Muck from Sites on Public Road causing accidents

thewintermute

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone had any info on how to follow this up.

My wife hit clods of earth dragged onto a public road from a a site during the week. Straight stretch, 80 kph zone, the car spun into a stone pier and bounced back onto the road.
I feel it's pretty obvious where the muck came from as it's still there today. The site is unsecured and not signposted. Large tracts of land being cleared by machinery, exiting straight onto a public road with no measures in place to stop the muck being trailed up and down the road.

At first I was relieved that my family were still alive, though badly injured. It took over an hour to cut my wife from the vehicle and my infant son was also trapped in the car. Right now I'm angry that someone thinks so little of other road users that they feel it's okay to put them at risk by being so careless.
I'm pretty sure there must be some legislation to prevent contractors leaving roads in such a state, but I haven't been able to find it.

Any thoughts or advice welcome.

Thanks.

pippip

First off, hope the family make a good recovery.

Second, you need to talk to a solicitor. This may be a case of general endangerment or negligence rather than a traffic law.

Bpmull

HSA.ie will have all the construction related legislation on it but yes there does definitely have to be signage saying construction site ahead etc etc and the roads should be cleaned. It would be no harm to get pictures of the way it is now with no signs and muck etc. I suppose a solicitor would know the best course of action. Hope all your family make a speedy recovery back to full health I can only imagine it was a very traumatic event to be trapped like that.

AhHaor

Go back to the site asap with photos to document and get in touch with solicitor

Special Circumstances

http://www.thejournal.ie/cowpat-gate-cork-farmers-told-to-clean-up-after-their-cattle-232575-Sep2011/

"Cork County Council has sent letters to a few farmers in the Mitchelstown area, telling them that failing to keep roadways free of waste and mud contravenes the 1993 Roads Act."
(looks like section 76 is the one you want (5) The owner or occupier of any land adjacent to a public road shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that—


(a) water is not prevented, obstructed or impeded from draining into, onto, under, through or to his land from a public road,


(b) water, soil or other material is prevented from flowing or falling onto a public road from his land.)


I can see why they should, and I can see how it would be dangerous to bikers and cyclists, but I'm going to risk the accusations of "high horsiness" here...

If the road is not safe to drive at 80kph (with or without a child on board) .... slow to a speed where it does become safe to drive in the prevailing conditions / current road surface. Ugh, this isn't going to be popular is it.

I wish a speedy recovery to your wife and child of course, and I don't mean to imply "she deserved it for driving too fast" but I don't think the blame lies 100% with the machinery operator.

pippip

^ There is a difference between driving for the conditions and a sudden unmarked/unsigned factor instantly changing the conditions.

Cookie_Monster

pippip wrote: »

^ There is a difference between driving for the conditions and a sudden unmarked/unsigned factor instantly changing the conditions.

OP states it was a straight stretch of road so I fail to see how she could not have seen the muck / obstruction in time to slow or adjust course to avoid.

Driving to the conditions includes being able to stop in the distance you can actually see ahead of you at all times.

Special Circumstances

It could be argued back and forth all day here, but let's not. Won't help the OP get the info he was looking for. Up to the insurance companies (and a good solicitor?) really to hammer out where the balance of the blame lies.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/cow-dung-claim-costs-fbd-1m-26660197.html

roverrules

Did the Garda traffic incident officers take down the detail, photos etc I know they do for fatal incidents would have thought they'd do the same for serious injury accidents to. Certainly you would need to chase it up with the Garda and probably Health & Safety

thewintermute

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

OP states it was a straight stretch of road so I fail to see how she could not have seen the muck / obstruction in time to slow or adjust course to avoid.

Driving to the conditions includes being able to stop in the distance you can actually see ahead of you at all times.

This is correct, I stated speed limit, not speed being driven at.

Uncle Ben

Legislation under the roads act definitely applies here. When I worked with Galway Co Co we were constantly serving notices on farmers and builders etc for dragging muck onto roads. During the boom those Volvo dump trucks even needed licences issued by LA just to be on the road.

As another poster said get plenty of photos, and I mean lots especially those emanating from the site. The developer has a duty of care, but remember the LA also has a responsibility as a road authority to keep it as safe as is feasibly possible. Report it to gardai and LA and get solicitor.

Crumbs868

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

OP states it was a straight stretch of road so I fail to see how she could not have seen the muck / obstruction in time to slow or adjust course to avoid.

Driving to the conditions includes being able to stop in the distance you can actually see ahead of you at all times.

Typical boards motors reply of driving to conditions where everyone else is the perfect driver obviously like yourself

Using your theory how are people able to claim pot hole damage from the council?

How are people able to claim for a load falling of a lorry(Google nolan transport)

Companies liable for dropping diesel on the road

Etc

Etc x100

How would you like it if you had to come on here and ask for help in relation to a loved one haven been involved in an rta due to spilled diesel by a negligent person and some smart arse replies with you should drive to conditions

Chemical Byrne

They may be have broken the law in not keeping the road clear of debris but Im not sure that would make them liable.

First rule of the road is expect the unexpected. If there was that much muck on the road she should have noticed it and slowed down. This is especially true if on a straight stretch.

If it was around a blind corner and it was that she could not stop/slow down in time to avoid skidding on the muck well then she was taking the corner too fast to be able to react to an unexpected obstacle on the road. You should always drive at a speed which allows you to safely stop within the clear distance you can see ahead of you. I often see people pelting it around blind turns at rates where there wouldn't be a hope of stopping if something was in the road at the exit of the turn, pedestrian, broke down vehicle, fallen tree etc etc

Uncle Ben

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

They may be have broken the law in not keeping the road clear of debris but Im not sure that would make them liable.

First rule of the road is expect the unexpected. If there was that much muck on the road she should have noticed it and slowed down. This is especially true if on a straight stretch.

If it was around a blind corner and it was that she could not stop/slow down in time to avoid skidding on the muck well then she was taking the corner too fast to be able to react to an unexpected obstacle on the road. You should always drive at a speed which allows you to safely stop within the clear distance you can see ahead of you. I often see people pelting it around blind turns at rates where there wouldn't be a hope of stopping if something was in the road at the exit of the turn, pedestrian, broke down vehicle, fallen tree etc etc

I ain't a solicitor but I don't believe there is a law that says expect the unexpected. It is a good guideline, but I think that's all it is,however there is legislation that prohibits the deposit of materials and other on the public road.. If it happened to me I'd be going after the landowners.

Chemical Byrne

Well I know what you mean.

Well I'm sure whoever it was has broken some law with regard to leaving muck on the road. But I'm not so sure that would make them automatically liable for the accident.

Special Circumstances

Uncle Ben wrote: »

I ain't a solicitor but I don't believe there is a law that says expect the unexpected.

It's the natural law of self-preservation, sub-section "common sense when driving" :P but yeah, common sense has no legal standing that I'm aware of.

Uncle Ben

Special Circumstances wrote: »

It's the natural law of self-preservation, sub-section "common sense when driving" :P but yeah, common sense has no legal standing that I'm aware of.

The same common sense that the developer should have applied but according to the op, obviously didn't.

Chemical Byrne

Special Circumstances wrote: »

It's the natural law of self-preservation, sub-section "common sense when driving" :P but yeah, common sense has no legal standing that I'm aware of.

Well it should. Like women........

Special Circumstances

Uncle Ben wrote: »

The same common sense that the developer should have applied but according to the op, obviously didn't.

Common sense self preservation would appear to have served the driver of the machinery perfectly well in this instance - I don't see any mention of the machinery driver having crashed?

I think you may have been thinking of the very weakly observed guideline of "don't be a d1ck".

ChippingSodbury

Hi,
We were in a serious accident a few years back (on Fri 13th believe it or not!!!) and it's not a pleasant experience. Ensure that you document absolutely everything because it's amazing how quickly you can forget details especially when there is so much going on and so much stress involved. We had a particularly nasty experience with the other insurance company (the guys in the wrong) who were extremely aggressive and fishing for information: my advice would be to not engage in any form with anybody other than your own insurance company and your solicitor if you have one.

Hopefully, all will be well and everything will be back to normal asap. It's not an experience I'd wish on my worst enemy.

Uncle Ben

Hey op when this is resolved will you post back. Would be interested to see how this plays out.