Electric shower setup

wingnut

Moved into a house and noticed there is no isolation switch for the shower in the en suite. Now I know they are more of a maintenance rather than safety feature but I wanted to check the set up in the fusebox as this is the important one.

Could those in the know advise on the attached. There is a master RCD in the fuse box. There are mcbs marked shower and immersion. There is a fuse marked shower too.

Should the shower have its own RCD or rcbo?

2011

wingnut wrote: »

Should the shower have its own RCD or rcbo?

Yes.

wingnut

2011 wrote: »

Yes.

can I straight swap the rcd in or would I be better getting an electrician to have a look? What is the Hager es470? Its not a switch? Is the setup as is dangerous? Would it best not to use power shower.

2011

wingnut wrote: »

can I straight swap the rcd in or would I be better getting an electrician to have a look?

Only an electrician should do this work.

What is the Hager es470? Its not a switch?

It is a contactor, I am guessing that you have storage heating.

Is the setup as is dangerous?

It would seem that however wired this installation took a few shortcuts.
In my opinion it would be best to get the entire installation checked.

Would it best not to use power shower.

The chances are it is OK, but why take a chance?
Get it checked.

I don't see any type of main switch fuse or MCB on this board either, perhaps it is out of shot?

salmocab

Does the contactor say showers underneath it? Do you have more than one power shower?

2011

salmocab wrote: »

Does the contactor say showers underneath it? Do you have more than one power shower?

Good catch.
It appears to say shower alright.

Ignore my remark about storage heaters in the last post.

salmocab

Might be more gear on the bottom row of that board as that looks like its just the top row, there should definitely be more control gear than a 40 amp mcb and a contactor to work 2 showers and it shouldn't be on the shared RCD for the sockets. A picture of the next row might sort it out but I wouldn't be optimistic that the setup is correct.

17larsson

Electric showers sharing an RCD used to be acceptable thought didn't it? Or did it always require an rcbo?

2011

17larsson wrote: »

Electric showers sharing an RCD used to be acceptable thought didn't it?

Correct.

wingnut

Thanks guys. You are correct there is another line in the box. There is one power shower at the moment but there is wiring for a second:


Full board:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/k4aGd0GbN0ZtKhdcRNg3faMb9wvB4z93jzgxosbr-hyCpxLEWXbrM3zap7zCYIZdQo9xx1SX=w1342-h533

wingnut

2011 wrote: »

Correct.

Does it look like the RCD is for the entire house or just for the showers? Either way I'm getting from this that the safest option is to get an electrician in and get an rcbo installed.

salmocab

I can't open the picture of the second row but from what I can see on the top then the RCD is doing both sockets and the shower, if I was you I would get an electrician and get the shower put on its own RCBO and get him to check if you had the second shower installed would you need to get a priority/non priority switch fitted. It also really should have an isolation switch nearby the shower so have him look into that. Its probably safe as it is but as you have recently moved in you don't know how it was wired and could be money well spent.

wingnut

Thanks Salmocab, def. going to get its own RCBO on the board, not too bothered about the isolation switch having read up it dosen't seem to be as essential.

Her is the pic on imgur:

http://i.imgur.com/1rT4fdf.jpg

hufpc8w3adnk65

An mcb on a shower isn't acceptable. It needs too be an Rcbo. Also generally these are fed from the circuit before the rcd and not after it. As you have said an isolation switch isnt present so an idea might be when you have the Sparks around ask him too fit a switch perhaps under the fuse box. It wouldn't take major works too do so. Also have him check the contactor marked showers and it really should be an interlink system and I see no way for that contactor too switch currently

2011

MrMac84 wrote: »

As you have said an isolation switch isnt present so an idea might be when you have the Sparks around ask him too fit a switch perhaps under the fuse box.

It is best to have an isolation switch local to the unit that it is isolating. If the isolator was under the distribution board it would be just as easy to use the MCB / RCBO.

salmocab wrote: »

and get him to check if you had the second shower installed would you need to get a priority/non priority switch fitted.

I would imagine that the connector is installed for this purpose. Nothing wrong with that if it is installed properly. Best to get everything checked.

It also really should have an isolation switch nearby the shower so have him look into that.

+1

hufpc8w3adnk65

2011 wrote: »

It is best to have an isolation switch local to the unit that it is isolating. If the isolator was under the distribution board it would be just as easy to use the MCB / RCBO.





+1

Of course having it local is the better idea. I'm giving him an idea that won't mean major re-wiring, also assuming his fuse box is at the ceiling like in older installations having the switch under the box means no climbing on chairs or ladders too isolate it!

2011

MrMac84 wrote: »

Of course having it local is the better idea. I'm giving him an idea that won't mean major re-wiring, also assuming his fuse box is at the ceiling like in older installations having the switch under the box means no climbing on chairs or ladders too isolate it!

An isolator for a shower beside the MCB for the same shower is pointless.
It will not comply with the regulations unless it is local to the shower.

hufpc8w3adnk65

2011 wrote: »

An isolator for a shower beside the MCB for the same shower is pointless.
It will not comply with the regulations unless it is local to the shower.

What part of UNDER the board do you not understand? How is it pointless too install the switch at eye level and have it easyily reachable by anyone with out having too use a ladder or chair too stand on and try too figure which trip switch is which?

2011

MrMac84 wrote: »

What part of UNDER the board do you not understand? How is it pointless too install the switch at eye level and have it easyily reachable by anyone with out having too use a ladder or chair too stand on and try too figure which trip switch is which?

I assumed that you meant beside because you said that your intention was to avoid rewiring. An eye level isolator would most likely involve rewiring because shower cables generally go up from a distribution board not down. This means that the existing shower cable would not be long enough to reach your suggested isolator position. If I were doing this I would install a pull cord isolator local to the shower. This would be possible to do without rewiring if a few inches of slack can be found on the shower cable.

Under, over or beside the distribution board is pointless unless it means that the isolator is local to the shower. This is covered in 555.1.2 page 138 of ET101:2008

hufpc8w3adnk65

2011 wrote: »

I assumed that you meant beside because you said that your intention was to avoid rewiring. An eye level isolator would most likely involve rewiring because shower cables generally go up from a distribution board not down. This means that the existing shower cable would not be long enough to reach your suggested isolator position. If I were doing this I would install a pull cord isolator local to the shower. This would be possible to do without rewiring if a few inches of slack can be found on the shower cable.

Under, over or beside the distribution board is pointless unless it means that the isolator is local to the shower. This is covered in 555.1.2 page 138 of ET101:2008

How could you possibly class extending cables at the board as re-wiring but then assume you'll find enough slack on the cable too install a pull cord in a suitable location?? And if you look back you'll see i suggested an electrician install the switch which would be no trouble but instead you want too offer a solution based on you assuming there'll be slack somewhere in the attick.

And again your calling my idea pointless which is actually quite dissmissive AND insulting, Ive already explained how doing this means that in the event of a fault its easy too isolate power going too the shower without needing a step ladder or chair too access the fuse box. This is (more so) an advantage if anyone in the house is disabled,elderly or young who may not be able too climb a step ladder/chair.

2011

MrMac84 wrote: »

How could you possibly class extending cables at the board as re-wiring but then assume you'll find enough slack on the cable too install a pull cord in a suitable location??

I require a few inches, you require a few feet.
I acknowledged that my proposal may not be possible either by using the word "if".

And again your calling my idea pointless

Because it does not comply with the regulations.
Sometimes there is no shortcut.

Bruthal

Fitting an isolator at the DB is pointless. The entire point of having it is gone.