Kendrick Lamar - To Pimp A Butterfly

Boom_Bap

MOD: Let's keep this on topic please

mufcboy1999

I think its way too soon to speak of this album as one of the best in the last decade. Off the top of my head going right back as far as 2005, the likes of the Games the documentary, 50s the massacre, nas's life is good, xzibits napalm, lamar's section 80, saigons the greatest story never told series, t.i the king and ti vs t.i.p, kanyes late registration and college dropout, Watch the throne and yes recovery by eminem are all examples of albums that have stood the test of time for me.

I often go back to a lot of these and many many more, the test of time is the biggest test for any album. If cuts off this are being played 10 years from now or you find yourself going back to it in a few years, then its worthy of been called one of the best of the last 10 years imo.:)

Jezek

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I think its way too soon to speak of this album as one of the best in the last decade. Off the top of my head going right back as far as 2005, the likes of the Games the documentary, 50s the massacre, nas's life is good, xzibits napalm, lamar's section 80, saigons the greatest story never told series, t.i the king and ti vs t.i.p, kanyes late registration and college dropout, Watch the throne and yes recovery by eminem are all examples of albums that have stood the test of time for me.

I often go back to a lot of these and many many more, the test of time is the biggest test for any album. If cuts of this are being played 10 years from now or you find yourself going back to it in a few years, then its worthy of been called one of the best of the last 10 years imo.:)

This is not album that will be on the radio in a few months or in ten years...However I think it will be remembered as a seminal work. It really does need to be taken as a whole, it might hurt the sales or radio time but I think this will ensure its longevity.

mufcboy1999

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I think its way too soon to speak of this album as one of the best in the last decade. Off the top of my head going right back as far as 2005, the likes of the Games the documentary, 50s the massacre, nas's life is good, xzibits napalm, lamar's section 80, saigons the greatest story never told series, t.i the king and ti vs t.i.p, kanyes late registration and college dropout, Watch the throne and yes recovery by eminem are all examples of albums that have stood the test of time for me.

I often go back to a lot of these and many many more, the test of time is the biggest test for any album. If cuts of this are being played 10 years from now or you find yourself going back to it in a few years, then its worthy of been called one of the best of the last 10 years imo.:)

Agree with this for sure.
I really do like the album at the moment but not sure how I feel in the next few years as you say

Napalm is so underrated its criminal btw

jonneymendoza

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I think its way too soon to speak of this album as one of the best in the last decade. Off the top of my head going right back as far as 2005, the likes of the Games the documentary, 50s the massacre, nas's life is good, xzibits napalm, lamar's section 80, saigons the greatest story never told series, t.i the king and ti vs t.i.p, kanyes late registration and college dropout, Watch the throne and yes recovery by eminem are all examples of albums that have stood the test of time for me.

I often go back to a lot of these and many many more, the test of time is the biggest test for any album. If cuts of this are being played 10 years from now or you find yourself going back to it in a few years, then its worthy of been called one of the best of the last 10 years imo.:)

no love for GKMC?

mufcboy1999

Napalm is so underrated its criminal btw

+1. I loved it, everything from the production to the subject matter. Louis XIII the lead single had to be one of dre's best beats in years, probably since 50s outta control from the massacare or the likes of grow up by bishop lamont in 09, lets be honest most of dre's recent production has been average to poor especially with eminem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4GowCI7Fzo

no love for GKMC?

I most defiantly do, I think its a great album but for me it fell short of what it should of been and fell short of section 80, which is by far his best work for me. I suppose though it's still one of the better albums released this decade when I really think about it, I just taught it could of been better.

MD1990

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

I think its way too soon to speak of this album as one of the best in the last decade. Off the top of my head going right back as far as 2005, the likes of the Games the documentary, 50s the massacre, nas's life is good, xzibits napalm, lamar's section 80, saigons the greatest story never told series, t.i the king and ti vs t.i.p, kanyes late registration and college dropout, Watch the throne and yes recovery by eminem are all examples of albums that have stood the test of time for me.

I often go back to a lot of these and many many more, the test of time is the biggest test for any album. If cuts off this are being played 10 years from now or you find yourself going back to it in a few years, then its worthy of been called one of the best of the last 10 years imo.:)

Did u not like F&L & The Cool or MBDTF?

mufcboy1999

MD1990 wrote: »

Did u not like F&L & The Cool or MBDTF?

Tbh I taught mbdtf was over rated, decent album but its not for me, way too many features and overdone tracks imo. This was around the time I developed a fairly large dislike for kanye and everything he represents. I find it hard to enjoy his music considering he's such an ignorant idiot in his own little self obsessed bubble, and his last album yeezus was pure and utter rubbish anyway.

The other two are great too, I was just naming albums off the top of my head, it wasnt meant to be a list in any particular order.

mufcboy1999

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Was anybody else kind of hoping we had more stuff like this or at least the finished version of the song, this could of been a monster of a track.

He needs to start spazzing out more on his songs imo, rigamortis etc he's well capable of it.

That beat is animal.

To go back on topic my fav tracks on the Album are Blacker the Berry, King Kunta & I..

But I still feel like I did with GKMC
I can only pick a handful of tracks from that also;

Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe
Money Trees
Maad City (Love MC Eight and the beat mashup)
Swimming Pools

I'm torn at the moment but that because I prefer something with a harder / heaver beat especially when he starts free-styling on it going mad.

Remember this?

Sheeeeit

Institutionalised has really grown on me, great track. Also Complexion, especially when it fades out to another beat and Rapsody starts rapping, epic stuff.

Muirshin Durkin

I wasn't a fan of GKMC, wasn't into the production, didn't think it sounded like A west coast album so was sceptical about this album before I listened to it, I'm chuffed now I did, I only got around to listing to it yesterday now I'm on my 4th play through, I love it, feels like a west coast album, the funk samples throughout even has George Clinton featured on it are class, some songs even have a touch of the pharcyde in them. The Wests been missing this sound. Kendrick's gained a new fan.

floggg

I think much like GKMC, this album shouldn't be judged in the usual manner as simply being a collection of songs. Its attempts to be so much more than that, and largely succeeds.

It's a single cohesive piece of work, which runs together as a single narrative (pieced together through the poem) and should be taken and enjoyed in that way.

The songs fit together, and themes introduced in one are expanded upon and developed in subsequent songs.

So For Sale can't be just be considered simply on its own merits, without also considering how it fits in with For Free and Wesley Theory.

The Blacker the Berry also wasn't meant to be taken individually, and should be considered as part of a set alongside I, Complexion, Hood Politics and possibly You Ain't Gotta Lie. In turn i has to be considered alongside u. U has to be considered alongside alright - which fits in with institutionalised and Wesleys Theory.

You also have to consider how he uses different flows and vocal tones to inject different emotions, or to infer development and further the narrative.

And how he uses the Pac interlude to present such grand themes as simply being the manifestation of an imagined conversation.

So again, much like GKMC the album is greater than the sum of its parts. You have to judge each song not only on its own merits but on how it fits into the overall theme and narrative, and what it is trying to see individually and as part of the overall story.

A song like Rigamortus wouldn't work here because rapping about rapping, or showing of am amazing delivery without saying anything of substance wouldn't add anything to the project or the narrative. He's thinking far bigger than any single song here, and is setting higher goals than verse of the year.


So I can therefore see why some people are calling it a classic already. Not in the sense of illmatic or AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, in that you will be playing it 20-25 years after release and still loving it as a piece of music perhaps.

But it's classic in terms of what it says and achieves as a cohesive whole - which I haven't seen matched by too many (if any) albums.

It's like a ground breaking movie which stuns with its cinematography and the themes it explores. Even if you never quote find yourself drawn to re-watch it a second time, you'll always be struck by the impression it left on you the first time, and how every element of it fit together so beautifully and perfectly.

So even if I would prefer to re-watch Die Hard for the 10th time than watch the Pianist for a second time, I know that in so many ways the Pianist is an infinitely better piece of film making.

Jezek

floggg wrote: »

I think much like GKMC, this album shouldn't be judged in the usual manner as simply being a collection of songs. Its attempts to be so much more than that, and largely succeeds.

I'm with you. I even think that this album would be better served if the whole thing was one track and not broken up. I thought the same thing of You're Dead!, and kendrick seems to have absorbed some things from FlyLo. They would actually make pretty good companion records to each other. I might add in Black Messiah to make a pretty radical black music trilogy of 2014/15

jonneymendoza

floggg wrote: »

I think much like GKMC, this album shouldn't be judged in the usual manner as simply being a collection of songs. Its attempts to be so much more than that, and largely succeeds.

It's a single cohesive piece of work, which runs together as a single narrative (pieced together through the poem) and should be taken and enjoyed in that way.

The songs fit together, and themes introduced in one are expanded upon and developed in subsequent songs.

So For Sale can't be just be considered simply on its own merits, without also considering how it fits in with For Free and Wesley Theory.

The Blacker the Berry also wasn't meant to be taken individually, and should be considered as part of a set alongside I, Complexion, Hood Politics and possibly You Ain't Gotta Lie. In turn i has to be considered alongside u. U has to be considered alongside alright - which fits in with institutionalised and Wesleys Theory.

You also have to consider how he uses different flows and vocal tones to inject different emotions, or to infer development and further the narrative.

And how he uses the Pac interlude to present such grand themes as simply being the manifestation of an imagined conversation.

So again, much like GKMC the album is greater than the sum of its parts. You have to judge each song not only on its own merits but on how it fits into the overall theme and narrative, and what it is trying to see individually and as part of the overall story.

A song like Rigamortus wouldn't work here because rapping about rapping, or showing of am amazing delivery without saying anything of substance wouldn't add anything to the project or the narrative. He's thinking far bigger than any single song here, and is setting higher goals than verse of the year.


So I can therefore see why some people are calling it a classic already. Not in the sense of illmatic or AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, in that you will be playing it 20-25 years after release and still loving it as a piece of music perhaps.

But it's classic in terms of what it says and achieves as a cohesive whole - which I haven't seen matched by too many (if any) albums.

It's like a ground breaking movie which stuns with its cinematography and the themes it explores. Even if you never quote find yourself drawn to re-watch it a second time, you'll always be struck by the impression it left on you the first time, and how every element of it fit together so beautifully and perfectly.

So even if I would prefer to re-watch Die Hard for the 10th time than watch the Pianist for a second time, I know that in so many ways the Pianist is an infinitely better piece of film making.

would u rate it on par with illmatic?

Muirshin Durkin

jonneymendoza wrote: »

would u rate it on par with illmatic?

Dont think anything is on par with that album to be fair.

Jezek

Muirshin Durkin wrote: »

Dont think anything is on par with that album to be fair.

Definitely not an album released a few weeks ago. Maybe it will be in 10 years (Even though I don't think so.) Just enjoy it for now and give it some time, we will see how it ages. Maybe Kendrick Lamar's next album will be even better...it's all to play for!

floggg

jonneymendoza wrote: »

would u rate it on par with illmatic?

Yes and no.

In some regards, it is superior to illmatic but not in others.

I don't think it's helpful to try and compare them as I think they try to be two different things.

Illmatic was an exhibition in sheer lyrical ability, but in many ways TPAB tries to be so much more.

It's a little over simplistic to judge TPAB simply on beats and rhymes - two metrics on which illmatic wins hands down.

But in terms of narrative, themes and cohesive ssh TPAB wins hands down.

I also don't ascribe to the view that illmatic was the greatest thing since sliced bread and hate the way it's always held up as the standard against which all others must be judged.

I think it's truly achieved cult status - to the point where people seem to pay unhealthy reverence to it. I dont see it as infallible or as any standard against which all projects should be judged agaagainst


It's an excellent album no doubt, and an undeniable classic, but only one of many. It excels at many things but also lacks of other projects. I dont even think it's the most compelling body of work Nas gas produced - I think Distant Relatives' greater depth, substance and diversity makes it a more compelling listen overall.

floggg

Jezek wrote: »

Definitely not an album released a few weeks ago. Maybe it will be in 10 years (Even though I don't think so.) Just enjoy it for now and give it some time, we will see how it ages. Maybe Kendrick Lamar's next album will be even better...it's all to play for!

It's going to be really interesting to see what he produces for the next one.

Of two narrative based concept albums it's going to be difficult for him to go back to releasing a more conventional album.

He's raised the stakes for himself quite high now.

Jezek

floggg wrote: »

It's going to be really interesting to see what he produces for the next one.

Of two narrative based concept albums it's going to be difficult for him to go back to releasing a more conventional album.

He's raised the stakes for himself quite high now.

HE has...he has to do something completely different next time. HE could go full experimental, or he could make an album full of big singles...either way it would be exciting !

It seems he was inspired to make this when he went to africa. So who knows what will happen to inspire him next. All I know is I'm very happy with the way his music is progressing, I can see the logical progression from section .80 to GKMC to TPAB. He hasn't let me down yet so I just trust that he'll give us somethign good when he's ready. TPAB is a dense record that is holding up very well to repeated listens, so we'll the fans should be happy for a while at least.

callaway92

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Tbh I taught mbdtf was over rated, decent album but its not for me, way too many features and overdone tracks imo. This was around the time I developed a fairly large dislike for kanye and everything he represents.

hmmmmm

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

class album, i couldnt stop meself buyin a few tracks of itunes, i liked it so much i went in and bought the cd version for the car today.

top album from start to finish.

EDIT: That's not to insult you btw. I just said I'd go back and have a look at the MBDTF main thread to see what people thought of it then.

I agree with what you said in this thread though. Severely overrated album.

mufcboy1999

callaway92 wrote: »

hmmmmm





EDIT: That's not to insult you btw. I just said I'd go back and have a look at the MBDTF main thread to see what people thought of it then.

I agree with what you said in this thread though. Severely overrated album.

My first few listens I would of liked it a lot, to be honest i do most albums. But like I said I do still think its decent, but it wore off me fairly fast. The more I listened to it, the more I dissected it and honestly saw it as overrated in comparrsion to the reviews etc.

Again its still a great album despite imo the bad features and played out production of it, overhyped mainly because kanye decided to ditch the autotune and 808s to pick the mic back up and start rapping again.

Zero-Cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRK7PVJFbS8

phatkev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkedvCA8330

jigglypuffstuff

floggg wrote: »

Yes and no.

In some regards, it is superior to illmatic but not in others.

I don't think it's helpful to try and compare them as I think they try to be two different things.

Illmatic was an exhibition in sheer lyrical ability, but in many ways TPAB tries to be so much more.

It's a little over simplistic to judge TPAB simply on beats and rhymes - two metrics on which illmatic wins hands down.

But in terms of narrative, themes and cohesive ssh TPAB wins hands down.

I also don't ascribe to the view that illmatic was the greatest thing since sliced bread and hate the way it's always held up as the standard against which all others must be judged.

I think it's truly achieved cult status - to the point where people seem to pay unhealthy reverence to it. I dont see it as infallible or as any standard against which all projects should be judged agaagainst


It's an excellent album no doubt, and an undeniable classic, but only one of many. It excels at many things but also lacks of other projects. I dont even think it's the most compelling body of work Nas gas produced - I think Distant Relatives' greater depth, substance and diversity makes it a more compelling listen overall.

I think you need to go back and listen to illmatic again, then once you've done that listen to it again, and again, and one last time...then revisit that statement....

mufcboy1999

video is dope, the right visuals can make a song sound so much better these days.

conor.hogan.2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbXfvNuZJ3o

Kendrick shouted out this review - To pimp a caterpillar was the original title of the album spells out 2pac.

jonneymendoza

Slim1996 wrote: »

Don't quote me till you actually listen to that Beyonce album then you'll understand

i have and its average lol

Talib Fiasco

I really don't get the Kendrick hype. I mean he's a decent rapper with interesting topics but his albums are and never will be better than "good". He has some individual bangers but overall I don't think he's that great at all. Kendrick's albums cannot rival Nas's last album or even Distant Relatives for that matter never mind his magnum opus....that's a crazy remark. Maybe Kendrick just isn't for me....off the new school he's probably up there with the finest but guys like Gibbs have released far better stuff. Pinata for example (granted Madlib deserves his props) blows anything Kendrick has done out of the water. Point being, the "veterans" are probably putting out better sh*t in their twilight compared to Kendrick in his prime. Again opinions will be opinions and if you love K-Dot's music, more power....but lets be real it a K-Dot album couldn't f*ck with Nas' third or fourth best album nevermind his best

mufcboy1999

Tbh most of nas's albums bar the obvious illmatic have been average. He's always for me had way too much filler on them, the usual 2 or 3 quality songs followed by mediocre content.

I'd agree his last album life is good and distant relatives are arguably his closest efforts to illmatic, the lost tapes is worth a mention too, but for the best part his albums as a whole are not great for me.

I think a similar topic was brought up a few years back here, where a lot of people had similar opinions of nas's albums. I'm not taking anything away from his an artist as he's one of my favorites but he hasn't released enough better than good albums either imo.

Talib Fiasco

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Tbh most of nas's albums bar the obvious illmatic have been average. He's always for me had way too much filler on them, the usual 2 or 3 quality songs followed by mediocre content.

I'd agree his last album life is good and distant relatives are arguably his closest efforts to illmatic, the lost tapes is worth a mention too, but for the best part his albums as a whole are not great for me.

I think a similar topic was brought up a few years back here, where a lot of people had similar opinions of nas's albums. I'm not taking anything away from his an artist as he's one of my favorites but he hasn't released enough better than good albums either imo.

It Was Written is as good as Illmatic in my opinion. It's also my favourite album of his. Doesn't get near enough love. The creativity on some of the tracks is awesome, the production was very nice considering it was a Mafioso album. The Message is arguably his best track and with tracks like I Gave You Power, If I Ruled the World Take It In Blood, Black Girl Lost are timeless and some of the best tracks of that era. Great big name features too.

The Lost Tapes is obviously very good but I wouldn't count it as it's a compilation album really and had loads of tracks from the original I Am before leaking ruined it. I Am...the version that was printed was very poor besides some great individual tracks but the "original" I Am is a great great album too.

Stillmatic is also an incredible album, I rate it at the same level as Jigga's Blueprint...so you're talking potential classic. God's Son was very very nice as well. People say Nas is inconsistent due to the fact he never reached the heights of Illmatic but I beg to differ...he has. His later albums have been better than most rapper's later albums. Compare Distant Relatives to Blueprint 3 and MCHG from Jigga and Nas' are better lyrically and musically...granted Jay Z wants to appeal to radios more but even the more "Lyrical" tracks, Nas is still better. I am a big fan of Nas, I rate him the 2nd best MC of all time but I am also one if his biggest critics. Regardless he has one of the best collections of hip hop history.

Illmatic is a 5/5, no arguments. It Was Written and The Lost Tapes are 4.5/5 if not more. Stillmatic a very easy 4/5....so is God's Son and Distant Relatives. Life Is Good is not too far off a 4/5. That's 7 super good albums. I wouldn't rate any of Kendricks past a 4...not even a 4 tbh.