Crufts 2015

HeidiHeidi

Knine wrote: »

It happened when she took him off the table after the BIS judge examined him. I don't think the judge seen it.

Ah, I see it now - lifted him by head and tail.

Hmmmm.

Judge looked like he'd just turned around and would have seen it.

SillyMangoX

I just saw a video posted online of a protest after the BIS was announced, it wasn't shown on telly. Someone ran into the ring and held up a sign saying something like "mutts, not crufts". They got him out fairly quick.

belongtojazz

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

Did anyone see the Irish lad come second in the agility? I think his dog was called Roxy and his name was Neil/Niall. He did really well.

His name is Neil and the dog is foxy roxy, he has handled her for the last year while her owner was off having a baby. They won Irish top large agility dog of the year 2014 so qualified for Crufts. I was there watching that and he was brilliant! that was a rotten course and was some achievement to get her around it.

the_monkey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31792152

Seems it's certain that dog was poisoned, what a ****ty thing to do ...

kylith

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Ah, I see it now - lifted him by head and tail.

Hmmmm.

Judge looked like he'd just turned around and would have seen it.

I was shocked to see her lift the dog by neck and tail. I thought she seemed to be jabbing it in the ribs a lot too; at one point I'm sure I saw the dog shy away from her hand.

So sad to hear about the poisoned setter. Because the layout is so open I'd say it would be very easy for someone to slip meat to a dog, and with the thousands of people milling around it'd be nigh-on impossible to catch them.

Overall, I was glad to hear them talk about what to look for from a responsible breeder re: dna tests, but disappointed to see that they still have a long way to go in fixing 'broken' breeds like the GSD and the Bassett

fryup

the_monkey wrote: »

Seems it's certain that dog was poisoned, what a ****ty thing to do ...

a jealous rival competitor ?

surely they'll be caught with all the cctv in there

ZiabR

fryup wrote: »

a jealous rival competitor ?

surely they'll be caught with all the cctv in there

Reports of other dogs falling ill aswell but no other deaths...

the_monkey

I just find it hard to imagine that a competitor would do this ?

You would think these people should be dog lovers ...

Knine

I would imagine it was not another competitor. There are certain organisations that would rather not see animals as pets. There was also a protest in the Best in Show Ring.

Frigga_92

belongtojazz wrote: »

His name is Neil and the dog is foxy roxy, he has handled her for the last year while her owner was off having a baby. They won Irish top large agility dog of the year 2014 so qualified for Crufts. I was there watching that and he was brilliant! that was a rotten course and was some achievement to get her around it.

Yeah he was great. He seemed to have a different approach to the course as well, standing at opposite sides of the jumps and stuff like that.

kylith wrote: »

I was shocked to see her lift the dog by neck and tail. I thought she seemed to be jabbing it in the ribs a lot too; at one point I'm sure I saw the dog shy away from her hand.

Yeah I saw her poking the dog a few times and when they were standing by the winner's podium she poked her again and Knopa moved back a small bit from her.

borderlinemeath

Crufts have put up a statement on their facebook page regarding Knopas handling. Apparently the handler was told repeatedly that handling like that is unacceptable at Crufts but did it anyway! :mad:

https://www.facebook.com/Crufts?fref=ts

tk123

Surely if she did it anyway she should have been disqualified?

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

Surely if she did it anyway she should have been disqualified?

Exactly! Lots of posters on the facebook page are calling for her disqualification. Letting her away with it because she's American and it's an acceptable way to handle terriers over there shouldn't be used as an excuse. They said all handlers were told in writing before the competition. In American ear cropping and tail docking are still acceptable forms of mutilation in the ring but they're not allowed at crufts so why should this?

Frigga_92

It was awful to see, especially at such an important part of the competition, where all eyes were on them, what sort of message did that send out to people watching? Imagine how many people saw her handling Knopa like that?

The woman should be banned from Crufts for disobeying the rules. If someone disobeys the rules and doesn't get punished, then other people will think it's okay to break the rules.

Reading more about it, apparently she was handling Knopa like this throughout the different stages to get to the BIS ring and was warned about it numerous times. Surely, she shouldn't have been allowed to progress that far while breaking the rules? The judges have a lot to answer for if they saw her handling Knopa like this and did nothing about it.

Also, the BIS judge himself has a lot to answer for. There is no way on earth he didn't see it happen. He had just turned around to face her as she lifted Knopa down. He should've called a halt to everything there and then and dealt with the matter.

kylith

The mini schnauzer and toy poodle were also lifted by the throat, but thankfully not by the tail. Still disgraceful though - a dog should be supported under the chest when lifted but doubtless that would mess up the oh-so-pretty haircuts.

She's not the only one with talk of cruelty either. Apparently a Canadian competitor was seen smacking his dog in the car park
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1031421346875185&set=a.108214149195914.15291.100000219885985&type=1

Penny Tration

kylith wrote: »

The mini schnauzer and toy poodle were also lifted by the throat, but thankfully not by the tail. Still disgraceful though - a dog should be supported under the chest when lifted but doubtless that would mess up the oh-so-pretty haircuts.

She's not the only one with talk of cruelty either. Apparently a Canadian competitor was seen smacking his dog in the car park
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1031421346875185&set=a.108214149195914.15291.100000219885985&type=1

He was seen beating and choking the poor little mite, not just smacking it.

kylith

Jenny Thalia wrote: »

He was seen beating and choking the poor little mite, not just smacking it.

Bastard! I hope he gets what he deserves.

Frigga_92

:eek: That's awful!

Tranceypoo

tk123 wrote: »

Surely if she did it anyway she should have been disqualified?

There's a petition now, to have her disqualified, since Crufts don't seem to want to do it!

hdowney

crufts had just managed to get their reputation back on track and all the goings on this year is certainly not going to help 😆

hdowney

wrong smilie

Zapperzy

Reports on today fm that a second Irish setter is ill with suspected poisoning.

ene

knopa really seemed to not like the handler like comparing to Dublin, that handler really seemed to love her dog-

the other one looked like my mum walking my dog- a mixture of annoyance and hatred with a touch of inconvenience!!

gimmick

Was over there on Friday. Had a blast in the arena. The agility runs are so much fun to watch and funny seeing people, myself included, getting so into it. Its the barking that cracks me up though.

The flyball was great as usual. felt awful for the poor guy who got injured, but by all accounts he was fine afterwards.

Was just a bit disappointed that once we were done in the arena after the flyball, most of the dog pens with the different breeds had all left for the day. Still got to meet some cool pups but not enough.

Hopefully next year again

cocker5

I have to be honest and say imnot a fan of crufts at all… I hate to think the dogs go through… endless grooming… hair spray and god only knows..


IMO a lot of people are in itfor the money (prospect of breeding from a winning dog / bitch etc.). and don’t get me started on the “perfect breed” thing


For me I see a dog as a pet..not a prize…. Anyhoo…


I did change the channel and it happened to be on the “best in show” where the black Scottie won… im going to have to be honest when I was watching she kept kind of poking to poor dog (he didn’t look happy at all).. she kept trying to get him to stand or move his bum.. just a really swift quick poke.. so quick you can barely see it (look atthe footage again and tell me if im right)… then when she picked him up by his tail… im sorry but she needs slap…


Plus “apparently it’s the Norm in the US” – maybe so.. maybe not….(but I doubt it) but it’s not the norm in Europe

But I can tell you what I saw out of ALL the dogs in the final he looked the most unhappy… the poor fella… I feel very sorry for him

Knine

Cocker5 you could not be more wrong about being in it for the money. You lose at more shows then you ever win & it costs a small fortune to campaign dogs. A top winning dog does not mean they will produce top winning puppies. There is a lot more to it then that. How much do you reckon it costs firstly to qualify for Crufts & then to enter, ferry, hotel, petrol, pet passport, grooming.........

As for all the grooming well I have seen the Pet Dogs who are not groomed, full of fleas, ticks. My own dogs love being groomed & are looked after better then the vast majority of pet dogs.

When people are looking for quality pure bred pet dogs, how do you think they are produced? If it were not for very dedicated breeders then there would be no quality puppies with correct breed characteristics.

muddypaws

gimmick wrote: »

Was just a bit disappointed that once we were done in the arena after the flyball, most of the dog pens with the different breeds had all left for the day. Still got to meet some cool pups but not enough.

Hopefully next year again

Dogs aren't allowed to leave until 4pm, and most get in around 8am, so its a long day for them.

The easiest way to change things is from the inside. Crufts and the Kennel Club are actually improving, and in my opinion, are one of the best in the world when it comes to welfare. It was stated in the paperwork sent out to all exhibitors that terriers cannot be picked up by the tail, as has been said on here, it is still acceptable in other countries, so the KC are trying to do the right thing. Of course if they don't follow through, then you'd wonder what the point is though. My dog is a neutered male, all I had to do to show in under KC rules was inform them of that fact, no reason had to be given, and they sent me a letter to take to shows. Even though he is an Irish dog, he cannot enter Irish shows, as the IKC don't allow it. So I honestly do believe that they are trying to move in the right direction with a lot of things. Crufts has welfare stands, with different rescues using them over the weekend.

If Kennel clubs and other organisations are too strict with their rules, then unfortunately, people being people, all that happens is that other organisations are set up. A case in point is here, with Canine Ireland being an alternative registration service to the IKC, with far fewer restrictions.

fiounnalbe

Knine wrote: »

Cocker5 you could not be more wrong about being in it for the money. You lose at more shows then you ever win & it costs a small fortune to campaign dogs. A top winning dog does not mean they will produce top winning puppies. There is a lot more to it then that. How much do you reckon it costs firstly to qualify for Crufts & then to enter, ferry, hotel, petrol, pet passport, grooming.........

As for all the grooming well I have seen the Pet Dogs who are not groomed, full of fleas, ticks. My own dogs love being groomed & are looked after better then the vast majority of pet dogs.

When people are looking for quality pure bred pet dogs, how do you think they are produced? If it were not for very dedicated breeders then there would be no quality puppies with correct breed characteristics.

I think theres a difference between grooming a dog so he is well kempt and then theres the extreme grooming that happens some (not all) of the poor dogs at shows, they have weird tight jumpers on so their fur doesnt move, some with their ears pinned to their heads in polo neck clothing to stop their ears moving, and ive even seen some with what looked like curlers in...im sorry but curling your dogs fur??? Thats bizarre and a cruel, dog must be uncomfortable and bored out of their tree getting it done.

With regard quality bred dogs with good characteristics of the breed, if the poor sloped German Shepherds that are shown are whats meant to be a good charcterstic of their breed....id rather have one with the opposite charcterstics myself.

I hope that in my life time we see a complete change in the way dogs are shown and judged. One that has more emphasis on the breeds actual fit for purpose that they keep hammering on about and not which one has been brushed to an inch of his life and can walk around a tiny green area. And proper judges who understand dogs body language, how dogs should be handled, dogs anatomy and health.

cocker5

Knine wrote: »

Cocker5 you could not be more wrong about being in it for the money. You lose at more shows then you ever win & it costs a small fortune to campaign dogs. A top winning dog does not mean they will produce top winning puppies. There is a lot more to it then that. How much do you reckon it costs firstly to qualify for Crufts & then to enter, ferry, hotel, petrol, pet passport, grooming.........

As for all the grooming well I have seen the Pet Dogs who are not groomed, full of fleas, ticks. My own dogs love being groomed & are looked after better then the vast majority of pet dogs.

When people are looking for quality pure bred pet dogs, how do you think they are produced? If it were not for very dedicated breeders then there would be no quality puppies with correct breed characteristics.

Knine - dunno why you are so defensive, while you look after your dogs well... there's no doubt there, looking at "some" of Crufts this year the dogs weren't treated as well as they should be -regardless of how well they are groomed etc. and i do believe some people are in it for the money.

where did i say grooming was bad for a dog?? I said "the endless grooming" and i stand by that, the fact that hair spray is used on the dogs - that's hardly normal now is it.

My dog is very well looked after and he's just a pet (a pure breed cocker spaniel with papers).. he gets groomed every 8 weeks... yet he is still able to run in the mud and be a dog.. he doesn't have to be on show, stand in the "correct" positon or he will be poked etc ... picked up by his tail etc...

Not to mention the state of some of the dogs... German Shepard (sloped back comes to mind)... so no i don't believe that people who enter Crufts bred quality pure bred pet dogs as you put it above... its more about prestige than anything else... that's just my opinion, I am entitled to it just as much as you are.

Infact the black scottie who won.. looked soo miserable... im sure he'd rather be somewhere else... being a dog

tk123

cocker5 wrote: »

Knine - dunno why you are so defensive, while you look after your dogs well... there's no doubt there, looking at "some" of Crufts this year the dogs weren't treated as well as they should be -regardless of how well they are groomed etc. and i do believe some people are in it for the money.

where did i say grooming was bad for a dog?? I said "the endless grooming" and i stand by that, the fact that hair spray is used on the dogs - that's hardly normal now is it.

My dog is very well looked after and he's just a pet (a pure breed cocker spaniel with papers).. he gets groomed every 8 weeks... yet he is still able to run in the mud and be a dog.. he doesn't have to be on show, stand in the "correct" positon or he will be poked etc ... picked up by his tail etc...

Not to mention the state of some of the dogs... German Shepard (sloped back comes to mind)... so no i don't believe that people who enter Crufts bred quality pure bred pet dogs as you put it above... its more about prestige than anything else... that's just my opinion, I am entitled to it just as much as you are.

Infact the black scottie who won.. looked soo miserable... im sure he'd rather be somewhere else... being a dog

The guy with the poodle last year said that the dog lived a normal life and got mucky and dirty like any other dog. The dogs are groomed for shows - you're making it sound like the owners are grooming them non stop?


TBH I'd rather see a well groomed dog at a show with it's proper coat then some of the dogs I see walking around scalped to an inch of their lives, stinking of "baby powder cologne" and shivering in a jumper because their owners don't want to have to deal with the coat the dog should have?

Knine

cocker5 wrote: »

Knine - dunno why you are so defensive, while you look after your dogs well... there's no doubt there, looking at "some" of Crufts this year the dogs weren't treated as well as they should be -regardless of how well they are groomed etc. and i do believe some people are in it for the money.

where did i say grooming was bad for a dog?? I said "the endless grooming" and i stand by that, the fact that hair spray is used on the dogs - that's hardly normal now is it.

My dog is very well looked after and he's just a pet (a pure breed cocker spaniel with papers).. he gets groomed every 8 weeks... yet he is still able to run in the mud and be a dog.. he doesn't have to be on show, stand in the "correct" positon or he will be poked etc ... picked up by his tail etc...

Not to mention the state of some of the dogs... German Shepard (sloped back comes to mind)... so no i don't believe that people who enter Crufts bred quality pure bred pet dogs as you put it above... its more about prestige than anything else... that's just my opinion, I am entitled to it just as much as you are.

Infact the black scottie who won.. looked soo miserable... im sure he'd rather be somewhere else... being a dog

Not defensive at all. Just trying to explain things to you with obviously not much experience of the show world. So you have a purebred Cocker Spaniel. Who do you think helps keep Cocker Spaniels looking and acting like Cockers? Why the very people you are ranting about in your post. You get your dog groomed every 8 weeks? Would this just be getting his coat shaved off? There is grooming and there is shaving a dogs coat. They are two vastly different Skills.

As for allowing dogs to be dogs. I lol at this. I can assure you that the vast majority of show dogs are family pets when at home, they do all the things your dog does, in fact many of them do much more. Many show dogs have working qualifications too. You keep mentioning the German Shepard Dog. Well we all know things need to change in some areas. However we are going in the right direction. As for lifting dogs by their tails. I cringed when I seen it done, however as a terrier person I can also tell you that certain terrier breeds have tails designed to be used to take them from underground in a hurry. These are the dogs you mention are not let be dogs. Well many Show Terriers are also working Terriers. My own go to ground no problem unlike the many 'fat' pet terriers of the same breed. Exhibitors had been told via their Cruft's passes not to handle in this manner. This lady chose to ignore it but I'm pretty sure in the heat of the BIS moment she may also just have forgot. I'm am pretty sure that next year it will be made a rule for no lifting by the tails. Things are improving big time in the KC and I'm hoping our own IKC will follow on.

ABajaninCork

I have to say I can see the points and agree with Knine as well as Cocker5 in some respects.

We were at Crufts this year and had tickets for the BIS. Totally agree with Cocker5's comment about the Scottie. He was a dear little chap, but didn't look at all happy. A point my husband picked up on straight away. The little guy looked tired, and fed up - he was barely moving his little legs around the ring. and I HATED the way the poor little guy was handled. I really wanted to rush down to the ring and snatch the dog up! :mad: I thought the little Maltese should have won, and I would have placed the Malumite. Both were much better dogs IMO than the Scottie, even though he was a lovely dog. I also liked the Flat-coated Retriever who was a real showman. Dog never stopped smiling and wagging his tail. You could see how much he enjoyed the spotlight, and the owner obviously treated her dog very well.

I agree with Knine about grooming the dogs well. As some of you may know, I own a long-coated breed (Shih Tzu). He's kept well-groomed and is bathed and clipped on a regular basis. Grooming not only improves the coat, but is important in bonding with your dog. If you check the dog over often, you can also keep an eye out for potential problems, and nip them in the bud. I also have to agree with Cocker5 about the excessive grooming of some of the long-haired breeds. We saw more than one Shih Tzu with curlers in their hair!! FFS - What was THAT about??

But - we had a great time (although VERY tiring!). Wallets and CC's took a beating, and we're making plans to return next year! :P

SillyMangoX

Just on the curlers thing, I don't think they are actual curlers. I used to think they were but my cousin who shows Maltese and yorkies told me he pins up the dogs hair in those curler things so the end of the coat doesn't get dirty coming up to shows, esp for the Maltese who would be horsing it around the garden in the muck ruining that lovely white coat, much easier to keep their coat in condition, the dogs don't even notice! Not sure if this is the same for everyone but it made sense to me

cocker5

Knine wrote: »

Not defensive at all. Just trying to explain things to you with obviously not much experience of the show world. So you have a purebred Cocker Spaniel. Who do you think helps keep Cocker Spaniels looking and acting like Cockers? Why the very people you are ranting about in your post. You get your dog groomed every 8 weeks? Would this just be getting his coat shaved off? There is grooming and there is shaving a dogs coat. They are two vastly different Skills.

As for allowing dogs to be dogs. I lol at this. I can assure you that the vast majority of show dogs are family pets when at home, they do all the things your dog does, in fact many of them do much more. Many show dogs have working qualifications too. You keep mentioning the German Shepard Dog. Well we all know things need to change in some areas. However we are going in the right direction. As for lifting dogs by their tails. I cringed when I seen it done, however as a terrier person I can also tell you that certain terrier breeds have tails designed to be used to take them from underground in a hurry. These are the dogs you mention are not let be dogs. Well many Show Terriers are also working Terriers. My own go to ground no problem unlike the many 'fat' pet terriers of the same breed. Exhibitors had been told via their Cruft's passes not to handle in this manner. This lady chose to ignore it but I'm pretty sure in the heat of the BIS moment she may also just have forgot. I'm am pretty sure that next year it will be made a rule for no lifting by the tails. Things are improving big time in the KC and I'm hoping our own IKC will follow on.

Honest to god... patronising much???

your dogs are perfect in every way...

Im bowing out as you have a bee in your bonnet about Crufts... the way you have posted above, your attitude reflected in your posts is the very reason i don't like Crufts - prestige

everyone is entitled to their opinion..(even me) but where Crufts is concerned you obsiviously don't agree...

Its like in America a kids beauty pageant but for dogs...

Over and Out - im not debating this any further with you.

borderlinemeath

I have no experience of Crufts, or professional dog showing but from bringing my dogs to the local county fair and entering them into fun dog shows, they absolutely love it, they love the attention of people and the crowds and meeting other dogs. Now they barely got a brush down before it and are a pair of rough and tumble dogs that spend most of their time in ditches but it was a bit of craic for them and they really enjoyed it . I'm sure there are some dogs who's personality doesn't necessarily suit the show ring, or may not enjoy the noises or the lights but I'd be fairly sure their owners would recognise this. I'd go to every fun/amateur show with mine now, seeing as they adore the adulation!

Knine

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I have no experience of Crufts, or professional dog showing but from bringing my dogs to the local county fair and entering them into fun dog shows, they absolutely love it, they love the attention of people and the crowds and meeting other dogs. Now they barely got a brush down before it and are a pair of rough and tumble dogs that spend most of their time in ditches but it was a bit of craic for them and they really enjoyed it . I'm sure there are some dogs who's personality doesn't necessarily suit the show ring, or may not enjoy the noises or the lights but I'd be fairly sure their owners would recognise this. I'd go to every fun/amateur show with mine now, seeing as they adore the adulation!

Yep sometimes you would get a dog that did not like showing and they are retired fairly quick! Most dogs love it. There is great excitement when the show stuff comes out. There is murder if anyone is left behind. We use treats and toys to reward them. After a show I often head to the beach for mine to go swimming.

muddypaws

I was at a long distance sled dog trek the weekend before Crufts, and most of the dogs getting muddy in the Welsh hills were in the show ring at Crufts then on the Friday. A lot of the siberian huskies were going to a sibe club rally the day after Crufts, so either went straight off to Norfolk to camp out, or home and an early start. We went to a night rally in the New Forest the day after instead, and again, there were quite a few people there with dogs that had been in the Crufts show ring the day before. I've often said it, that I don't think a dog from a working breed should be allowed to become a show champion until it has proved itself in its working environment. If a dog has great conformation, and so will do well in a show ring, it should also therefore be able to work well.

Knine

muddypaws wrote: »

I was at a long distance sled dog trek the weekend before Crufts, and most of the dogs getting muddy in the Welsh hills were in the show ring at Crufts then on the Friday. A lot of the siberian huskies were going to a sibe club rally the day after Crufts, so either went straight off to Norfolk to camp out, or home and an early start. We went to a night rally in the New Forest the day after instead, and again, there were quite a few people there with dogs that had been in the Crufts show ring the day before. I've often said it, that I don't think a dog from a working breed should be allowed to become a show champion until it has proved itself in its working environment. If a dog has great conformation, and so will do well in a show ring, it should also therefore be able to work well.

I would tend to agree. All my dogs can work. However I can imagine there might be welfare concerns with certain breeds because the original job there were bred for is now outlawed. I get a little sad when I see some examples of my favourite breeds let get fat and lazy when they are a working breed at heart. Lots of my friends who show have dogs that work, many with working certificates. A gundog must be called Show Champion rather then Champion until it has passed a working test. People making comments that show dogs are not let be real dogs could not be further then the truth in most cases.

muddypaws

Knine wrote: »

I would tend to agree. All my dogs can work. However I can imagine there might be welfare concerns with certain breeds because the original job there were bred for is now outlawed. I get a little sad when I see some examples of my favourite breeds let get fat and lazy when they are a working breed at heart. Lots of my friends who show have dogs that work, many with working certificates. A gundog must be called Show Champion rather then Champion until it has passed a working test. People making comments that show dogs are not let be real dogs could not be further then the truth in most cases.

Yeah, there could well be difficulties with some of the 'jobs', but things can be adapted, a sibe running 3 or 4 miles isn't really what they were bred for, but it does give you an idea of whether they are capable of it or not. I guess he biggest issues would be with the bull breeds, not sure what you could do to test their work ethic, maybe things like spring poles etc?

It was the first time I've been to Crufts, and I'm not sure I would go again, and I'm definitely not a dog shower, being back out in a moonlit forest on the Saturday night, just me and my dawgs I felt at home. However, I did see an awful lot of people with well cared for dogs at Crufts, that are obviously loved, and it isn't just about the show rings. The big discover dogs section was brilliant to see, as well as information about health testing, and the career's section, for people to see if they could earn a living whilst working with dogs was also great. Seeing assistance dogs, agility, flyball, the canicross demo etc, dogs are such a huge part of so many peoples' lives, its fascinating to see the different ways that this is so. People have many different hobbies, and I think if this is how some people want to spend time with their dogs and their friends, and they're not doing anybody else any harm, then they should just go along and enjoy it. I know there is debate about some grooming, and how the dogs are presented, and to me, a dog is a dog, it looks how its meant to look, and I know I couldn't own a dog that needs a lot of work to look presentable in the show ring, but then I'm just lazy, a quick brush and we're away

Knine

I still think that Ireland is behind the times compared to the UK though. It always seems a lot more dog friendly and there is more opportunity for hobbies such as flyball, heel work to music etc. I went to some lectures too which were very good.

I qualified my dog but did not bring him because of the costs involved. I mainly go to stock up on grooming stuff, you can also get wormers/flea treatments at good prices. I also like to look at potential stud dogs/breeding lines and pups they have produced. I bring my daughter with me because I would much rather she was interested in dogs then some of the other 'hobbies' she could get into

fiounnalbe

My main problem with grooming is just the extremity of it, like the woman who won BiB was literally brushing down his coat every 2 seconds, I dont think they should be judged on whether every fur strand is straight but rather on how healthy their fur is overall. It almost make a farce of the situation, like its a beauty pageant.

My biggest gripe was not with the handlers and dogs (although there were a few prodders and pokers who should be reprimanded) my problem lies with the judges. I dont understand how a quick glance in their mouth and 5 sec rub down can tell them which dog is best? Yes they watch their gait too but still if all just seems a bit superficial to me. Not to mention that judge with the Malinois, if he didnt understand basic body language what right did he have judging dogs?? There needs to be higher standards set on judging imo. And consistancy when it come to handling, anyone breaking the rules the judge should DQ them straight away and not ignore it so as not to cause a scene, its the only way people might finally step up, take note and maybe change for the better.

Dont get me wrong, my gripes with Crufts doesnt lie only in the show dogs. Some of the flyball dogs were running back to their owners so quickly they were slamming into the wall, Crufts should ensure there is enough room to have flyball if they are going to do it. Similarly that carpet for agility is shocking, so slippy and dangerous for large dogs jumping quick tight turns. I cant imagine that in 2015 that havent worked out a way to have a safe ground for the dogs, the commentators went on about how they cant change it because it needs to be carlet for the BiB show dogs walking around, thats grand, the NEC is a big place set up another ring.

Knine

I'm actually a judge. There are lots of things I am looking for when judging depending on the breed. By the time the dog has got to Best in Show or the Group, it has already been decided they are (hopefully) an excellent example of their breed. Before I even go over a dog I can tell a lot by looking at them in outline. The judges doing the groups are at the top of their game and probably judging a long time. You can tell an awful lot about a dog in those quick examinations if you know your breed standard.

A good handler should not be constantly poking or prodding their dog but nerves may play a part at that very high level.

kylith

I did change the channel and it happened to be on the “best in show” where the black Scottie won… im going to have to be honest when I was watching she kept kind of poking to poor dog (he didn’t look happy at all).. she kept trying to get him to stand or move his bum.. just a really swift quick poke.. so quick you can barely see it (look atthe footage again and tell me if im right)… then when she picked him up by his tail… im sorry but she needs slap…

She didn't look happy at all, did she? I occasionally bump into a guy walking a Scottie near my house at it seems a really playful lump, a proper clown. Knopa just looked, well, resigned. I saw no emotion in her at all.

fiounnalbe

Knine wrote: »

I'm actually a judge. There are lots of things I am looking for when judging depending on the breed. By the time the dog has got to Best in Show or the Group, it has already been decided they are (hopefully) an excellent example of their breed. Before I even go over a dog I can tell a lot by looking at them in outline. The judges doing the groups are at the top of their game and probably judging a long time. You can tell an awful lot about a dog in those quick examinations if you know your breed standard.

A good handler should not be constantly poking or prodding their dog but nerves may play a part at that very high level.

Im sure there are some excellent judges yourself included. But I wasnt impressed with the standard of what I saw in the what were being sold as the greatest dog show in the world. The Malinois judge failed to notice how uncomfortable that dog was and kept at him. The BiB judge blantently ignored the terrible handling of the Scottie. It just not good enough at such a big world wide event, where they should be grabbing every opportunity possible to demonstrate good ownership and handling.

And nerves are simply no excuse for poking and prodding your dog. If you cant handle nerves without taking it out on your dog you shouldnt be in the ring.

ABajaninCork

Yes. Coming here was a huge shock to the system!!

Finding dog-friendly places to go is an absolute nightmare as I've said before. If it wasn't for some of the people here on Boards, we'd be seriously struggling. There's whole websites and directories at home in the UK devoted to dog-friendly hotels, restaurants and pubs


The prices for some of the dog food here is horrendous, especially as the E is now so weak against the £. I buy a lot of the doggy stuff online and pay in £. One good thing about here is the fact I can buy the wormers and flea treatments over the counter, rather than waiting for a vet's 'script as we do in the UK.

cocker5

fiounnalbe wrote: »

Im sure there are some excellent judges yourself included. But I wasnt impressed with the standard of what I saw in the what were being sold as the greatest dog show in the world. The Malinois judge failed to notice how uncomfortable that dog was and kept at him. The BiB judge blantently ignored the terrible handling of the Scottie. It just not good enough at such a big world wide event, where they should be grabbing every opportunity possible to demonstrate good ownership and handling.

And nerves are simply no excuse for poking and prodding your dog. If you cant handle nerves without taking it out on your dog you shouldnt be in the ring.

Couldn't agree with you more... nerves are no excuse whatsoever... pity the dog didn't turn around and give her a good bite.. she how she likes it.

cocker5

kylith wrote: »

She didn't look happy at all, did she? I occasionally bump into a guy walking a Scottie near my house at it seems a really playful lump, a proper clown. Knopa just looked, well, resigned. I saw no emotion in her at all.

opps that she was a he!! i just feel sorry for the dog....

Knine

fiounnalbe wrote: »

Im sure there are some excellent judges yourself included. But I wasnt impressed with the standard of what I saw in the what were being sold as the greatest dog show in the world. The Malinois judge failed to notice how uncomfortable that dog was and kept at him. The BiB judge blantently ignored the terrible handling of the Scottie. It just not good enough at such a big world wide event, where they should be grabbing every opportunity possible to demonstrate good ownership and handling.

And nerves are simply no excuse for poking and prodding your dog. If you cant handle nerves without taking it out on your dog you shouldnt be in the ring.

The Best in Show judge is a terrier specialist. There are several terriers designed to be grabbed by the tail in a working situation. The Scotty is one of them. I don't like that style of handling at all & it is acceptable in the US where she is from. It is frowned upon in the UK. She is a professonal handler. I agree especially since she was warned that she should not have done it. I did not see the Mal in the group.

fiounnalbe

Terrier specialist or not it is clearly written in the rules that the handling is not allowed, as a top judge he should be familiar with these rules and enforce them.

Knine

fiounnalbe wrote: »

Terrier specialist or not it is clearly written in the rules that the handling is not allowed, as a top judge he should be familiar with these rules and enforce them.

The problem is that it is not actually a rule at the moment, hence she did not break any rules. You can bet it will be next year though!