Dunnes workers to strike

efb

loho wrote: »

I am not saying that there are not issues and people with grevances. If you look at my previous posts I have not said that Dunnes Stores are in any way perfect. Trust me there are days I have dreaded the sight of the place but I think everyone gets that at one stage or another no matter where they work.

My question which no one seems to be able to answer is why are Mandate leading with a tag line of zero hour contracts and excessive use of temp contracts when this is not happening? Why cant this be based on genuine facts and issues?

Another huge issue is that there is so much division among the staff that this will immediately undermine anything the union are trying to achieve so why is this forging ahead? If their intentions are completely wholesome and beneficial to the staff they should have the vast majority of them backing them up but this is not the case.

Of 9000 - 10000 staff Mandate represent approx 5000. Of these 5000 only 3000 voted in the ballot. Of that 3000, 1800 voted yes. So you have a situation where 1800 people are bringing out 9000. There are also 3 stores, I think, that have SIPTU members and these are not taking part in strike.

Im not telling people not to join the union or not to strike. If you believe in fighting for something fight but again why isn't this campaign being fought for by all the workers as its apparently in their interests? Why isn't union membership nearly 100%? Why are people leaving the union in Dunnes?

Where arr you getting your figures from?

efb

They are on zero hour contracts
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html
If Dunnes didn't bring them in for 15 hours that's the minimum by law they must be paid so mag gets her 15 hours worth

Tugboats

loho wrote: »

Why isn't union membership nearly 100%? Why are people leaving the union in Dunnes?

As you know Dunnes don't have a closed shop policy. In the past Dunnes have made life difficult for those in a union and those trying to get a store active. I know years ago Dunnes more or less had a budget for unfair dismissals and were quite happy to pay to get rid of "troublemakers". To this day it's a big regret of mine that I never got a job there while in college. They were throwing around 8-10k payoffs like confetti

Going back to one of my earlier questions as a manager have you done anything about the bullying of your staff that you witnessed?

PopePalpatine

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive done work for companies wanting to actively monitor, discourage and quash union activities. Theres a company very active in Ireland helping employers keep the union wolves from the doors.

Ah, so you're helping greedy pricks bring back the old days of blacklisting workers who stood up for themselves?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

start at 0 and work up till people stop leaving / start applying for the job , thats how the value of labour is calculated

Did you write this from the eighteenth century?

There are different models used for establishing payment rates but this roughshod trial-and-error method isn't one of them. For starters, labour and output have a dynamic relationship, then there's management theory, and of course labour laws.

Full Marx

Tesco uses banded contracts. So too can Dunnes if they wanted to

nice_guy80

Full Marx wrote: »

Tesco uses banded contracts. So too can Dunnes if they wanted to

Exactly
And if it means less people working in the shops, but on proper hours, then so be it.

Full Marx

This Thursday, April 2nd, workers in Dunnes Stores throughout the country are coming out on a one-day strike. In essence, the dispute boils down to two urgent issues.

The first is zero/low hour contracts. Such contracts require employees to be available for work but do not guarantee hours of work. Therefore, workers cannot be assured of their income from one week to the next. And because hours and shifts change, workers cannot plan childcare, eldercare, family time or leisure.

The Dunnes Stores Workers are seeking what is called ‘banded hours’. This means people are rostered in such a manner that they are guaranteed a minimum and maximum number of working hours and, so, income.

While Dunnes Stores management might claim (if they ever went public to defend their position) they require roster flexibility, banded hours are widespread throughout the industry (e.g. Tesco, Marks & Spencer, Arnotts, Pennys, to name a few). This is from Jennifer who has worked for eight years with Tesco:

‘Unlike my Dunnes colleagues, I am much more fortunate in that I have the stability and security of a banded contract. This allows me the guarantee of 30-35 hours every week but also, it does not restrict me to 35 hours. In the event that extra hours become available, I am able to work up to and including 39 hours weekly.’

The fact is that flexibility is a diversion. Management uses the roster as an instrument of control, punishment and reward to create a compliant and submissive workforce. If you try to organise a union in the workplace or make a health and safety complaint – don’t expect too many hours next week.
http /notesonthefront. typepad.com/

From Michael Taft of UNITE

(on a side not is there a reason I don't seem to have access to any formatting buttons/tools?)

McLoughlin

Full Marx wrote: »

This Thursday, April 2nd, workers in Dunnes Stores throughout the country are coming out on a one-day strike. In essence, the dispute boils down to two urgent issues.

The first is zero/low hour contracts. Such contracts require employees to be available for work but do not guarantee hours of work. Therefore, workers cannot be assured of their income from one week to the next. And because hours and shifts change, workers cannot plan childcare, eldercare, family time or leisure.

The Dunnes Stores Workers are seeking what is called ‘banded hours’. This means people are rostered in such a manner that they are guaranteed a minimum and maximum number of working hours and, so, income.

While Dunnes Stores management might claim (if they ever went public to defend their position) they require roster flexibility, banded hours are widespread throughout the industry (e.g. Tesco, Marks & Spencer, Arnotts, Pennys, to name a few). This is from Jennifer who has worked for eight years with Tesco:

‘Unlike my Dunnes colleagues, I am much more fortunate in that I have the stability and security of a banded contract. This allows me the guarantee of 30-35 hours every week but also, it does not restrict me to 35 hours. In the event that extra hours become available, I am able to work up to and including 39 hours weekly.’

The fact is that flexibility is a diversion. Management uses the roster as an instrument of control, punishment and reward to create a compliant and submissive workforce. If you try to organise a union in the workplace or make a health and safety complaint – don’t expect too many hours next week.
http /notesonthefront. typepad.com/

From Michael Taft of UNITE

(on a side not is there a reason I don't seem to have access to any formatting buttons/tools?)

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

efb

McLoughlin wrote: »

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

I explained earlier they are by definition zero hour contracts - if they expect then to be available for up to 40 hours they must pay them 25% (15 hours) so mag makes sure they work it.call it flexi contracts if you will but they are the same thing

end of the road

McLoughlin wrote: »

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

wrong

johnnyskeleton

McLoughlin wrote: »

Two problems with this there is NO zero hour ontracts and there is a guaranteed a minimum number of working hours.

end of the road wrote: »

wrong

Either provide references or an explanation as to your views (see efb's response above) or your post falls short of the standard required for this forum. I honestly don't know which of you two is actually right, but in terms of making bare assertions in this thread, you are both wrong in my view

end of the road

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Either provide references or an explanation as to your views (see efb's response above) or your post falls short of the standard required for this forum. I honestly don't know which of you two is actually right, but in terms of making bare assertions in this thread, you are both wrong in my view

this is the best i could find. i couldn't find anything that stated there were no 0 hours contracts. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dunnes-row-over-15hour-contracts-30223301.html

Farmer Pudsey

Hard to know who is right or wrong. Know that lots of students have jobs in Dunnes. Dunnes however has issue's. I expect that it has kept market share at the cost of margin. Its has failed to deverlop premier own brand products unlike Tesco and Supervalue. Aldi and Lidl are taking the floor from under all lower brand products. This is especially true in the non foodcleaning and hygiene section. The other retailers never really developed as broad a range as they have accross all these products There simple plan of stocking a small high quality range especially by Aldi is putting pressure on all other retailers.

However Dunnes is not the worst offender of low hours contracts. And as well it starts workers on the minimu wage or above. The same cannot be said for for some clother retailers who used the training rate over Christmas and only gave 4.5 max hour shilfts and alot of the time less. Maybe Mandate shou;d have targeted these first.

Dunnes is under pressure since Ben Dunne left. I imagine that Margaret Hefferenan has a good understanding of the clothes trade but is not as sharp a food retailer as her brother Ben was. Dunnes has drifted over the years but has managed to retain market share. Tesco's share has fallen but I imagine it has kept margin and it use of automated technologhy is more than likly keeping costs down. Also it has managed to develop premium (in there customers eyes) own brands.

Dunnes is not in such a happy position its failure to use automated technology( maybe it is not suiting it customer base I do not think it is in all Tesco stores) has left it with a high cost base. However automated technologhy is not always the answer, it require a larger footprint and is suitable only to the small basket shopper. I imagine this is why Aldi and Lidl have not gone with it.

I feel sorry for Dunnes workers if what they are claiming is true. However if Dunnes margin has tightened over the last few years then a strike may not help the situtation

end of the road

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

some clother retailers who used the training rate over Christmas and only gave 4.5 max hour shilfts and alot of the time less. Maybe Mandate shou;d have targeted these first.

i would suspect mandate are dealing with these companies.

nice_guy80

end of the road wrote: »

i would suspect mandate are dealing with these companies.

Heatons?
Penneys?

johnnyskeleton

General talk about Union leaders moved here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057406447#

Godge

efb wrote: »

They are on zero hour contracts
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html
If Dunnes didn't bring them in for 15 hours that's the minimum by law they must be paid so mag gets her 15 hours worth

I think you are wrong. Look at the information again.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html

"The Act requires that an employee under a zero-hours contract who works less than 25% of their hours in any week should be compensated. The level of compensation depends on whether the employee got any work or none at all. If the employee got no work, then the compensation should be either for 25% of the possible available hours or for 15 hours, whichever is less."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dunnes-row-over-15hour-contracts-30223301.html

If you have a contract for 15 hours a week, the minimum agreed for Dunnes
according to the second link, then you must be paid a minimum of 3.75 hours per week, one quarter of your contract.

There is nothing around that clearly states what the dispute is about. I would guess that the issue Mandate have with Dunnes is that they are honouring the commitment to a minimum 15 hour contract but are only rostering and therefore paying for somewhere between 3.75 and 15. As a result, Dunnes are honouring the letter of the agreement but are in clear breach of the spirit and intent of the agreement. That type of situation allows both sides to claim they are right.

efb

Godge wrote: »

I think you are wrong. Look at the information again.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html

"The Act requires that an employee under a zero-hours contract who works less than 25% of their hours in any week should be compensated. The level of compensation depends on whether the employee got any work or none at all. If the employee got no work, then the compensation should be either for 25% of the possible available hours or for 15 hours, whichever is less."

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dunnes-row-over-15hour-contracts-30223301.html

If you have a contract for 15 hours a week, the minimum agreed for Dunnes
according to the second link, then you must be paid a minimum of 3.75 hours per week, one quarter of your contract.

There is nothing around that clearly states what the dispute is about. I would guess that the issue Mandate have with Dunnes is that they are honouring the commitment to a minimum 15 hour contract but are only rostering and therefore paying for somewhere between 3.75 and 15. As a result, Dunnes are honouring the letter of the agreement but are in clear breach of the spirit and intent of the agreement. That type of situation allows both sides to claim they are right.

It's 1/4 of the availability not the minimum. So if they are required to be available mon sun during working hours 25% is 15 hours

They are not required to be available to work only 15 hours a week. They have to be available all the times on the contract.

rob316

Wow just finished reading the thread there is some amount of ****e been spouted in here.

Protecting a struggling business like Dunne's from a union, give me a break.
As someone who has worked for Dunne's, worked with Dunne's and had business dealings with Dunne's they are ruthless from top to bottom of management, they are as unethical a company as any.

Retail is up and down it sure is but this is Dunne's we are talking about not a sole trader with a couple of shops. They are well able to predict sales patterns.

All the staff want is banded contracts, Tesco do it why can't Dunne's? Low paid workers deserve to be protected. 15 hours is not sufficient employment and when its spread over 5 days its ****ing scandalous.

Shop in Dunne's tomorrow if you want but don't do it show solidarity for a company like Dunne's that treats its staff with utter contempt.

PopePalpatine

rob316 wrote: »

Shop in Dunne's tomorrow if you want but don't do it show solidarity for a company like Dunne's that treats its staff with utter contempt.

Welcome to free market libertarianism!

Godge

http://www.thejournal.ie/dunnes-stores-strike-4-2024976-Apr2015/


"DUNNES STORES IS offering 20% off everything in its online store, exclusively today, as thousands of its workers picket outside 107 of the chain’s stores."

Disgusting.

Eric Cartman

24 carling for 24 euro, savage value

efb

Eric Cartman wrote: »

24 carling for 24 euro, savage value

It's dreadful stiff

Tugboats

Eric Cartman wrote: »

24 carling for 24 euro, savage value

A grown "man" posting pic of his Dunnes receipt to strangers on a message board:o

rob316

^

Glad your working hard to provide yourself with piss Carling. :rolleyes:

Glad your proud of yourself, you may never experience working in Dunne's but I hope any of your future children don't have to suffer it. Ruled by a gang of bullies.

ricero

Several of my mates broke the picket today and went into work in Dunne's. Said that this dispute didn't effect them so opted out of the union last week.

Said it was the easiest days work they ever did in their lives.

Tugboats

rob316 wrote: »

^

Glad your working hard to provide yourself with piss Carling. :rolleyes:

Glad your proud of yourself, you may never experience working in Dunne's but I hope any of your future children don't have to suffer it. Ruled by a gang of bullies.

thats the least of his problems. He drove home from Dunnes with an erection thinking of posting the receipt online:o

rob316

Tugboats wrote: »

thats the least of his problems. He drove home from Dunnes with an erection thinking of posting the receipt online:o

Some people live very empty lives that they get enjoyment of walking past a bunch of low paid workers who but there jobs on the line today for fair contracts.

Dunne's is a piece of **** of a company and will continue to be. The workers are in for a savage fight with a company who are in my experience incredibly arrogant and difficult to deal with.

Steppenwolfe

ricero wrote: »

Several of my mates broke the picket today and went into work in Dunne's. Said that this dispute didn't effect them so opted out of the union last week.

Said it was the easiest days work they ever did in their lives.

It does affect them. They're just not bright enough to realise how.

ricero

Steppenwolfe wrote: »

It does affect them. They're just not bright enough to realise how.

How ?

They have part time contracts and have been working for Dunnes since id say 2008 when they were teenagers.

boundlessSea

I forgot about the strike today when I went to Dunnes I thought the two people outside were charity collectors but I saw two managers at the door staring at the people outside, then looked more closely and saw they were workers on strike, I suspect the intention of the managers was to intimidate the staff picketing, which seemed to be at least partly working as they were very quiet.

Sadly some people were shopping in the store, most which were office workers with much better working conditions and pay than Dunnes workers, we all need to support each other. The state should ensure that companies like Dunnes are unionized and that all workers are treated fairly and with dignity.

Steppenwolfe

ricero wrote: »

How ?

They have part time contracts and have been working for Dunnes since id say 2008 when they were teenagers.

I shouldn't have to explain this. Any conditions they have now or will have in the future is down to people on picket lines. And not just in Dunnes or this case specifically. As for leaving the union to pass the picket line, I can't find the words to express my contempt adequetly.

Brendan Bendar

boundlessSea wrote: »

I forgot about the strike today when I went to Dunnes I thought the two people outside were charity collectors but I saw two managers at the door staring at the people outside, then looked more closely and saw they were workers on strike, I suspect the intention of the managers was to intimidate the staff picketing, which seemed to be at least partly working as they were very quiet.

Sadly some people were shopping in the store, most which were office workers with much better working conditions and pay than Dunnes workers, we all need to support each other. The state should ensure that companies like Dunnes are unionized and that all workers are treated fairly and with dignity.

Have great sympathy with the Dunnes workers, but that post is off the wall.

With all due respect, reminiscent of the USSR..
Sorry lad this is 2015.

end of the road

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Have great sympathy with the Dunnes workers, but that post is off the wall.

With all due respect, reminiscent of the USSR..
Sorry lad this is 2015.

exactly. so we now more then ever need to unite to stop unscrupulous employers from taking us backwards, to the bad old days. something employers are trying to do

PopePalpatine

rob316 wrote: »

^

Glad your working hard to provide yourself with piss Carling. :rolleyes:

Glad your proud of yourself, you may never experience working in Dunne's but I hope any of your future children don't have to suffer it. Ruled by a gang of bullies.

That sums up a lot of libertarian Scrooges.

Guffy

Store i had worked in laid on a feed for the staff. Rashers, sambos, sausages, whole chickens, sweets, drinks, etc.

Picket line started shouting at the lads who dropped out of union...

Picket line, 'hope it was worth it for a few rashers, x'

X, ' not really, but the sausages and sandwiches went down a treat alright'.


With all the talk it looked very poorly organised. Shop steward in store spent months intimidating people to join union and pulled out himself the week before.

Personally i agree with the union. The flexi contract is horrible. 30 hours one week 17 the next. You just can't plan anything. Same with holidays. I was going to states one new year. Put in the holiday request in June but hr wouldn't give me an answer until late November no matter how many times i asked. In the end i had to tell her I'm not available do what you want. I'll send in a cert if you make me. Cost me bout a hundred quid on flights.

Full Marx

You'd want to be some saddo to purposely go break a picket to buy some crap beer just to get to post the receipt online.

I was down at the picket for a few hours yesterday before and after work - the treatment from managers was horrendous, but even worse IMO were the scabs who broke the picket. All in all though the strike seems to have been widely respected, the two stores I were at were deserted except for a handful of foreign people who I do t think understood what was going on (no English)

So odd how people who align to the right, whether because they genuinely believe in what they say or are simply trolling, are so fond of minimum-hour contracts.

However, minimum-hour contracts are likely to be harmful to the economy and may be a serious drain on the taxpayer in the following ways.

1. Employment inertia.
Employment inertia refers to the tendency to 'settle' in a job, or to the time and energy constraints experienced by workers when thinking about applying for a new job. Erratic work demands mean that workers are in a weaker position to set-aside time to seek regular, full-time work than the 'full-time unemployed'. Yet, on the days when workers are unemployed, they impose a charge on the Department of Social Protection.

2. Non-investment in training
Businesses that avail of these 'pop-up workers' have no incentive to invest in the training and skills base of those workers. One of the major benefits of working is the training and skills that are acquired, and are necessary to progress. A lack of training, on the other hand, impedes progression and traps workers as low-paid unskilled, unreliable work. These workers are likely to be less employable than other workers, and to be more dependant on the taxpayer. Ironically, it is usually the pop-up workers who most-need workplace training.

3. Weak reinvestment
Ordinarily, enterprises ensure profitability by focussing on business efficiency and reinvestment. The greater the profits to be reinvested, the more the enterprise will feel bound to its investment, and therefore to the economy. However, managers that can readily discard workers have less incentive to invest and meet efficiency 'the hard way', since profitability can just be manipulated by discarding workers over the short term. Ultimately, this is bad for the business, for corporate investment, and economic stability.

There are various other, obvious reasons why workers should be concerned about the spillover effects of minimum-hour contracts. However, the above are reasons why other businesses and other economic stakeholders should also be concerned about the use of these forms of contracts.

Simon2015

Before the strike I had never realized that most of dunnes workers are on temporary contracts.

CarrickMcJoe

Shame on Dunnes in Dundalk for sacking one of their workers for joining the picket.

end of the road

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Shame on Dunnes in Dundalk for sacking one of their workers for joining the picket.

didn't know about this. but sadly not surprised. what <snip>. hope the person finds better work in a place that will treat them with respect soon.

Greenmachine

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Shame on Dunnes in Dundalk for sacking one of their workers for joining the picket.

Was he a member of the union in question? Serious question.

PopePalpatine

end of the road wrote: »

didn't know about this. but sadly not surprised. what <snip>. hope the person finds better work in a place that will treat them with respect soon.

I hope they successfully sue Dunnes for unfair dismissal.

I await the Twatcherites' jeering.

Eric Cartman

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I hope they successfully sue Dunnes for unfair dismissal.

I await the Twatcherites' jeering.

I don't think anyone is going to jeer somebody losing their job, and hopefully this individual finds employment they're happy with soon, but this result was hardly surprising.

CarrickMcJoe

Greenmachine wrote: »

Was he a member of the union in question? Serious question.

Don't know. Doing the shopping yesterday and cashier we usually go to was telling us. Apparently he had 4 days to go before he would be made full time and management called him in and said he was no longer needed.
This was in the Marshes.

Tugboats

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Don't know. Doing the shopping yesterday and cashier we usually go to was telling us. Apparently he had 4 days to go before he would be made full time and management called him in and said he was no longer needed.
This was in the Marshes.

Probably nothing to with the strike. They let most people go before they can get a full time contract and climb the pay scale these days

tomwaterford

Greenmachine wrote: »

Was he a member of the union in question? Serious question.

What's that to do with anything.....no one anywhere should cross a picket line

Guffy

tomwaterford wrote: »

What's that to do with anything.....no one anywhere should cross a picket line

He doesn't have the protection of the union. He just decided he wasn't arsed going to work. IF he knew he wouldn't cross picket should have joined up the week before

Greyian

tomwaterford wrote: »

What's that to do with anything.....no one anywhere should cross a picket line

And why is that? Should everyone just support people who are on strike, regardless of their working conditions and salaries? If Dunnes workers were working 30 hour a week contracts, at €50 an hour, and the union decided to strike because they wanted €100/hour, should any/all staff members at Dunnes who are happy with their €50/hour refuse to work in support of those on strike, or are they entitled to be of the opinion that the people on strike are delusional and continue working as normal?

If you don't support what people are on strike for, you are under no obligation whatsoever to respect their picket line (in terms of not crossing it, obviously you can't start abusing them or anything like that).