Why Does Nintendo Have A Death Wish?

Dayum

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Your last statement is blatantly inflammatory.
No, its not a joke.
The range of great titles on the console as well as the best current gen titles right now on the WiiU suggest it is anything but a joke.

But this thread is really going no where.

Too much trolling.

We're not trolling...

We're speaking in terms of sales figures. I want to see Nintendo doing well...why did they miss that opportunity?

da gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

But this thread is really going no where.

Too much trolling.

Ah here are you for real? Too much trolling? I don't want to fall out with anyone here but that's ridiculous. Some people here just can't be told they are wrong. How is questioning any companies pricing policy trolling?

spookmaster

CiDeRmAn wrote:

Picking and choosing your information to suit your theories is a poor way to debate.

Not checking your information (such as the phenomenally low price of Valiant Hearts during sale season, a game which is in fact free on PS4 at the moment) doesn't make for good debating either. Like I said, I purchased three exceptional games for €15, there is no debating that. Argue against the three titles I mentioned and I assure you you will be laughed out of the forum.

johnny_ultimate

What's the obsession with a "powerful" console? The frankly mind-boggling success of the Wii (the little console that is being left out of many of the arguments being made here, as if the period between the Gamecube and Wii U saw Nintendo enter a decade-long hibernation), by far the least 'powerful' console of its generation, proved that the consumers that drive sales into the stratosphere don't necessarily put the same weight into sheer graphical oomph as the enthusiast audience does. Ditto the PS2: again hardly the technical powerhouse of its generation, yet the resounding 'winner' of a generation (and, as a bonus, of all time - the sales figures, after all, don't lie).

Nintendo have pursued a policy of 'gaming for all' that has, up until the Wii U, been a resounding success in both creative and commercial terms (plenty scoff at the amount of 'casual' fare on Wii, but it also hosted a whole host of unusual, inventive and admirably niche titles, meaning it has one serious back catalogue of worthwhile games). It continues in the handheld market too (the Vita is by far the more 'powerful' console which is apparent the second you look at the screen, yet has been a massive commercial flop while the 3DS goes from strength to strength). Power does not always equate to success, even if the echo chamber that is gaming conversation on the internet might deceive us into believing otherwise.

Nintendo have tried competing head to head with Sony and Microsoft (and once upon a time Sega) before, and well they weren't exactly what one would dub success stories. There's probably not a place for three very similar consoles out there - two is competitive, three's a crowd (ask Sega). Nintendo have instead pursued a strategy of idiosyncratic, experimental hardware instead. It was such a success with the Wii - which was a massive gamble - and the DS - an immensely quirky (and forward-thinking) piece of hardware - that it's no surprise they tried again with the Wii U. It failed, but no doubt Nintendo are drawing up plans to try again with something that isn't merely a slightly better version of the PS4 or Xbox One. Purely as somebody who enjoys a bit of variety in console design, I look forward to seeing what it is - I don't really want four boxes that do more or less the same thing, with pretty much the same catalogue of games, and on almost identical controllers. In one way, I'd almost prefer Nintendo to go third-party than simply fall in line with the others - most modern Nintendo consoles' greatest strength is that they stand out from the crowd, and justify owning alongside a PC and another console (whereas I'm less convinced right now that I'd have much use for a PS4 and an Xbox One).

And it's also worth pointing out the Wii U is by no means a limp machine technically. First party Nintendo games continue to be some of the most visually breathtaking games out there, polished to an absolute sheen (I haven't played a PS4 game yet that runs as well as Mario Kart 8). If the raw specs can't compete with other machines out there, Nintendo have sure as hell consistently given them a run for their money anyway. It helps, naturally, that their games continue to place such value in strong, distinctive art design - and personally I'll always value that far and beyond a bland technical showcase like Crysis or The Order.

Allyall

"why they didn't see a golden opportunity in the market back in 2012 and release a powerful kit to take advantage of the thirst for a new console?"
They had just had a MASSIVE success with the Wii. Why copy the other two?
The Wii U is a sort of continuation(ish) of the wii, they just marketed it (very) poorly.
I still know loads of people who think the Wii is tennis, bowling and golf.
Which is madness if you look at the amount of games for it.

But I also read it as "the Wii U was a joke"..

Which also seems like you're unaware of the game catalog and its size.

i.e. - I don't think you would/could make that statement knowing the wii U or having played most or many of the games.

K.O.Kiki

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

And it's also worth pointing out the Wii U is by no means a limp machine technically. First party Nintendo games continue to be some of the most visually breathtaking games out there, polished to an absolute sheen (I haven't played a PS4 game yet that runs as well as Mario Kart 8). If the raw specs can't compete with other machines out there, Nintendo have sure as hell consistently given them a run for their money anyway. It helps, naturally, that their games continue to place such value in strong, distinctive art design - and on a purely personal level I'll always value that far and beyond a bland technical showcase like Crysis or The Order.

If we're talking performance, I'm still bloody amazed the Wii U can do 8-player Smash 4 at 1080p60.

abbir

spookmaster wrote: »

Not checking your information (such as the phenomenally low price of Valiant Hearts during sale season, a game which is in fact free on PS4 at the moment) doesn't make for good debating either. Like I said, I purchased three exceptional games for €15, there is no debating that. Argue against the three titles I mentioned and I assure you you will be laughed out of the forum.

The reason Valiant Hearts, Transistor and OlliOlli are poor choices for the comparison is you are not comparing like with like. Those three games are lower budget games and launched with lower price points. Super Mario 3d World is a "AAA" type game. If you want to use those games as examples you need to compare them to pricepoints for games like Pushmo World, Mario Vs Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars, Shantae and the Pirate's Curse, Mighty Switch Force etc.

CiDeRmAn

spookmaster wrote: »

Not checking your information (such as the phenomenally low price of Valiant Hearts during sale season, a game which is in fact free on PS4 at the moment) doesn't make for good debating either. Like I said, I purchased three exceptional games for €15, there is no debating that. Argue against the three titles I mentioned and I assure you you will be laughed out of the forum.

If you're going to be pedantic, I picked up Metroid Prime Trilogy for a tenner.

Try to compare like with like, rather than digital only titles like Valiant Hearts, which I have on my PS4 as well.

My information was fine, the examples I gave was the biggest exclusive the PS4 had, the rerelease of Last of Us, a phenomenal game, and one of the biggest on the WiiU, and prices from one of the biggest and most popular retailers of games in this country, Argos.
And their prices are the same.

If you want to look at games from the digital shop that's a different beast, with different pricing structures for games that only appear there.
Compare like with like ffs, or don't bother.

Truth is the WiiU is a fine machine but the public are a fickle bunch and the WiiU isn't the only platform to play host to amazing games, games better than the popular consoles, but be roundly ignored by most.
As Retr0 mentioned you have the Dreamcast, Neogeo Pocket Color and 3DO, which live in my collection alongside the Megadrive, Snes, PS1, 2, 3, 4 and the other 50 odd consoles I own.

As already stated, Nintendo have no death wish, the 3DS is making pots of cash, the Pokémon franchise is making more pots of cash, the company has returned to profit and the WiiU can tip along and Nintendo can keep releasing some of the best exclusives, if not The best exclusives this generation.
There simply isn't anything to compete with Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros and Super Mario 3D World on any other system, if you have played them then you would know.

CiDeRmAn

Dayum wrote: »

It seems this company attracts incompetence like shite attracts flies...

Back in the 90's Sony approached Nintendo about designing a CD based system and leaving the old cartridge tech in the dustbin of history. Nintendo initially liked the idea but then backed out at the last minute because, thinking they were Gods gift to the gaming industry, they wanted a bigger cut from Sony's project. Sony were furious and launched the new technology anyway - it was called the Sony Playstation instead of the Nintendo Playstation. Sony subsequently went on to bury the Nintendo 64 and it hasn't been something the company have bounced back from.

But they're still making mistakes! This is a company that simply refuses to come into the 21st century. Literally nobody at Nintendo has heard of the internet. It's like witnessing a car crash in slow-motion. And now the Youtube disaster whereby they're denying themselves free publicity by shutting down channels that play their games and locking commentators into closed-shop, fully-fledged Nintendo mouth-pieces and taking a massive cut from their earnings for the privilege.

Apart from the branding nightmare fiasco of the Wii U (was anyone sacked for that?) Nintendo had a golden opportunity handed to them in 2012. Microsoft and Sony's systems were ancient in tech terms and consumers were craving a new piece of hardware. Nintendo could have released a powerful console and drew third party developers and publishers onside and attempted to regain a large market share. What did Nintendo do? Release the Wii U.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this company gone from the hardware world in a few years. They've got a few billion in cash but they'll never be as big as they once were. Good riddance, I say. Incompetence of the highest order.

Just to remind people of the original post, and just how full of wrong it is.

nesf

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Just to remind people of the original post, and just how full of wrong it is.

I don't think anyone agrees with the original post or thread title other than the OP.

nesf

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If you're going to be pedantic, I picked up Metroid Prime Trilogy for a tenner.

Try to compare like with like, rather than digital only titles like Valiant Hearts, which I have on my PS4 as well.

My information was fine, the examples I gave was the biggest exclusive the PS4 had, the rerelease of Last of Us, a phenomenal game, and one of the biggest on the WiiU, and prices from one of the biggest and most popular retailers of games in this country, Argos.
And their prices are the same.

You're not comparing like with like though and this is the core of people's problem. Nintendo games stay expensive way longer than almost all other games (I know some PC niches that are the same but they're very niche and sales suffer badly for the lack of discounting). This is the issue, that they are the same price as a major relatively recent game isn't really here nor there.

Ol' Donie

Wii U? Best joke ever.






Jokes are fun, right?

Retr0gamer

Dayum wrote: »

A question for the Nintendo fans because I'm genuinely interested in hearing opinions here...

My first console was a NES, then I was given a SNES, went out and bought a N64 and will never forget the amount of time I spent on the Gamecube.....

As someone with a big Nintendo background I cannot fathom why they didn't see a golden opportunity in the market back in 2012 and release a powerful kit to take advantage of the thirst for a new console? They could have taken market share from Sony and Microsoft....

Am I missing something? The Wii U was a joke....

Nintendo trounced the opposition in terms of power with the 64 and Gamecube and found themselves losing market share hand over fist until they didn't follow that dead end strategy with the wii and DS and created 2 of the most successful consoles ever.

Also if you can't afford to shell out on Nintendo games while millions of others can that's not the faulty of nintendo... Basically, get a better job. Videogames are entertainment commodities not necessities.

nesf

Actually why on earth are people going about a machine being less or more powerful? My current gaming PC is substantially more powerful than any of the consoles but this is definitely not an argument to not buy a console because the games on them are different. You pick a machine that has the games you want on it, the kinds of games you play will dictate the machine and the "level of power" you need. The Wii U is less powerful sure but if you really like the Wii U games (and there are plenty really good ones) then this really doesn't matter.

johnny_ultimate

nesf wrote: »

The Wii U is less powerful sure but if you really like the Wii U games (and there are plenty really good ones) then this really doesn't matter.

Apparently it does for some

nesf

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Apparently it does for some

Fanboyz 4 life bro.

CiDeRmAn

Its always about the games, never about the hardware, in fact the controller is more important than the hardware, looking back at the Gameboy and how it trounced several more powerful handhelds, the Lynx, Gamegear and NeoGeo Pocket, due to an amazing range of first party and third party software and great controls.
The narrow minded seem to find solace in system specs and stats, like games playing is like supporting a football team based on their strip and stadium, rather than the football games they play.
If a console has just one truely great game to play on it exclusively it's worth owning to have access to it, and thus far it's hard to pick what that exclusive is though on the PS4 Bloodborne might be the one, certainly the WiiU now has an array of choice in that regard.

Anyway, we are going around in circles.
There are those of us certain that Nintendo make good stuff, handhelds that lead the market and a home console that is having trouble finding traction amongst the larger market.
There are those too that seem to be hell bent on maintaining that the companies best days are behind them and seem to be taking a certain pleasure in the idea that they are part of those "in the know" that predict their downfall. I'm not sure why they clap their little hands in delight at such a prospect but be sure that should such an unlikely event come to pass gaming will suffer.

Sofiztikated

Why, exactly, do Nintendo have a death wish?

I'll be the first one to hold my hand up, and say yes, they made a **** of the marketing of the WiiU, but both Sony and Microsoft made some major booboo's with this generation as well.

My WiiU fires along nicely, puts out some beautiful games, games that, mostly, I cannot get anywhere else.

As for Nintendo games being more expensive, for longer? Well, I'd put that down to them being constant sellers, rather than one massive hit when new, then bargain bin for the rest of their life. Would I like to see them cheaper? Yes. Who wouldn't. But I can't blame Nintendo for making a solid product.

I've still seen very little that makes me think "Oh, I should buy a PS4/Xbone," but a couple of years ago, I had to get me a WiiU. Granted, it's seen very little use lately, but that's more down to me not having time to game, rather than the console. My 360 hasn't been on in donkeys!

chopperbyrne

Has anyone got accurate, recent sales figures for all three current gen consoles?

I reckon the Wii U has sold pretty well, just terribly when compared to it's predecessor.

Varik

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Has anyone got accurate, recent sales figures for all three current gen consoles?

I reckon the Wii U has sold pretty well, just terribly when compared to it's predecessor.

How accurate can they be at all, you've also got the whole shipped/sold to consumers.

The numbers that are generally reported.

PS4 20m+
Xbox one 11-12m+
WiiU 9-10m, not much from Nintendo and no report of hitting the 10m.

Azza

Wouldn't it make sense for Nintendo sooner rather than later to release a console with comparable capabilities to the other current gen consoles.

I think the most important thing is that its architecture is similar so that attracts strong third party support. Whether it would be technically superior is irrelevant as long as it has more or less the same third support its rivals enjoy.

It wouldn't stop Nintendo from making the first party exclusives their fans love so much but would also attract a lot of gamers to their hardware that feel a Nintendo console is just not worth it for its first party exclusives alone.

CiDeRmAn

I think its likely that Nintendo's next console is going to take an original tack on the process, namely the combining of both handheld and home formats.
As it is most, if not all, the important features of the WiiU gamepad can be replicated by the 3DS, so it's not a leap to see a home console sold with the touchscreen device which itself can be used to play games on the go.
Likely to be backwards compatible with the WiiU as well, with the handheld console running the 3DS range too.

What is sure is, regardless of what Nintendo do, it'll be interesting.

Tipsy McSwagger

Dayum wrote: »

A question for the Nintendo fans because I'm genuinely interested in hearing opinions here...

My first console was a NES, then I was given a SNES, went out and bought a N64 and will never forget the amount of time I spent on the Gamecube.....

As someone with a big Nintendo background I cannot fathom why they didn't see a golden opportunity in the market back in 2012 and release a powerful kit to take advantage of the thirst for a new console? They could have taken market share from Sony and Microsoft....

Am I missing something? The Wii U was a joke....

Retr0gamer

Azza wrote: »

Wouldn't it make sense for Nintendo sooner rather than later to release a console with comparable capabilities to the other current gen consoles.

I doubt they'll release anything soon and what is next will likely be radically different from the current console hardware race. Announcing a new console so soon after the WiiU will kill consumer confidence and Nintendo don't want to suffer anymore of that. They'll ride the WiiU out just like they did the Gamecube.

CiDeRmAn

A replacement for the 3DS is far more interesting, to me at least, than another high powered console on the market.
Imagine a device with high resolution screens, times two natch, and 3D to boot.
The potential really is there to create something bloody awesome and I'm not sure anyone else has the passion to produce another, seeing as Sony has been the bridesmaid with their last two handhelds.

Hey, new thread idea

"Why does Sony's handheld console department have a death wish?" !!

nesf

Isn't the biggest threat coming from mobile not Sony though for 3DS?

CiDeRmAn

nesf wrote: »

Isn't the biggest threat coming from mobile not Sony though for 3DS?

It used to look that way but persistently good sales of hardware, the 3DS and 3DS:XL, and sales of software seem to suggest otherwise.
There are those who have observed that the 3DS market has contracted somewhat compared to the DS success, but Nintendo are still making pots of cash and the 3DS has been far far more successful than the Vita.
So, overall, I'd say the mobile market for games appears to be simply different from the current 3DS market, with the casual slight games that succeed on handsets and tablets simply not appearing in numbers on the 3DS as they once did on the DS.
The 3DS too, as well as the Vita to be fair, is supplying customers with a range of games that are simply not available on Android or iOS platforms, and differentiate themselves sufficiently from the home console formats too, although Tearaway aside the Vita has struggled with this last objective, delivering instead mini, disappointing versions of PS3/PS4 properties, though less of late tbh.

CiDeRmAn

[sarcasm]Or I could be talking out my fanboy backside! [/sarcasm]

nesf

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

[sarcasm]Or I could be talking out my fanboy backside! [/sarcasm]

No, what I've read in non-gaming press on this has been the gap between the phone acting as a gaming device and a dedicated gaming device is still there for consumers. A huge new market opened up with mobile gaming but it didn't have much impact on the established handheld market due (mainly) to one being designed for the job and the other not (touchscreens suck compared to hardware buttons for timing sensitive game like a Mario game). You'll have a phone anyway, so getting a handheld if you want more than what mobile games offer isn't a big stretch for people because the gap in what's possible is quite big.

If there's a threat to the DS series though it's if someone figures out how to make complex platformers etc work well with a touchscreen or with minimal changes to a phone or tablet. Because people won't carry a separate controller around with them to go with their phone instead of just carrying around the handheld and sparing the phone's battery.

CiDeRmAn

The best of stuff on the 3DS doesn't resemble the best if stuff on handsets tbh.
Monument Valley is gorgeous, utilises the phone screen wonderfully, the use of sound, colour and geometrics is brilliant and, including dlc, costs about a fiver, nothing like it on a Nintendo console of any hue.
But.
Its all over in an hour.
Thankfully I've never met a Ninty game so slight.
Example is Pullblox, tons to do and not expensive at all, and at no point are you asked to pay for more coins or levels.