Atheist getting married to a Catholic, need help on selecting prayers for ceremony

J0hnick

Hi,

I'm getting married before the end of the year, I'm an Atheist and my fiance is a cultural catholic (goes to mass at weddings, funerals, christenings and maybe Xmas but that's about it). We have been together for years, she's fine with my Atheism but has wanted to get married in her local church all her life, so Ive agreed to it. We just got registered, priest is a lovely guy who seems pretty liberal and not all fire and brimstone (told us we didnt have to do the pre marriage course so was nice).

Im having some trouble selecting the prayers, readings and psalms for the ceremony. I realize Im not going to get through the whole ceremony without mentioning God, but Id like to keep it to the absolute minimum, and have the day to be as much about us and as little about him as possible. None of the songs Ive chosen are religious and my fiance likes them all, Ive even picked some selected verses from the Song of Solomon/ Song of Songs as it appears to be the best out of a bad bunch when it comes to readings from the Bible were God usually gets all the thanks.

I was wondering if anyone else had any tips or was in a similar situation ?, thanks in advance

Tombo2001

J0hnick wrote: »

Hi,

I'm getting married before the end of the year, I'm an Atheist and my fiance is a cultural catholic (goes to mass at weddings, funerals, christenings and maybe Xmas but that's about it). We have been together for years, she's fine with my Atheism but has wanted to get married in her local church all her life, so Ive agreed to it. We just got registered, priest is a lovely guy who seems pretty liberal and not all fire and brimstone (told us we didnt have to do the pre marriage course so was nice).

Im having some trouble selecting the prayers, readings and psalms for the ceremony. I realize Im not going to get through the whole ceremony without mentioning God, but Id like to keep it to the absolute minimum, and have the day to be as much about us and as little about him as possible. None of the songs Ive chosen are religious and my fiance likes them all, Ive even picked some selected verses from the Song of Solomon/ Song of Songs as it appears to be the best out of a bad bunch when it comes to readings from the Bible were God usually gets all the thanks.

I was wondering if anyone else had any tips or was in a similar situation ?, thanks in advance

I like that one that is from the Byrds song.....there is a time for this, a time for that......(sorry that's a bit vague)....

EDIT: Here you go, you should check it out....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn!_Turn!_Turn!

Put it on your wedding playlist also.....nice symmetry!! :-)

J0hnick

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I like that one that is from the Byrds song.....there is a time for this, a time for that......(sorry that's a bit vague)....

EDIT: Here you go, you should check it out....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn!_Turn!_Turn!

Put it on your wedding playlist also.....nice symmetry!! :-)

Thanks, that's Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 , lyrics are almost identical so I can use that

Need a few more though

lazygal

Can the priest marrying you not advise something suitable?

Ravenid

J0hnick wrote: »

Thanks, that's Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 , lyrics are almost identical so I can use that

Need a few more though

That's from the King James Bible.

Wouldn't go down well at a Catholic wedding :P

J0hnick

lazygal wrote: »

Can the priest marrying you not advise something suitable?

Haven't told him I'm an Atheist, I'm 99% sure he wouldn't care and could probably help, but I don't want to risk jinxing anything.

J0hnick

Ravenid wrote: »

Wouldn't go down well at a Catholic wedding :P

Oops! :P , oh well.

Edit: "Ecclesiastes is a book of the Hebrew Bible. It is universally accepted across all Jewish and Christian biblical canons, though the order of placement differs."

You sure I cant use it ?, I might ask the priest but I wont be seeing him for a while.

Tombo2001

lazygal wrote: »

Can the priest marrying you not advise something suitable?

Funny thing is....

I remember when we got married the priest gave us a list of prayers to choose from.....

I think he got from the start that I was atheist but he never quizzed me on it.

Anyway, the list he gave me.....it was almost like "and in section B we have extracts from scripture with no references to God or Jesus or any religious figures.... just saying....if that's your thing....."

J0hnick

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Funny thing is....

I remember when we got married the priest gave us a list of prayers to choose from.....

I think he got from the start that I was atheist but he never quizzed me on it.

Anyway, the list he gave me.....it was almost like "and in section B we have extracts from scripture with no references to God or Jesus or any religious figures.... just saying....if that's your thing....."

Lol, I'm pretty sure he knows or at least has a strong suspicion, just hasnt said it to me.

Don't suppose you still have that list lying around ? :pac:

Hotblack Desiato

I would advise don't do it!

But definitely don't do it unless you have the ground rules all discussed and agreed beforehand.
Because if you're not careful, this will only be the first concession to make to irrational religious belief -
Next will be getting the kids baptised
Kids into religious schools
Kids taken to church (optional :pac: )
Holy communion, confirmation

and before you know it you've done the whole cultural catholic nine yards.

Your viewpoint on the whole god business is at least as deserving of respect as that of your spouse (and in-laws) and they should appreciate that.
In practice however it always seems to be the case that the less religious spouse is always expected to yield to the more religious spouse (or, rather, the mother in law) and any questioning of this is seen as unreasonable. A marriage is about compromise not capitulation so make sure you start as you mean to go on.

That's not to say that marriages between committed believers and non-believers can't work, they can. It takes work but every marriage takes work.

Good luck.

Shrap

Do they all have to be from the bible? Can't you find some poems or readings that better reflect your vows to each other and run them past the priest? I would have thought you could have a mix, no?

Not G.R

As far as I know you can get married in a church by a priest without the whole mass part. That should suit you both, no?

redfacedbear

Ravenid wrote: »

That's from the King James Bible.

Wouldn't go down well at a Catholic wedding :P

I'm fairly sure I had the Byrds song one as one of my (rcc wedding) readings. It must be in their version too?

Cen taurus

J0hnick wrote: »

I realize Im not going to get through the whole ceremony without mentioning God, but Id like to keep it to the absolute minimum, and have the day to be as much about us and as little about him as possible.

You do realise it's a mass ?

Maybe a humanist service might be more your thing.

Lux23

If you don't believe in it, just pick the readings that are the most pleasing to you? As in, the imagery is pretty or you admire the sentiment if not the actual belief.

efb

The love is kind love is Never boastful one

mirrorwall14

Confirm your music with the priest if you are using secular music, some priests/parish won't allow all secular during the ceremony though I think everywhere allows it during the signing of the register as mass is over. There is some lovely church music out there with minimal mentions of God or instrumental music is allowed. Some songs tread a middle ground too e.g. The Prayer which doesn't actually mention God but has lovely sentiment

kylith

The book of Ruth has some beautiful bits about family and loyalty and, iirc, very little god at all.

If it were me, I have to be honest, I'd be sneaking in readings that like one about yer wan thirsting after her well-hung lovers.

Knasher

My sister got married recently to somebody from an non English speaking country, so most of the wedding was in his native language. But the one reading they did in English (and insisted was included in the wedding) was Ephesians 5:22, the one where they say that the wife has to obey her husband. Then a little bit later they did a rendition of the reading in song form, just in case she didn't take it seriously the first time.

So that's my recommendation. All the Irish people over for the wedding seemed to find it terribly funny.

pinkypinky

Cen taurus wrote: »

You do realise it's a mass ?

Maybe a humanist service might be more your thing.

Actually, the service doesn't have to include a Eucharist at all. Your priest can advise you on it.

Friends who were a mixed atheist and Catholic marriage didn't have a mass part because they felt it would divisive to get married and then one of them take communion and not the other. There was lots of singing, prayers, readings, a blessing, the normal vows, etc, and the signing of the register.

robindch

Ezekiel 23:20 - For she doted upon their lovers, whose members are as those of donkeys, and whose issue is as that of horses.

Hotblack Desiato

Genesis 19:30-38King James Version (KJV)

30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

J0hnick

efb wrote: »

The love is kind love is Never boastful one

Yup, have that one already ;-)

Neyite

pinkypinky wrote: »

Actually, the service doesn't have to include a Eucharist at all. Your priest can advise you on it.

Friends who were a mixed atheist and Catholic marriage didn't have a mass part because they felt it would divisive to get married and then one of them take communion and not the other. There was lots of singing, prayers, readings, a blessing, the normal vows, etc, and the signing of the register.

Yep. All you actually need is the Marriage Rite. Throwing in a long mass is a relatively new development, presumably down to people wanting to get their money's worth and not a requirement to get married.

A couple of generations ago, a couple would go down early in the morning, and either before or after morning mass, have the Marriage Rite, then go home for the breakfast, all legally married.

recedite

Neyite wrote: »

A couple of generations ago, a couple would go down early in the morning, and either before or after morning mass, have the Marriage Rite, then go home for the breakfast, all legally married.

I don't think that's what they want though. They want the full religious wedding with the white dress, churchy music, and a genuine fully qualified priest guy performing the ceremony.
Just no God stuff.

Hotblack Desiato

According to the Humanist Association of Ireland one-third of weddings now are non-religious. I have to wonder how many of the other two-thirds are for show, at the insistence of the mother in law, or because of the nice church...

Eugene Norman

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I would advise don't do it!

But definitely don't do it unless you have the ground rules all discussed and agreed beforehand.
Because if you're not careful, this will only be the first concession to make to irrational religious belief -
Next will be getting the kids baptised
Kids into religious schools
Kids taken to church (optional :pac: )
Holy communion, confirmation

and before you know it you've done the whole cultural catholic nine yards.

Your viewpoint on the whole god business is at least as deserving of respect as that of your spouse (and in-laws) and they should appreciate that.
In practice however it always seems to be the case that the less religious spouse is always expected to yield to the more religious spouse (or, rather, the mother in law) and any questioning of this is seen as unreasonable. A marriage is about compromise not capitulation so make sure you start as you mean to go on.

That's not to say that marriages between committed believers and non-believers can't work, they can. It takes work but every marriage takes work.

Good luck.

Always trust A&A to get a less holier than thou answer. The wife is a cultural Catholic not a committed believer and he isn't asking about school. Just what non religious songs to play.

OP -- you can't go wrong with classical instrumentals. Upsets nobody. Pachabel is very common in weddings.

lazygal

I've no sympathy for the "keep the peace" brigade. If they can't have the guts to have the wedding they want they deserve to have all the parents interference they can get. All this "the mother in law.would be gutted" and "my father wouldn't speak to us and threatened not to come" crap is beyond pathetic for adults to be indulging. Don't get me started on the ones who go on about wanting father so and so to marry them because they made their confirmation there years back. They generally pick a bog standard hotel two hours drive away.

LeinsterDub

Why do you care. It's the not even the equivalent of wanting to pick the right film about Santa for a five year olds birthday at least there are good and bad Santa films .

It's all made up nonsense that no one will care about 4 seconds after the church bit is done with anyway.
Pick a psalm the says God nonstop or the one that talks about the easter bunny nonstop tis all the same.

Eugene Norman

lazygal wrote: »

I've no sympathy for the "keep the peace" brigade. If they can't have the guts to have the wedding they want they deserve to have all the parents interference they can get. All this "the mother in law.would be gutted" and "my father wouldn't speak to us and threatened not to come" crap is beyond pathetic for adults to be indulging. Don't get me started on the ones who go on about wanting father so and so to marry them because they made their confirmation there years back. They generally pick a bog standard hotel two hours drive away.

The wife to be, a cultural Catholic, wants to get married in her local church. There is no more information in the OP.

Hotblack Desiato

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Always trust A&A to get a less holier than thou answer. The wife is a cultural Catholic not a committed believer and he isn't asking about school. Just what non religious songs to play.

The OP thanked my post. What's your issue with it, exactly? I explained how caving into pressure for religious ceremony initially creates a precedent that the non-believer will cave in when kids come along.

'Less holier than thou answer' LOL. what do you expect here?

Don't step onto a rugby pitch and complain the ball ain't round.

robindch

recedite wrote: »

They want the full religious wedding with the white dress, churchy music, and a genuine fully qualified priest guy performing the ceremony. Just no God stuff.

I attended the church wedding of two friends a few years back at a church near Dublin city center. Neither were Irish and at least one of the two is a committed atheist. But the priest couldn't have been more accommodating and in terms of incitement to belief, the wedding ceremony was far more like one of those fake Japanese pseudo-christian weddings than something that David Quinn would approve of.

Certainly, the two groups of non-natives were bemused by proceedings, as they listened to readings in their two mutually-incomprehensible native languages, randomly sitting down, standing up, kneeling, shaking hands, queuing up to eat the biscuits, and being generally instructed, by either the priest, slowly and painfully, to do things in a language that very few of them actually spoke, or by the only Irish guy there who, not being familiar with vocabulary in one of the languages, mistranslated "kneel down" as "uh, go stand on a knife".

recedite

robindch wrote: »

weddings

But Mr Kelly argues that the ceremony is not about religion, but about image.
"I give a good performance. I use an Apache wedding prayer in my ceremony. It works very well, although I had to take out the part about the bear god in the sky," he said.
"If people are crying by the end of the wedding, I think I have done a good job."

Brilliant!

Hotblack Desiato

Shame they didn't go for Elvis-in-Vegas style weddings instead.

Hilarious that there is a much larger proportion of pseudo-christian weddings in Japan than there is in the so-called 'christian countries'.

Brian Shanahan

Neyite wrote: »

A couple of generations ago, a couple would go down early in the morning, and either before or after morning mass, have the Marriage Rite, then go home for the breakfast, all legally married.

Hence why the main meal after the wedding is still called the Wedding Breakfast.

lazygal

It used to be required by law to have a wedding ceremony before a certain time in England. This changed in mid Victorian Times but the wedding breakfast was just that until then. The couple would've been fasting before taking communion.

Hotblack Desiato

It would also help to ensure that they weren't drunk

J0hnick

Is there a website that shows what parts of the mass can or can't be changed (or even left out) ?, I'm getting a lot of conflicting info from different sources :-/

recedite

Round these parts, we tend to advise leaving out the entire mass.

J0hnick

recedite wrote: »

Round these parts, we tend to advise leaving out the entire mass.

Lol!, We also tend to know more about holy writ then most believers, hence why I posted here first

robindch

J0hnick wrote: »

Is there a website that shows what parts of the mass can or can't be changed (or even left out) ?

Excellent question and I have absolutely no idea of the answer - though I'm sure it'll suggest a history of mistrust, paranoia and power politics within the Vatican walls.