hold on
Might give you time to wash your eyes out

And while you're at it, you can dry your own eyes.

United lost to the better team, and but for De Gea, the scoreline would've been worse.

Looper007

monkey9 wrote: »

Is he the lad you's got from Legia?

No from the Barca youth system, great player and he's some pace on him. Thought he was gone after he fouled Young the second time.

SlickRic

gandalf wrote: »

TBH I though Bellerin was gone after that tackle and was surprised the ref didn't produce the second yellow. Wenger obviously saw that as well because he subbed him very soon after that tackle as well.

Just because he took him off does not mean he thought the foul was a 2nd booking, it just means that he knew Bellerin was at a risk of accumulation of fouls with any further fouls and giving the ref a decision to make if he fouled again.

Iused2likebusts

Utds transfer business in the post Fergie era has been awful. Luckily for them they have pots of money to fix the problems.

gandalf

monkey9 wrote: »

Is he the lad you's got from Legia?

Naw that's Bielik, he hasn't played for the senior team yet. Wenger is taking his time with him.

AdamD

On a normal day I'd expect Bellerin to go but the ref set the precedent with the Fellaini fouls. 8 fouls and 1 yellow card. That Rojo tackle however was far worse than anything Januzaj or Di Maria did.

gandalf

SlickRic wrote: »

Just because he took him off does not mean he thought the foul was a 2nd booking, it just means that he knew Bellerin was at a risk of accumulation of fouls with any further fouls and giving the ref a decision to make if he fouled again.

Definitely but my gut feeling right after the tackle was bugger we're fecked here. Thankfully Bellerin didn't throw himself onto the ground like a sack of potatoes so he was safe with that ref :P

SlickRic

SlickRic wrote: »

Just because he took him off does not mean he thought the foul was a 2nd booking, it just means that he knew Bellerin was at a risk of accumulation of fouls with any further fouls and giving the ref a decision to make if he fouled again.

Now you are a mind reader

Liam O

SlickRic wrote: »

Again, no they shouldn't.

It was a foul, nothing more.

you're talking like it was a stonewall booking. It really wasn't.

I think it's a booking if there was no previous booking. Was a 50/50 call really.

As for Fellaini, he didn't get booked for a while because his fouls were non events, as a result of him being there more than anything. I somehow don't think Coquelin would have gotten the same stick.

fullstop

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Now you are a mind reader

Ah sure he's just an ABU mick, like the rest of them.

eagle eye

I was certain that Bellerin was gone for the foul on Young too. I think he should have gone too, I think that tackle was a yellow and I think he deserved a yellow for accumulation too.

Rojo should have been gone too, he got away without a card for an awful tackle before the even worse one that got him carded.

2ndcoming

eagle eye wrote: »

I was certain that Bellerin was gone for the foul on Young too. I think he should have gone too, I think that tackle was a yellow and I think he deserved a yellow for accumulation too.

Rojo should have been gone too, he got away without a card for an awful tackle before the even worse one that got him carded.

It was his second foul of the match though?

Shanotheslayer

2ndcoming wrote: »

It was his second foul of the match though?

Rojos? Can't slide in behind a player it's wreckless and can be a straught red.

eagle eye

2ndcoming wrote: »

It was his second foul of the match though?

Just thinking about it you might be right but he was constantly in tussles with Young and for some reason I thought he had more but thinking back I don't remember any fouls being given against him after the yellow card early on, even though I thought he got away with a couple.

Quazzie

2ndcoming wrote: »

It was his second foul of the match though?

Bellerin got booked for his first foul of the match. What's your point?

Mikeyt086

Where do we even go from here? We have so many passengers in our squad it's actually unbelievable.

As our leaders and big game players have aged and moved on, they have been replaced with players who go hiding when the crowd get up for it. It used to be that the Old Trafford roar drove players to find the ball and fix the ****ing problem, now the players literally run away. The amount of times Rojo, Blind, Shaw, and Valencia tried to bring the ball out from the back and had nobody within 30 yards of them is a joke.

I love Ander Herrera, but he needs to go on a De Gea style bulking diet, because he's being pushed around so much that he's ineffective.

Daley Blind is a gifted passer, but he's an absolutely shocking athlete. He can't run or jump and he's gassed after an hour. He undoubtedly has the best hair in the Premier League, but even that isn't a consolation for our current form.

Fellaini is doing fine, I've no problem with him personally, but the way the other players play when he is there makes him absolute poison. Playing him at 10 is actually an embarrassment, and I see absolutely no reason why he should play there ahead of Juan Mata.

Wayne Rooney is our best striker, but he is also our best midfielder and probably our best defender too. When we play him up front, he will get us a goal here and there, but he is utterly starved of possession, and he can't play like that, he has football ADD. That's why Van Gaal played him in the middle, because he can get the ball there. He was a brilliant striker when he had Carrick, Scholes, and two wide wingers supplying him, but now? Trying to get onto Fellaini's knock-downs? How can he be the player we need him to be like that?

Di Maria needs to take a break. We paid £60m for a player in the FIFPro World XI and he is one of the biggest negative effects on the team. He loses the ball more than anyone I've ever seen, and often the result is a direct counter attack. That is not the player he is. We saw at the start of the season what he can do, so at this point I say drop him, and ask him to get his head right.

Tonight we lost to Arsenal, at home, with a midfield three of Coquelin, Cazorla, and Ozil. Any top team would field a midfield that would absolutely plough through that lot. Good on the ball, but children physically. We were beaten by them.

We are so easy to play against. Just get men behind the ball and wait till we **** it up and gift you a chance. That's it. Every team knows that, every game until the end of the season is going to be like that. We have so many players that look like they are about to **** their pants when they get the ball, and most of them do, regularly.

The absolute worst part is that we keep tuning in, or making the trip over, week after week, just hoping that it's all going to "click" and we're off on a run. Does anyone honestly expect that to happen? I just don't see how it is.

After such a negative post I feel obligated to throw a few positives in, for my own mental health more than anything. Luke Shaw is brilliant and will only get better, Ashley Young is working his arse off and giving everything he has, Wayne Rooney is still a very good footballer.

****.

MythicalMadMan

I think its funny how a ref, who was called a cheat, a homer, the 12th man earlier in the thread is now being lauded as the greatest reffing performance ever just doesnt make sense.

He was incredibly inconsistent the whole game.