Why Does Nintendo Have A Death Wish?

Xenji

The people who put in over 200 hours plus playing Xenoblade made up for the casual gamers

Tipsy McSwagger

I think the real question is 'why doesn't Death Wish have a Nintendo'?

Dayum

Xenji wrote: »

Maybe they were not abused by somebody dressed as Wario in the early 90's, otherwise who knows, maybe as it is a great game, plus it only cost me 35 Euro

I've just gone on Steam right now and here's what I found:

Bioshock 1+2+Infinite: The Complete Collection - 10Euro
Crysis : The Complete Collection - 9Euro
Borderlands 1+2 - 11Euro
Mirror's Edge - 3Euro

You see, this is what I'm saying....there's 9 games for you for the price of one Mario game even given your optimistic 35 Euro price point. I could go on for the poor sod that has to pay Nintendo's normal prices....

Thankfully, I'm not alone and the consumer agrees. Wii U is a failure.

CiDeRmAn

da gamer wrote: »

Where can I find these games that are dropping in price?
Also I never claimed Nintendo were doomed. Far from it. I just think they aren't maximizing their potential. And I feel they are greedy in their pricing policy.

We're at cross purposes.
I wasn't referring to you doom saying, and I'm aware that Nintendo games stay at their rrp or close for longer than most.
But that is explained by them not getting wrapped up in annual updates to franchises, instead only releasing one or two of a series in a formats lifespan, hence keeping the price high.
New or sealed items on eBay or Amazon does not mean it was recently produced but rather that the game was made, not sold and sat in a warehouse somewhere before being sold as a batch or shifted piecemeal to another reseller.
Then they sell it, at a premium, to the end user.
If you look at the likes of Zelda Spirit Tracks/Phantom Hourglass, Diddy Kong Racing and others you can see new games being sold at more reasonable prices, but they never really descend to bargain prices, outside of sales and promotions.

Look at it this way.
On the PS3 there were something like ten entries in the Call of Duty series, each new title devaluing the previous game on release.
On the 360, there was something like five Halo games, again devaluing the previous entries on release.

On the Wii there were two unique Zelda games, Twilight Princess being a port.
There were two Metroid titles unique to the format.
Two Mario Galaxy games as well.
A single Pikmin title was released.

This should give an idea of the lifespan of a Nintendo title on one format and the perceived value of that game as a result being more buoyant.

At least that's the way it reads to me.

johnny_ultimate

Dayum wrote: »

But.......why though? Why would anyone pay 220 Euro (optimistic figure by any stretch nevermind Postage and packaging) to buy Mario Kart for 60 Euro? Why? ......why would anyone do that?

You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

CiDeRmAn

Dayum wrote: »

I've just gone on Steam right now and here's what I found:

Bioshock 1+2+Infinite: The Complete Collection - 10Euro
Crysis : The Complete Collection - 9Euro
Borderlands 1+2 - 11Euro
Mirror's Edge - 3Euro

You see, this is what I'm saying....there's 9 games for you for the price of one Mario game even given your optimistic 35 Euro price point. I could go on for the poor sod that has to pay Nintendo's normal prices....

Thankfully, I'm not alone and the consumer agrees. Wii U is a failure.

You're argument wasn't that the WiiU was a commercial failure, but that Nintendo has a death wish, which they don't.
And you're quoting prices of old games, for the PC, on a digital marketplace. Games which were cheap enough to start with.
Give it up Dayum, you've convinced no one.
Nintendo's normal prices for current release are the same as on the other formats.
You have no point.
We aren't allowed use the word Troll anymore.
Pity.

da gamer

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

We're at cross purposes.
I wasn't referring to you doom saying, and I'm aware that Nintendo games stay at their rrp or close for longer than most.
But that is explained by them not getting wrapped up in annual updates to franchises, instead only releasing one or two of a series in a formats lifespan, hence keeping the price high.
New or sealed items on eBay or Amazon does not mean it was recently produced but rather that the game was made, not sold and sat in a warehouse somewhere before being sold as a batch or shifted piecemeal to another reseller.
Then they sell it, at a premium, to the end user.
If you look at the likes of Zelda Spirit Tracks/Phantom Hourglass, Diddy Kong Racing and others you can see new games being sold at more reasonable prices, but they never really descend to bargain prices, outside of sales and promotions.

Look at it this way.
On the PS3 there were something like ten entries in the Call of Duty series, each new title devaluing the previous game on release.
On the 360, there was something like five Halo games, again devaluing the previous entries on release.

On the Wii there were two unique Zelda games, Twilight Princess being a port.
There were two Metroid titles unique to the format.
Two Mario Galaxy games as well.
A single Pikmin title was released.

This should give an idea of the lifespan of a Nintendo title on one format and the perceived value of that game as a result being more buoyant.

At least that's the way it reads to me.

Fair enough, I accept your apology! ðŸ˜႒

CiDeRmAn

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

Premium pack WiiU with Mario Kart 8 or the combo of Mario and Luigi U is going for 275 in Argos right now.
Not bad at all.

Shiny!

Sofiztikated

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Premium pack WiiU with Mario Kart 8 or the combo of Mario and Luigi U is going for 275 in Argos right now.
Not bad at all.

Shiny!

Don't be lying, it's really €70 Billion, with no games.

Sure Nintendo doesn't know how to business.

Generic Dreadhead

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Don't be lying, it's really €70 Billion, with no games.

Sure Nintendo doesn't know how to business.

€75 Billion in Gamestop. Robbing f**kers that they are.

abbir

Shiminay wrote: »

So to consider the Wii a success is, in my humble opinion, only half the truth. Sure it sold tons, but certainly anecdotal evidence suggests that did not result in tons of games sales and hours played.

I'll just quote an earlier post for this

kunst nugget wrote: »

As far as I can tell, more Wii were bought than Xbox360 and PS3 games combined which wouldn't too shabby.

Total Wii Games Sold: 905,270,000
Total XBox 360 Games Sold: 384,000,000
Total PlayStation 3 games sold: 375,300,000

http://www.statisticbrain.com/xbox-statistics/
http://www.statisticbrain.com/playstation-statistics/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii

Just adding this source from Nintendo, since only wikipedia is quoted above
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1412.pdf

Retr0gamer

Third party games didn't sell often on the Wii but Nintendo games almost always sold incredible numbers on the Wii. Not exactly bad for Nintendo.

ThisRegard

Cormac... wrote: »

And while we're on the subject. I made up some flat pack furniture 4 weeks ago, put some books on it I did, shelf was about €35.
Funny thing is about 4 years ago I bought another set of shelves from Argos, again packed-flatly, now this one is slightly different and it's bigger too and it cost about €50. Weird thing is there is books on that shelf too and they are still there.

More importantly, which shelf holds the better books?

Anyway, Dayum is competitively selective of what points he wants to answer, conveniently avoiding any factual ones that destroy his 'argument'.

Adamcp898

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Third party games didn't sell often on the Wii but Nintendo games almost always sold incredible numbers on the Wii. Not exactly bad for Nintendo.

This is the crux of the argument in a nutshell.

The success is of Nintendo consoles is heavily leveraged on the success of it's exclusive, Nintendo made games.

If you are to judge the Wii/Wii U by the standards by which the Playstation/Xbox are marketed then it's a no-brainer to call it a failure as it doesn't even come close to competing with them on the aspect of the "media centre which is the best platform for you to play any game on - oh and we have x, y, and z as exclusive titles as well".

Nintendo's approach is to say "We have a, b, c, d, e, & f as exclusives IP's that we think you want to play and we've put our hardware at a lower price point to do so" and this approach isn't directly comparable to Sony/MS.

To put a finer, more blunt point on it - Nintendo, with this current strategy, would die if it wasn't able to churn out exclusive IP titles. But since it is then it's ticking along fine.

Shiminay

Interesting. I hadn't seen that link with the sales figures (and I really don't care enough about anything Nintendo does to look it up ), thanks for sharing.

Incredible to think that with all these sorts of figures, the vast bulk of people I know would still just consider Nintendo the "also ran" of gaming for the last 15-20 years instead of being an obvious leader in terms of units shipped and financial stability.

Whatever about the internet, Nintendo has absolutely zero idea how to do PR. Never was that more true than when they rolled out the WiiU and huge numbers of people had no idea it was a new console.

Dayum

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

You're argument wasn't that the WiiU was a commercial failure, but that Nintendo has a death wish, which they don't.
And you're quoting prices of old games, for the PC, on a digital marketplace. Games which were cheap enough to start with.
Give it up Dayum, you've convinced no one.
Nintendo's normal prices for current release are the same as on the other formats.
You have no point.
We aren't allowed use the word Troll anymore.
Pity.

Hang on for a second....

There's a huge amount of people in here saying Nintendo don't lower their prices. Isn't Mario 64 an old game? Aren't other Nintendo games that are extortionately expensive also pretty old? Older even than the one's I've listed?!
I am quoting prices for old games alright but I could go and quote old Nintendo games that are three or four times the price.

In any event the fact that they're on the digital marketplace is totally irrelevant when you take into consideration that the Wii U digital download store also has Mario Kart 8 for 59 quid!!!! :eek::eek::eek: Go and search up older titles and you'll see them far more expensive than any of the one's I've listed....

They need to lower their prices.....

Dayum

Adamcp898 wrote: »

This is the crux of the argument in a nutshell.

The success is of Nintendo consoles is heavily leveraged on the success of it's exclusive, Nintendo made games.

If you are to judge the Wii/Wii U by the standards by which the Playstation/Xbox are marketed then it's a no-brainer to call it a failure as it doesn't even come close to competing with them on the aspect of the "media centre which is the best platform for you to play any game on - oh and we have x, y, and z as exclusive titles as well".

Nintendo's approach is to say "We have a, b, c, d, e, & f as exclusives IP's that we think you want to play and we've put our hardware at a lower price point to do so" and this approach isn't directly comparable to Sony/MS.

To put a finer, more blunt point on it - Nintendo, with this current strategy, would die if it wasn't able to churn out exclusive IP titles. But since it is then it's ticking along fine.

The fact is that it's not ticking along just fine. That's the problem and Nintendo are worried.

Their IP's that you claim have so much pull cannot shift consoles anymore. Mario and Zelda are not the powerhouses they once were and Nintendo know it.

The simple fact of the matter is that without third party support in 2015, you simply won't be able to move the kinds of numbers Nintendo need to be moving.

Retr0gamer

Shiminay wrote: »

Whatever about the internet, Nintendo has absolutely zero idea how to do PR. Never was that more true than when they rolled out the WiiU and huge numbers of people had no idea it was a new console.

Oh they definitely know how to do PR and do it extremely well. They just got very lazy with the WiiU and thought that could bottle lightning a second time by repeating the same thing. Well that and the WiiU gamepad still hasn't really shown any potential that other consoles haven't, a real shame because stuff like ZombiU's multiplayer show how amazing a device it can be as a sort of dungeon master controller.

Dayum

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Oh they definitely know how to do PR and do it extremely well. They just got very lazy with the WiiU and thought that could bottle lightning a second time by repeating the same thing. Well that and the WiiU gamepad still hasn't really shown any potential that other consoles haven't, a real shame because stuff like ZombiU's multiplayer show how amazing a device it can be as a sort of dungeon master controller.

As a Nintendo fan Retro here's a quick question for you...

Why is it exactly that Nintendo loyalists are opposed to seeing Mario games ported over onto mobile devices? If it means Nintendo stay in business and can financially keep making the games that appeal to you why is that something you would oppose as a fan?

Corholio

Dayum wrote: »

The fact is that it's not ticking along just fine. That's the problem and Nintendo are worried.

Their IP's that you claim have so much pull cannot shift consoles anymore. Mario and Zelda are not the powerhouses they once were and Nintendo know it.

The simple fact of the matter is that without third party support in 2015, you simply won't be able to move the kinds of numbers Nintendo need to be moving.

Not powerhouses in what way? Just in financial terms? Because that's not certainly not true in actual game terms, you know.... what they actually are. In terms of sales, Mario Kart increased Wii U sales by 666% and almost half of all Wii U owners have a copy. It's also selling at a rate faster than the biggest selling Mario Kart game in history (Mario Kart Wii). Twilight Princess is the best selling Zelda game of all time. Definitely still are powerhouses in all respects.

If console shifters are games like Call of Duty etc then I'm glad Nintendo don't go down that route. It may sacrifice numbers but in quality terms it's on top of it's game. You do realise that almost every Nintendo fan would love to have more third party support and it's always been a criticism of Nintendo in that regard.

Nintendo 'fanboys' or 'loyalists' or whatever silly term is used for people who enjoy their games are actually the people who would be most critical of Nintendo, and they have had a lot of deserved criticisms over the last 3-4 years. But all this death wish stuff and end of Nintendo is simply nonsense really, it just sounds good as a thread title or opening argument but in substance is severely lacking.

Dayum

Corholio wrote: »

Not powerhouses in what way? Just in financial terms? Because that's not certainly not true in actual game terms, you know.... what they actually are. In terms of sales, Mario Kart increased Wii U sales by 666% and almost half of all Wii U owners have a copy. It's also selling at a rate faster than the biggest selling Mario Kart game in history (Mario Kart Wii). Twilight Princess is the best selling Zelda game of all time. Definitely still are powerhouses in all respects.

If console shifters are games like Call of Duty etc then I'm glad Nintendo don't go down that route. It may sacrifice numbers but in quality terms it's on top of it's game.You do realise that almost every Nintendo fan would love to have more third party support and it's always been a criticism of Nintendo in that regard.

Nintendo 'fanboys' or 'loyalists' or whatever silly term is used for people who enjoy their games are actually the people who would be most critical of Nintendo, and they have had a lot of deserved criticisms over the last 3-4 years. But all this death wish stuff and end of Nintendo is simply nonsense really, it just sounds good as a thread title or opening argument but in substance is severely lacking.

You're obviously no businessman.

Retr0gamer

Dayum wrote: »

As a Nintendo fan Retro here's a quick question for you...

Why is it exactly that Nintendo loyalists are opposed to seeing Mario games ported over onto mobile devices? If it means Nintendo stay in business and can financially keep making the games that appeal to you why is that something you would oppose as a fan?

I'm not against it, it's just a stupid move if they do port them to mobile devices. When you make a game for a mobile device you make it based around the interface. On a mobile device, games that require a gamepad will not work with the touch screen which would lessen the appeal of the game.

Secondly, Nintendo don't need to port their games to mobile devices to stay in business and financially make the games they always made, they are financially sound at the moment, even more so than Microsoft's games division and a very shaky Sony.

Also what happens when a company starts to dedicate resources to mobile? They take resources away from console games and then console games get gradually eroded and they end up out of the console games industry. I'm not being dramatic here, just look at what is happening to Konami and what happened over the last few years to them. Once they were a company whose brand name on a box almost certainly meant a high quality game. After the next Metal Gear game Konami will be no more after losing the last bit of talent they had left. Videogames as a whole is a worse place without Konami. Videogames without Nintendo will be even worse. Also see Sega post Dreamcast.

Also I'm not a Nintendo fan, I just like good games and Nintendo so happen to be the best at churning those out at the moment.

Corholio

Dayum wrote: »

You're obviously no businessman.

Are you a game player or a financial analyst?

Not having Call of Duty and it's ilk is way down the list of reasons why the Wii U got off to such a slow start.

Retr0gamer

Dayum wrote: »

You're obviously no businessman.

And you're obviously noy a financial analyst.

chopperbyrne

Shiminay wrote: »

Whatever about the internet, Nintendo has absolutely zero idea how to do PR. Never was that more true than when they rolled out the WiiU and huge numbers of people had no idea it was a new console.

This is their biggest problem.

It's been out for two years now and still most people think it's just a different model of the Wii.

You can't blame them either given the lack of clear advertising and the history Nintendo has with remodeling it's hardware.

GB, GB Pocket, GB Colour
GB Advance, GBA SP, GB Micro
DS, DS Lite, DSi, DSi XL
3DS, 3DS XL, 2DS (Now New 3DS and New 3DS XL)

When I went to but one a few months ago, my wife couldn't understand why I was buying a second Wii.

Dayum

Sofiztikated

Dayum wrote: »

You're obviously no businessman.

Not everything is about speed selling. Brand quality and consistency is also very important.

I know that the next Mario Kart, on whatever platform it is, is going to be good. If it started selling at a smaller price point, say €25, I'd immediately think "Hmmm, why so cheap?" Perceived luxury, and perceived value.

You keep blabbing on about CoD and what not. CoD Ghosts has, as of Feb 2014, sold 19 million units. Mario Kart 8 has sold 4.8 million units. Which one is sold across multiple platforms (6, if I'm not mistaken) and which is WiiU only? That's hardly shabby, is it?

And as for the Nintendo NX news, it's an announcement that there'll be an announcement next year. As yet, noone knows if it's a new console or handheld. How about we wait and see what it is, before we write Nintendo off, shall we?

(Oh, and I'm not a Nintendo fanboi, the WiiU is the first Nintendo console I've had.)

Dayum

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Not everything is about speed selling. Brand quality and consistency is also very important.

I know that the next Mario Kart, on whatever platform it is, is going to be good. If it started selling at a smaller price point, say €25, I'd immediately think "Hmmm, why so cheap?" Perceived luxury, and perceived value.

You keep blabbing on about CoD and what not. CoD Ghosts has, as of Feb 2014, sold 19 million units. Mario Kart 8 has sold 4.8 million units. Which one is sold across multiple platforms (6, if I'm not mistaken) and which is WiiU only? That's hardly shabby, is it?

And as for the Nintendo NX news, it's an announcement that there'll be an announcement next year. As yet, noone knows if it's a new console or handheld. How about we wait and see what it is, before we write Nintendo off, shall we?

(Oh, and I'm not a Nintendo fanboi, the WiiU is the first Nintendo console I've had.)

Blabbing on about CoD?! I've not even mentioned CoD?! For the record I'd rather eat a shit encrusted hemorrhoid than play a recent Call of Duty.

That's not what I was getting at.

CiDeRmAn

Dayum wrote: »

Blabbing on about CoD?! I've not even mentioned CoD?! For the record I'd rather eat a shit encrusted hemorrhoid than play a recent Call of Duty.

That's not what I was getting at.

You keep comparing content across the PC, Xbox and PS formats to those that are released on the WiiU and 3DS, and the likes of CoD is part of the former lineup in a big way.
No, you haven't banged on about them, but they are a prime example of a range of games that gets cheaper in almost annual increments while Nintendo games maintain value by not following that model.
And when you referenced the high prices of recent releases on Nintendo digital marketplaces you have to see that the other formats have developed a culture of not only releasing unfinished games barely out of beta, a habit Nintendo have not fallen into, but also they lock features up behind paid dlc and widen their income stream away from the rrp and into a continuous exploitation of the player. Nintendo have, so far, avoided this model, the main income stream being the original game and only a couple of key titles on the WiiU actually selling major extra content, Mario Kart 8 and Hyrule Warriors being the only two I can think of.

But, you seem far more interested in finding justifications for your point of view and ignoring debate that suggests you are mistaken, I get the impression the rest of us are wasting our time tbh.

da gamer

Dayum wrote: »

Bioshock 1+2+Infinite: The Complete Collection - 10Euro
Crysis : The Complete Collection - 9Euro
Borderlands 1+2 - 11Euro
Mirror's Edge - 3Euro

You see, this is what I'm saying....there's 9 games for you for the price of one Mario game even given your optimistic 35 Euro price point.

In fairness lads the guy has a point here. They are 9 unbelievable games, some of the best to be released on the last gen. Although I don't believe you can compare digital download prices to physical copies. Imagine get 9 Nintendo games for 33 Euro!?
That's what annoys me about Nintendo, they never surprise or reward their fans. Wouldn't it be great to go to the Nintendo store and even buy half that amount of games on sale for that price? Unfortunately that will never happen as they don't respect the consumer enough.