Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

Grandeeod

alias no.9 wrote: »

Bray Head tunnel is cut through a substantial body of rock, PPT is a brick built structure not far below the surface

Apologies, but I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. There are a number of tunnels built around Bray head and nearly all of them were built before the PPT. Number 4 tunnel was built in 1917. You are talking about arches and brick built like you are trying to prove a point. Bottom line, I really don't think electrifying the PPT would be a feat of engineering excellence and I have never heard anything to the contrary.

tabbey

Apart from No 4 tunnel, the original tunnels on Bray Head were built for double track, Therefore by moving the single track to the centre of the tunnel, the apex of the arch was high enough for the overhead wire.

On another matter, when were Mr Giblin's photos taken? the brickwork under the Phoenix Park, looks quite poor, this may be one of the jobs being done at present, to rehabilitate the tunnel for regular passenger traffic

ClovenHoof

tabbey wrote: »

Apart from No 4 tunnel, the original tunnels on Bray Head were built for double track, Therefore by moving the single track to the centre of the tunnel, the apex of the arch was high enough for the overhead wire.

You may have have just given CIE managers the idea on how to destroy the potential of the tunnel.

tabbey

ClovenHoof wrote: »

You may have have just given CIE managers the idea on how to destroy the potential of the tunnel.

I don't think PPT electrification is on IR's agenda, now or for many years.

Out of curiosity, what is the scheduled start date of this service?
It must be getting closer..

LXFlyer

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what is the scheduled start date of this service?
It must be getting closer..

Late 2016 - the city centre resignalling has to be completed first.

kc56

lxflyer wrote: »

Late 2016 - the city centre resignalling has to be completed first.

Not to mention freeing up stock to run the service.

GM228

kc56 wrote: »

Not to mention freeing up stock to run the service.

Stock has/will be freed up already for the service.

The extra 22000 and 29000 sets off the CAWS/ATP trials are now back in regular service and the 22000 off the Belfast will be available again soon, an extra MkIV may also be required to displace a 22000, but the stock isn't an issue.

(And there are rumours of some 2700s making a return).

Sam Russell

When will the work at GCD be finished? - it has been going on forever with little or no work being done.

ClovenHoof

Sam Russell wrote: »

When will the work at GCD be finished? - it has been going on forever with little or no work being done.

It'll be the end of a chain. All the other factors to make it work need completion first. When GCD happens it will be surprisingly fast.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

When will the work at GCD be finished? - it has been going on forever with little or no work being done.

Quite the opposite - it may not appear obvious to you but there has been significant work done, and the track layout has changed several times.

Re-signalling work is not necessarily obvious to the eye, and most of the time work will be done at night.

The work is due to complete during the summer.

1huge1

Sam Russell wrote: »

When will the work at GCD be finished? - it has been going on forever with little or no work being done.

Get off at GCD everyday, haven't seen a thing done there since last Autumn.

LXFlyer

1huge1 wrote: »

Get off at GCD everyday, haven't seen a thing done there since last Autumn.

At the risk of repeating myself, the track between Pearse and GCD has been realigned several times to facilitate these works - just because you can't see a change doesn't mean that work isn't happening.


As I posted above, the work would mainly be carried out at night.

Sam Russell

It must be two years since they started.

trellheim

There are weekly possessions of the line around cabra to do work ; it is very very busy and has been for ages. there is a huge worksite at the old cabra cement works.

Sam Russell

trellheim wrote: »

There are weekly possessions of the line around cabra to do work ; it is very very busy and has been for ages. there is a huge worksite at the old cabra cement works.

I was over there in Cabra today and there is a lot of work being done on the line. It looks like a complete relaying of the line from PPT.

However, GCD is missing the link for the north bound Dart to get to platform three - the overhead wires are done, but the gap remains.

Long Time Lurker

Any pics of the various goings on anywhere!

cowboyjoe

This is what someone in the NTA responded when I enquired about the progress of the PPT at the end of February:

"the civils and permanent way works to enable the trains to run will be complete by mid-year. However, there will have to be a public consultation and discussion with drivers etc. regarding the new service and this could delay the start of services. At this stage I don’t know if or by how long it will actually be delayed but I will keep you updated."

Grandeeod

cowboyjoe wrote: »

This is what someone in the NTA responded when I enquired about the progress of the PPT at the end of February:

"the civils and permanent way works to enable the trains to run will be complete by mid-year. However, there will have to be a public consultation and discussion with drivers etc. regarding the new service and this could delay the start of services. At this stage I don’t know if or by how long it will actually be delayed but I will keep you updated."

LOL!

ClovenHoof

Nothing ever changes at CIE Unions except their pay increases.

flyingsnail

I came across some pictures of the works

http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/2016/03/23/take-the-trees-away-and-wow/

Deedsie

I know that it is planned that these trains will stop at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara and Grand Canal Dock but why is Pearse Station not a stop on the planned route? Will the train not have to go through Pearse on the way to Grand Canal Dock?

Michael D Not Higgins

Deedsie wrote: »

I know that it is planned that these trains will stop at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara and Grand Canal Dock but why is Pearse Station not a stop on the planned route? Will the train not have to go through Pearse on the way to Grand Canal Dock?

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenixparktunnel

Pearse is mentioned here.

LXFlyer

Deedsie wrote: »

I know that it is planned that these trains will stop at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara and Grand Canal Dock but why is Pearse Station not a stop on the planned route? Will the train not have to go through Pearse on the way to Grand Canal Dock?

Yes they will stop at Pearse.

ClovenHoof

The service will be very popular and now the line is secure for decades to come.

lucernarian

I don't see any definitive mention here on whether the tunnel and track alignment as currently built could accommodate catenary wires. Not a big deal if the tunnel isn't electrified now but it should be renovated with a view to having catenary installed at a future date... Even lower the track bed now if necessary and leave the wiring for another time.

Markcheese

lucernarian wrote:

I don't see any definitive mention here on whether the tunnel and track alignment as currently built could accommodate catenary wires. Not a big deal if the tunnel isn't electrified now but it should be renovated with a view to having catenary installed at a future date... Even lower the track bed now if necessary and leave the wiring for another time.

Is lowering the trackbed on a victorian tunnel a simple job ?? Would have thought that'd be akin to undermining the foundations...

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

Is lowering the trackbed on a victorian tunnel a simple job ?? Would have thought that'd be akin to undermining the foundations...

You'd have to reconstruct the foundations as part of the job.

L1011

Non-catenary options exist for lower-roofed tunnels for the type of relatively low voltage DC system we use at least. Rigid overhead contact systems.

JosephPatrick

Looking forward to this commencing. Hopefully there will be good connections with intercity services too.

Would be nice to be able to buy a ticket for example from Waterford/Cork/Limerick - Grand Canal Dock without having to get both the Luas and the Dart.

1huge1

JosephPatrick wrote: »

Looking forward to this commencing. Hopefully there will be good connections with intercity services too.

Would be nice to be able to buy a ticket for example from Waterford/Cork/Limerick - Grand Canal Dock without having to get both the Luas and the Dart.

Maybe some day, but for the moment the capacity isn't there. It'll only be 4 trains per hour (per direction) for the first while and they will all be commuter trains.

Best bet for the moment is probably a stop at Newbridge for the intercity trains and change there.

I'm fairly confident that take up will be high on this almost from day one. I'm interested to see how it will compare to getting the Luas, its workers in the IFSC that I have in mind.

Grandeeod

I'm going to quote a newly elected FF TD from Kildare. His quote is from last August. It's yet another example of how absolutely twisted all this can be. I've bolded the bit that really pisses me off as it displays a complete disregard for facts.

Kildare County Councillor and general election candidate James Lawless has said today’s announcement that the Phoenix Park tunnel is to start upgrade works is positive step.

Councillor Lawless is a daily commuter on the Heuston line from Naas and Sallins station for the past decade and is also founder and spokesperson of the commuter lobby group Naas and Sallins Rail Users Group (NASRUG) which lobbies for rail services.

He commented: “This is a positive step but it is not a panacea. Whilst I will always welcome investment in the railway, the Phoenix Park tunnel is not the holy grail many hold it out to be. It does have the definite benefit of connecting the two major rail routes across the country for the first time in a hundred years. On the flip side it does little to get Kildare line commuters into the south part of the city where most of them want to go. Services using the park tunnel will terminate at Connolly and the journey time is not necessarily better than the current LUAS link option.”

For the record, he has always been against the PPT as a partial solution to Kildare commuters on the basis of DU and keeping his supporters happy that want to get off 20 trains an hour at Heuston.:rolleyes:

We're not there yet!:D

LXFlyer

1huge1 wrote: »

Maybe some day, but for the moment the capacity isn't there. It'll only be 4 trains per hour (per direction) for the first while and they will all be commuter trains.

Best bet for the moment is probably a stop at Newbridge for the intercity trains and change there.

I'm fairly confident that take up will be high on this almost from day one. I'm interested to see how it will compare to getting the Luas, its workers in the IFSC that I have in mind.

There won't be four trains an hour - the press made this mistake from the outset and so have all the threads here.

It will be one train per hour off-peak in either direction, and two, possibly three trains an hour at peak times in the direction of peak travel flow.

All trains will operate to Grand Canal Dock, serving Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, and Pearse en route, most likely starting at Newbridge as it has a turnback platform.

Stephen15

lxflyer wrote: »

All trains will operate to Grand Canal Dock, serving Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, and Pearse en route, most likely starting at Newbridge as it has a turnback platform.

I don't see why they can't run some all the way to bray stopping at landsdowne road, sydney parade, blackrock, dun laoghaire and bray or at least at peak hours

end of the road

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see why they can't run some all the way to bray stopping at landsdowne road, sydney parade, blackrock, dun laoghaire and bray or at least at peak hours

because there are plenty of trains doing that journey. that section of track cannot cope with any more trains

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

because there are plenty of trains doing that journey. that section of track cannot cope with any more trains

Maybe not bray but they could go as far as the rarely used platform 3 in dun laoghaire station which only gets one train a day ito puzzles me why one dart a day only goes as far as dun laoghaire

end of the road

Stephen15 wrote: »

Maybe not bray but they could go as far as the rarely used platform 3 in dun laoghaire station which only gets one train a day ito puzzles me why one dart a day only goes as far as dun laoghaire

there are enough trains doing that journey and if the 10 minute frequency goes ahead there will be no scope for any more trains

kc56

Stephen15 wrote: »

I don't see why they can't run some all the way to bray stopping at landsdowne road, sydney parade, blackrock, dun laoghaire and bray or at least at peak hours

The service will require additional trains, at least 3 and maybe even 4, and running to Bray would require even more. GCD will provide cross platform connections to the DART.

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

there are enough trains doing that journey and if the 10 minute frequency goes ahead there will be no scope for any more trains

Well a two minute frequency is possible

MrMorooka

Any info on if the anti-peak direction trains would operate in service, or will they run express ECS to get in position?

LXFlyer

MrMorooka wrote: »

Any info on if the anti-peak direction trains would operate in service, or will they run express ECS to get in position?

I would expect that you'd have just the one train an hour in the other direction.

Presumably the other trains will either return to Newbridge ECS (empty coaching stock) to operate another train, or else back to the depot/Connolly for storage during the day.

cowboyjoe

lxflyer wrote: »

I would expect that you'd have just the one train an hour in the other direction.

Presumably the other trains will either return to Newbridge ECS (empty coaching stock) to operate another train, or else back to the depot/Connolly for storage during the day.

To quote the NTA person involved with this, she seems to think the 4trains per hour thru the PPT peak is what we should expect:


"Regarding the timetable, this has not yet been agreed but roughly 4 per hour in the peak times (7am to 9am) and 1 per hour off peak. Same in the evening peak. They should run roughly every 15mins in the peak hours."

This schedule will all be at the mercy of our transport unions however, lucky us.

Captain Chaos

BoatMad wrote: »

anyway lets forget all this talk of 10 minute Dart , not going to happen this year anyway

What are they going to do with the 20 extra drivers they trained up? Let them go because there is suddenly no prospect of work for them to do.

Infini

Captain Chaos wrote: »

What are they going to do with the 20 extra drivers they trained up? Let them go because there is suddenly no prospect of work for them to do.

Probably use them for relief and such in the meantime. Its not like many of the new drivers arent already doing this (a good few of the first batch of drivers ended up replacing long term sickness drivers in the 1st place). Besides from what cullen said there yesterday the drivers in question wont be fully passed out till June.

The 10min service may yet come but not without revisions and such to take account of the reality on the ground. Did hear a rumor going around that the 10min service might not come till November at the earliest considering the problems that have yet to be resolved and the completion of the KRPP2 project and gcd works later this summer.

Paddico

Has an opening/begin date been put on this project?

cgcsb

Paddico wrote: »

Has an opening/begin date been put on this project?

As we've seen in the news there is unlikely to operations through the PPT or 10 minute frequencies or any other service improvements until union demands are met.

trellheim

A large amount of permanent way work is in progress from GCD to and including PPT currently , they've been slaving for months. The infra piece looks like from where I sit that its going along nicely.

Elemonator

Only 4 trains? Seems a little low?

Captain Chaos

Elemonator wrote: »

Only 4 trains? Seems a little low?

Not really when you consider they have to slot between DART, Maynooth, Drogheda, Dundalk and Rosslare commuter train slots that also share the line from Connolly to GCD.

The line between Connolly and GCD will become the busiest and most congested part of the entire Irish Rail network when all this comes online.

cgcsb

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not really when you consider they have to slot between DART, Maynooth, Drogheda, Dundalk and Rosslare commuter train slots that also share the line from Connolly to GCD.

The line between Connolly and GCD will become the busiest and most congested part of the entire Irish Rail network when all this comes online.

Is it not already?