Is 3-4-3 the best formation with the right players?

shadowcomplex

I think it is but you really have to have the right players, you need

• 3 ball playing defenders that can bring the ball into midfield and contribute in midfield
• Very attacking wingbacks that can also defend
• 2 all round central midfielders that can create and tackle
• 3 forward players that are very fast, more like wingers/number 10s but score a lot of goals

With that in mind I think this team would be very hard to beat

---

De Gea

---

---

Hummels

---

Thiago

---

Luis

---

Lahm

---

Vidal

---

Schweinstegger

---

Marcello-

---

A.Sanchez

---

Suarez

---

Robben

---

I cant see 3-4-3 not working here, the flaw with the formation is that you need very specific players to play it, which is the very reason united were crap playing it, they were trying it with centre halfs that were crap on the ball, with wing backs that were more wingers but also crap wingers and with slow forwards

patsat

Putting Neuer into goals would be a no brainer there, with that formation the keeper gets the ball to feet alot.

Get Rodgers at the helm and that team 'd be mighty.

Harry Palmr

The only good formation is a winning formation and that can be anything you like.

shadowcomplex

patsat wrote: »

Putting Neuer into goals would be a no brainer there, with that formation the keeper gets the ball to feet alot.

De Gea is better than Neuer

duffman13

No Ronaldo and David Luiz/Felipe Luis being in is a loser for me. Put Real Madrid against that team and it would beat it fairly handy, being honest put a high pressing decent team against it and it would struggle.

Formations are subjective and as such I think 4-2-3-1 is the best formation with the right players as is 4-4-2 and 4-3-3.

duffman13

shadowcomplex wrote: »

De Gea is better than Neuer

In your opinion

CSF

duffman13 wrote: »

In your completely incorrect opinion

Now, there we have it

Ardent

Sanchez over Messi, Robben over Ronaldo?? Pffff. Marcelo???

Another vote for 4-2-3-1 here. It was very en vogue 10 years ago - even Ferguson dabbled with it before eventually reverting to his tried-and-trusted 4-4-2. With the right players and right attitude, it's very effective.

shadowcomplex

duffman13 wrote: »

No Ronaldo and David Luiz/Felipe Luis being in is a loser for me. Put Real Madrid against that team and it would beat it fairly handy, being honest put a high pressing decent team against it and it would struggle.

Formations are subjective and as such I think 4-2-3-1 is the best formation with the right players as is 4-4-2 and 4-3-3.

In your opinion

shadowcomplex

4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 , yes definitely open for debate to be better but 4-4-2 with 2 out and out central strikers is dead , no top team plays that way anymore with 2 out and out strikers

duffman13

shadowcomplex wrote: »

In your opinion

Yes in my opinion if you play the right players in a system that optimises their talent, then yes, that is the best formation in my opinion.

shadowcomplex

CSF wrote: »

Now, there we have it

I hope you know that an opinion can't be incorrect, I might actually be wrong but I am still entitled to an opinion so in essence it cant be incorrect


Too complicated for you ok , lets start off with something easier


1+1=?

Guy:Incognito

With the right players any formation is the right one.

bradlente

De Gea has proved this season how good a shot stopper he is but I imagine a 3-4-3 formation would benefit more from a sweeper keeper and Neuer is definitely the best in that regard.

CSF

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I hope you know that an opinion can't be incorrect, I might actually be wrong but I am still entitled to an opinion so in essence it cant be incorrect


Too complicated for you ok , lets start off with something easier


1+1=?

Opinions can be incorrect. Where did you get the crazy notion that they can't?

Ulysses Gaze

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

With the right players any formation is the right one.

And with the right Manager

duffman13

shadowcomplex wrote: »

4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 , yes definitely open for debate to be better but 4-4-2 with 2 out and out central strikers is dead , no top team plays that way anymore with 2 out and out strikers

You could argue the way we look at formations has changed full circle in the last 10 years. Fergies old 4-4-2, at times, could be classed as a 4-2-3-1 if being played today. It might be 5 or 10 years before we see two out and out strikers ala Yorke and Cole or Sutton and Shearer but no doubt it will come back in vogue at some point.

LvG used 3-4-3 buts it was in his eyes a 3-1-2-1-3. I think when we speak about formations going forward we will break it down to the finest detail in order to be specific. 4-2-3-1 is just a variation of 4-3-3 and I honestly believe that there is no best formation for any team. Transitioning has become so important now that formations change every time the possession changes.

In successful 3-4-3 formations one of the CM usually always drops into play as a defender turning it into an a back 4 when defending, formations cant be rigid anymore.

Ulysses Gaze

shadowcomplex wrote: »

I hope you know that an opinion can't be incorrect, I might actually be wrong but I am still entitled to an opinion so in essence it cant be incorrect

Eamon Dunphy, is that you?

:D:D

eagle eye

It all depends on the players at your disposal as to which system is better.

Xavi made tika taka unbeatable with something like a 4-2-1-2-1 formation for Spain and with Barca in a 4-1-2-3 formation.

Germany won the last World Cup with a 4-2-3-1 formation, and Bayern won the Champion's league with the same formation two years ago. Real Madrid won it last year with a 4-3-3 formation.

Personally I'd take that Barca team with Xavi in his prime and tika taka to beat any team of superstars with any other system. I understand they will get beat from time to time but over the course of many games they win more than any other team imo.

Nalz

CSF wrote: »

Opinions can be incorrect. Where did you get the crazy notion that they can't?

Opinions based on factual errors can be wrong due to the fact.

duffman13

Also when is the last team that won something significant playing 3-4-3. Ajax under LvG winning the Champions League? If it is the optimum formation why is nobody making it a long term goal to move toward this formation. You can argue Liverpool and United this season but other than that I cant think of anyone else.

IncognitoMan

duffman13 wrote: »

Also when is the last team that won something significant playing 3-4-3. Ajax under LvG winning the Champions League? If it is the optimum formation why is nobody making it a long term goal to move toward this formation. You can argue Liverpool and United this season but other than that I cant think of anyone else.

Barca around 2011 and 2012 I think played a fairly similar system to a 343 setup. I know it was always listed as 433 but wasn't it something like this, at least when they were in possession.

---

Valdes

----Puyol

---

Busquets

---

Pique

Alves

---

Xavi

---

Iniesta

---

Alba/Abidal

---Pedro

---

Messi

---

Villa

Mr Blobby

CSF wrote: »

Opinions can be incorrect. Where did you get the crazy notion that they can't?

Well to be fair he does think 1+1= ?

... Sure a question mark isn't even a number

larchielads

shadowcomplex wrote: »

4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 , yes definitely open for debate to be better but 4-4-2 with 2 out and out central strikers is dead , no top team plays that way anymore with 2 out and out strikers

City??

eagle eye

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Barca around 2011 and 2012 I think played a fairly similar system to a 343 setup. I know it was always listed as 433 but wasn't it something like this, at least when they were in possession.

---

Valdes

----Puyol

---

Busquets

---

Pique

Alves

---

Xavi

---

Iniesta

---

Alba/Abidal

---Pedro

---

Messi

---

Villa

They never played like that.

When they were in total control of a game they would play 2-3-2-3.

IncognitoMan

eagle eye wrote: »

They never played like that.

When they were in total control of a game they would play 2-3-2-3.

So?
_________Valdes

___Puyol_________Pique

Alves____Busquets__Alba/Abidal

_______Xavi______Iniesta

Pedro_____Messi______Villa

I don't know I'd say the full backs are further up than that. Moving Alves and alba up beside xavi and iniesta probably is the closest representation of their formation. Which looks 343

shadowcomplex

larchielads wrote: »

City??

City aren't a top team

CSF

shadowcomplex wrote: »

City aren't a top team

Ok

GavRedKing

Im willing to bet 95% of your posts include a formation or combined XI.

Also that team is cack.

larchielads

shadowcomplex wrote: »

City aren't a top team

They're pretty much a top team in England and league champions but yeah your right I suppose:rolleyes:

Fitz*

3-4-3 is so 2 months ago.

3-1-2-1-3 is where its at now :cool:

LuckyLloyd

shadowcomplex wrote: »

City aren't a top team

This thread is hard going.

GLaDOS

Is there nothing to be said for the 2-2-1-2-1-2 formation?

tastyt

I just can't believe somebody managed to pick their dream team and has put in David luiz and Marcelo while leaving out messi, Ronaldo and neymar........

Fitz*

tastyt wrote: »

I just can't believe somebody managed to pick their dream team and has put in David luiz and Marcelo while leaving out messi, Ronaldo and neymar........

Personally think no team should be without Busquets & Alaba. The front 3 are usually a given!

Turtwig

Barcelona in their final season with Pep played a 3-4-3 variation. Problem was defensively that left them unbalanced. So they defended with a 4-4-2 variant. Even this proved very problematic as there'd be too much space on the wings to exploit for a counter attack. Getting the shape back too much time. So Pep changed the defensive block to 4-5-1. Still took too long to transition but it did make them more solid defensively. It absolutely killed their ability to counter-attack swiftly. He kept tinkering with the formation pretty much right until he left.
Another problem was that the pressing game he required was no longer as effective. Not only was his player's application less than it used to be, opposing teams were aware of their 'style' and happy to concede possession to deny space in the final third. The transitioning from one formation in attack to one in defence required more work and more application of a cover based system. Which is both mentally and physically draining. As a result, they dropped off teams more and pressed less. Becoming less dynamic with possession and using it more and more as a defensive shield -making them for want of a better term more boring to watch.

So, 3-4-3 might be the best formation with the right players in Barcelona's case it shot themselves in the foot. That's side weakness was always counter attacks and a high line defence. When they transitioned to 3-4-3 those problems were exacerbated significantly. Even teams at the bottom of La Liga were puncturing through them.

I can't think of a team that employed the 3-4-3 formation in last decade that was defensively solid. I don't think the formation allows it for it. Might be wrong.

TheDoc

Combined world XI with no Kroos disgusts me....

gosplan

Huge credit to OP for managing to stick dream team, formation debate ... AND DDG is the world's best goalie debates all in one post.

Harry Palmr

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Is there nothing to be said for the 2-2-1-2-1-2 formation?

Yep

---

Skrtel--Sakho

---

Can

---

Moreno

---

Lucas--

---

Hendo---Allen

---

Coutinho

---

Sturridge----Sterling

shadowcomplex

No that is not my world 11 , I was just trying to give examples that would best suit that formation, my world 11 would be as follows

---

De Gea

---

Lahm

---

Godin

---

Thiago

---

Alaba

---

Kroos

---

Pogba

---

---

Robben

---

Messi

---

Bale

---

---

Ronaldo

---

There'd be no Beating that side :-)

duffman13

So a 4-2-3-1 with right players that wouldn't be beaten?

shadowcomplex

duffman13 wrote: »

So a 4-2-3-1 with right players that wouldn't be beaten?

perhaps 1 loss out of 15-20 games, its 11 v 11 after all

GavRedKing

In the 2 years since Pep has gone to Bayern Lahm has featured maybe half a dozen times at FB, that surely rules him out of being the best RB?

CSF

That and any world 11 without Neuer in it is incorrect by default.

Skylinehead

And that team is sorely lacking at DM.


As in, there's no DM.

Shanotheslayer

Can't take a XI serious without Neuer. Also Pogba? He wouldn't even make my 2nd best XI

syklops

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The only good formation is a winning formation and that can be anything you like.

This. If you have the right players, a 10-1 formation can be the best. If you have the right players.

RedemptionZ

I know it's still up for dispute on what formation they played since it was never really static, but Pep's Barca team at its peak are the only side I've seen that on their day would be unbeatable no matter who played them. Could get a world XI from all the other teams and they'd still lose and have under 40% possession. Xavi was just too good and Messi is Messi.

Better than any of fergies united's sides imo

[/canofworms]

klose

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I know it's still up for dispute on what formation they played since it was never really static, but Pep's Barca team at its peak are the only side I've seen that on their day would be unbeatable no matter who played them. Could get a world XI from all the other teams and they'd still lose and have under 40% possession. Xavi was just too good and Messi is Messi.

Better than any of fergies united's sides imo

[/canofworms]

Hardly that controversial of a statement

Donnielighto

What were Napoli like defensively with 343?