Why Does Nintendo Have A Death Wish?

da gamer

nesf wrote: »

I think the problem here is just one person hearing "best system" and the other saying "best system to buy right now." You both have points but you're not really disagreeing with each other just using different understandings of "best system" which is reasonable.

Your probably right. Anyway I'm not arsed getting into a my console is better than yours argument. I'm a Nintendo fan, and more importantly I'm a gaming fan. When Nintendo do something right, it can be the best thing in the world. But in my opinion they don't do it often enough anymore

Retr0gamer

The WiiU might be a disaster but at the moment Nintendo are absolutely knocking it out of the park with amazing game releases on 3DS and WiiU and they are going through probably their most productive phase ever in terms of games released. They're hardly not doing it right enough anymore when where it counts, the actual games, they are doing so wellin terms of the quality they are putting out.

da gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The WiiU might be a disaster but at the moment Nintendo are absolutely knocking it out of the park with amazing game releases on 3DS and WiiU and they are going through probably their most productive phase ever in terms of games released. They're hardly not doing it right enough anymore when where it counts, the actual games, they are doing so wellin terms of the quality they are putting out.

Whatever you say so retrogamer. It's easier agree with you

Retr0gamer

da gamer wrote: »

Whatever you say so retrogamer. It's easier agree with you

I'd rather if people would attempt to defend these statements because they don't add up, I might understand them better. I see similar statements everywhere online like these. The facts just don't back these statements up at all but people thinking like this is a very real thing and should be a worry for nintendo. They are producing some of the finest games they've ever made but there just seems to be a disconnect between them and the common or garden joe soap gamer.

Yawns

Feck that OP, Mrs Yawns plays the SNES still and the kids love it as well. 6 yr old and 2 yr old. Games work perfectly still cos they are cartridges

CiDeRmAn

No point in owning two powerful F1 racing cars if all you pour in the tank is p1ss.
I'd rather take the Lexus and use petrol.

nesf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'd rather if people would attempt to defend these statements because they don't add up, I might understand them better. I see similar statements everywhere online like these. The facts just don't back these statements up at all but people thinking like this is a very real thing and should be a worry for nintendo. They are producing some of the finest games they've ever made but there just seems to be a disconnect between them and the common or garden joe soap gamer.

As above, the Youtube thing, cannot be ignored as a lawyer problem. As above **** Wii U launch, great later but they really dropped the ball on it and almost killed the console which would have been terrible for gaming. The new 3DS launch has not gone well, not Nintendo's fault directly but it will impact public opinion of them. Pricing both on consoles and games has been a painful point for a lot of people used to different pricing models. The games have been great no question and I'd advise someone looking for the best console games right now to get a Wii U but Nintendo have been doing some stupid things.

Not that any of the above really have much to do with the title of the thread.

Dayum

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The WiiU might be a disaster but at the moment Nintendo are absolutely knocking it out of the park with amazing game releases on 3DS and WiiU and they are going through probably their most productive phase ever in terms of games released. They're hardly not doing it right enough anymore when where it counts, the actual games, they are doing so wellin terms of the quality they are putting out.

Jaysus.....are you on their wage list?

Not knocking.....just.....well, ****ing hell.

nesf

Dayum wrote: »

Jaysus.....are you on their wage list?

Not knocking.....just.....well, ****ing hell.

Are you high or something?

Mr E

Every time I come back to read this thread, I'm like this...

abbir

Dayum wrote: »

Jaysus.....are you on their wage list?

Not knocking.....just.....well, ****ing hell.

Nintendo published games released in Europe 2014/2015 (so far)

DKC: Tropical Freeze
NES Remix 2
Mario Kart 8
Pushmo World
Hyrule Warriors
Bayonetta 2
Super Smash Bros (3DS & Wii U)
Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
Yoshi's New Island
Mario Golf: World Tour
Kirby: Triple Deluxe
Tomodachi Life
Pokemon Art Academy
Fantasy Life
Pokemon Alpha Sapphire/Omega Ruby
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Are you going to tell me that's not a stunning list for ONE company to publish in the space of just over a year? I'm sure I've probably missed some others too.

Dr Bob

Cormac... wrote: »

I Whatever game I picked I'd be lamblasted by someone nattering on about The Stanley Parable or something anyway :P



50/1 OP does not own a Nintendo console or has not played a Nintendo game since Wii Sports Bowling. I will pay using the "Thanks" button. I bet 1 Thanks!

f**k the stanley parable fwiw

Huh?
The Stanley Parable was one of the best and most interesting releases in the past few years. ..

Retr0gamer

nesf wrote: »

As above, the Youtube thing, cannot be ignored as a lawyer problem. As above **** Wii U launch, great later but they really dropped the ball on it and almost killed the console which would have been terrible for gaming. The new 3DS launch has not gone well, not Nintendo's fault directly but it will impact public opinion of them. Pricing both on consoles and games has been a painful point for a lot of people used to different pricing models. The games have been great no question and I'd advise someone looking for the best console games right now to get a Wii U but Nintendo have been doing some stupid things.

Not that any of the above really have much to do with the title of the thread.

Can't deny any of that although I heard the new 3DS is selling very well. As for the pricing for consoles I feel a lot of people are annoyed the WiiU isn't cheaper which is just unrealistic on their part considering the loss Nintendo makes on them. Game pricing on the other hand is a big issue for the whole industry. People are expecting top quality games for mobile shovelware prices or free. Again nintendo games do hold their price for longer but that's due to demand (although gamestop adding a call of duty tax to every nintendo game is not doing them a favour but then gamestop isn't the only place to buy games, just the most visible).

Have to agree on the last point. Wouldn't recommend a WiiU unless I knew the person was into games. The whole negative preception people have of Nintendo games is a really idiotic stigma but a real one and the system only really caters to the niche.

On the other hand I can't recommend a One or PS4 either, wait another year would be my advice there but even still those consoles should have hit their stride by now and haven't. Come on bloodborne!

Dayum wrote: »

Jaysus.....are you on their wage list?

Not knocking.....just.....well, ****ing hell.

I don't think anyone but the most rabid/ignorant anti nintendo fanboys can say sincerely that nintendo aren't producing quality games and a lot of them.

nesf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Can't deny any of that although I heard the new 3DS is selling very well. As for the pricing for consoles I feel a lot of people are annoyed the WiiU isn't cheaper which is just unrealistic on their part considering the loss Nintendo makes on them. Game pricing on the other hand is a big issue for the whole industry. People are expecting top quality games for mobile shovelware prices or free. Again nintendo games do hold their price for longer but that's due to demand (although gamestop adding a call of duty tax to every nintendo game is not doing them a favour but then gamestop isn't the only place to buy games, just the most visible).

Have to agree on the last point. Wouldn't recommend a WiiU unless I knew the person was into games. The whole negative preception people have of Nintendo games is a really idiotic stigma but a real one and the system only really caters to the niche.

On the other hand I can't recommend a One or PS4 either, wait another year would be my advice there but even still those consoles should have hit their stride by now and haven't. Come on bloodborne!

Oh, the new 3DS is selling fantastically, it's just there was a dockworkers strike in the US so they were at least rare as hens teeth over there and people were (wrongly) annoyed with Nintendo about it when it really was a shipping issue. The games price thing is just I don't feel like paying the Nintendo premium, the demand is there yes but there's a lot of people who are not hardcore fans and who won't pay full price aren't being given the mid range discount some time after launch. It's lost money for Nintendo as it's not like these people can't just buy other games. The Wii U is a niche yes, but if someone is into gaming and not an FPS only addict there's probably something there for them.

Honestly, I'd recommend an XBox 360 or PS3 if someone didn't have them already. :P

da gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Game pricing on the other hand is a big issue for the whole industry.

Nope, it's just a Nintendo problem. Like I've said before, games like Mario 64 ds, Mario kart ds are 10 years old and still cost 40-50 Euro.

Alien isolation is less than 6 months old and can be got for under 20, as can wolfenstein the new order and countless others. Nintendo are notoriously greedy with gaming prices.

Allyall

da gamer wrote: »

Nope, it's just a Nintendo problem. Like I've said before, games like Mario 64 ds, Mario kart ds are 10 years old and still cost 40-50 Euro.

Alien isolation is less than 6 months old and can be got for under 20, as can wolfenstein the new order and countless others. Nintendo are notoriously greedy with gaming prices.

You could also argue, that the games keep their value/people still buy them at those prices.
The 'collectible' market is a big part of nintendo too. That will always be there.

da gamer

Allyall wrote: »

You could also argue, that the games keep their value/people still buy them at those prices.
The 'collectible' market is a big part of nintendo too. That will always be there.

Absolutely. I recently paid 65 quid for a special edition of majoras mask on the 3ds. And most of my 3ds games have cost 40-50 quid other than the ones not published by Nintendo. So people do buy them. But also one of the best 3ds games was resident evil revelations, not a Nintendo game and can be got for less than a tenner.

I know a few people who would go out in the morning and buy a 3ds or Wii u but they are not prepared to pay 50 quid for the games with no chance of them ever getting cheaper.

Retr0gamer

Well you can always get the games cheaper online. I got a U.S. 3DS and that's even cheaper again to import although nintendo region locking their consoles, especially the 3DS is a Dickmove of the highest order.

You do also know that publishers selling their games at Rock bottom prices after a few weeks isn't a good thing. I means the game has tanked and the publisher ends up writing off a tonne of credit to the wholesaler so the game can be reduced. The example of Alien is a good example, that game tanked badly for Sega. It's just a case of supply and demand. Like the call of duty games there's always a demand for nintendo games which is why only the very few games that tank don't get reduced. Why would nintendo reduce the price of their games when people are still willing to fork out that much for their games and when it gets to stuff like mario DS and mario kart DS, they are so old that nintendo is not bothered anymore. Why would they write off credit with a wholesaler for so few unsold copies?

Nintendo value their properties and games a lot more than other publishers that are in it for the quick buck, in a way they are a bit like Disney in that regard, and to be honest, the premium price is usually worth it for the experience nintendo puts into its games and worth a lot more than a bombed triple A that is down to 15 euro after a month.

As I said the whole price thing is going to rear its head a lot more in future as mobile becomes more popular. People want everything for dirt cheap these days or for free and some would rather play some ****e like candy crush for free than a good game. One of the worst things I've seen were people complaining about having to shock horror, pay for the DLC in monument valley. Games are costing more these days to make but people want them for less. This could lead to the collapse of the triple A market or at least a long overdue shake up.

And if that does happen I can still see Nintenod riding it out doing what they always do. They will always have heir niche as long as they keep producing quality games. Even if they do become niche they could survive just by nurturing that niche.

There's a lot of small developers and publishers that are surviving on that Nintendo model of a niche fanbase willing to pay premium for the niche products they supply. Atlus and NISA are two that spring to mind.

da gamer

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well you can always get the games cheaper online. I got a U.S. 3DS and that's even cheaper again to import although nintendo region locking their consoles, especially the 3DS is a Dickmove of the highest order.

You do also know that publishers selling their games at Rock bottom prices after a few weeks isn't a good thing. I means the game has tanked and the publisher ends up writing off a tonne of credit to the wholesaler so the game can be reduced. The example of Alien is a good example, that game tanked badly for Sega. It's just a case of supply and demand. Like the call of duty games there's always a demand for nintendo games which is why only the very few games that tank don't get reduced. Why would nintendo reduce the price of their games when people are still willing to fork out that much for their games and when it gets to stuff like mario DS and mario kart DS, they are so old that nintendo is not bothered anymore. Why would they write off credit with a wholesaler for so few unsold copies?

Nintendo value their properties and games a lot more than other publishers that are in it for the quick buck, in a way they are a bit like Disney in that regard, and to be honest, the premium price is usually worth it for the experience nintendo puts into its games and worth a lot more than a bombed triple A that is down to 15 euro after a month.

As I said the whole price thing is going to rear its head a lot more in future as mobile becomes more popular. People want everything for dirt cheap these days or for free and some would rather play some ****e like candy crush for free than a good game. One of the worst things I've seen were people complaining about having to shock horror, pay for the DLC in monument valley. Games are costing more these days to make but people want them for less. This could lead to the collapse of the triple A market or at least a long overdue shake up.

And if that does happen I can still see Nintenod riding it out doing what they always do. They will always have heir niche as long as they keep producing quality games. Even if they do become niche they could survive just by nurturing that niche.

There's a lot of small developers and publishers that are surviving on that Nintendo model of a niche fanbase willing to pay premium for the niche products they supply. Atlus and NISA are two that spring to mind.

1. Nintendo games are not much cheaper online.
2. How did alien tank? Sale and supply had nothing to do with that game. It actually exceeded their expectations. They didn't even stock the game in xtravision as they didn't think the game would sell as well as it did.
3. You ask why would Nintendo lower their prices when people are willing to fork out , I agree to an extent here, it's all about making money. However gta5 was one of the best selling games ever and is still being sold, but the price is being reduced constantly and in 10 years I guarantee it still Wont cost 50 Euro.
4. I have never played candy crush, but I bet if it had a big Nintendo sticker on the front of the case you would be telling me it's a great game worth 50 Euro.

It probably sounds like I'm dissing Nintendo, and on the pricing I suppose I am. The whole thread was started (I think) on how Nintendo is shooting itself in the foot. My point is that they charge too much for the games. I have no problem paying full whack for the consoles, but having to pay 50 Euro every time for a game makes it inaccessible for many people. You can argue all you want that the ps or Xbox doesn't have as many top quality games, but with the large library that they have both always had and games being so much cheaper it's not hard to see why people buy those consoles over Nintendo's.

I will continue to buy Nintendo games for my 3ds because I love their games. But it would be nice, now and again, to get rewarded for my loyalty by going online, or to a store, and picking up a zelda, or Mario, or Kirby, for less than 20 Euro, like I can for my ps4 or 360 or vita

CiDeRmAn

The turn over in the games market for current gen consoles is amazing, with the likes of Thief selling for 15 new soon after release.
Nintendo titles seem to have a certain prolonged lifespan.
Instead of aiming to maximise the games franchise by releasing multiple games over a formats lifespan, as in Assassins Creed, Nintendo tend to release just the one or two and let that stand for the duration of the console.
So we get one Mario Kart and one Smash Bros per gen.
Zelda and Metroid have tended to have two editions, Pikmin the same.
Rather than flood the market with a franchise annually, reducing the value of a title year on year, rather than withdraw interest and support in a title if it fails to make an immediate impact on the charts, Nintendo have allowed games to be slow burners, to generate sales throughout the formats lifespan and beyond, so Super Mario Galaxy is as fresh and playable not as it was on launch.
These features go towards the value of preowned stock bring maintained.
Also, I believe that Nintendo don't have any kind of buy back or discounting for retailers/wholesalers and this contributed to the unsubsidised prices of their games and why first party titles seldom get cheaper as quickly as third party titles do.
This is not always the case as recent deals in Argos for Kirby Triple Deluxe will attest.

johnny_ultimate

I'd agree there's a race to the bottom in terms of pricing, and I think as a result lots of people have an increasing idea of what a game is 'worth'. Humble Bundle, Steam sale or PS Plus sales aren't enough to sustain full development of games alone (except on a very small scale). Yet I've seen plenty of complaining this week that Ori - a game that has clearly had a ****load of time and energy put into it - is being sold for a mere twenty quid, which I have to confess I can not possibly see as an unreasonable asking price. Sales and discounts absolutely are here to stay and we'd all be foolish not to take advantage of them, but the price many are willing to pay is dropping lower and lower, in some cases even beyond a reasonably discounted rate.

I admire Nintendo keeping their games as a sort of 'premium' product. It's like Criterion and their DVD / Blu Ray releases - rarely on sale and certainly even then considerably more expensive than your bog standard blockbuster disc. But those who buy them are more often than not absolutely happy to pay that price, because they know what they're getting is of a good quality and put together with genuine care. They sustain their value until they go out of print (at which price the price skyrockets upwards, even if has been succeeded by a higher quality release). The thing is, if Nintendo's pricing model wasn't working you'd see it disappear quickly - but undoubtedly the best Wii, DS and 3DS have managed to sustain a steady stream of sales long after their contemporaries have graduated from the bargain bin to the local dump (in the Wii's case that includes mountains of shovelware).

That said, I do agree there are some limits - full price for a ten year old port of a twenty year old game is ripping the piss :pac: To give some credit too they are slowly learning to use the eshop for sales and the like - definitely the Wii games launched there recently have been extremely good value (a tenner for Metroid Prime Trilogy during release week was one hell of a bargain). And thankfully they're finally starting to experiment with proper cross play offers too (which has been easily one of my biggest problems with their approach to digital releases so far).

nesf

Mario and Zelda will stay expensive because someone's parent who doesn't know game pricing will fork over the money not knowing they're buying a game that from another publisher would be well discounted by now. That and they sell so well at launch Nintendo doesn't need the long tail so much.

johnny_ultimate

nesf wrote: »

Mario and Zelda will stay expensive because someone's parent who doesn't know game pricing will fork over the money not knowing they're buying a game that from another publisher would be well discounted by now. That and they sell so well at launch Nintendo doesn't need the long tail so much.

The crucial thing is that other publishers don't release Nintendo games. They're in a league of their own. People buy Mario and Zelda games because they are unique and of a reliably high quality, and in many ways because they're very different to what other publishers are offering (I have yet, for example, to play any of the myriad of Zelda-likes that match up to even the lesser entries in the Zelda series - the CDi abominations excluded). If Nintendo was offering the same sort of fare as others, then its pricing mod would be unsustainable. But they aren't, and in a sense that's why many of us would be willing to treat them differently (although as I alluded to in the post above, I wish they'd learn some lessons from their competitors in terms of simple things like cross play downloads).

It's not just ignorant parents: I play games on a ****load of different platforms from PC to Vita, and I'm still more than happy to pay full price for a new Nintendo game when I well know I could get a dozen high-quality PC releases for the same price.

Retr0gamer

da gamer wrote: »

1. Nintendo games are not much cheaper online.
2. How did alien tank? Sale and supply had nothing to do with that game. It actually exceeded their expectations. They didn't even stock the game in xtravision as they didn't think the game would sell as well as it did.
3. You ask why would Nintendo lower their prices when people are willing to fork out , I agree to an extent here, it's all about making money. However gta5 was one of the best selling games ever and is still being sold, but the price is being reduced constantly and in 10 years I guarantee it still Wont cost 50 Euro.
4. I have never played candy crush, but I bet if it had a big Nintendo sticker on the front of the case you would be telling me it's a great game worth 50 Euro.

1. No but they are a hell of a lot more reasonable than the 70 euro Gamestop charges. You'll find WiiU games for a far more reasonable 40-45 if you shop around.
2. Alien Isolation only cracked 1 million units sold after being massively discounted by Sega to shift units. With the budget of that game it's a big disaster for Sega although the they won't admit it. Sales were extremely slow until it was discounted and Sega is hiping to make money back off DLC sales.
3. GTA5 actually held its price right up until the next gen version hit after which it got heavily discounted. But again it's a supply and demand thing. It's good business by Nintendo nothing more. They keep demand high and supply to meet that demand instead of over supplying which keeps the price up. You can't really begrudge them for charging more when people are willing to buy at that price. It's not their fault you can't afford their games.
4. Playing the fanboy card I see. Well sorry to inform you I'm not a fanboy. Candy Crush is a disgusting excuse for a game that flies I the face of good game design. And guess what, nintendo did make a game like it, the free to play Pokemon Shuffle that is absolute pish. I'm very disappointed with that because they followed the mobile market free to play model when the free to play model they used for Rustys Real Deal Baseball got the free to play model so right and did it far better than any other f2p game (seriously that game does not get enough love).

nesf

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The crucial thing is that other publishers don't release Nintendo games. They're in a league of their own. People buy Mario and Zelda games because they are unique and of a reliably high quality, and in many ways because they're very different to what other publishers are offering (I have yet, for example, to play any of the myriad of Zelda-likes that match up to even the lesser entries in the Zelda series - the CDi abominations excluded). If Nintendo was offering the same sort of fare as others, then its pricing mod would be unsustainable. But they aren't, and in a sense that's why many of us would be willing to treat them differently (although as I alluded to in the post above, I wish they'd learn some lessons from their competitors in terms of simple things like cross play downloads).

It's not just ignorant parents: I play games on a ****load of different platforms from PC to Vita, and I'm still more than happy to pay full price for a new Nintendo game when I well know I could get a dozen high-quality PC releases for the same price.

I'm not talking about new games but 6 month or 12 month old titles. I disagree that there's much special about Nintendo's games other than their wonderful IP. But that's an argument for a different thread I think.

Regardless, no I don't think them making excellent games means they should be charging full prices 12 months down the line. It didn't really bother me until I became a parent and my kids started begging for these games. It's not a race to the bottom question here, it's how the market works. If Nintendo ignore market norms (which they can if they want) you really can't expect there not to be bitching about it. I refuse to pay full price for 2 year old games. Sorry, you're in the long tail of sales now, you can't expect that kind of money anymore. Unless you're selling to kids.

Retr0gamer

Kids have powerful ways of making parents fold. Just face it, you might as well give the majority of your pay cheque to nintendo and Disney from now on... And they know it :P

nesf

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Kids have powerful ways of making parents fold. Just face it, you might as well give the majority of your pay cheque to nintendo and Disney from now on... And they know it :P

Seriously the amount of money that Frozen has cost us...

Corholio

da gamer wrote: »

Nope, it's just a Nintendo problem. Like I've said before, games like Mario 64 ds, Mario kart ds are 10 years old and still cost 40-50 Euro.

Alien isolation is less than 6 months old and can be got for under 20, as can wolfenstein the new order and countless others. Nintendo are notoriously greedy with gaming prices.

Where are Mario 64 DS and Mario Kart DS €40-50 euro? Both can be got quite easily for €20 or under. Nintendo's games have always retained higher prices for longer, going back many console era's. Some of it is down to Nintendo's pricing but a lot of it is also down to the standard of the games. Paying full price for a new PS4 OR Xbox game has become a ridiculous thing to do considering the quick and substantial price drops that happens, consumers cannot be too happy with that either. At least with Nintendo games you won't feel a bit cheated 2 weeks after when it's half the price you paid for it.

BetterThanThou

I think Nintendo simply has it's own niche, Nintendo are barely even competing with Microsoft and Sony. Brand new, the Wii U can be had for as cheap at 280, whereas the PS4 and Xbox One are 400 minimum. That's a pretty significant difference. The Wii U is for people who want a cheap console they can have some fun with, the PS4 and XBO are for people who are serious gamers. Not to mention, Nintendo essentially have a monopoly on the handheld gaming market, and pretty much have for years and probably will for many more years. And I don't know what their profit margins are, but I'd imagine the Wii U cost a lot less to develop than the XBO or PS4, considering most of the technology has been around for years, for that reason, they most likely didn't need it to do particularly well.

nesf

Corholio wrote: »

Where are Mario 64 DS and Mario Kart DS €40-50 euro? Both can be got quite easily for €20 or under. Nintendo's games have always retained higher prices for longer, going back many console era's. Some of it is down to Nintendo's pricing but a lot of it is also down to the standard of the games. Paying full price for a new PS4 OR Xbox game has become a ridiculous thing to do considering the quick and substantial price drops that happens, consumers cannot be too happy with that either. At least with Nintendo games you won't feel a bit cheated 2 weeks after when it's half the price you paid for it.

Example of pricing problems for platform.

Scribblenauts Unlimited out for about a year. Nintendo Store Download for Wii U £40, Steam for PC €20.

This isn't an in-house title but it's over double the non-discounted online price for PC. You can get it much cheaper than this on PC if you want. But if they want to play it on the Wii U you're shelling out a lot. It's a great game and my kids love it but they play it on PC not on Wii U for this reason. There are some very old games on the download store for £5 but anything released since the Wii U launched is £40-£45.

This is a problem, Scribblenauts is really long past its peak in terms of popularity and sales at that price point. Christ it was in a Humble Bundle on PC and it's still being sold at this price! Can you not see that Nintendo are screwing consumers over here by fostering this price culture?