Newfoundland Cross - feeding and training advice.

BenEadir

Hi,

I adopted an 8 week old Newfoundland Cross bitch yesterday from an unwanted litter



I already have a 10 year old Labrador/GSD cross bitch who was a farm rescue in 2005. She has been a wonderful family pet, a great guard dog and has a wonderful Labrador temperament but she's beginning to slow down.

It's been such a long time since I had a just weaned pup that I'm looking for a bit of a steer in terms of what to feed her, how often etc and what basic training I should be doing. At them moment I have a cage for her in the main living area near where the other dog has a bed. the pup is happy to go into the cage and I've left a bowl of water and a small plate of Purina Beta Large Breed Puppy Food mixed with warm water in there so it's easy for her to eat.

I've always been a believer in presenting food to a dog and whatever they eat in five minutes is it. I take it back then don't leave bowls of old food lying around the place but I'm guessing with a young hungry pup who will be fast growing she will need to be fed 2-3 times a day. Is this correct? Is Purina Beta Large Breed Puppy Food the right/best food to use? I want to start her off on the right diet as I know food with the wrong mix of protein and nutrients can lead to development problems especially in larger dogs which this one will undoubtedly be.

The cage is open by the way (only closed at night) and she has the run of the main living area which is a combined open plan kitchen/living area with (thankfully) wooden floors as she is certainly well able to pee and poo.

I know I can look up dog training and puppy food etc online and there a lot's of good resources but some of them have commercial agendas and I've always found the advice I get from fellow Boardsies who have real world experience and in some cases qualifications is the best of all.

I'm very grateful for any advice and/or tips on three main things:-

1. Building a good respectful relationship between the established dog and the pup. The established dog is very suspicious and quickly established that it isn't interested in playing etc. It barked and snapped a couple of warning which the pup immediately responded to and stopped what she was doing but she also bared her teeth a few times at the pup but hasn't tried to bite. I don't think she will as she has ever ever behaved like that but as this pup grows and gets bigger than the current dog the dynamic will change and I'd like to avoid any such problems if possible. ATM we ensure the existing dog gets all the attention and lot's of rubs etc before the pup gets any and the kids know the importance of making the existing dog feel secure and loved.

2. What food should the pup be fed and what type of feeding routine should she have?

3. Basic toilet, command and walking on a lead training.

Cheers all.

peasant

A pup will need at least three feeds a day (and go out to toilet immediately afterwards). With a big breed even the adult dog should have its food split into two feeds to minimize the risk of bloat. With that in mind I would feed the two dogs separated from each other to avoid any food aggression before it can start.

A big breed needs special food, as you've already found out. The Purina doesn't seem to be the best choice as its main ingredient is grain ...you'd want something that has meat based protein as its first ingredient.

We had our Lab/St. Bernard mix on Royal Canin giant puppy until his first massive growth was over (ca. 8 months) and he's now on Gain Elite big dog adult and seems to be doing fine (his coat shines like he's been polished)

As for the relationship between the established dog and the pup ...try to treat the old dog as you always did and give it as much attention as the new arrival. There will be incidents of growling and other corrections, only intervene when it gets out of hand. If you have to don't just correct the older dog, but also the pup.
Our pup got bitten once around the muzzle by all the adults (before we could do anything about it ) and it hasn't done him any harm. He still respects all the older dogs (he's now 1 year old) and unquestioningly gives them the right of way even though by now he's towering over all of them.

karenalot

Did you adopt from a rescue? The puppy is too young to have had both sets of vaccinations yet. No decent rescue would have let the a puppy go at such a young age before getting them done.

Edit: have just seen they were advertised as free puppies on Adverts.

borderlinemeath

OP, I know you asked for lots of advice on the other thread, but you missed or ignored a vital piece of information that DBB gave you.

One thing I will strongly advise if you decide to go ahead (I think you've already made up your mind though!).. Do not get a female pup. The chances of running into trouble with two females when the younger one reaches sexual maturity, spayed or not, is significantly higher than when you introduce a dog of the opposite sex.
For what it's worth, this advice is from one of those qualified behaviourists

Your dog by your own admission isn't great with new dogs, you've just made it a lot more difficult for your dog to grow old with this new dog. I hate to say it but could you return her and get a male if at all possible?

ShaShaBear

BenEadir wrote: »

1. Building a good respectful relationship between the established dog and the pup. The established dog is very suspicious and quickly established that it isn't interested in playing etc. It barked and snapped a couple of warning which the pup immediately responded to and stopped what she was doing but she also bared her teeth a few times at the pup but hasn't tried to bite. I don't think she will as she has ever ever behaved like that but as this pup grows and gets bigger than the current dog the dynamic will change and I'd like to avoid any such problems if possible. ATM we ensure the existing dog gets all the attention and lot's of rubs etc before the pup gets any and the kids know the importance of making the existing dog feel secure and loved.

No offense, and I might get grilled for this, but the best advice we could give you to prevent this happening is the advice we DID give you to prevent this happening - BEFORE it happened. You were told not to get a female, you were told to try fostering to ensure your dog would not be too upset without making a commitment, and you were warned that there was a strong possibility that your dog, as you well knew, might never accept the pup and that it could potentially be dangerous.

So, what advice are you willing to listen to?

BenEadir

peasant wrote: »

A pup will need at least three feeds a day (and go out to toilet immediately afterwards). With a big breed even the adult dog should have its food split into two feeds to minimize the risk of bloat. With that in mind I would feed the two dogs separated from each other to avoid any food aggression before it can start.

A big breed needs special food, as you've already found out. The Purina doesn't seem to be the best choice as its main ingredient is grain ...you'd want something that has meat based protein as its first ingredient.

We had our Lab/St. Bernard mix on Royal Canin giant puppy until his first massive growth was over (ca. 8 months) and he's now on Gain Elite big dog adult and seems to be doing fine (his coat shines like he's been polished)

As for the relationship between the established dog and the pup ...try to treat the old dog as you always did and give it as much attention as the new arrival. There will be incidents of growling and other corrections, only intervene when it gets out of hand. If you have to don't just correct the older dog, but also the pup.
Our pup got bitten once around the muzzle by all the adults (before we could do anything about it ) and it hasn't done him any harm. He still respects all the older dogs (he's now 1 year old) and unquestioningly gives them the right of way even though by now he's towering over all of them.

Thanks Peasant, I'll invest in the Royal Canin you suggested and the advice ref allowing them to develop their relationship with mutual respect to both is exactly what I'm going to do. 24 hours in and they are content to be lazing near each other. The pup is beginning to realise the older dog isn't interested in playing puppy and the older dog is beginning to accept the pup providing it plays be the rules i.e. "don't annoy me too much". It's early days but things are heading in the right direction. They've spent a few hours together without direct adult supervision (we were in another room using a baby monitor to listen in to the room the two dogs were in) and there was the odd bark from the older dog but it wasn't aggressive, it was a short sharp "stop" and when we looked we could see the pup stretched fully out a few feet away lying down getting ready for a little doze. It'll be interesting to see how the relationship dynamic changes as the pup out grows the mature dog. It's already clear the pup is a going to be a big chillaxed giant. It'll sleep anywhere at any angle!!

BenEadir

karenalot wrote: »

Did you adopt from a rescue? The puppy is too young to have had both sets of vaccinations yet. No decent rescue would have let the a puppy go at such a young age before getting them done.

Edit: have just seen they were advertised as free puppies on Adverts.

No, my preference was to get a pup from a rescue but this pup became available and it ticked a lot of the criteria I wanted. Not all but most.

I'll bring the pup to the vet tomorrow to organise vaccinations and micro chipping etc and it will be spayed when appropriate which I guess is around the 6 month mark.

peasant

Well, the deed is done, the pup is there ...

Young pups are incredibly mouldable at that age so use that to your advantage. Establish one area of the house where the old dog likes to be as off-limits to the pup.
So when the old dog is in this "retreat" don't let the pup go near it. Call it away (lure it with food/toys) and praise it for coming.
Two birds ..one stone. The pup learns its first commands and the old dog learns that it has a protected area where it can take time out from the annoying bundle of fluff.

Basic training for a puppy that young ...
Is all play, until the pup gets a bit older. You want it to react to its name ..so praise when she does. She will follow you around anyway so start introducing commands like "here" and "come" in a conversational tone as the action happens and she'll learn them all by herself.
The same goes for any other desirable behaviours she might show (sit, down, etc) just name them as they happen and praise ...they'll all slowly sink in and will only need little further training later on.

Toilet training:
Outside immediately after every feed and every drink and whenever she gets restless. Praise for any "deed" done outside ...ignore accidents and clean up without fuss.

Other than that ...take it easy, don't over-do it. At the age the pup will and should be asleep most of the time ...let it.


One final piece of advice ...you're looking at a potentially very large and heavy dog once she's fully grown. Do not allow any behaviour that would be awkward/dangerous/painful when exhibited by a 50 kg/70 cm lump of pure muscle ...no matter how sweet or cute it might be right now.

Here's a good calculator that (over time) will give you some idea how heavy the finished article will become;

http://www.enpevet.de/CalculateWeight.aspx

BenEadir

borderlinemeath wrote: »

OP, I know you asked for lots of advice on the other thread, but you missed or ignored a vital piece of information that DBB gave you.



Your dog by your own admission isn't great with new dogs, you've just made it a lot more difficult for your dog to grow old with this new dog. I hate to say it but could you return her and get a male if at all possible?

The males were gone. This is the only criteria I was concerned with. I'd have preferred a male for the reason DBB outlined and I respect the advice. If a male had been available I'd have taken it.

Stheno

BenEadir wrote: »

No, my preference was to get a pup from a rescue but this pup became available and it ticked a lot of the criteria I wanted. Not all but most.

I'll bring the pup to the vet tomorrow to organise vaccinations and micro chipping etc and it will be spayed when appropriate which I guess is around the 6 month mark.

Someone will surely correct me if I am wrong but I believe that for large breed pups it is better to delay spaying to allow them develop.

As regarsds having two female dogs, you Mau live to regret it I got a female pup years ago with an older female dog and once the pup grew up she was so nasty to the older dog that they ended up having to be separated at all times the pup was fine with the male dogs in the house but would attack the older female dog on sight

BenEadir

ShaShaBear wrote: »

So, what advice are you willing to listen to?

I listen to and appreciate all advice ShaShaBear. Advise is different to instruction. I believe the advice I received was very good and if a male had been available I'd have taken it.

Stheno

BenEadir wrote: »

I listen to and appreciate all advice ShaShaBear. Advise is different to instruction. I believe the advice I received was very good and if a male had been available I'd have taken it.

Do you not think you rushed it a bit? Twas only last week you were looking for advice

BenEadir

Stheno wrote: »

Do you not think you rushed it a bit? Twas only last week you were looking for advice

I was looking for a while before that. I wasn't in a rush at all but when an opportunity that ticks most of the boxes came along I took it. It certainly wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was a 550km round trip, I don't do 6 hours of driving on a whim!!

ShaShaBear

Stheno wrote: »

Do you not think you rushed it a bit? Twas only last week you were looking for advice

Way too rushed. So many other puppies looking for homes that would at least have their vaccinations and a check-up at the vet first, and he gets a female that will be twice the size and weight of his current dog, after we warned him of the likelihood of fighting. Surely to Jaysus in taking all advice on board, one would start with the one most likely to prevent injury to either dog?

What's worse is the OP is stuck with the pup now. Hopefully she doesn't get seriously hurt, or end up developing fear-based dog aggression in order to protect herself. And hopefully a resolution is found before she is big enough to fight back and seriously injure the other dog

borderlinemeath

BenEadir wrote: »

The males were gone. This is the only criteria I was concerned with. I'd have preferred a male for the reason DBB outlined and I respect the advice. If a male had been available I'd have taken it.

A person who had heeded the good advice wouldn't have taken the female pup. What was the rush? Why was this litter that was at the other end of the country so special? There's lab cross pups in Offaly pound, collie cross pups in a Louth rescue, pups in a Kildare rescue.....the list goes on.

I know of a 4 dog household where 2 of the females want to kill each other, they can't have toys as it starts holy war and they have to be walked separately. I know another household where they had 2 JRTs that mated and they kept a female pup, the mother has to sleep in a crate separate to the father and pup as there's serious scraps if they're left together. It makes life really difficult for the owners and hell for the dogs in the situations, their home life is constantly on edge. While a pup is "mouldable" as Peasant says, this isn't a training issue, it's hormonal and instinctive. As soon as your pup matures and she becomes a dog, things will change and they could change for the worse.

Stheno

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As soon as your pup matures and she becomes a dog, things will change and they could change for the worse.

The awful thing if that happens imo is the effect on the older dog, mine became very timid and always on the lookout for the other dog

Two female dogs is the worst combination to me

peasant

ShaShaBear wrote: »

What's worse is the OP is stuck with the pup now. Hopefully she doesn't get seriously hurt, or end up developing fear-based dog aggression in order to protect herself. And hopefully a resolution is found before she is big enough to fight back and seriously injure the other dog

Now,now....
Dialing up the fear factor isn't very helpful either.

I'm a great believer in the theory that dog behaviour is decided to a big degree by the "athmosphere" around the house. Treat your dogs with respect, routine and in a calm manner and they will behave that way (most of the time anyway )

Dial up the fear, stress and hectic ...and that's just what you will get.

Don't turn this situation into a self-fulfilling prophecy by anticipating the worst case scenario right from the start.

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I know of a 4 dog household where 2 of the females want to kill each other, they can't have toys as it starts holy war and they have to be walked separately. I know another household where they had 2 JRTs that mated and they kept a female pup, the mother has to sleep in a crate separate to the father and pup as there's serious scraps if they're left together.

Well ...I know of one household (ours ) where two intact bitches have lived together without issues (apart from some isolated incidents) for 11 years now ...so it's not all doom and gloom

borderlinemeath

peasant wrote: »

Now,now....
Dialing up the fear factor isn't very helpful either.

I'm a great believer in the theory that dog behaviour is decided to a big degree by the "athmosphere" around the house. Treat your dogs with respect, routine and in a calm manner and they will behave that way (most of the time anyway )

Dial up the fear, stress and hectic ...and that's just what you will get.

Don't turn this situation into a self-fulfilling prophecy by anticipating the worst case scenario right from the start.




Well ...I know of one household (ours ) where two intact bitches have lived together without issues (apart from some isolated incidents) for 11 years now ...so it's not all doom and gloom

And there's always anecdotal evidence that will contradict the scientific proof. I'd still rather err on the side of caution than just take the advice of one internet post. It's great that all has gone well for you but bear in mind that the OP has a dog that has been the only dog in her household all her life, bar occasional visits, her body language and manner isn't necessarily going to welcome an interloper with open paws so comparing your multi dog household situation to theirs isn't the same thing.

Off topic but curious to know, why haven't you spayed your females? I presume your males are neutered?

ShaShaBear

peasant wrote: »

Now,now....
Dialing up the fear factor isn't very helpful either.

I'm a great believer in the theory that dog behaviour is decided to a big degree by the "athmosphere" around the house. Treat your dogs with respect, routine and in a calm manner and they will behave that way (most of the time anyway )

Dial up the fear, stress and hectic ...and that's just what you will get.

I wrestled with the difficulty of a dog with severe dog aggression for almost 11 years due to a conflict of same-sex couplings.
When his older dog has already reacted aggressively to the pup, and it is likely that the pup will learn to respond in kind, it is certainly not instilling unwarranted fear in once again noting the dangers associated with the decision the OP made. Large breed or not, an 8 week old is tiny and could be very seriously injured if the older dog decides she has had enough.

peasant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

And there's always anecdotal evidence that will contradict the scientific proof. I'd still rather err on the side of caution than just take the advice of one internet post. It's great that all has gone well for you but bear in mind that the OP has a dog that has been the only dog in her household all her life, bar occasional visits, her body language and manner isn't necessarily going to welcome an interloper with open paws so comparing your multi dog household situation to theirs isn't the same thing.

Off topic but curious to know, why haven't you spayed your females? I presume your males are neutered?

The words "bitch" and "bitchy" have made it into common usage for a reason ...I guess we're all aware of that
But still, unless two bitches are totally incompatible in their personalities, I think it is possible to create an athmosphere of at least tolerance between two bitches.
It is largely don to the owner to allow the bitches to be "moody" (for the want of a better word) from time to time, create separate space and zones and times of separation ...but not to give in to all their demands and enforce a truce; firmly, but calmly.

Our bitches weren't spayed because the male was a rescue and already neutered ...they live in a securely fenced in area so there was no need really.

One bitch has been spayed recently (because she had to be treated for mammary cancer so it was all done together) and if anything she's even bitchier now than she ever was before.

borderlinemeath

peasant wrote: »

The words "bitch" and "bitchy" have made it into common usage for a reason ...I guess we're all aware of that
But still, unless two bitches are totally incompatible in their personalities, I think it is possible to create an athmosphere of at least tolerance between two bitches.
It is largely don to the owner to allow the bitches to be "moody" (for the want of a better word) from time to time, create separate space and zones and times of separation ...but not to give in to all their demands and enforce a truce; firmly, but calmly.

Our bitches weren't spayed because the male was a rescue and already neutered ...they live in a securely fenced in area so there was no need really.

One bitch has been spayed recently (because she had to be treated for mammary cancer so it was all done together) and if anything she's even bitchier now than she ever was before.

I was going to say that the likelyhood of illness such as pyo or cancer is higher in intact females but it seems you have learned that the hard way:(. It's always preferable if you have a multi dog household to spay females as the incidences of cancers and illness in intact males seems to be less than intact females. The fact that females go into heat regularly and the hormonal changes associated with it just increase the risk that something will happen, whereas dogs don't have that risk. And also when females are in heat it does arouse and distress the males even if their neutered, they could still tie, just not procreate and there's dangers associated with that too.

Again, it's great that you have been able to manage 2 females but the evidence is there. And in PARTICULAR the fact that the existing female is not used to dogs in her home on a full time basis her body language and manner is going to be on edge anyway. I just feel so sorry for the poor older dog as she will be the worse off if things go pear shaped.

peasant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I was going to say that the likelyhood of illness such as pyo or cancer is higher in intact females but it seems you have learned that the hard way:(

Well ..thank you for your sensitivity on that issue ...rubbing it in feels great, doesn't it?

But actually, the last word on the pro's and cons of castration in both dogs and bitches isn't quite spoken yet ...it is quite possible that we have done our bitches a favour by not having them spayed initially.

Have a read of this:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/06/13/neutering-spaying-cancer-risk.aspx

But this a whole topic for another day ....

DBB

I don't know what's in the air around here this weekend, but there's a lot of snidey, passive aggression going on across the forum.
Give it a rest folks. I am fast becoming jaded with it all.
Thanks,
DBB

BenEadir

Cool your jets there ShaShaBear, I've given a loving home to an unwanted puppy. If you think that's a bad thing all I can do is refer you to the following

ShaShaBear wrote: »

So many other puppies looking for homes that would at least have their vaccinations and a check-up at the vet first

I'll take care of the expense of vaccinations, microchipping etc so a rescue centre doesn't have to.

ShaShaBear wrote: »

he gets a female that will be twice the size and weight of his current dog, after we warned him of the likelihood of fighting. Surely to Jaysus in taking all advice on board, one would start with the one most likely to prevent injury to either dog?

I'm right here ShaShaBear, you don't have to refer to me as "he". Why don't you address your concerns directly to me rather than grandstand to the audience?

I agree that a male would likely be preferable but it's not oil and water is it? There are plenty of examples of male and female dogs and pups not getting on and plenty of examples of same sex dogs and pups getting on. I made a decision that the likely temperament and age of the pup outweighed any potential size or same sex issues. Maybe I'll be proven right, maybe wrong but if I adopted a male (like the hyper 4 month old Sprollie one rescue centre suggested) there would also be a chance of incompatibility. That's life. I'm going to do everything I can to create an environment where they can co-exist with mutual respect. It's early days but as of now the older dog is becoming more accepting and the pup is increasingly accepting of the older dogs boundaries.

ShaShaBear wrote: »

What's worse is the OP is stuck with the pup now.(

Seriously? Stuck? How can I be stuck with the pup? I want the pup, it's fitting in well as far as I can assess. It's intelligent and is already pawing at the door to be let out to go to the toilet. It responds to being called and is very engaging. It is content and happy to sleep in the crate/cage. If that's "Stuck" I'll settle for that no problem. I wish I was stuck with more problems like this

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Hopefully she doesn't get seriously hurt, or end up developing fear-based dog aggression in order to protect herself. And hopefully a resolution is found before she is big enough to fight back and seriously injure the other dog

I guess your crystal ball is better then mine but focuses on the negative. I focus on the positives and thankfully there are many.

borderlinemeath

peasant wrote: »

Well ..thank you for your sensitivity on that issue ...rubbing it in feels great, doesn't it?

But actually, the last word on the pro's and cons of castration in both dogs and bitches isn't quite spoken yet ...it is quite possible that we have done our bitches a favour by not having them spayed initially.

Have a read of this:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/06/13/neutering-spaying-cancer-risk.aspx

But this a whole topic for another day ....

I actually thought my "sad face" emoticon implied my sympathy, rather than an "I told you so". It wasn't intended to be insensitive.

Nonetheless in a multi dog household I firmly believe that the females (if not showing or for breeding) should at least be spayed, to save distress for the males, the bi annual drama of heat, the chances of phantom pregnancies and the distress that it causes the female.
Not to mention that if an intact male locally senses the female in heat it will do all in it's power to find it, and if that is in a rural location then the risk of encountering sheep is high.

When my female was in heat a retriever from a half a mile down the road repeatedly broke out and left scratch marks embedded in our gate. She was spayed soon after but the risk to both was high, there's a farm directly across the road and the road can be busy with cars. It's not just your own dog you have to worry about.

Tranceypoo

Just on a slightly different and slightly pedantic point - OP if you got your pup from someone advertising online/free ads papers (which I won't name) then that's not a 'rescue' pup, that's a pup from either a byb or a some irresponsible person who didn't spay their dog, did you pay for the puppy? Did you ask the person you got/bought the puppy from if the bitch was going to be spayed now? I just don't get why you felt you had to do a 550km round trip to get a puppy when, sadly, puppies are a dime a dozen in rescues all around the country, just please do me a favour and don't call it a 'rescue'/.

peasant

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Not to mention that if an intact male locally senses the female in heat it will do all in it's power to find it, and if that is in a rural location then the risk of encountering sheep is high.

That's an honourable thought, but I'm not going to subject my dogs to a severe operation that is at least controversial just so that my lazy neighbour doesn't have to worry about securing his dog properly

There are plenty of other reasons why I might have my bitches spayed, but that isn't one of them.

But as I said above ..that's a whole different topic for another day.

@BenEadir
Happy to see that the first indications are positive

karenalot

BenEadir wrote: »

It was a 550km round trip, I don't do 6 hours of driving on a whim!!

Im taking it the owner didnt do a 550km round trip for a home check then?

Agreed with above. Please don't use the word adopted. You have essentially lightened the load for someone who was careless in letting their dog get pregnant and gave the pups away free online without any vaccinations or thought or care to where they would be going to. They will probably let their dog get pregnant again. Next time they might not be so lucky in rehoming the pups and guess where they will end up.

BenEadir

Tranceypoo wrote: »

Just on a slightly different and slightly pedantic point - OP if you got your pup from someone advertising online/free ads papers (which I won't name) then that's not a 'rescue' pup, that's a pup from either a byb or a some irresponsible person who didn't spay their dog, did you pay for the puppy? Did you ask the person you got/bought the puppy from if the bitch was going to be spayed now? I just don't get why you felt you had to do a 550km round trip to get a puppy when, sadly, puppies are a dime a dozen in rescues all around the country, just please do me a favour and don't call it a 'rescue'/.

I don't think I called it a "rescue" and I certainly didn't pay anything for it, I have never paid for a dog and never will, there are too many unwanted dogs to justify ever paying for a dog and encouraging the production of even more unwanted dogs. I adopted the pup from an unwanted litter. Is that description ok? I don't know what a BYB is and I'm not qualified to determine whether the owner of the mother is responsible or irresponsible by allowing her dog to become pregnant. I asked to see the mother and it looked healthy and behaved well. I drove 550km to adopt the pup because it needed a home and I felt the temperament and age of the pup would have a good chance of being compatible with my existing dog and situation. I would have preferred if the pup was male but I didn't see that as an absolute red line. Maybe I should have but I didn't. Time will tell if the doom mongers are correct. I hope not.

I also didn't ask the owner if she is going to spay the mother now. It's none of my business. She was kind enough to try and find homes for the pups. Many unwanted pups end up in a fertiliser bag filled with rocks at the bottom of a lake. I was not going to pry into the owners personal business.

DBB

peasant wrote: »

That's an honourable thought, but I'm not going to subject my dogs to a severe operation that is at least controversial just so that my lazy neighbour doesn't have to worry about securing his dog properly

Peasant,
I have asked that you quit the off-topic "discussion", and whilst Borderlinemeath has PM'd me to apologise for not having seen my warning prior to posting, you don't have that excuse.
As you have now correctly pointed out twice, this is a whole different topic for another day.
Will you just leave it now, please.
Thanks,
DBB

BenEadir

karenalot wrote: »

Im taking it the owner didnt do a 550km round trip for a home check then?

Your powers of deduction are up there with Ms Marple The owner was a private citizen not a charity rescue centre. Ideally home checks should be done and I'd be more than happy to facilitate an inspection but how exactly would a private citizen know what to even look for in a home check? I'm guessing the people who undertake home checks for the rescue centres receive some training and written guidance? If home checks need some degree of training why do you think a private citizen would be qualified to conduct a meaningful home check?

karenalot wrote: »

Agreed with above. Please don't use the word adopted.

I sure hope you don't do any home checks given your attention to detail. The "above" post you refer to didn't mention adoption it requested that I not use the term "rescue" which BTW I didn't and have no intention of using.

Also, you don't get to redefine established English to suit your prejudices. Taking a pup FOC from an unwanted litter to a new home is, whether you like it or not, adopting the pup.

karenalot wrote: »

You have essentially lightened the load for someone who was careless in letting their dog get pregnant and gave the pups away free online without any vaccinations or thought or care to where they would be going to.

Would you prefer if no one ADOPTED the unwanted pups? What do you think would happen to them then? Would you prefer if they became feral or were drowned? Please think your arguments through before spewing them at me.