Changing from Shimano to Campag

Jim Stynes

Any love for campag in here lads? I have my eye on a winter frame at the minute. I know a fella doing a good deal on campag athena and chorus groupsets. My plan would be to take my groupset off my good bike and put it on the winter bike and then put the new campag groupset on the bianchi. Keep the good bike all italian and lovely and stylish :rolleyes:! Is it just down to preference or is there any evidence that campag is better or worse than shimano.

pedro_colnago

Campagnolo is quality. I use both Shimano and campagnolo on different bikes. Have 10 speed record and I love it. U can't really go wrong with Athena and chorus. Never heard any bad reports on either.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Maybe I'm in a minority but I think campag groupsets especially the RD and cranksets/chainrings are ugly as sin and look cheap. I love campag wheels though.

bcmf

Running Athena and I love it. Chorus is meant to be a shade crisper shifting wise but bang for buck......Athena wins hand down imo

el tel

Your groupset preference is like your sexual orientation - it's probably genetic.

However, like a bi-sexual , some people have no strong preference for either Campag or Shimano.

As for SRAM, I don't know how that fits in with the hypothesis, zoophiles perhaps?

:pac:

doozerie

Before you decide, see how your hands fit on the Campag hoods. They'll be spending a lot of time there and if you find the shape, size, and feel don't suit your hands then that could be a big problem longer term. Also try changing gears, you might love or hate the different mechanism or, as with most people, it may make no difference to you whatsoever.

My personal preference is Campag, and I've found (older vintage, circa 1999) Chorus to be extremely durable and reliable. Modern Chorus is quite different mind you, I expect it performs better but it also has a lot more carbon parts (levers, chainset, rear mech) and I'd be hesitant to add carbon to the winter bike my current Chorus groupset is fitted to - that's just paranoia creeping in on my part though, I'm perhaps overly concerned about dropping the bike on a wet or icy winter spin and shattering something that'll leave me walking home. I've not tried Athena.

My experience has also been that Campag parts (derailleurs, chainrings, ...) outlast Shimano ones so although the initial purchase price is higher I think it arguably works out at least on a par with, and perhaps better value than, Shimano over time. The difference in purchase price is significant though, and that is hard to overlook.

TheBlaaMan

Love Campagnolo groups and wheels
Currently running 10s Record and moving to 11s Chorus and would not hesitate to recommend the brand. (but so too will same Shimano users....)

It is pricey ......

G rock

11sp athena user.

Now my only frame of reference is 9sp tiagra, so maybe not a fair comparison, but I've found the athena to be faultless over the last couple of years, it has never skipped a beat, and I've barely touched it maintenence wise.

I've seen some people, who have used both, rate it higher than ultegra , but ymmv.

Who's doing the good prices by the way??

greenmat

Campy Chorus 11 speed for me, shifts perfectly. Brilliant Groupset. As for Campy Wheels, there even better, had Zonda's on the race bike for 1 1/2 years, still rolling great, now use Shamal Ultra and they are excellent. Shimano wears out, Campy wears in

pedro_colnago

greenmat wrote: »

Campy Chorus 11 speed for me, shifts perfectly. Brilliant Groupset. As for Campy Wheels, there even better, had Zonda's on the race bike for 1 1/2 years, still rolling great, now use Shamal Ultra and they are excellent. Shimano wears out, Campy wears in

Love zondas, best pound for pound wheel u can get in my humble opinion

Jim Stynes

good stuff lads. lots of good info there. I think I am buying a dolan alu frame. I will definitely need to get using a campag set up first before I buy! Don't want to have any regrets!

Raam

Jim Stynes wrote: »

I will definitely need to get using a campag set up first before I buy! Don't want to have any regrets!

No need really. I have a few Shimano bikes and one Campag. It is easy to switch back and forth.

Edit: Sorry, I mis-read and thought you said "get used to using a Campag set up first before I buy". Probably no harm to have a go first alright.

Lumen

I have SRAM Red/Force, Campag Chorus and Shimano Ui2 on various bikes.

They're all good.

Idleater

Lumen wrote: »

I have SRAM Red/Force, Campag Chorus and Shimano Ui2 on various bikes.

They're all good.

Having built up a stockpile of shimano related tools I decided against campagnolo and switched everything to sram.

As a matter of interest, (considering I have everything to dis and reassemble a 1980-present day shimano compatible bike), what campagnolo tools are required nowadays? I'm thinking power torque something and cassette removal would be the most obvious?

foxer3640

Have campy super record and record on my 2 race bikes. Shimano 105 11speed on my cc bike. I prefer the look of campy but I'd pick shimano every day of the week for its crisp shifting

doozerie

Idleater wrote: »

As a matter of interest, (considering I have everything to dis and reassemble a 1980-present day shimano compatible bike), what campagnolo tools are required nowadays? I'm thinking power torque something and cassette removal would be the most obvious?

Tools to: install/remove bottom bracket cups, install/remove cassette lockring (same tool worked for older cartridge/sealed bottom brackets, a nice touch by Campag), torx keys for chainring bolts.

Also an 11-speed capable chaintool if joining chains with a pin. Re-usable 11sp split links are not readily available, at least I've not found any when I've checked, so I still prefer using pins. You may need an 11sp chaintool for recent Shimano/SRAM chains too, it'd be recommended I'm sure but it would be a necessity if they need the new pin peened as Campag do.

After that it starts to get a bit messy:
* For ultra torque b/b: a long allen key/tool to install/remove cranks, bearing puller to replace bearings.
* For power torque b/b, I've not used it so this is from vague memory of what I've read: crank puller to remove cranks, bearing puller to replace bearings (same bearing puller as used for ultra torque, if I remember rightly).

That's all that springs to mind, I may well be leaving out something though.

pedro_colnago

doozerie wrote: »

Tools to: install/remove bottom bracket cups, install/remove cassette lockring (same tool worked for older cartridge/sealed bottom brackets, a nice touch by Campag), torx keys for chainring bolts.

Also an 11-speed capable chaintool if joining chains with a pin. Re-usable 11sp split links are not readily available, at least I've not found any when I've checked, so I still prefer using pins. You may need an 11sp chaintool for recent Shimano/SRAM chains too, it'd be recommended I'm sure but it would be a necessity if they need the new pin peened as Campag do.

After that it starts to get a bit messy:
* For ultra torque b/b: a long allen key/tool to install/remove cranks, bearing puller to replace bearings.
* For power torque b/b, I've not used it so this is from vague memory of what I've read: crank puller to remove cranks, bearing puller to replace bearings (same bearing puller as used for ultra torque, if I remember rightly).

That's all that springs to mind, I may well be leaving out something though.

From a mechanics perspective i wonder is campagnolo harder to work on than Shimano?? I have always replaced Shimano groupset parts handy enough but I dunno campagnolo looks more hard work so I send my campagnolo based bike into the local bike shop for any work to be done or maybe it's that there seems to be more campagnolo specific tools needed so that's why I avoid doing any work on campagnolo?

doozerie

pedro_colnago wrote: »

From a mechanics perspective i wonder is campagnolo harder to work on than Shimano?? I have always replaced Shimano groupset parts handy enough but I dunno campagnolo looks more hard work so I send my campagnolo based bike into the local bike shop for any work to be done or maybe it's that there seems to be more campagnolo specific tools needed so that's why I avoid doing any work on campagnolo?

I’m not sure that Campag is really harder to work on than Shimano, it’s debatable but I’d fall on the side of saying they are pretty much on a par. Both need a specific tool for bottom bracket cups and another for cassette lockring so no difference there, and while Campag UltraTorque requires a long allen key/tool for the cranks Shimano require a specific tool to preload the bearings (plus an allen key for the NDS crank of course) so the difference there is negligible too (though probably a little more expensive for Campag).

Power Torque does add significant extra cost and, arguably, complexity to working on the b/b though, the crank puller is not cheap if you buy the a “real” one (people have adapted generic pullers to do the same task but results seem to be mixed, from what I’ve read).

Changing the b/b bearings is where the differences become more significant. Shimano recommend throwing away used cups+bearings and installing new ones (though it is possible to replace the bearings and seal and re-use the cups), and if you follow that recommendation then no extra tools are needed, whereas you will need a suitable bearing puller to remove used bearings from the Campag cranks and another tool to install the new bearings. Many home mechanics probably don’t want to invest in such tools for a job that is needed only occasionally so they’ll probably rely on a bike shop to do it instead.

Apart from that, generally speaking from a purely maintenance point of view, I don’t think there is a notable difference between Campag and Shimano. The brakes and gears are straightforward in both cases. Campag levers can be serviced though, you can replace damaged/worn springs, lever blades, etc., which is a big bonus to a bike maintenance nerd like me but that involves a learning curve which is probably a hurdle to some/many and also probably reinforces the image of Campag as being harder to maintain.

I’ve not done much with Campag hubs so there may be some notable differences there too. Some Record hubs I’ve worked on used loose bearings, just like Shimano favour, but I’m not sure that is as consistent across the Campag range as it is with Shimano. Loose bearings tend to require less specific tools.

Campag also tend to emphasise the fine tolerances that apply, when using 11-speed in particular - for example, if you are replacing a Campag chainring the advice is to restore any shims which were added between the chainrings at the factory to guarantee that both rings are spaced/aligned correctly - and personally I’ve not seen such emphasis for Shimano kit. That could be interpreted in any of a number of ways, both positive and negative for Campag (I interpret it positively, personally), but I reckon it adds to the mystique of Campag kit and again may scare some people off working on it themselves.

Electronic groupsets may also reinforce the image that Campag should be left to professional mechanics. I’ve never dealt with an electronic groupset of either brand but while I’ve read of the intensive training courses that Campag insist that their official support centres undergo, I’ve not come across as much info from Shimano. That may be due to my biased reading of course, I’d assume that Shimano electronic groupsets require significant training on too and that I’ve just not been reading sources where it is discussed, but perhaps that kind of info is emphasised/publicised more by Campag and could be another factor in the image that people have of Campag as being more complex.

pedro_colnago

doozerie wrote: »

I’m not sure that Campag is really harder to work on than Shimano, it’s debatable but I’d fall on the side of saying they are pretty much on a par. Both need a specific tool for bottom bracket cups and another for cassette lockring so no difference there, and while Campag UltraTorque requires a long allen key/tool for the cranks Shimano require a specific tool to preload the bearings (plus an allen key for the NDS crank of course) so the difference there is negligible too (though probably a little more expensive for Campag).

Power Torque does add significant extra cost and, arguably, complexity to working on the b/b though, the crank puller is not cheap if you buy the a “real” one (people have adapted generic pullers to do the same task but results seem to be mixed, from what I’ve read).

Changing the b/b bearings is where the differences become more significant. Shimano recommend throwing away used cups+bearings and installing new ones (though it is possible to replace the bearings and seal and re-use the cups), and if you follow that recommendation then no extra tools are needed, whereas you will need a suitable bearing puller to remove used bearings from the Campag cranks and another tool to install the new bearings. Many home mechanics probably don’t want to invest in such tools for a job that is needed only occasionally so they’ll probably rely on a bike shop to do it instead.

Apart from that, generally speaking from a purely maintenance point of view, I don’t think there is a notable difference between Campag and Shimano. The brakes and gears are straightforward in both cases. Campag levers can be serviced though, you can replace damaged/worn springs, lever blades, etc., which is a big bonus to a bike maintenance nerd like me but that involves a learning curve which is probably a hurdle to some/many and also probably reinforces the image of Campag as being harder to maintain.

I’ve not done much with Campag hubs so there may be some notable differences there too. Some Record hubs I’ve worked on used loose bearings, just like Shimano favour, but I’m not sure that is as consistent across the Campag range as it is with Shimano. Loose bearings tend to require less specific tools.

Campag also tend to emphasise the fine tolerances that apply, when using 11-speed in particular - for example, if you are replacing a Campag chainring the advice is to restore any shims which were added between the chainrings at the factory to guarantee that both rings are spaced/aligned correctly - and personally I’ve not seen such emphasis for Shimano kit. That could be interpreted in any of a number of ways, both positive and negative for Campag (I interpret it positively, personally), but I reckon it adds to the mystique of Campag kit and again may scare some people off working on it themselves.

Electronic groupsets may also reinforce the image that Campag should be left to professional mechanics. I’ve never dealt with an electronic groupset of either brand but while I’ve read of the intensive training courses that Campag insist that their official support centres undergo, I’ve not come across as much info from Shimano. That may be due to my biased reading of course, I’d assume that Shimano electronic groupsets require significant training on too and that I’ve just not been reading sources where it is discussed, but perhaps that kind of info is emphasised/publicised more by Campag and could be another factor in the image that people have of Campag as being more complex.

Great post, very interesting reading thanks. Yeah i think it's because I have a half built up winter bike with campagnolo veloce/centaur parts and I'm stuck as regards the bottom bracket and crank and the cables so il probably get it finished by the local bike shop. Have to say I love campagnolo even tho most of my bikes are Shimano

Jim Stynes

Im making the switch! It's just now if I should pay the extra money for Chorus or not! Advice lads. Is Chorus worth the extra money over Athena?

Lumen

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Im making the switch! It's just now if I should pay the extra money for Chorus or not! Advice lads. Is Chorus worth the extra money over Athena?

It's not necessarily a question of better, more different.

See details of the new Athena shifting:

http://road.cc/content/news/120589-campagnolo-reveal-2015-athena-and-veloce-groupsets

So you choose between multiple downshifts on Chorus or possibly better ergonomics on Athena.

Then for the crankset you have UltraTorque (Chorus) vs PowerTorque (Athena):

http://www.campagnolo.com/AU/en/Technologies/power_torque_system
http://www.campagnolo.com/AU/en/Technologies/ultra_torque

AstraMonti

I have Athena, Record, Super Record but Chorus is the only sensible choice IMO, Athena is a bit less than others, Record-SR is just extra bling with no significant gains.

Rua_ri

AstraMonti wrote: »

I have Athena, Record, Super Record but Chorus is the only sensible choice IMO, Athena is a bit less than others, Record-SR is just extra bling with no significant gains.

So you do not recommend the Campag flavours that you have, but rather the one that you dont have?

AstraMonti

It depends, if we are talking about value, I do believe Chorus is the best choice. If money is not an issue then by all means go to super record.

Rua_ri

Ok. So the sensible decision on a price/performance basis is Chorus based on that assumption.

For the record , I use Chorus (2014) and love it.
Cant compare to any other flavour as i have never used them.

Raam

I like my Super Record cos it has a bit of red on it.

Actual Paramedic

Campag fan totally, way better shifting and the ability to trim gears easy. Have hand had Mirage, Chorus, Super Record and the RS version. Financially the Chorus is best, race equipment for the best price.

As for the mechanical versus electronic, I am sticking with mechanical but in 3 years time reckon all the manufacturers will be pushing for the electronic

Idleater

Raam wrote: »

I like my Super Record cos it has a bit of red on it.

I read that as

Raam wrote: »

I like my Super Record cos it has a bit of fred on it.

onthefringe

Jim Stynes wrote: »

Im making the switch! It's just now if I should pay the extra money for Chorus or not! Advice lads. Is Chorus worth the extra money over Athena?

have had pretty much all " flavours"..
currently have athena on 2 bikes and super record on another..
apart from the multiple downshift feature theres shag all difference..
had chorus and indeed there is no doubt it is the best bang for buck- all boxs ticked.

one note; do not buy a power torque crank..
even if it means upgrading to a chorus crank or buying a new old stock ultra torque athena

power torque ( even with the correct tools) is painful..
takes less than 60 seconds to take off an ultra torque crank..
considerably more fluting about with powertorque