Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

LXFlyer

thomasj wrote: »

Any surprises?

I'd hope you'll see journey times improve on the Heuston side (reflecting the improved line speeds), and an expansion of off peak services on the Connolly side on Maynooth and the Northern lines, which I would fervently hope will address the Sunday service issues on both lines.

thomasj

LXFlyer wrote:

I'd hope you'll see journey times improve on the Heuston side (reflecting the improved line speeds), and an expansion of off peak services on the Connolly side on Maynooth and the Northern lines, which I would fervently hope will address the Sunday service issues on both lines.

Have my fingers crossed on this? And just in time too leading up to the open of LCC

patrickbrophy18

GM228 wrote: »

Next timetable is due to commence December 10th (public consultation soon) and there are no major changes or additionals to the GCD services.

Just as a matter of interest, where did you get this information?

I see no mention of it on either the NTA nor Irish Rail websites.

thomasj

patrickbrophy18 wrote:

I see no mention of it on either the NTA nor Irish Rail websites.

Funny enough the current online timetable only goes as far as 9th December.

Jamie2k9

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, where did you get this information?

I see no mention of it on either the NTA nor Irish Rail websites.

You will when IE tell the public.

December change was an annual event until December 2011. They pushed the Heuston December 2012 change out to January 2013 and that timetable has largely remained in tact ever since with some major Galway/Westport adjustments (lets hope they don't make the same mistake) while minor Cork/Waterford adjustments with an additional service or two added.

thomasj

Irish rail saying on twitter the December changes won't go to public consultation as they are only minor.

IrishZeus

thomasj wrote: »

Irish rail saying on twitter the December changes won't go to public consultation as they are only minor.

Any mention of when they will be publicised?

thomasj

IrishZeus wrote:

Any mention of when they will be publicised?

Presuming will be December

Hilly Bill

thomasj wrote: »

Funny enough the current online timetable only goes as far as 9th December.

Changes start on the 10th.

marno21

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:

- Completion of the city centre re-signalling project, which allows more train movements across critical parts of the rail network and thereby allows for more and quicker services;

- From September 2018, the recently opened Kildare route Phoenix Park tunnel services to Docklands will be extended to off-peak periods, as well as peak periods;

- Currently a contract is underway to introduce 28 carriages to re-enter service in 2019;

- Later this year, an all-day 10 minute DART service will be introduced across all lines;

Is this an error by him?

cython

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:



Is this an error by him?

Well given that there are no such services from the Kildare line to Docklands (barring a potential recent and bizarre rechristening of the Navan branch :pac:) it must be an error on some level!

L1011

Grand Canal Dock / Docklands confusion. Easy enough mistake.

PPT to Docklands is currently not possible without reversing

IE 222

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:



Is this an error by him?

Where is the 28 carriages coming from. I thought 10 2700 sets were coming back. Have they decided to bring back the 8200s as well or is there damaged ICR waiting repairs for a return to service.

His 10 min Darts across all lines comment could be misleading to some as well.

end of the road

IE 222 wrote: »

Where is the 28 carriages coming from. I thought 10 2700 sets were coming back. Have they decided to bring back the 8200s as well or is there damaged ICR waiting repairs for a return to service.

His 10 min Darts across all lines comment could be misleading to some as well.

i think the plan is now to bring back all 2700s+ the 2750s + the hybrid. i think that would be the 28 carriges if it's correct.

GM228

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:



Is this an error by him?

Where is it quoted from? I have seen him mention things like "Phoenix Park tunnel services will increase" etc, but nothing where he mentions Docklands (or even GCD).

GM228

IE 222 wrote: »

Where is the 28 carriages coming from. I thought 10 2700 sets were coming back. Have they decided to bring back the 8200s as well or is there damaged ICR waiting repairs for a return to service.

His 10 min Darts across all lines comment could be misleading to some as well.

All of the 2700s (including the hybrid) are to return. After months of delays work will begin on the first set in October.

Most likely 2715/2724 will be the first set as it was used for the tender scoping exercise last year.

GerardKeating

IE 222 wrote: »

His 10 min Darts across all lines comment could be misleading to some as well.

they could mean the Howth and Malihide branchs having a 10 minute frequency, which would require five minutes of the Connolly-Howth Junction section, or make Howth a shuttle service.

And they would hardly do a 10 minute service on Bray to Greystones.

GM228

GerardKeating wrote: »

they could mean the Howth and Malihide branchs having a 10 minute frequency, which would require five minutes of the Connolly-Howth Junction section, or make Howth a shuttle service.

And they would hardly do a 10 minute service on Bray to Greystones.

10 minute DART services = 20 minute Greystones-Malahide service and a 20 minute Bray-Howth service.

Between Bray-Howth Junction is a true 10 minute service, but between Howth Junction-Malahide/Howth and Greystones-Bray will be a 20 minute service.

There was talk of a 10 minute Bray/Greystones (every second train to/from Greystones) to Malahide service with a Howth Junction-Howth shuttle service, but I believe this was dropped, Howth Junction was actually signalled to allow for such a shuttle service during phase 1 of the CCRP.

marno21

GerardKeating wrote: »

they could mean the Howth and Malihide branchs having a 10 minute frequency, which would require five minutes of the Connolly-Howth Junction section, or make Howth a shuttle service.

And they would hardly do a 10 minute service on Bray to Greystones.

10 minute Bray-Greystones is not feasible due to the single track between Bray and Greystones around Bray Head.

loyatemu

GM228 wrote: »

10 minute DART services = 20 minute Greystones-Malahide service and a 20 minute Bray-Howth service.

Between Bray-Howth Junction is a true 10 minute service, but between Howth Junction-Malahide/Howth and Greystones-Bray will be a 20 minute service.

There was talk of a 10 minute Bray/Greystones (every second train to/from Greystones) to Malahide service with a Howth Junction-Howth shuttle service, but I believe this was dropped, Howth Junction was actually signalled to allow for such a shuttle service during phase 1 of the CCRP.

there will be no increase in frequency between Bray and Greystones, it'll stay at 30 minutes i.e. every 3rd Dart will go to Greystones (currently every 2nd Dart).

Also (if the previous proposed timetable is the one they go back to) there'll be no improvement in weekend frequencies which will stay at one Dart an hour to Greystones

goingnowhere

The proposal was always for 10 minute interval between Bray and Howth Junction. Greystones will be 30 minutes at best.

Every 20 minutes on the Howth branch will be a significant improvement at off peak

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:



Is this an error by him?

Shane Ross reply today saying off peak service enhancements to start on Kildare/PPT & Maynooth lines in December. Not sure if it's a delay or a case of the right hand not talking to the left hand

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2018-06-28a.707

XPS_Zero

marno21 wrote: »

Shane Ross written reply regarding rail services:



Is this an error by him?

By the civil servant who actually wrote that answer OR he just glazed over it and misspoke in the chamber having probably not bothered to read the answer before he entered the Dail.


Shane Ross does not care about transport in any way, or national issues IN ANY WAY. When he was a Senator he made like he was all about national issues but as soon as he went to the Dail he revealed himself to be one of the usual tired predictable parish pump types he used to complain about.


He cares what affects his patch nothing more which is why nothings getting done on transport that the NTA does not do itself - he's just a Dublin version of Micheal Healey-Rae

Infini

GM228 wrote: »

There was talk of a 10 minute Bray/Greystones (every second train to/from Greystones) to Malahide service with a Howth Junction-Howth shuttle service, but I believe this was dropped, Howth Junction was actually signalled to allow for such a shuttle service during phase 1 of the CCRP.

Might be mistaken but I thought that plan was dropped partly due to driver opposition as well due to the nature of the junction itself. Also considering the trouble thats happened recently at least if something happens out past the Junction that not every service is affected outright either.

Decuc500

goingnowhere wrote: »

Every 20 minutes on the Howth branch will be a significant improvement at off peak

Off peak is one thing but IR should be concentrating on rush hour. The '10 minute' timetable might look nice and neat on paper and is a good soundbite for politicians and management but there really should be more than a Dart every 20 minutes from Malahide and Howth in rush hour. They'll be jammed by the time they reach Howth Junction!

The new timetable had the same number of trains running between 8am to 9am as between 2pm to 3pm. Bizarre.

Actually if I recall there might have been an extra train from Howth squeezed into the morning timetable somewhere but evening rush hour has one less Dart travelling north through Pearse between 5pm and 6pm. Yeah, some improvement.

Ireland trains

Decuc500 wrote: »

goingnowhere wrote: »

Every 20 minutes on the Howth branch will be a significant improvement at off peak

Off peak is one thing but IR should be concentrating on rush hour. The '10 minute' timetable might look nice and neat on paper and is a good soundbite for politicians and management but there really should be more than a Dart every 20 minutes from Malahide and Howth in rush hour. They'll be jammed by the time they reach Howth Junction!

The new timetable had the same number of trains running between 8am to 9am as between 2pm to 3pm. Bizarre.

Actually if I recall there might have been an extra train from Howth squeezed into the morning timetable somewhere but evening rush hour has one less Dart travelling north through Pearse between 5pm and 6pm. Yeah, some improvement.

Where is the new timetable

Decuc500

Ireland trains wrote: »

Where is the new timetable

I'm not sure if it's available to see anymore. The proposed timetable was available to see when the plans to bring in the 10 minute frequency were announced a couple of years ago maybe.

goingnowhere

The proposed timetable did include a number of extra peak hour services to provide a higher frequency on the Howth branch, these terminated at Dun Laoghaire

Bear in mind the proposed timetable while more trains than today and peak its still less than what we had in 1999 with only 80 coaches...

Sam Russell

goingnowhere wrote: »

The proposed timetable did include a number of extra peak hour services to provide a higher frequency on the Howth branch, these terminated at Dun Laoghaire

Bear in mind the proposed timetable while more trains than today and peak its still less than what we had in 1999 with only 80 coaches...

... but 40 trains.

Jamie2k9

goingnowhere wrote: »

The proposed timetable did include a number of extra peak hour services to provide a higher frequency on the Howth branch, these terminated at Dun Laoghaire

Bear in mind the proposed timetable while more trains than today and peak its still less than what we had in 1999 with only 80 coaches...

Did it, had a scan through the copy I had and only shows 20 minute frequency all day including peak hours.

Jamie2k9

Infini wrote: »

Might be mistaken but I thought that plan was dropped partly due to driver opposition as well due to the nature of the junction itself. Also considering the trouble thats happened recently at least if something happens out past the Junction that not every service is affected outright either.

Of course it was, drivers are not keen on change!

Infini

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Of course it was, drivers are not keen on change!

Can you blame em on this? Junkie Junction isnt exactly thr place anyone want's to be stuck at for an extended period considering the certain individuals that hang around wrecking the place.

XPS_Zero

Infini wrote: »

Can you blame em on this? Junkie Junction isnt exactly thr place anyone want's to be stuck at for an extended period considering the certain individuals that hang around wrecking the place.

It's not their fault - they're disadvantaged , you see....


As someone who grew up in a council estate I will tell you first hand, that knowing that there is a piece of paper somewhere that says your house is owned by the state instead of your parents/the bank, and having less money, gives one no choice but to murder, assault, rob and destroy. How could we possibly have any other choice?

Jamie2k9

Infini wrote: »

Can you blame em on this? Junkie Junction isnt exactly thr place anyone want's to be stuck at for an extended period considering the certain individuals that hang around wrecking the place.

If they had security there 24/7 I suspect there would be a few who will still find something else to disrupt any changes and in most cases will get away with it.

GerardKeating

Infini wrote: »

Can you blame em on this? Junkie Junction isnt exactly thr place anyone want's to be stuck at for an extended period considering the certain individuals that hang around wrecking the place.

No need to Wait at the junction, table all the waits for Howth.

Sam Russell

GerardKeating wrote: »

No need to Wait at the junction, table all the waits for Howth.

It takes 9 mins to get from Howth to Howth Junction, and if the Darts are 10 mins apart, it makes sense for a shuttle service - and that service could be driverless, at least off peak. Two 4 coach trains going back and forth all day, with a conductor checking tickets, keeping order, and closing the doors.

This would allow Malahide to get 10 min service as well - passing loop at Clongriffin, and possibly at Clontarf.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

It takes 9 mins to get from Howth to Howth Junction, and if the Darts are 10 mins apart, it makes sense for a shuttle service - and that service could be driverless, at least off peak. Two 4 coach trains going back and forth all day, with a conductor checking tickets, keeping order, and closing the doors.

This would allow Malahide to get 10 min service as well - passing loop at Clongriffin, and possibly at Clontarf.

I think driverless trains on the IE network is pushing it to be honest, I can't see it happening any time soon. There are still level crossings on that route which would be another hurdle to overcome

end of the road

Sam Russell wrote: »

It takes 9 mins to get from Howth to Howth Junction, and if the Darts are 10 mins apart, it makes sense for a shuttle service - and that service could be driverless, at least off peak. Two 4 coach trains going back and forth all day, with a conductor checking tickets, keeping order, and closing the doors.

This would allow Malahide to get 10 min service as well - passing loop at Clongriffin, and possibly at Clontarf.

whatever about the possible expence of upgrading that branch for driverless operation in the short to medium term (which i'd be surprised if funding was to be given for it) why would you have it driverless off peak but not at peak?

Sam Russell

end of the road wrote: »

whatever about the possible expence of upgrading that branch for driverless operation in the short to medium term (which i'd be surprised if funding was to be given for it) why would you have it driverless off peak but not at peak?

Well, I think it would be full time. I was thinking that some direct services might be added or substituted during peak times - like direct to Bray for two or three departures in AM and Bray to Howth in PM.

Probably not feasible.

goingnowhere

There is no reference to a Howth - Howth Jnc shuttle in the draft timetable.

end of the road

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, I think it would be full time. I was thinking that some direct services might be added or substituted during peak times - like direct to Bray for two or three departures in AM and Bray to Howth in PM.

Probably not feasible.

fair enough.

patrickbrophy18

goingnowhere wrote: »

There is no reference to a Howth - Howth Jnc shuttle in the draft timetable.

What draft timetable and where can I see it?

thomasj

patrickbrophy18 wrote:

What draft timetable and where can I see it?

I'd say it's fairly obsolete now, given the timetable didn't include the plans for Maynooth and PPT services

marno21

OPW seem to be proposing an underground station near Dublin Zoo

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/funicular-and-driverless-shuttle-in-proposed-phoenix-park-revamp-1.3869557

XPS_Zero

If it goes like the other plans heres what will happen:


1. Announced, lots of glossy pics and leaflets
2. Objections for 15 years
3. Canceled

4. Redesigned
5. Announced, lots of glossy pics like it's the first time, lots of artists sketches like it's the first time
6. Objections for 5 more years
7. cANCELED
8. Redes.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Lord Glentoran

XPS_Zero wrote: »

If it goes like the other plans heres what will happen:


1. Announced, lots of glossy pics and leaflets
2. Objections for 15 years
3. Canceled

4. Redesigned
5. Announced, lots of glossy pics like it's the first time, lots of artists sketches like it's the first time
6. Objections for 5 more years
7. cANCELED
8. Redes.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

“Won’t someone think of the poor penguins”

Markcheese

You'd hope, since its a single station, on public land that it shouldn't get stalled to badly..
There will be objections though...

Lord Glentoran

Markcheese wrote: »

You'd hope, since its a single station, on public land that it shouldn't get stalled to badly..
There will be objections though...

There will be a complete redesign proposed of the Phoenix Park Tunnel, and a claim that this will be cheaper and quicker than the detailed costed and designed version ready to go.

Then someone will say “Won’t you think of the penguins”. Again.

Guaranteed.

:rolleyes:

Markcheese

If you were ball parking, how much should a single station cost (assuming they go for basic, not an architectural statement,)

cgcsb

A station just east of the park would be brill for me, about half way between the proposed Heuston West and Cabra DART stations. Much better access to the Northern Suburbs and the airport.