RAW 16-3-15

DM_7 · 17-03-2015 2:06pm

Heyman is out there to play an almost tweener role that plays up to people like us (what he says) and will make fans who don't think about it as much dislike him (how he says it). Thats why he keeps talking th the higher ups, his mic gets cut etc to play up to what peoples perceptions of Vincr and Reigns etc.

He is way ahead of anyone.

Stereomaniac · 17-03-2015 2:10pm

Paul Heyman is the best talker that WWE has at the moment. If Brock Lesnar didn't have him and was cutting live promos (I thought his pre-recorded interview was pretty good) he wouldn't be taken nearly as seriously. This hope of him siding with Roman Reigns is dumb though.

CSF · 17-03-2015 2:12pm

DM_7 wrote: »

Heyman is out there to play an almost tweener role that plays up to people like us (what he says) and will make fans who don't think about it as much dislike him (how he says it). Thats why he keeps talking th the higher ups, his mic gets cut etc to play up to what peoples perceptions of Vincr and Reigns etc.

He is way ahead of anyone.

Yeah, it doesn't add to feuds all that much though which is the key IMO. Heyman himself doesn't actually need to be over all that much, and Brock certainly needs no getting over.

I love listening to him speak but in terms of getting feuds and other superstars in the feud over its gotta be Rollins.

Moneymaker · 17-03-2015 2:15pm

Raw was fine. No real issues with it.

Unfortunately it's WM season. "Fine" won't cut it.

DM_7 · 17-03-2015 2:23pm

CSF wrote: »

Yeah, it doesn't add to feuds all that much though which is the key IMO. Heyman himself doesn't actually need to be over all that much, and Brock certainly needs no getting over.

I love listening to him speak but in terms of getting feuds and other superstars in the feud over its gotta be Rollins.

Heyman is doing what he is asked and playing to differant people. He isn't trying to get an individual over, he is trying to get as many people as possible to watch mania and be intrigued by the main event.

If would be an impossible task to make certain parts of the audience want a Reigns win. Especially when so many are actively against Reigns and what they feel he represents.

Rollins has a much easier task he is only trying to get people to dislike him, he is helped a lot as he is surrounded by people fans really don't like and has a foe in someone who is actually popular in Orton.

rovert · 17-03-2015 2:29pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

As Rovert said, it didn't build towards Mania at all. We're at exactly the same place now, plot and character development wise, as we were yesterday....

Same show for the last month. Which has been the same show template for the past number of years.

WinnyThePoo · 17-03-2015 2:29pm

Jesus. Only at the Diva's match at the start. Did Jbl just mention Phil Bardsleys name on Raw. Ha.

CSF · 17-03-2015 2:35pm

DM_7 wrote: »

Heyman is doing what he is asked and playing to differant people. He isn't trying to get an individual over, he is trying to get as many people as possible to watch mania and be intrigued by the main event.

If would be an impossible task to make certain parts of the audience want a Reigns win. Especially when so many are actively against Reigns and what they feel he represents.

Rollins has a much easier task he is only trying to get people to dislike him, he is helped a lot as he is surrounded by people fans really don't like and has a foe in someone who is actually popular in Orton.

As I said, its more than just the current feuds. I recognise absolutely that getting Reigns over would be an almost impossible task. But I don't buy the notion that Heyman's promos have made the Reigns v Lesnar match more interesting. Instead, they've made me wish they could replace the 20ish minutes the match might get, with 20 minutes listening to him speak about the weather, the economic situation of the European Union, anything, instead.

Rock Lesnar · 17-03-2015 2:51pm

I think Heyman has boosted interest in the match, Can Reigns beat Lesnar, can he do what Cena and HHH could'nt do, what will Lesnar do or might do after mania.

I think He has also put Reigns over to, bad ass samoan, his family history, using Austin to Sammartino in promo's, the locker room parting when he walk past to.

He does what he does better then anybody, just my opinion

Looper007 · 17-03-2015 3:01pm

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Wow, you're a cynical one aren't you? By the way, the IC title has been huge ever since Ziggler one it. They have made it a title to chase again, not just an afterthought. You can think what you want but that's the truth of the matter. Rusev has also brought up the US title by the fact that he is a. undefeated and b. an asshole foreign heel who hates America and is keeping the belt to prove that he is better than the best America can throw at him because Russia is better than America. That's why both titles have been elevated.

Heel, while I do think Cena is going to win at Wrestlemania it's not a certainty. Cena has been doing some amazing work recently in pursuit of the title, taking both it and Rusev seriously. This is the best Cena, the one who is hungry and takes his opponent seriously, not the jokey guy who doesn't care about how much he puts over his opponent. As for the IC title it's actually my favourite thing going into WM. The whole R-Truth thing has been fun and it's great to see guys actually fighting over the strap, showing that is something worth having. It hasn't been an after thought, they've been building to it for weeks now.

You clearly have a chip over your shoulder about Cena and the fact Bryan isn't in the main event. Sure, I can see why. I'm not particularly happy with Reigns vs Brock either (because I think it is going to bomb, no matter how much Heyman puts it over with some great speeches). But you have to get over it! The talent in that ladder match is ridiculous, the only jobber match on the card is the Battle Royal! It's actually quite a good WM card and I do think the IC and US title have been elevated greatly in the run up to WM

I don't have to get over it, I think it smells bad and I will moan about it before and after the match cause its bad booking. Sorry to bust your bubble.

We both have different opinions on this, pretty much this match has split people down the middle. Some like you think it's going to elevate the titles but others think it's a match (ic title) just to throw people in they don't like to make people think its important and think if they have them going through a few ladders that the crowd won't boo the rest of the show. While the Cena match is just for John boy to overcome those odds once again. Cena has to get those first dibs for beating the pet heel projects.

The talent in IC title match is immense??, R-truth, Cody and when did they become immense. Ambrose Harper and Ziggler jobbed out to every Vince project and lose more then they win. Bryan who's been booked as crap since his return and has been booked as a afterthought in this match on purpose.

you and a few others might buy into it (I disagree I think this WM isn't that great) so I think I stay cynical right now.

Mr.Nice Guy · 17-03-2015 3:12pm

Looper007 wrote: »

While the Cena match is just for John boy to overcome those odds once again. Cena has to get those first dibs for beating the pet heel projects.

Unfortunately for his critics, John boy is still the biggest star in the company. I don't get why anyone would be upset about Rusev losing the title to Cena as the point of wrestling is that in the end the good guy overcomes the bad guy and gets the win; it's wrestling 101. Rusev has already got a win over Cena and there's nothing wrong with Cena getting the win back in this match for America, and Old Glory, and all that jazz.

If people genuinely think Cena wants to beat Rusev out of some giddy thrill then I really do despair. If the guy wanted to use his stroke and push his weight around he wouldn't be inserting himself into a US Title feud at Mania. He is simply doing what the office asks of him, as usual.

A Primal Nut · 17-03-2015 3:14pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

The appearance of Sting had me smiling, and it was great to see him actually physically battle people. Before he showed up though, I was wondering how big a ****ing idiot Orton was, given the "twist" was visible a mile off.

But Orton accepted the match before the Authority "split". So you can't call Orton an idiot because he didn't accept the match on the basis Rollins would be alone. That's why the story makes no sense. The Authority didn't achieve anything out of their pretend split as Orton had already accepted the match while the Authority were all together at the beginning of the show. The authority are the idiots for pretending to split up for no reason whatsoever.

The storyline should have been:

1) Orton saying he will only accept the match if it's 1 on 1.
2) The authority pretend to split up, leaving Rollins alone.
3) Orton now accepts the match.
4) After the match begins the authority appear united.

Instead it was:

1) Orton accepts a match.
2) The authority pretend to split up for the craic.
3) The authority re-unite.

CSF · 17-03-2015 3:59pm

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

I think Heyman has boosted interest in the match, Can Reigns beat Lesnar, can he do what Cena and HHH could'nt do, what will Lesnar do or might do after mania.

I think He has also put Reigns over to, bad ass samoan, his family history, using Austin to Sammartino in promo's, the locker room parting when he walk past to.

He does what he does better then anybody, just my opinion

Do people generally care about whether Reigns can beat Lesnar? I wasn't under the impression that this was the case.

Rock Lesnar · 17-03-2015 4:15pm

CSF wrote: »

Do people generally care about whether Reigns can beat Lesnar? I wasn't under the impression that this was the case.

never said care, I said interest, interest sells ppv's, if people are interested in what happens, like can Reigns do what Heyman says he cant do, then they might buy the ppv to see.

CSF · 17-03-2015 4:34pm

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

never said care, I said interest, interest sells ppv's, if people are interested in what happens, like can Reigns do what Heyman says he cant do, then they might buy the ppv to see.

But that's what I was saying, are people interested in what happens?

Lord TSC · 17-03-2015 5:07pm

CSF wrote: »

But that's what I was saying, are people interested in what happens?

I'd imagine the fact it's painfully obvious Reigns is walking out champ would kill the majority of interest...

CSF · 17-03-2015 5:08pm

Lord TSC wrote: »

I'd imagine the fact it's painfully obvious Reigns is walking out champ would kill the majority of interest...

That's part of it, the other part is that people are not willing to accept Roman Reigns as a top face.

A Primal Nut · 17-03-2015 5:09pm

According to Meltzer, they only realised that the horrible Russian lawyer accent was that bad when he was on air; and Vince called an audible for the commentators to bury him so it would look like an intentional joke.

Surely they do rehearsals? Or casting?

veganrun · 17-03-2015 5:26pm

I don't know what it was but I started to feel sorry for Rollins during the opening promo and started to dislike Orton.

mrkiscool2 · 17-03-2015 5:28pm

CSF wrote: »

I'm with the other guy on this. I don't think the U.S. title has necessarily been elevated by this feud that much at all. Sure, it's 2 upper card guys fighting for it, which might make it feel that way, but the feud just doesn't seem to be that much about the US title at all. Yes we had that one moment where Cena held the hold until Lana agreed to put the title on the line, but largely winning the title has been an afterthought, whereas the Lesnar v Reigns one and the IC feuds are purely based on the respective participants desire to win the belt, possibly with the exception of Daniel Bryan.

I'm inclined to agree with the notion that this IC feud is designed to keep certain people out of the main feud than it is to elevate the belt. The notion of the belt being elevated requires the idea that the status of the belt will rise to the participants level, rather than the status of the participants dropping to the belts level.

We are yet to see that. All Bryan, Ziggler and Ambrose have recently enough been involved in opening and closing of Raws and main event of PPVs. Now they seem to have dropped into the middle of Raw and well down the card of this PPV and the last one for Ambrose. If they're gonna elevate the belt's status in 2015 and have feuds that matter on Raw enough to play a more prominent role then fine, but there's no sign of that happening yet. Very much a relegation of the superstars rather than a promotion of the belt so far.

Looper007 wrote: »

I don't have to get over it, I think it smells bad and I will moan about it before and after the match cause its bad booking. Sorry to bust your bubble.

We both have different opinions on this, pretty much this match has split people down the middle. Some like you think it's going to elevate the titles but others think it's a match (ic title) just to throw people in they don't like to make people think its important and think if they have them going through a few ladders that the crowd won't boo the rest of the show. While the Cena match is just for John boy to overcome those odds once again. Cena has to get those first dibs for beating the pet heel projects.

The talent in IC title match is immense??, R-truth, Cody and when did they become immense. Ambrose Harper and Ziggler jobbed out to every Vince project and lose more then they win. Bryan who's been booked as crap since his return and has been booked as a afterthought in this match on purpose.

you and a few others might buy into it (I disagree I think this WM isn't that great) so I think I stay cynical right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that they couldn't find a place for Bryan on the card and shoe-horned him into the ladder match. I think if anyone argued against that then they would be ignoring a lot of the rumours about Bryan's place on the card. Nor is the reason that the IC has been elevated because Bryan is in the match. I would much prefer to see Bryan in the main event then this match.

At the same time, I'd much prefer to see Bryan and Ziggler in this match than just against each other or Bryan vs Sheamus. As I have said already the level of talent in this match is incredible. I think you are the only who doesn't believe it is Looper. R-Truth is a lot better than what he is giving credit for or shows most weeks (beause he is in 3-4 minute squash matches normally) and if you don't think Cody is a great wrestler than you need to actually watch the matches and not be sucked in by his weird character. It's all well and good to say I'm "buying it" when the booking of the guys have clouded how talented they are to you, meaning you're the one lapping up what they are feeding you.

I also don't agree that a. the status of the superstars have dropped and b. the title isn't playing a prominent role on Raw (and Smackdown). It has gotten the most time apart from the Rollins-Orton feud and the Reigns-Lesnar match (the IC title match has had a better build than this by the way). So I already see that as a sign the title itself is elevated. Of course, if after WM it becomes an afterthought again then I'll not only hold my hands up and blame the WWE for screwing it up but just comparing the status of both belts compared to this time last year it's pretty clear to see they are a lot more important than they were.

They aren't feeding Rusev to Cena. When was the last time you say Cena not somehow get out of a submission move? Rusev locked in the Accolade and Cena passed out. Sure, how they got there may have been a little screwy but all the same that's a pretty strong, clear victory for Rusev. WM is always the time when long stories come to a head. Rollins-Orton, HHH-Sting etc are coming to their logical conclusion where the bad guy finally gets whats coming to you. Since after Wrestlemania last year, Rusev has been on a war path. He hasn't been beaten clean, he has insulted America during that time and taken "their" title. It makes sense for an American to beat him at WM. Sure, you could have had others do it but it wouldn't have been as believable now that Rusev has been on such a streak. Again, Cena and Rusev have brought the best out of each other since the Rumble, it's been great to watch. I also don't think winning the title has been as much as an afterthought between Fast Lane and WM then it was from Rumble to Fast Lane. John Cena has mentioned wanting to win the title as well as defend America's honour whereas Rusev wants to keep the title to show the Americans Russia is better.

Look, it's all well and good to say you think both Cena and Bryan (and to a lesser extent Ziggler and Ambrose) have been shoe-horned into matches. But surprisingly they have settled into them well, have made me care about those matches as well as bringing the status of the title up with them. Also, if you think how they have booked either match so far is bad booking then you clearly haven't seen bad booking before. It's been good, not brilliant, but good.

CSF · 17-03-2015 6:18pm

There's no questioning that Bryan, Ziggler and Ambrose are better than what was contesting the title before them. But the intercontinental titles role on the show won't improve as a result. Are we gonna see the guys feuding for it ever open a Raw? Unlikely. A closing match on Raw, never mind a PPV? Unlikely.

So the title is likely to stay as it was before but WWE needed something to keep Bryan and Ambrose away from the upper card, because as we saw after Royal Rumble, these guys being white hot is bad for Reigns. We saw it with Ambrose, super over, the fans wanted him in the main event and fighting for titles, and WWE couldn't have that, so they removed him from the main event, people thought initially just temporarily before resuming with Rollins, but nope, multiple defeats to Wyatt later he is much less over.

The plan is the same for Bryan as far as I can tell and you'd have to feel it's working. People assume Bryan is going back to the main event before long but this is probably not the case.

Stereomaniac · 17-03-2015 6:51pm

The only time that I can think of where the Intercontinental Championship headlined a Pay Per View is at SummerSlam 1992, where Davy Boy Smith challenged Bret Hart. That was a unique circumstance, granted. Wrestling was in a pretty big boom period in this neck of the woods and the British Bulldog was a national hero in England, at least was portrayed as. Why would the Intercontinental Champion main event a pay per view over the World Champion nowadays? That just wouldn't make sense. I feel that the time for that would have been when Brock Lesnar wasn't appearing but definitely not any other.

CSF · 17-03-2015 7:01pm

Stereomaniac wrote: »

The only time that I can think of where the Intercontinental Championship headlined a Pay Per View is at SummerSlam 1992, where Davy Boy Smith challenged Bret Hart. That was a unique circumstance, granted. Wrestling was in a pretty big boom period in this neck of the woods and the British Bulldog was a national hero in England, at least was portrayed as. Why would the Intercontinental Champion main event a pay per view over the World Champion nowadays? That just wouldn't make sense. I feel that the time for that would have been when Brock Lesnar wasn't appearing but definitely not any other.

I really meant Raw, the 'let alone a PPV' was a throwaway comment. If the IC title was truly to be elevated then you'd see it opening and closing some Raws in the way that Orton and Rollins, Sting and HHH are, despite Reigns and Lesnar being the number 1 feud at the moment.

With Bryan in the feud, and so many of the main event guys not actually around, this would be the time to do that if they were ever to go that way. But I really don't think that is the intention. This is to clear the path for Reigns in the same way, Daniel Wyatt was intended to clear Batista's path. But the crowd shat on it, so they've played it safer this time, and not gone with any stupid heelturns this time, and so far the crowd haven't shat on it.

I genuinely would narrowly edge towards the thought process that Bryan is more likely to not be the WWE champion again than to be WWE champion again.

Rjd2 · 17-03-2015 7:13pm

CSF wrote: »

I If the IC title was truly to be elevated then you'd see it opening and closing some Raws in the way that Orton and Rollins, Sting and HHH are, despite Reigns and Lesnar being the number 1 feud at the moment.

Or even down the road avoid jobbing the holder out to everyone which they did with Ziggler and have done for so long now that winning the IC title does nothing for anyone.

In 2009 with Rey and Jericho had the title it had some prestige and definitely got more shine than it is getting now and we had no goofy R Truth crap, but of course they got bored and once they finished feuding it was a mere afterthought again.

It would be nice for it to be different this time, but a million times bitten and all that.:(

A Primal Nut · 17-03-2015 7:24pm

If they want to give the IC title prestige they could start by having the IC champion win a match every now and again. As long as they are weekly jobbers, everything else they do won't mean anything.

I am looking forward to the ladder match, but the fact that the IC title belt is on the line is irrelevant.

Tugboats · 17-03-2015 7:37pm

The pointless Bray promos should have stopped when Taker accepted the match. Bray should have matches now with some Undertaker mind games thrown in.

Too much Kane and Big Show as usual.

The Heyman promo in the ring was unnecessary as we had a Brock video

CastorTroy · 17-03-2015 7:40pm

I went quickly through it. Storywise, was Sting known to be in the building? Just asking because how else could they plan to have an interview with him and Orton?

And clearly this was one of the few times where they knew they were being filmed backstage and others were watching.

When watching the Larry Zybysko video, I thought he was a Belushi.

Natalya's heel outfit looks good.

Oh and what was the point of the Battle Royal bit? Like wouldn't that just be giving it away for free?

Lord TSC · 17-03-2015 8:13pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Oh and what was the point of the Battle Royal bit? Like wouldn't that just be giving it away for free?

Gotta build the "No one can eliminate Henry or Kane" spots....

Looper007 · 17-03-2015 8:22pm

CSF wrote: »

So the title is likely to stay as it was before but WWE needed something to keep Bryan and Ambrose away from the upper card, because as we saw after Royal Rumble, these guys being white hot is bad for Reigns. We saw it with Ambrose, super over, the fans wanted him in the main event and fighting for titles, and WWE couldn't have that, so they removed him from the main event, people thought initially just temporarily before resuming with Rollins, but nope, multiple defeats to Wyatt later he is much less over.

The plan is the same for Bryan as far as I can tell and you'd have to feel it's working. People assume Bryan is going back to the main event before long but this is probably not the case.

That's my opinion, its basically stick the IC title on Bryan, give him the odd match here and there on PPV but keep him out of the way. His booking since the RR has been very dodgy to say the least, and the likes of mrkiscool2 (who is given the benefit of the doubt to WWE on this) and others thinking it's doing a world of good for IC title are sadly very wrong. Been burnt by WWE's very dodgy booking has taken its toll so I'm sticking with its another way to keep Bryan out of Main Event for a good while. I wait and see if they prove me wrong and its actually been used for something big but nah I think its a simple case of the guys Vince hates but he knows the fans love them been booked into a match cause they couldn't book them into single matches cause Vince doesn't care.

mrkiscool2 · 17-03-2015 8:27pm

Looper007 wrote: »

That's my opinion, its basically stick the IC title on Bryan, give him the odd match here and there on PPV but keep him out of the way. His booking since the RR has been very dodgy to say the least, and the likes of mrkiscool2 (who is given the benefit of the doubt to WWE on this) and others thinking it's doing a world of good for IC title are sadly very wrong. Been burnt by WWE's very dodgy booking has taken its toll so I'm sticking with its another way to keep Bryan out of Main Event for a good while.

For fucks sake, where did I ever say that a. It's where I want to see Bryan or b. that I want to see the IC strap on Bryan? If you can find the exact quote I'll apologise but I never said anything of the sort, don't be putting words in my mouth. It is extremely annoying. I've already said I'd prefer to see Bryan in the main event, I've already said that I think it's because they have nothing else for Bryan. I'm not wrong about the fact the IC title and US title are a lot better off than they were this time last year.

RAW 16-3-15

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