RAW 16-3-15

seandotcomm

dirkmeister wrote: »

Something like this happened with HHH years ago.

It looked like DX had broken up only for them all to return later that night to kick the sh!t out of the face.

Exactly what I was thinking.

If I remember correctly the main event was HHH vs X-Pac and then the face ( Rock maybe ) came out to interfere or help X-Pac win and then Road Dogg came out smirking with a sledgehammer.. always sticks in my mind as being a great angle

A Primal Nut

Great, straight to the point promo by Brock.

The booking of Brock shows that when they need to push someone well (because they are paying so much) they can do it without too much effort. Fair enough, it's Brock Lesnar; but they still do it right.

Moneymaker

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Great, straight to the point promo by Brock.

The booking of Brock shows that when they need to push someone well (because they are paying so much) they can do it without too much effort. Fair enough, it's Brock Lesnar; but they still do it right.

It only took them 2 years.

He was mishandled in 2012 and 2013 imo. Losing to Cena and HHH were both absurd.

A Primal Nut

He won 2 out of 3 matches against HHH. He can't win every match.

Stereomaniac

Sheamus here maybe?

dirkmeister

So Mark Henry throws his hat in the ring for the Battle Royal....I thought that wasn't allowed!!?!?

Stereomaniac

That's what he does! That's not what John Cena does! Mark Henry is the face of the WWE sure!

Lithium93_

Get ready for another promo masterclass from Paul Heyman.

briany

"Ahem. Where were you last week, Roman?"

"...... "

A Primal Nut

Those lads behind Reigns throwing shapes. Vince must be raging they tried to ruin his big promo.

Mr.Nice Guy

Did you see that fella in the crowd behind Reigns, acting the maggot?

connemara man

Reigns came across well,

Paul is the greatest speaker there is but these promos aren't getting people against Brock really which in a way they need to IMO.

please let Reigns turn heel of Brock leaves and align with Paul it'd work really well

Rjd2

connemara man wrote: »

Reigns came across well,

Paul is the greatest speaker there is but these promos aren't getting people against Brock really which in a way they need to IMO.

please let Reigns turn heel of Brock leaves and align with Paul it'd work really well

Agreed

Reigns has came across as likable recently and to be fair he does ooze charisma, but I don't feel the crowd are as behind him as they should be for the dude main eventing Mania.

Brock is awesome, but do the crowd hate him enough at the moment?

Suppose we find out soon enough.

Moneymaker

No one cares about Reigns. NO ONE. Not even Heyman can save this train wreck.

That was one of his better promos and it still bored me to tears.

connemara man

Moneymaker wrote: »

No one cares about Reigns. NO ONE. Not even Heyman can save this train wreck.

That was one of his better promos and it still bored me to tears.

but he's just talking and not controlling the audience so the promos aren't doing anything.

Rollins promo at the top had people booing all the way through (I know a lot of it was cheap heat) but at least that type of reaction can direct the attitudes a small bit

A Primal Nut

I think the idea behind the Brock promo was to show he only cares about money. "What does WrestleMania mean to me? It's just another day I get to beat someone up and get paid for it". Whereas Reigns is trying to live his dream of main eventing WrestleMania and winning the title. Nice idea for a face/heel dynamic but don't think it will work this time. People respect Lesnar as the professional asskicker that he is. Its get him over even more as a badass babyface in people's minds.

connemara man

A Primal Nut wrote: »

I think the idea behind the Brock promo was to show he only cares about money. "What does WrestleMania mean to me? It's just another day I get to beat someone up and get paid for it". Whereas Reigns is trying to live his dream of main eventing WrestleMania and winning the title. Nice idea for a face/heel dynamic but don't think it will work this time. People respect Lesnar as the professional asskicker that he is. Its get him over even more as a badass babyface in people's minds.

yeah so as good as Heyman is promos aren't setting the right tone/dynamic in the fued

Stereomaniac

The tone is just right, in my opinion. I'm trying not to over-analyse the crowd reactions anymore.

mrkiscool2

If you are not loving how the mid-card titles are being treated like a big deal there is something wrong. Really enjoying the Rusev-Cena feud and the scrap for the IC strap!

Mr.Nice Guy

Rollins made to look like a geek by the Authority once again.

A Primal Nut

HHH/Steph still the top two heels in the company...with no pay-off in site.

briany

A Primal Nut wrote: »

HHH/Steph still the top two heels in the company...with no pay-off in site.

The Sting match is the payoff as was the Daniel Bryan arc last year.

seandotcomm

that... was well done

Stereomaniac

Sting & Randy Orton are being interviewed by Michael Cole in the ring on the Network here.

Mr.Nice Guy

The Legend Killer voice in Orton's head: Do it. RKO him. You know you want to.

:pac:

rovert

Outside of Sting a non-event of a show. Wrestlemania build hasn't started for me.

Rjd2

rovert wrote: »

Outside of Sting a non-event of a show. Wrestlemania build hasn't started for me.

Plenty of time, we still have Superstars and Main Event this week.

J. Marston

https://twitter.com/Laufered/status/577635506306994176

God forbid people have some fun at the show.

Rjd2

J. Marston wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Laufered/status/577635506306994176

God forbid people have some fun at the show.

Should have came in Reigns costumes.

We are only getting one side of the story, but that seems very petty and nerdy of the WWE.

Looper007

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

If you are not loving how the mid-card titles are being treated like a big deal there is something wrong. Really enjoying the Rusev-Cena feud and the scrap for the IC strap!

Stop with this elevating the titles stuff, they are only doing this cause they want Cena to overcome those odds and be the first one to beat Rusev , and the IC title cause Vince hates everyone in it cause they got more over then his pet projects. I'm not buying into any of this elevating crap and the fact they have their best in ring worker and most over guy in it as a afterthought goes to show how are building this.

Rjd2

Looper007 wrote: »

and the fact they have their best in ring worker and most over guy in it as a afterthought goes to show how are building this.

And he is playing second fiddle to R Truth doing "comedy".

mrkiscool2

Looper007 wrote: »

Stop with this elevating the titles stuff, they are only doing this cause they want Cena to overcome those odds and be the first one to beat Rusev , and the IC title cause Vince hates everyone in it cause they got more over then his pet projects. I'm not buying into any of this elevating crap and the fact they have their best in ring worker and most over guy in it as a afterthought goes to show how are building this.

Wow, you're a cynical one aren't you? By the way, the IC title has been huge ever since Ziggler one it. They have made it a title to chase again, not just an afterthought. You can think what you want but that's the truth of the matter. Rusev has also brought up the US title by the fact that he is a. undefeated and b. an asshole foreign heel who hates America and is keeping the belt to prove that he is better than the best America can throw at him because Russia is better than America. That's why both titles have been elevated.

Heel, while I do think Cena is going to win at Wrestlemania it's not a certainty. Cena has been doing some amazing work recently in pursuit of the title, taking both it and Rusev seriously. This is the best Cena, the one who is hungry and takes his opponent seriously, not the jokey guy who doesn't care about how much he puts over his opponent. As for the IC title it's actually my favourite thing going into WM. The whole R-Truth thing has been fun and it's great to see guys actually fighting over the strap, showing that is something worth having. It hasn't been an after thought, they've been building to it for weeks now.

You clearly have a chip over your shoulder about Cena and the fact Bryan isn't in the main event. Sure, I can see why. I'm not particularly happy with Reigns vs Brock either (because I think it is going to bomb, no matter how much Heyman puts it over with some great speeches). But you have to get over it! The talent in that ladder match is ridiculous, the only jobber match on the card is the Battle Royal! It's actually quite a good WM card and I do think the IC and US title have been elevated greatly in the run up to WM

LeeJM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Wow, you're a cynical one aren't you? By the way, the IC title has been huge ever since Ziggler one it. They have made it a title to chase again, not just an afterthought. You can think what you want but that's the truth of the matter. Rusev has also brought up the US title by the fact that he is a. undefeated and b. an asshole foreign heel who hates America and is keeping the belt to prove that he is better than the best America can throw at him because Russia is better than America. That's why both titles have been elevated.

Heel, while I do think Cena is going to win at Wrestlemania it's not a certainty. Cena has been doing some amazing work recently in pursuit of the title, taking both it and Rusev seriously. This is the best Cena, the one who is hungry and takes his opponent seriously, not the jokey guy who doesn't care about how much he puts over his opponent. As for the IC title it's actually my favourite thing going into WM. The whole R-Truth thing has been fun and it's great to see guys actually fighting over the strap, showing that is something worth having. It hasn't been an after thought, they've been building to it for weeks now.

You clearly have a chip over your shoulder about Cena and the fact Bryan isn't in the main event. Sure, I can see why. I'm not particularly happy with Reigns vs Brock either (because I think it is going to bomb, no matter how much Heyman puts it over with some great speeches). But you have to get over it! The talent in that ladder match is ridiculous, the only jobber match on the card is the Battle Royal! It's actually quite a good WM card and I do think the IC and US title have been elevated greatly in the run up to WM

Quoted for truth. An honest assessment of WM and the build for once.

Lord TSC

The appearance of Sting had me smiling, and it was great to see him actually physically battle people. Before he showed up though, I was wondering how big a ****ing idiot Orton was, given the "twist" was visible a mile off.

Personally think Cena/Rusev hit a speed bump last week (Cena should NOT have demolished him in the way he did) and this week was spinning it's wheels; you could have skipped this week's segment and still been in the exact same place, plot wise.

Same with the other two big feuds too; Taker/Bray and Heyman/Reigns (I'm not even sure we can call it Lesnar/Reigns at the moment) were entirely missable, which is a horrid thing to be saying two weeks out from Mania, especially given those two feuds have not yet had an actual confrontation between the people about to headline your show.

I think the IC title build is fine, even if I agree with the idea it's simply a match where they've thrown in people Vince doesn't want to push but knows if they aren't on the card, the show will be **** on further. I've been skipping the Divas and Tag build up so can't comment on them.

As Rovert said, it didn't build towards Mania at all. We're at exactly the same place now, plot and character development wise, as we were yesterday....

DM_7

Liked the end to RAW, in isolation its a good tv moment.

I am not sure they have sold Stings reason for going against Triple H enough. The idea that Sting is there to stop Triple H making WCW mistakes is a good one, but they need to make more of the idea that Triple H stopped Sting going to WWE in the past and that perhaps someone else has brought him in behind Trips back. The match should feel more important than it does right now but it is one match that makes sense.

Am glad that they have held off Reigns and Lesner facing off on front of the crowd. The appeal of Brock is waiting to see him get his hands on someone. I like how Reigns has performed since winning the rumble and genuinely feel they are the right people to face off.

The IC title stuff is good but i don't think its the place for Bryan, way too many people involved now. It would be a better place for him if it was him Barrett and maybe Ambrose. The more people added the less important the match looks.

On mania as a whole:

Taker returning for a match is bad for the card imo as it meant someone was going to be at a loose end, Bryan, for no good reason, ends up in that spot.

They could have used a pissed off Rollins to eliminate Bryan at the end of the Rumble to set up Authority v Bryan 2 at mania, create an idea that maybe Reigns is favoured by the authority and add some more intrigue to the main event. But Takers return tied Wyatt up so he couldn't face Orton.

Something like the below would feel bigger (to me), could still get the main event they want. The current undercard doesn't compliment the main event right now as hiding people like Bryan, Ambrose will piss fans off.

Brock v Reigns, Bryan v Rollins, Cena v Rusev, Wyatt v Orton, Sting v Triple H, Barrett v Ziggler v Ambrose (Ladder match)

CSF

Like the majority, I enjoyed the finish to this week's Raw. Those 2 feuds are starting to take shape. Everything else may aswell not be happening though. Rollins and the Sting factor seem to be the only thing keeping the show watchable right now.

Hard to view the IC match as anything other than a relegation for most involved and they haven't made any attempts to change that by keeping it as far detached from the main feuds as possible.

CSF

Also, Rollins is a better talker than Heyman IMO.

Rock Lesnar

CSF wrote: »

Also, Rollins is a better talker than Heyman IMO.

While i agree with your above comments, I have to disagree with this CSF, while Rollins is good, everything Heyman does is gold, when he talks, people listen, he has single handedly brought interest to a Wrestlemania main event that people could care less about and has done so for every other ppv he's been involved with.

CSF

LeeJM wrote: »

Quoted for truth. An honest assessment of WM and the build for once.

I'm with the other guy on this. I don't think the U.S. title has necessarily been elevated by this feud that much at all. Sure, it's 2 upper card guys fighting for it, which might make it feel that way, but the feud just doesn't seem to be that much about the US title at all. Yes we had that one moment where Cena held the hold until Lana agreed to put the title on the line, but largely winning the title has been an afterthought, whereas the Lesnar v Reigns one and the IC feuds are purely based on the respective participants desire to win the belt, possibly with the exception of Daniel Bryan.

I'm inclined to agree with the notion that this IC feud is designed to keep certain people out of the main feud than it is to elevate the belt. The notion of the belt being elevated requires the idea that the status of the belt will rise to the participants level, rather than the status of the participants dropping to the belts level.

We are yet to see that. All Bryan, Ziggler and Ambrose have recently enough been involved in opening and closing of Raws and main event of PPVs. Now they seem to have dropped into the middle of Raw and well down the card of this PPV and the last one for Ambrose. If they're gonna elevate the belt's status in 2015 and have feuds that matter on Raw enough to play a more prominent role then fine, but there's no sign of that happening yet. Very much a relegation of the superstars rather than a promotion of the belt so far.

CSF

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

While i agree with your above comments, I have to disagree with this CSF, while Rollins is good, everything Heyman does is gold, when he talks, people listen, he has single handedly brought interest to a Wrestlemania main event that people could care less about and has done so for every other ppv he's been involved with.

I wouldn't say there is interest in the title feud myself. Heyman is a very good talker but frequently gets cheered in situations where he needs to be getting booed for the good of the feud. Get the face over and all that. I get that it's difficult to get Reigns over but it's something I'd associate with Heyman in general.

Rollins is a master of getting exactly the response he is meant to. When he's the heel, he's gonna get himself booed or chanted at in spite of how much the WWE universe rates him. Kurt Angle kinda skills at that.

Clearly the 2 of them are head and shoulders above the rest but I'd pick Rollins

DM_7

Heyman is out there to play an almost tweener role that plays up to people like us (what he says) and will make fans who don't think about it as much dislike him (how he says it). Thats why he keeps talking th the higher ups, his mic gets cut etc to play up to what peoples perceptions of Vincr and Reigns etc.

He is way ahead of anyone.

Stereomaniac

Paul Heyman is the best talker that WWE has at the moment. If Brock Lesnar didn't have him and was cutting live promos (I thought his pre-recorded interview was pretty good) he wouldn't be taken nearly as seriously. This hope of him siding with Roman Reigns is dumb though.

CSF

DM_7 wrote: »

Heyman is out there to play an almost tweener role that plays up to people like us (what he says) and will make fans who don't think about it as much dislike him (how he says it). Thats why he keeps talking th the higher ups, his mic gets cut etc to play up to what peoples perceptions of Vincr and Reigns etc.

He is way ahead of anyone.

Yeah, it doesn't add to feuds all that much though which is the key IMO. Heyman himself doesn't actually need to be over all that much, and Brock certainly needs no getting over.

I love listening to him speak but in terms of getting feuds and other superstars in the feud over its gotta be Rollins.

Moneymaker

Raw was fine. No real issues with it.

Unfortunately it's WM season. "Fine" won't cut it.

DM_7

CSF wrote: »

Yeah, it doesn't add to feuds all that much though which is the key IMO. Heyman himself doesn't actually need to be over all that much, and Brock certainly needs no getting over.

I love listening to him speak but in terms of getting feuds and other superstars in the feud over its gotta be Rollins.

Heyman is doing what he is asked and playing to differant people. He isn't trying to get an individual over, he is trying to get as many people as possible to watch mania and be intrigued by the main event.

If would be an impossible task to make certain parts of the audience want a Reigns win. Especially when so many are actively against Reigns and what they feel he represents.

Rollins has a much easier task he is only trying to get people to dislike him, he is helped a lot as he is surrounded by people fans really don't like and has a foe in someone who is actually popular in Orton.

rovert

Lord TSC wrote: »

As Rovert said, it didn't build towards Mania at all. We're at exactly the same place now, plot and character development wise, as we were yesterday....

Same show for the last month. Which has been the same show template for the past number of years.

WinnyThePoo

Jesus. Only at the Diva's match at the start. Did Jbl just mention Phil Bardsleys name on Raw. Ha.

CSF

DM_7 wrote: »

Heyman is doing what he is asked and playing to differant people. He isn't trying to get an individual over, he is trying to get as many people as possible to watch mania and be intrigued by the main event.

If would be an impossible task to make certain parts of the audience want a Reigns win. Especially when so many are actively against Reigns and what they feel he represents.

Rollins has a much easier task he is only trying to get people to dislike him, he is helped a lot as he is surrounded by people fans really don't like and has a foe in someone who is actually popular in Orton.

As I said, its more than just the current feuds. I recognise absolutely that getting Reigns over would be an almost impossible task. But I don't buy the notion that Heyman's promos have made the Reigns v Lesnar match more interesting. Instead, they've made me wish they could replace the 20ish minutes the match might get, with 20 minutes listening to him speak about the weather, the economic situation of the European Union, anything, instead.

Rock Lesnar

I think Heyman has boosted interest in the match, Can Reigns beat Lesnar, can he do what Cena and HHH could'nt do, what will Lesnar do or might do after mania.

I think He has also put Reigns over to, bad ass samoan, his family history, using Austin to Sammartino in promo's, the locker room parting when he walk past to.

He does what he does better then anybody, just my opinion

Looper007

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Wow, you're a cynical one aren't you? By the way, the IC title has been huge ever since Ziggler one it. They have made it a title to chase again, not just an afterthought. You can think what you want but that's the truth of the matter. Rusev has also brought up the US title by the fact that he is a. undefeated and b. an asshole foreign heel who hates America and is keeping the belt to prove that he is better than the best America can throw at him because Russia is better than America. That's why both titles have been elevated.

Heel, while I do think Cena is going to win at Wrestlemania it's not a certainty. Cena has been doing some amazing work recently in pursuit of the title, taking both it and Rusev seriously. This is the best Cena, the one who is hungry and takes his opponent seriously, not the jokey guy who doesn't care about how much he puts over his opponent. As for the IC title it's actually my favourite thing going into WM. The whole R-Truth thing has been fun and it's great to see guys actually fighting over the strap, showing that is something worth having. It hasn't been an after thought, they've been building to it for weeks now.

You clearly have a chip over your shoulder about Cena and the fact Bryan isn't in the main event. Sure, I can see why. I'm not particularly happy with Reigns vs Brock either (because I think it is going to bomb, no matter how much Heyman puts it over with some great speeches). But you have to get over it! The talent in that ladder match is ridiculous, the only jobber match on the card is the Battle Royal! It's actually quite a good WM card and I do think the IC and US title have been elevated greatly in the run up to WM

I don't have to get over it, I think it smells bad and I will moan about it before and after the match cause its bad booking. Sorry to bust your bubble.

We both have different opinions on this, pretty much this match has split people down the middle. Some like you think it's going to elevate the titles but others think it's a match (ic title) just to throw people in they don't like to make people think its important and think if they have them going through a few ladders that the crowd won't boo the rest of the show. While the Cena match is just for John boy to overcome those odds once again. Cena has to get those first dibs for beating the pet heel projects.

The talent in IC title match is immense??, R-truth, Cody and when did they become immense. Ambrose Harper and Ziggler jobbed out to every Vince project and lose more then they win. Bryan who's been booked as crap since his return and has been booked as a afterthought in this match on purpose.

you and a few others might buy into it (I disagree I think this WM isn't that great) so I think I stay cynical right now.