A treatise on Mick Wallace

K-9

I presume the book value is the figures the banks originally had them at, at least I hope so anyway. If its what NAMA paid for them that's a joke, this was an international portfolio.

Anyway, Govt. say there is no need for an inquiry. Expect one in a weeks time then going on previous similar statements.

alan partridge aha

I think Mick will poll circa 6000-7000 1st preference votes. This is a fair bit short of a quota and I don't know where he'll pick up transfers. My prediction is 1FF 1FG 1Lab 1SF? and a dogfight for that last seat with Mick in the running.

This is assuming he'll run of course.

Take2Sean

Muahahaha wrote: »

As I already said to another poster on this thread-



What have you ever done for the Irish economy Take2Sean? Have you created more jobs than Mick Wallace has?

Oh take a joke....

Dob74

CramCycle wrote:

I overheard a person talking about a crime they committed last week, I didn't bother reporting it though because the Gardai should know that it was committed.

7 million of taxpayers money goes into an Isle of Man account. Since it is public already the Gardai may as well investigate. Our do you think the legal system is only for big time crooks. like those who don't pay there TV linence.

CramCycle

Dob74 wrote: »

7 million of taxpayers money goes into an Isle of Man account. Since it is public already the Gardai may as well investigate. Our do you think the legal system is only for big time crooks. like those who don't pay there TV linence.

I was being facetious in case that was not terribly clear.

My point was if a person has details relating to a crime they should report it, the Gardai are not psychics and investigations are presumably easier with as much info as possible at their disposable.

I am not entirely sure what your point was?

Muahahaha

Looks like this story is moving up a gear in the North with the announcement by the PSNI that they are calling in the National Crime Agency from London to investigate. Elaine Byrne has also complained to the FBI about US investment firm Cerbrus and the £7m found in an Isle of Man account.

Meanwhile south of the border Noonan and Kenny hide behind the Comptroller and Auditor General whilst the PSNI acknowledge the truth of Wallace's claims and get on with having a proper inquiry.

kidneyfan

Will the serious fraud office be called in by the pSNI

I really don't see the problem with Mick Wallace's Dail statement.

I think it was very responsible of him to omit naming the individual(s) and political party concerned. The transactions have such a political character that the accusations should be transparent from the outset.

At least now a legitimate investigation can proceed with some degree of public scrutiny.

NAMA is such a secretive organisation, and its affairs are so critical to the Irish economy, that If some journalist uncovered details of a police investigation years from now, the State or NI authorities would probably be forced to revisit it at great expense anyway. Such is the level of suspicion regarding NAMA management and corruption. Lets face it, Irish politics and property development have never had an ethically virtuous relationship.

CramCycle

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think it was very responsible of him to omit naming the individual(s) and political party concerned. The transactions have such a political character that the accusations should be transparent from the outset.

I agree with this bit, it's the bit about giving no information over to the Gardai or authorities in general that made it seem like political grandstanding rather than a desire to actually do the right thing.

Were the PSNI opening an investigation into this regardless of whether Micks statement was made or not?

Dyr

CramCycle wrote: »

I agree with this bit, it's the bit about giving no information over to the Gardai or authorities in general that made it seem like political grandstanding rather than a desire to actually do the right thing.

Were the PSNI opening an investigation into this regardless of whether Micks statement was made or not?

I think Wallace has good reasons not to have confidence in the gardai when it comes to policing their patrons

CramCycle

Bambi wrote: »

I think Wallace has good reasons not to have confidence in the gardai when it comes to policing their patrons

What about the PSNI? why not go to them if his faith in the AGS is not good enough, would revenue and their investigations division have any point here? what about the Seanad to ask the questions?

I am not saying the AGS are beyond reproach but if he has evidence or a whistleblower, surely there must be someone he can trust with it, failing that, plenty of journalists who would love to stick their fingers in there I am sure.

Muahahaha

I'm not sure if Wallace ever knew for certain who exactly the politician was but he knew the story of the £7m lying in an off shore account to be true. I get the feeling his Dail statement was to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons and see how they react. It was the reaction of the lawyers that really set this story running, immediately we knew there was truth to the £7m allegation.

Interestingly former Vice President of the US Dan Quayle is a director of the private equity company Cerebrus. If the FBI launch an investigation under the US laws broken here things could get even more sticky yet.

K-9

Quayle met Peter Robinson and others a couple of months before Cerebrus bought the loan book, Cerebrus say it was an official meeting but it seems a secret to Martin McGuinness and more importantly, Stormont.

http://www.irishnews.com/opinion/leadingarticle/2015/07/09/news/secret-meeting-must-be-explained-176280/

Also of importance is what seems to be a sudden u-turn in DUP policy on the speed of NAMA sales of assets:

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/nama-scandal-dup-deny-major-robinson-u-turn-months-before-cerberus-deal-1-6836489

The timing of the turn around in policy and the secret meeting a few months later seems unfortunate coinincidences!

Muahahaha

Yeah its looking like Robinson has questions to answer for sure. From yesterdays events in the Dail it seems like Michael Noonan knew a lot more about the Project Eagle deal than he had let on before. This is beginning to smell like the IBRC affair did before Noonan eventually capitulated and established an inquiry

nice_guy80

Like him or loathe him, Wallace certainly is making a few people squirm

Claims in the Dail today about a bribe to a NAMA official
NAMA refers it to the Gardai
Enda cannot comment as the Gardai are involved

Except he could, because of Dail privilege

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Except he could, because of Dail privilege

He's entitled to comment on anything, from corruption in Nama, to the price of biscuits for cabinet meetings, to his neighbour's extra-marital affairs. It doesn't mean he ought to. We are entitled to hope that he will exercise the functions of his office appropriately, now that Mick Wallace has (quite appropriately) brought these allegations to light.

The last few weeks have shown how incredibly important parliamentary privilege is, but it has a limit. Now that MW has set-out the allegations, an investigation should pass to the appropriate authorities. The Taoiseach should stay out of it, and of course he will.

Someone should remind Nama of that. A Nama spokesman gave a public warning that Mick Wallace may be committing a criminal offence by not going straight to the police with information on corruption. I think it would be far more appropriate if Nama just assist the Gardai with their job, and quit behaving like a gung-ho little policeman themselves.

Scipio_Hib

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Like him or loathe him, Wallace certainly is making a few people squirm

Claims in the Dail today about a bribe to a NAMA official
NAMA refers it to the Gardai
Enda cannot comment as the Gardai are involved

Except he could, because of Dail privilege

True, but Wallace could also have named the official under privilege too, could he not?

nice_guy80

Scipio_Hib wrote: »

True, but Wallace could also have named the official under privilege too, could he not?

He was sensible enough not to

Muahahaha

More allegations from Wallace on NAMA, now it is that there was €15,000 in cash paid by a developer to exit NAMA and a NAMA Portfolio Manager took the bribe.
As usual Enda does his headmaster talking down to Wallace, telling him to bring the matter to Gardai, PAC. Still no sign of an inquiry while the stench of corruption and bribery gets even stronger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOnAuraUPCE

nice_guy80

Oh look, Dail summer recess.
Enda and co will hope people will have forgotten

joe swanson

I would like to know when the inquiry is starting into the apparent lack of action by the authorities into micks tax affairs and the huge loss to the tax payer. How much has he paid back?

I see also he is supporting Michael mckevitt (rira) in his bid for freedom. Makes me sick

expectationlost

joe swanson wrote: »

I would like to know when the inquiry is starting into the apparent lack of action by the authorities into micks tax affairs and the huge loss to the tax payer. How much has he paid back?

he is paying it afaik

I see also he is supporting Michael mckevitt (rira) in his bid for freedom. Makes me sick

as is the minister for justice apparently? as he was freed

lanos

mick is ruffling feathers and his seat is safe.

lanos

joe swanson wrote: »

I would like to know when the inquiry is starting into the apparent lack of action by the authorities into micks tax affairs and the huge loss to the tax payer. How much has he paid back?

The enquiry ?????
has it been setup and terms of reference decided.
we're just waiting for a start date are we ?

Huge loss, how many million
or is it thousand ?
please provide sources

joe swanson wrote: »

I see also he is supporting Michael mckevitt (rira) in his bid for freedom. Makes me sick

it probably doesn't really.
any old stick will do to beat poor mick

joe swanson

lanos wrote: »

The enquiry ?????
has it been setup and terms of reference decided.
we're just waiting for a start date are we ?

Huge loss, how many million
or is it thousand ?
please provide sources




it probably doesn't really.
any old stick will do to beat poor mick

Really, looking for a link in relation to his tax affairs. Google is great. Here's one tho...

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-mick-wallace-fobbed-off-probe-over-tax-deal-28955551.html

lanos

joe swanson wrote: »

I would like to know when the inquiry is starting into the apparent lack of action by the authorities into micks tax affairs and the huge loss to the tax payer. How much has he paid back?

joe swanson wrote: »

Really, looking for a link in relation to his tax affairs. Google is great. Here's one tho...

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-how-mick-wallace-fobbed-off-probe-over-tax-deal-28955551.html

Thanks for the link
the VAT issue was surely an Accounting issue.
The VAT irregularity must be blamed on the Accounting firm that handles mick's affairs
and there is no huge loss
apparently he has settled with revenue and received a tax clearance cert

and how much he has paid back is between him and Revenue
unless you want to suggest that he has high powered influence in Revenue
i doubt it.
.
now we should put this silly episode to bed and concentrate on the bigger isssues
that Mick has raised, such as:
Garda whistleblowers
AGS corruption
NAMA corruption, bribery, embezzelment etc
.
.

K-9

Depends on if he uses an Accountancy firm to do so. By my recollection that wasn't an issue at the time and he admitted he omitted the sales for purely cash flow reasons, there was no mistake here!

Muahahaha

Mick knew well what he was doing using money earmarked for Revenue as cashflow for his business. Many people in business (including myself) have found themselves in sticky situations with cash flow during the recession. In many cases it is a matter of do I let the company fold and lay off staff or do I 'borrow' this money from Revenue in the hope that the business picks up and we turn it around. Any accountant will tell you its a daft thing to do but we're only human and plenty of businessmen did the exact same as Wallace during the bust, some got away with it, some didn't. Its not something I'd hang him for myself and I reckon anyone who has ever ran their own business and has been under the stress of financial strain will appreciate the unenviable position Wallace found himself in.

The main reason why certain posters on here bleat on about his tax affairs 4 years after the event is because they don't agree with his politics. They don't like the way he attacked and won against the incompetence of Garda management, he exposed the MoJ and the Minister and party hacks here hate him for it. So they use the tax affairs (which are long since sorted with Revenue btw) as a stick to beat him with because it's all they've got. You won't see the same people congratulating Wallace on exposing more corruption in NAMA. We're only at the tip of the iceberg and Wallace has already exposed a £7m bribe in the north and another €30,000 bribe here down south. If Wallace goes on to expose €100m worth of corruption and bribery in NAMA you'll still have people on here slagging him about his tax affairs.

K-9

You have a point but still, the guy went onto to be a TD, and if the indo article is correct, was hardly forthcoming to a Dail committee.

There's a middle ground on these things.

CramCycle

Muahahaha wrote: »

Mick knew well what he was doing using money earmarked for Revenue as cashflow for his business. Many people in business (including myself) have found themselves in sticky situations with cash flow during the recession. In many cases it is a matter of do I let the company fold and lay off staff or do I 'borrow' this money from Revenue in the hope that the business picks up and we turn it around. Any accountant will tell you its a daft thing to do but we're only human and plenty of businessmen did the exact same as Wallace during the bust, some got away with it, some didn't. Its not something I'd hang him for myself and I reckon anyone who has ever ran their own business and has been under the stress of financial strain will appreciate the unenviable position Wallace found himself in.

The main reason why certain posters on here bleat on about his tax affairs 4 years after the event is because they don't agree with his politics. They don't like the way he attacked and won against the incompetence of Garda management, he exposed the MoJ and the Minister and party hacks here hate him for it. So they use the tax affairs (which are long since sorted with Revenue btw) as a stick to beat him with because it's all they've got. You won't see the same people congratulating Wallace on exposing more corruption in NAMA. We're only at the tip of the iceberg and Wallace has already exposed a £7m bribe in the north and another €30,000 bribe here down south. If Wallace goes on to expose €100m worth of corruption and bribery in NAMA you'll still have people on here slagging him about his tax affairs.

I wouldn't hang him for that at all, I am sure many have done it and got away with it, I don't like it but I understand it.

Its the pension fund issues I would hang him for, did he ever pay that back?

As for his NAMA expose, fair play if that what got the ball rolling but I am confused as to why he would not give over info to the PSNI if he did not trust the Gardai? Hats off to him if its his comments in the dail that got it started.

As for party hacks, I was a green for years but as I became more and more involved, I became more and more uninterested in supporting them as they often had no idea what they were on about as a party with a clear lack of understanding of how the real world worked. This said I would still vote for Eamonn as he understood reality better than most of the party masses.

FG/F, I still can't tell the difference bar one is in power when the country is ****ed and one is in power when the country is doing well, that is the only marginal difference, if one of them broke that cycle for a few years, I suspect the difference would be the same and they would just swap roles

Muahahaha

K-9 wrote: »

You have a point but still, the guy went onto to be a TD, and if the indo article is correct, was hardly forthcoming to a Dail committee.

There's a middle ground on these things.

Yeah I agree and I certainly wouldn't defend him on the pensions aspect of his financial collapse. But IMO some of the posting about him borders on vitriol.

At the end of the day I believe his heart is in the right place. Perhaps his politics isn't for everyone but not having alternative voices like Wallace, Daly, Murphy, Donnelly in the Dail would mean that our democracy would be a lot poorer

Muahahaha

CramCycle wrote: »

Its the pension fund issues I would hang him for, did he ever pay that back?

Yeah same here, that was bad form. I'm unsure if he is paying it back, I'd be keen to know though

joe swanson

lanos wrote: »

Thanks for the link
the VAT issue was surely an Accounting issue.
The VAT irregularity must be blamed on the Accounting firm that handles mick's affairs
and there is no huge loss
apparently he has settled with revenue and received a tax clearance cert

and how much he has paid back is between him and Revenue
unless you want to suggest that he has high powered influence in Revenue
i doubt it.
.
now we should put this silly episode to bed and concentrate on the bigger isssues
that Mick has raised, such as:
Garda whistleblowers
AGS corruption
NAMA corruption, bribery, embezzelment etc
.
.

Typical response. I want my voice to be heard loudest and lets ignore the wrong I do. The man apparently wont pay back what he owes the tax payer until hes over 100 years old. Manages to go to all the big football tournaments etc.

If it was ordinary Joe soap who had done it, it would be a criminal trial. Why hasn't revenue/guards fully investigated this. Surely, justice should seen to be done , particularly when its our political representatives. Didn't want to cooperate either.

Someone who has taken so much surely should be excluded from participation in Dail Eireann?

jimmycrackcorm

So Mick has reported his information on the Nama official taking a bribe to dispose of a portfolio to the Gardai.

I'm sceptical if anything comes of this. I'm thinking is a case that someone started a rumor that will ultimately prove unfounded and that Mick just thought he could be like Katherine Murphy.

mynamejeff

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah same here, that was bad form. I'm unsure if he is paying it back, I'd be keen to know though

the pensions is one issue

he many many contractors that he left in the lurch for work done and materials provided is another matter altogether dont think they are ever gona get paid back .... or them or any of thier family or frineds vote for wallace again

expectationlost

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

So Mick has reported his information on the Nama official taking a bribe to dispose of a portfolio to the Gardai.

I'm sceptical if anything comes of this. I'm thinking is a case that someone started a rumor that will ultimately prove unfounded and that Mick just thought he could be like Katherine Murphy.

Nama €30k 'bribe' man in earlier Garda probe http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/nama-30k-bribe-man-in-earlier-garda-probe-31387165.html



some smoke

expectationlost

CramCycle wrote: »

I wouldn't hang him for that at all, I am sure many have done it and got away with it, I don't like it but I understand it.

Its the pension fund issues I would hang him for, did he ever pay that back?

He also insists that the widely held, and reported, view that he withheld pension entitlements from some of his employees, is simply false. “We paid every penny due of the pensions. I was fined for late payment and this was due to a row over whether we owed money for people who had left the company”.

http://villagemagazine.ie/index.php/2015/07/undaunted-austerity-fighter/

joe swanson

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wallace-pays-just-23k-of-21m-tax-bill-but-it-should-be-cleared-by-2058-221582.html


Mick will be 102 before he pays back the taxpayer. Unbelievable. Plenty of world cups before that.

lanos

joe swanson wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/wallace-pays-just-23k-of-21m-tax-bill-but-it-should-be-cleared-by-2058-221582.html


Mick will be 102 before he pays back the taxpayer. Unbelievable. Plenty of world cups before that.

so he's paying it back
fair play to him

and when his business is back trading profitably he will pay back fully.

I wonder how long Sean Quinn will take to pay back IBRC
how about never ? - (I realise hes not a TD but loads of people still lick his arse)

well done mick on a very good effort
after terrible bad luck in business

Willfarman

Fine Gael run a plonker of a candididate in Gorey who was expecting his daddy's seat. He was since made a senator. Fine Gael have been throwing everything bar the kitchen sink at mick Wallace since to try and oust him hoping for a by election to get their chosen man into his his plum job.

Imo Wallace has played a blinder. Tho it wouldn't kill him to to look more presentable.

CramCycle

lanos wrote: »

so he's paying it back
fair play to him

Indeed, better than getting nothing, although I suspect his deal was more to do with the fact that revenue would rather something than nothing, which is the right choice for them and Mick will pay as little as he can get away with with as the other option forces him to lose his seat and salary.

I wonder how long Sean Quinn will take to pay back IBRC
how about never ? - (I realise hes not a TD but loads of people still lick his arse)

I seen the rallies for him in my local communities, it made myself and several friends (who worked for him) cry at the mob mentality. They should scrap jobsbridge and the like and have the likes of Sean providing free labour over the course of his deserved jail time providing free labour to struggling businesses.

well done mick on a very good effort
after terrible bad luck in business

It wasn't bad luck, it was poorly run, you would be a fool to think otherwise.

joe swanson

lanos wrote: »

so he's paying it back
fair play to him

and when his business is back trading profitably he will pay back fully.

I wonder how long Sean Quinn will take to pay back IBRC
how about never ? - (I realise hes not a TD but loads of people still lick his arse)

well done mick on a very good effort
after terrible bad luck in business

Bad luck? It was deceit. Deceit of his employees and the taxpayer. Any other country and he would be inside. People have short memories.

He was one of the people who drove this country into the ground as a developer. Was useless at it, owes me and you and every other tax payer, and people elect him. The mind boggles...

Muahahaha

Peter Robinson has now threatened Mick Wallace with legal action over revealing him as the politician who was set to gain from a £7m bribe involving the sale of NAMA assets. But it seems like Wallace was correct in his allegation as it has also been uttered under parliamentary privilege. I wonder what this might mean up North if we have the First Minister caught with his fingers in the till of the southern State.

Dob74

Muahahaha wrote:

Peter Robinson has now threatened Mick Wallace with legal action over revealing him as the politician who was set to gain from a £7m bribe involving the sale of NAMA assets. But it seems like Wallace was correct in his allegation as it has also been uttered under parliamentary privilege. I wonder what this might mean up North if we have the First Minister caught with his fingers in the till of the southern State.

Conservative politicians both sides of the boarder United in me Feinism. We may have a united country yet

Muahahaha

Wallace has now gone further than the initial claim about a £7m bribe saying that it was only for "openers". He has alleged today under Dail privledge that before NAMA did the deal with Cerbrus they went around property developers touting their properties back for 50 pence in the pound. Naturally the developers jumped at the chance to buy the properties back at half price. Cerebrus had paid 27 pence in the pound from NAMA and quickly split and sold the portfolio back to developers for 50p in the pound, representing a quick profit for Cerbrus off the backs of the Irish taxpayer. In order to get on this deal developers had to pay bribes of £45m and this was duly done.

So Wallace has now uncovered £52m worth of bribery within NAMA and is calling for an independent inquiry into how it conducts its business. Joan Burton is following the line that there is nothing to see here, move along now. The First Minister of Northern Ireland, Peter robinson, is connected to this bribery as well as senior business figuers in the north. This whole thing stinks to high hell and it is the Irish taxpayer who is funding the cost of all these brown envelopes.

Just to make matters worse Cerbrus are currently involved purchasing another NAMA loan portfolio here in the south. Our government are refusing to put a stop to this deal despite all the evidence we have of bribery in the north. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Good loser

If they were consultants would it still be bribery?

One Man's meat is another Man's poison?

Jim2007

Muahahaha wrote: »

Our government are refusing to put a stop to this deal despite all the evidence we have of bribery in the north. You couldn't make this stuff up.

If Mike Wallace has discovered all this, then where is his evidence??? If he had this evidence all he need do is bring it to the Garda or newspaper if he wishes to avoid the Garda and that would bring this little game to an end. But he has not and the fact that he has not should tell you that he is just another political blowing hot air trying to make himself relevant!

Dob74

Jim2007 wrote:

If Mike Wallace has discovered all this, then where is his evidence??? If he had this evidence all he need do is bring it to the Garda or newspaper if he wishes to avoid the Garda and that would bring this little game to an end. But he has not and the fact that he has not should tell you that he is just another political blowing hot air trying to make himself relevant!

Unfortunately the legal scheme prohibits him from saying anything thing in public. What newspaper would run it the indo? Newstalk and rte are part of the establishment and would probably turn the wistle blower in.
There has been no proper explanation as to why nama is in such a rush to sale it's portfolio so fast. Wasn't the whole idea of Nama to hold onto the property til the prices recovered. Now that the taxpayer can actually recoup more money it's selling to foreign investor's.
Fg are as bad as FF

rain_soaked

Jim2007 wrote: »

If Mike Wallace has discovered all this, then where is his evidence??? If he had this evidence all he need do is bring it to the Garda or newspaper if he wishes to avoid the Garda and that would bring this little game to an end. But he has not and the fact that he has not should tell you that he is just another political blowing hot air trying to make himself relevant!

the guards have a grudge against wallace for his hand in exposing the penalty points scandal , he knows he would get little reply were he to approach them with this information

yes , guards are that petty

mynamejeff

rain_soaked wrote: »

the guards have a grudge against wallace for his hand in exposing the penalty points scandal , he knows he would get little reply were he to approach them with this information

yes , guards are that petty

considering the penalty points issue had nothing what so ever to do with the garda or sgt or even inspector rank and was brought to the surface by a garda and sgt why do you think the gardai in general would be at all concerned about wallace?

its the usual from politicians like him , loads of nonsense allegations and veiled comments to the press without producing any actual facts or evidence in an effort to make themselves relevant in the face of an upcoming election which should see them thrown out on his tax dodging ass .

unfortunately Irish voters really are that stupid