narcissistic children

suicide_circus

So a study from the University of Amsterdamdraws a link between constant praise and narcissism in children. It has been in vogue for some decades now for parents to leave their children in little doubt that they are the most specialest snowflake in all the land. While this is well intentioned, it seems that it is having a negative impact.

The study evaluated more than 560 children between the ages of seven and 11 over 18 months. It found that parental overvaluation was the largest cause of narcissism in a child, but did not necessarily provide them with good self-esteem.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-moriarty/why-overpraising-may-be-responsible-for-a-generation-of-narcissistic-children-31075427.html

As with most cringe worthy vacuous trends,this seems to have been a US import. As I child, when I excelled I was told"well done" but not to be conceited - when I didn't do well, I was commiserated but also commended for my effort and encouraged to try harder next time - that's as far as it went, I was never allowed to develop"notions".

Any opinions? It stands to reason that if achild is constantly praised and cajoled that that they will develop inaccurate image of themselves and their place in the world - destined to failure and disappointment once they get out in the real world.

NachoBusiness

Well it wasn't in vogue in my house to treat children like special snowflakes.

I was given no praise as a child whatsoever. Hence my attempts to feel that void with online thanks whoring

0byme75341jo28

My mammy says I'm great.

percy212

Everyone I know in the US who is under 50 is a narcissist. They do feel entitled and special, but they get **** done. Confidence is good for business.

DoYouEvenLift

There was a similar study done about using 'child talk' and speaking to kids in that childish voice everyone does when addressing kids. Apparently speaking to kids like this can slow down their social skill development and kids who are spoken to by adults in normal conversational manner learn to hold good conversations and socialise better.

Inb4 people starting speaking to their children about the economy over breakfast

Macavity.

Narcissism, yet another word that idiots have redefined.

whiskeyman

Of course, such studies don't apply to my little darlings...

kneemos

Macavity. wrote: »

Narcissism, yet another word that idiots have redefined.

A quick Google reveals narcissism is a result of childhood trauma and is based on mistrust.

suicide_circus

Macavity. wrote: »

Narcissism, yet another word that idiots have redefined.

Anything more to add to that devastating one liner?

Robsweezie

NachoBusiness wrote:

I was given no praise as a child whatsoever. Hence my attempts to feel that void with online thanks whoring 

At least you're honest....

Miall108

If they hadnt have gotten rid of Corporate Punishment in schools then children with big egos would be scarce. Nothing like a good smack of the belt buckle from time to time to keep things in check where its deserved of course along with giving praise where its due to kids. Children should be treated on merit.

Greenmachine

kneemos wrote: »

A quick Google reveals narcissism is a result of childhood trauma and is based on mistrust.

From what I have seen there are high functioning and low functioning narcissists. High functioning have the ego, the charm, the social skills but are full of themselves and can be insensitive. Low functioning lack success, but are highly inclined to blame others for their failures.

recylingbin

Children should be beaten senseless when they act the maggot
Never did me any harm.

Posted from my iWheelchair.

percy212

I am sorry you were beaten as a child.

Miall108 wrote: »

If they hadnt have gotten rid of Corporate Punishment in schools then children with big egos would be scarce. Nothing like a good smack of the belt buckle from time to time to keep things in check where deserved along with giving praise where its due to kids

Aongus Von Bismarck

There's a huge difference between having a healthy sense of self-esteem, self-worth and pride in one's achievements as compared to the needless boasting carried out by a naraccist. Some Irish people seem to find comfort by labeling everyone with self-esteem as a blowhard and a naraccist. That's a begrudger. As tiresome and draining as any naraccist.

Duckworth_Luas

Miall108 wrote: »

If they hadnt have gotten rid of Corporate Punishment in schools

I hated corporate punishment in school. The teacher would invite in mid ranking executives from Pepsi, McDonalds and Microsoft who would scold us on our lack of outside the box thinking

Nforce

What children need is more honesty..

Miall108

percy212 wrote: »

I am sorry you were beaten as a child.

And you were obviously the opposite and probably breastfed into your teens too with a name like that.

A bit of traditional discipline where required certainly doesnt do any harm

kneemos

Greenmachine wrote: »

From what I have seen there are high functioning and low functioning narcissists. High functioning have the ego, the charm, the social skills but are full of themselves and can be insensitive. Low functioning lack success, but are highly inclined to blame others for their failures.

Extremely interesting condition
the bit I read about it .

percy212

Oh yeah. I am actually still on the tit.

You sound lovely. Are you a big lump of a man with rosy cheeks and a history as a cleric.

Miall108 wrote: »

And you were obviously the opposite and probably breastfed into your teens too with a name like that.

A bit of traditional discipline where required certainly doesnt do any harm

Adamantium

I'd believe it. My brother was never very good at school with his dyslexia and parents and teachers over compensated to the point, where any problem I have with him as an adult becomes a disagreement. He can't be wrong or he'll fall apart. You can't ask him questions or be honest and just have a quick bant about...anything, because it's impossible to talk about something without him becoming overly emotionally attached to it, it's beyond his capabilities. His views are him.

I was always good at school and the like, and that was the standard I felt I had set and felt I had to keep hitting and only got noticed by the teachers when I started more average results, but I never got exemptions or anything.

You'd think the hard knocks would have left my brother more rounded because few things came easy to him and I would the narcissist because of how things in early life went more smooth for me.


He's now involved in social care, oh lord christ.

suicide_circus

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

There's a huge difference between having a healthy sense of self-esteem, self-worth and pride in one's achievements as compared to the needless boasting carried out by a naraccist. Some Irish people seem to find comfort by labeling everyone with self-esteem as a blowhard and a naraccist. That's a begrudger. As tiresome and draining as any naraccist.

This was a Dutch study. Classic dutch begrudgery I suppose?

Tarzana2

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

There's a huge difference between having a healthy sense of self-esteem, self-worth and pride in one's achievements as compared to the needless boasting carried out by a naraccist. Some Irish people seem to find comfort by labeling everyone with self-esteem as a blowhard and a naraccist. That's a begrudger. As tiresome and draining as any naraccist.

I know, nobody likes being labelled a naraccist. Who'd want to be labelled something that doesn't exist?

Macavity.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Anything more to add to that devastating one liner?

I hear it used quite commonly nowadays. It seems that anyone who is in any way selfish could be labeled as a narcissist by the many armchair psychiatrists that exist today. It's a serious mental condition and not one to be undermined by some bozo who read a wiki article on it.

KatW4

I've had parents tell me to praise their children more as it stops them being bold! I'm not going to praise your kid for being a little sh*t, they'll think they're perfect and will continue doing whatever they want.

Children do not need constant praise. They need a balance of praise and being told when and why they were wrong.

Miall108

percy212 wrote: »

Oh yeah. I am actually still on the tit.

You sound lovely. Are you a big lump of a man with rosy cheeks and a history as a cleric.

You seem angry. I say that because you resort to such depths as to compare me to a fat member of the clergy with a history of high blood pressure. Thats not very nice, we are entitled to our opinion after all, not everyone who believes in a bit of traditional discipline(where required) is a Song for a Raggy Boy Psycho. For the record, I am neither elderly, fat or have any significant Religious affiliations.

Are you angry because my statements awoke some repressed memories or is it because you are a staunch believer in "mollycoddling" children?

percy212

I am only angry with you. Just you. Nobody else. I think about you a lot.

Miall108 wrote: »

You seem angry. I say that because you resort to such depths as to compare me to a fat member of the clergy with a history of high blood pressure. Thats not very nice, we are entitled to our opinion after all, not everyone who believes in a bit of traditional discipline(where required) is a Song for a Raggy Boy Psycho. For the record, I am neither elderly, fat or have any significant Religious affiliations.

Are you angry because my statements awoke some repressed memories or is it because you are a staunch believer in "mollycoddling" children?

Letree

We can see the fruits of this in the early stages of the X Factor. People coming in without a note in their head thinking they are brilliant. And they are genuinely shocked and crushed when told they aren't up to it. Too much praise from a young age.

blatantrereg

Here is the paper on the study. It also concludes that lack of parental warmth does not cause narcissism. (That was another hypothesised cause for it.) Parental warmth results in improved self esteem in a child.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2015/images/03/09/narcissistic-parenting-study.pdf

suicide_circus

Macavity. wrote: »

I hear it used quite commonly nowadays. It seems that anyone who is in any way selfish could be labeled as a narcissist by the many armchair psychiatrists that exist today. It's a serious mental condition and not one to be undermined by some bozo who read a wiki article on it.

The wiki-reading armchair psychiatrist who conducted this particular study is a postdoctoral researcher in developmental psychopathology.

recylingbin

suicide_circus wrote: »

The wiki-reading armchair psychiatrist who conducted this particular study is a postdoctoral researcher in developmental psychopathology.

A goddam head shrinker. Well I suggest the good doctor take his bit of paoer he has hanging in the wall there and cram it up his @ss then analyse that

/every cop film ever.

Calibos

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

There's a huge difference between having a healthy sense of self-esteem, self-worth and pride in one's achievements as compared to the needless boasting carried out by a naraccist. Some Irish people seem to find comfort by labeling everyone with self-esteem as a blowhard and a naraccist. That's a begrudger. As tiresome and draining as any naraccist.

Head explodes...

Desolation Of Smug

A kick up the narcissist never hurt anyone.

johnny osbourne

suicide_circus wrote: »

So a study from the University of Amsterdamdraws a link between constant praise and narcissism in children. It has been in vogue for some decades now for parents to leave their children in little doubt that they are the most specialest snowflake in all the land. While this is well intentioned, it seems that it is having a negative impact.



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/sinead-moriarty/why-overpraising-may-be-responsible-for-a-generation-of-narcissistic-children-31075427.html

As with most cringe worthy vacuous trends,this seems to have been a US import. As I child, when I excelled I was told"well done" but not to be conceited - when I didn't do well, I was commiserated but also commended for my effort and encouraged to try harder next time - that's as far as it went, I was never allowed to develop"notions".

Any opinions? It stands to reason that if achild is constantly praised and cajoled that that they will develop inaccurate image of themselves and their place in the world - destined to failure and disappointment once they get out in the real world.

lol are you mental?

suicide_circus

johnny osbourne wrote: »

lol are you mental?

You'll have to be more specific

mikom

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

There's a huge difference between having a healthy sense of self-esteem, self-worth and pride in one's achievements as compared to the needless boasting carried out by a naraccist. Some Irish people seem to find comfort by labeling everyone with self-esteem as a blowhard and a naraccist. That's a begrudger. As tiresome and draining as any naraccist.

Well done on spelling narcissist incorrectly three times in the one paragraph.
Please do not let this praise go to your head for fear it will harm your development.

PARlance

mikom wrote: »

Well done on spelling narcissist incorrectly three times in the one paragraph.
Please do not let this praise go to your head for fear it will harm your development.

Luckily he was consistant with his misspelling of the word, if he had spelled it differently each time, he would have schizophrenia.

gctest50

PARlance wrote: »

Luckily he was consistant with his misspelling of the word, if he had spelled it differently each time, he would have schizophrenia.

omg - its spreading through boards.ie TDoIP - tardive-dyskinesia-over-IP

PARlance

gctest50 wrote: »

omg - its spreading through boards.ie TDoIP - tardive-dyskinesia-over-IP

New here, that has gone over my head.

lavdad

I think the parenting is only partially to blame. When a parent overly praises their child as is practically the norm in our culture, they are really treating the child as they wish to be treated, so the narcissism must already be in the parent initially. It's a question of which came first the narcissism or the brat. I think it's a deeper cultural issue, namely cultish individualism and materialism.

nullzero

Paityn Flaky Tanner wrote: »

My mammy says I'm great.

That's a coincidence, she's says I'm great too...

nullzero

KatW4 wrote: »

I've had parents tell me to praise their children more as it stops them being bold! I'm not going to praise your kid for being a little sh*t, they'll think they're perfect and will continue doing whatever they want.

Children do not need constant praise. They need a balance of praise and being told when and why they were wrong.

People do that because it's easy. Easier than actually putting effort into raising your child correctly. Instant gratification for parents instead of having to explain and reason things out with their child.

The Corinthian

The authors of this report could have saved themselves a lot of time by just popping over to Italy for a weekend and interviewing a few mothers of sons there.

sasta le

Anyone notice parents getting kids posing for Facebook photos

conorhal

lavdad wrote: »

I think the parenting is only partially to blame. When a parent overly praises their child as is practically the norm in our culture, they are really treating the child as they wish to be treated, so the narcissism must already be in the parent initially. It's a question of which came first the narcissism or the brat. I think it's a deeper cultural issue, namely cultish individualism and materialism.

There's definately something to that. They say a person with high self esteem believes that they are just as good and just as important as everybody else, a narcisist believes that they are better and more important then everybody else, even when all evidence is to the contrary. You do see an increecing number of such individuals.

Anybody that's watched Band of Brothers and seen the interviews with the men who fought all the way from Normandy to Berlin couldn't help but be struck by the humility and ordinary courrage of such men who sought no praise and claim they did no more then was asked of them. Contrast that with 'generation wuss' as Bret Easton Ellis coined them. He's a grumpy contrarian I know, but he does have a point in his scathing article in Vanity Fair that caused such a stir for ripping on the Millennials:

http://www.vanityfair.fr/culture/livre/articles/generation-wuss-by-bret-easton-ellis/15837

Katgurl

percy212 wrote: »

Everyone I know in the US who is under 50 is a narcissist. They do feel entitled and special, but they get **** done. Confidence is good for business.

It wasn't my experience when working there in a senior management position for a multinational. They were certainly confident but frequently too busy talking about their alleged achievements (I'm way too busy to follow protocol on this issue, I'm just about to close a twenty billion dollar deal) to get much done.

I was surprised that I found my irish colleagues much more productive.

FTA69

The Corinthian wrote: »

The authors of this report could have saved themselves a lot of time by just popping over to Italy for a weekend and interviewing a few mothers of sons there.

That place is nuts. I'm away there again in a few months and it always bemused me how grown men in their 30s live at home with mammy and don't pay a penny in rent while expecting their dinner cooked and their clothes washed. When I told people there I moved out at 17 you could tell they thought my home life was abysmal or something.

TheBeardedLady

The Corinthian wrote: »

The authors of this report could have saved themselves a lot of time by just popping over to Italy for a weekend and interviewing a few mothers of sons there.

Interesting. I remember having "relations" with an Italian man once and he spent most of it staring at his reflection in the mirror. His mother sent him lasagnes etc. frozen from Italy weekly. Very, very strange.

TheBeardedLady

My parents, particularly my dad, was fairly "traditional" when it came to praise as I think many parents of his generation were, so I think that parsimony (my new word that I'm delighted I get to use! ) of praise needed to be changed for the sake of the Irish psyche but there is a middle ground.

My sister who lives in the States and is married with two kids always talks about how crazy the schooling system is there and how children are educated in a system where they can't fail. She absolutely refuses to get sucked into it all coming from the background she did and my niece and nephew are two lovely, balanced kids as a result - they have that American confidence that will take them far but with their feet firmly on the ground.

you just have to look at the facebook posts these days and the rates of young suicides. you people are constantly pouting in selfies and topping themselves if they're not a contemporary idea of perfect. They cannot stand the thoughts of being average or normal, they're superstars in their own mind.

I'm sure paris Hiltons brother was told "HE" was the special snowflake and look at how he or they for that matter react when they're told quite the contrary. and then they're lashed all over the daily mail smiling, being celebrated, gaining the column inches they crave the most.. and the youth love and emulate them. this sense of self entitlement and narcissism if everything that's wrong with kids and teenager these days. it's coupled with bad manners, rudeness (which is trendy now, thank you very much Gordon ramsay, simon cowell and the likes).

ah I could go on all day with this rant, young people today are in love with themselves so much I'd call it narcissism on a grande scale.
I heard something before along the lines of " the youth of today just want fame and admiration, they don't want to work but they just know they want it and feel they're entitled to it"..

sums them up I think.... Not all of them mind, a vast majority of loud brash wannabe fame hungry American sounding brats!! No wonder they cannot handle a normal job with normal critique and cooperation with compromise, they'd rather drink coffee and laugh on twitter!!

mikom

rusty cole wrote: »

you just have to look at the facebook posts these days and the rates of young suicides. you people are constantly pouting in selfies and topping themselves if they're not a contemporary idea of perfect. They cannot stand the thoughts of being average or normal, they're superstars in their own mind.

I'm sure paris Hiltons brother was told "HE" was the special snowflake and look at how he or they for that matter react when they're told quite the contrary. and then they're lashed all over the daily mail smiling, being celebrated, gaining the column inches they crave the most.. and the youth love and emulate them. this sense of self entitlement and narcissism if everything that's wrong with kids and teenager these days. it's coupled with bad manners, rudeness (which is trendy now, thank you very much Gordon ramsay, simon cowell and the likes).

ah I could go on all day with this rant, young people today are in love with themselves so much I'd call it narcissism on a grande scale.
I heard something before along the lines of " the youth of today just want fame and admiration, they don't want to work but they just know they want it and feel they're entitled to it"..

sums them up I think.... Not all of them mind, a vast majority of loud brash wannabe fame hungry American sounding brats!! No wonder they cannot handle a normal job with normal critique and cooperation with compromise, they'd rather drink coffee and laugh on twitter!!

Yep, just nowadays............

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”
Socrates. (469–399 B.C.E.)