Can an introvert become an extrovert? My job depends on it.

I'm INTJ too. I'd say every person I currently work closely with is also. I work in academia so that's probably not surprising.

Stheno

Candie wrote: »

I'm INTJ too. I'd say every person I currently work closely with is also. I work in academia so that's probably not surprising.

LOL about 0.8% of women (going on your username) are. I work in a niche area of IT doing consultancy, and spend most of my time drawing people out on their pain points and problems.

Just today I met a client and ended up doing a complete reversal from what I/they thought they wanted and articulating that and getting them on board.

It wasn't an academic exercise, but a very intellectual exercise tailored to their circumstances and I thoroughly enjoyed it and at the end they said they got a huge amount from it.

They commented that they were surprised at how much information I extrapolated and digested in a couple of hours and how much I'd helped them progress from being muddy about what they wanted to do, to formulating a specific approach and timeframe to achieve what they wanted.

I put that down purely to my personality, give me a complex problem and a small bit of time and I'll come up with a solution. I'll never be your best friend in that scenario, but I will be someone who'll be a trusted advisor.

It's not dissimilar to what you are talking about, in my area there is massive ongoing debate about best practice and oversight.

I happily then spent 4 hours driving home with myself, digesting the session and enjoying my own company

Macavity.

I'm INTJ as well, but I don't like to label. The reddit subreddit is total cringe, people trying to be more INTJ than everyone else. :rolleyes:

CM24

I was hoping this thread wouldn't descend into a debate about the definition of an introvert! It seems to be a bit of a grey area. I just couldn't think of any other way to phrase the thread title. I don't know if I'm technically an introvert or not. I enjoy socialising with my school friends who I grew up with. I think my social skills just regressed throughout college. I lived at home throughout the 4 years, studying a broad, impersonal course and barely attended any lectures. Didn't make any new friends and just stuck to my old crew who I felt comfortable with. I also found myself falling into a horrible sleeping pattern where I'd stay up til 3 or 4am every night then be too sleepy to do anything the next day. I just feel really at peace staying up late at night, when all the normal people have gone to bed! Probably not the best thing for your mental health though.



To be honest, my parents spoiled me a bit and never told me to go out and get a part time job or anything. So, by the time I graduated at about 23 years of age, I had basically no work experience. I've thrown myself in at the deep end now though, so it's sink or swim!

Stheno

Macavity. wrote: »

I'm INTJ as well, but I don't like to label. The reddit subreddit is total cringe, people trying to be more INTJ than everyone else. :rolleyes:

I think knowing your personality type and validating it through testing is actually quite valuable.

I know I focus more on my weaknesses as a result and work on them moreso than anything else.

E.g. I don't give a ****e if you have children, I want you to get the job done. I've learned through the years to automatically discount e.g. easter as a time to get work done as people with children tend to take that time off.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

LOL about 0.8% of women (going on your username) are. I work in a niche area of IT doing consultancy, and spend most of my time drawing people out on their pain points and problems.

Just today I met a client and ended up doing a complete reversal from what I/they thought they wanted and articulating that and getting them on board.

It wasn't an academic exercise, but a very intellectual exercise tailored to their circumstances and I thoroughly enjoyed it and at the end they said they got a huge amount from it.

They commented that they were surprised at how much information I extrapolated and digested in a couple of hours and how much I'd helped them progress from being muddy about what they wanted to do, to formulating a specific approach and timeframe to achieve what they wanted.

I put that down purely to my personality, give me a complex problem and a small bit of time and I'll come up with a solution. I'll never be your best friend in that scenario, but I will be someone who'll be a trusted advisor.

It's not dissimilar to what you are talking about, in my area there is massive ongoing debate about best practice and oversight.

I happily then spent 4 hours driving home with myself, digesting the session and enjoying my own company

I'd say there's a large input of skill and experience at play there too Stheno.:)

Similarly I've had particularly positive feedback on tutorials, using broadly the same skills. I often find small and one-on-one sessions intense and feel quite drained until I've had some peaceful time with myself to recharge. Running and swimming are my major escapes, where nothing intrudes on my thoughts.

I didn't realise the proportion of INTJ women was quite so low!

Stheno

CM24 wrote: »

To be honest, my parents spoiled me a bit and never told me to go out and get a part time job or anything. So, by the time I graduated at about 23 years of age, I had basically no work experience.

Maybe you are just suffering from slightly delayed development then? As you get used to interacting with people you may change your perspective? Figuring out how to interact with people is a challenge full stop, and you're essentially now in a sales role!

Btw sorry for dragging your thread off topic

Stheno

Candie wrote: »

I didn't realise the proportion of INTJ women was quite so low!

I often wonder if it's relevant to the small amount of women in STEM?

On the small groups thing I find the same, easier to deal with larger groups as less time to go into detail

Annasopra

hardCopy wrote: »

I've never been myself but I have heard toastmasters recommended by lots of people.

I've been a member for 8 years. I definitely reccomend it.

bb1234567

Macavity. wrote: »

Your cognitive ability is impaired greatly with all of the depressant type drugs. I could drink a few shots before some event and I'd feel better; more confident, and more able, but that wouldn't be the case.

If it's just for social events like in a bar, clubbing etc.. it's fine, everyone will have been drinking. It won't be seen as unacceptable or odd. Just don't fool yourself into thinking you can get away with it in lectures or at your job. It doesn't work. You forget stuff, and depending on the people involved, it's noticeable.

I did my midterm reviews last week before term ended. I had drank some vodka and orange juice before hand because I was physically unable to present in front of a large number of people while sober. I got an A for my presentation. Do you really think anyone noticed? I remembered everything, I do this quite often so Im perfectly able to function with some alcohol and able to make it inconspicuous.

Stheno

bb1234567 wrote: »

I did my midterm reviews last week before term ended. I had drank some vodka and orange juice before hand because I was physically unable to present in front of a large number of people while sober. I got an A for my presentation. Do you really think anyone noticed? I remembered everything, I do this quite often so Im perfectly able to function with some alcohol and able to make it inconspicuous.

Do you not think that eventually someone wi notice?

bb1234567

Stheno wrote: »

Do you not think that eventually someone wi notice?

No..its so little alcohol that I don't think anyone could notice. Im talking about 75ml of vodka like, drank over the space over an hour before the presentation begins.

Shrap

CM24 wrote: »

I've tried lots of supplements that are supposed to ease anxiety but none of them have done much. To be honest, the thing that's helped me is ecstasy! The first time I tried it really opened up my eyes. I felt what it was like to be ''normal''. I was able to chat away with everyone and actually enjoy it. Even things like dancing started to come naturally to me. I've taken it a couple of times per year now for the last 3 years and find for a couple of weeks after I'm able to socialise a lot more easily. Obviously it's a risky solution though.:)

Hiya CM. I just skimmed through all the comments and found nobody talking about this, so I want to warn you about something. When I was in my late teens/early 20's, I too found amphetamines to be hugely liberating in terms of my social anxiety and it was indeed wonderful to feel so at ease with myself. So attractive was it, that I kept using it.

Unfortunately, the effect of such a regular overdose of the brain chemical dopamine (and serotonin too I think) which is responsible for the feeling of well-being, is to retrain your natural uptake of the chemical to a point where if once you were naturally feeling happy and your neurotranmitters were producing a normal amount of the chemical, now your neuroreceptors (which take up the chemical) are trained to respond only to extremely and unnaturally high doses.

Over time with taking e's or other amphetamines, unfortunately you will become less able to achieve any feeling of well-being naturally and will possibly bring on clinical depression, because the neuroreceptors only now respond to large doses, not normal doses. This is how people get a dependency, as I did. Took me 10 years to recover from it.

Can I suggest that this amazing feeling of being comfortable with yourself (that you get from e's) is completely possible without the drug? It is now for me. At one point during my recovery, it was like I determinedly threw a switch in my mind and said to myself "actually, I CAN feel this way without drugs, because this IS me. This is how I WANT to be, and so this is what I AM." At the same time, I realised that I had been very concerned about how I had been coming across to people and what they thought of me. The real liberation came with deciding I couldn't care less what people thought - that this is who I am, like it or lump it. That it's ok if not everybody likes me. That it's ok if I "mess up" in talking to people. That I'm ok by me, so screw everybody else. The most liberating thing I could have done for myself, and without the aid of drugs.

Although, I will say that if it hadn't been for the drugs showing me how I could feel, maybe I'd have never got here! So they had some benefit, as you have noticed too. The trick for you now mate, is to try going it alone and say "fcuk the begrudgers". You are fine, and you are you just the way you are and you can be exactly how you want to be, overcoming the anxiety without the drugs - it's much better than endangering your mental health, potentially for 10 years. Best of luck

Ps. Oh, and BTW, I'm exactly the extrovert now that I was on drugs! A far cry from the shrinking violet of my teens and young adulthood!

take everything

Stheno wrote: »

Some of the most famous people in the world today are classed as introvert.

Google INTJ famous people, they span a large range of specialities

And I do think you are limiting what you are saying in terms of social experience, as an introvert, I've years of experience as a volunteer, have played team sports, lead teams, lead initiatives and am now part of a startup business that requires me to contribute.

Introversion is more about focussing on what you rather than the great unwashed think, and trusting that, rather than being a social cripple as so many think.

This is a hugely interesting point for me.
If I am genuinely honest with myself I have more ability than literally anyone I know. And I really mean that.
But the whole introvert thing really corrodes my life (if I let I suppose).

But because I am introverted, I feel there is this constant projection on me of others' insecurities and I find that absolutely exhausting.

That thing in your post about making time for your own thoughts (and not obsessing about others' thoughts about your introversion, say). I think that's what you're getting at. Correct me if i'm wrong.

But I do worry that because i'm quite introverted, that the great unwashed (as you say) will win the battle of projection.

CM24

Shrap wrote: »

Unfortunately, the effect of such a regular overdose of the brain chemical dopamine (and serotonin too I think) which is responsible for the feeling of well-being, is to retrain your natural uptake of the chemical to a point where if once you were naturally feeling happy and your neurotranmitters were producing a normal amount of the chemical, now your neuroreceptors (which take up the chemical) are trained to respond only to extremely and unnaturally high doses.

Thanks for posting and the advice is appreciated. Can I just ask, how often did you take the drug? I've done quite a bit of reading on it, mainly on the MDMA SubReddit. They recommend no more than 1 dose every 3 months, at the very least. I definitely don't do more than this. I'd really only save them for special occasions like festivals. I'm very wary of giving myself some sort of long term depression.

I reckon I could stop taking them now and be content. Some of my friends have become wayy too reliant on them. Like, taking them most weekends. That's just reckless.

Good to hear you recovered anyway. I think I'm on the right track now myself. Every day I'm finding myself a little more at ease at the job. Gave a new member his complimentary free PT session there today and he tipped me $20 after, so he must have been happy with it! Feels good!:)

descheness

I would say just set small goals for yourself each day. Branching out and talking to one person a day, then two, etc. The more interaction and practice you have, the easier and more comfortable it will become!

Shrap

CM24 wrote: »

I'm very wary of giving myself some sort of long term depression.

I reckon I could stop taking them now and be content. Some of my friends have become wayy too reliant on them. Like, taking them most weekends. That's just reckless.

Good to hear you recovered anyway. I think I'm on the right track now myself. Every day I'm finding myself a little more at ease at the job. Gave a new member his complimentary free PT session there today and he tipped me $20 after, so he must have been happy with it! Feels good!:)

Excellent! Bank that feeling and remember how you climbed out of feeling a bit low about yourself.

And yes, I started out using only for occasions and festivals and ended up most weekends over about 2 years. This increased (speed actually, not e) to midweek use in the second year due to the development of a serious dependency. I'm very glad people are much better educated about the risks these days, even researching the dangers before going ahead. Very encouraging and it's a very good thing to be wary of the long-term effects.

Gavin_Sweeney

CM24, would you mind if I asked you some questions on your internship with Flyefit (I looked up Flyefit internship on boards and you were the one who came up)? My brother was looking into doing the same thing and it would be great to hear your opinions on it. To be honest I am a little dubious on its merits as my brother is qualified and has experience and I think having to do an unpaid internship for what could be up to six months is somewhat exploitive but what the hell do I know? Do you think it's worth while? I have heard that the company does not actually play employees but lets them PT on their premises if they do classes. Do people actually make money off of this? I would be worried my brother would not be assertive enough to solicit clients -- he is somewhat of an introvert.

Any info you could give would be appreciated.

CM24

Sure. I'll just PM you instead of keeping this thread going.

conorh91

I may have given this example before but I know a woman who has a medical conniption which causes feelings of serious anxiety when speaking in public. It's not simply a case of nerves, it's a genuinely disabling anxiety disorder.

She almost had to sacrifice her career (high pressure job; involves speaking in public) because of her condition, and tried therapy, hypnosis, some sort of group therapy thing (?) and so on, to no avail. Eventually she found a doctor who took one look at her and prescribed some anti-anxiety drugs and that was that. It worked a treat.

I know it's popular to eschew drugs for the treatment of psychological problems, but I say if it works, fcuk it. At least something to consider….