Landlord has sold apartment

phantom_lord

Got a message yesterday that our current landlord has sold our apartment with no more details given; it was sight unseen so I'm guessing that it was a part of a group of BTL apartments.

I've been here nearly three years, just wondering how does this work, not finding much info online. Does that my lease has essentially terminated? Can I expect notice to leave or possible rent increases?

Thanks!

Baby01032012

phantom_lord wrote: »

Got a message yesterday that our current landlord has sold our apartment with no more details given; it was sight unseen so I'm guessing that it was a part of a group of BTL apartments.

I've been here nearly three years, just wondering how does this work, not finding much info online. Does that my lease has essentially terminated? Can I expect notice to leave or possible rent increases?

Thanks!

Are you in fixed term contract, if not you will have protection of part IV. So notice under that will apply which I can't link to right now.

Sounds like a mass sale. If it was a private individual there would have been viewings and if also buyer was using mortgage bank would have wanted vacant posession.

What information have you been given from landlord? Ask for more details. Maybe if block has been sold other tenants would have received same message or management agent would know.

Depends how much your rent is if it's market rate or below or when last increase was as to likelihood of an increase.

phantom_lord

No info from new landlord yet, it was just the current letting agent that let me know.

seamus

My understanding is that unless the original landlord issued notice to you to leave, then you are functionally unaffected by the sale until/unless you hear otherwise from the new landlord. Even then that landlord can only give you notice under the same terms as your previous landlord, i.e. as if they had been your landlord all along.

Chris_5339762

Make sure you get it, in writing, where your deposit ends up in all this.

the_syco

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Make sure you get it, in writing, where your deposit ends up in all this.

OP; who did you pay your deposit to? The landlord or the letting agent? If the latter, don't be fobbed off that you gotta ring the ex-landlord for it; get it off them.

phantom_lord

the_syco wrote: »

OP; who did you pay your deposit to? The landlord or the letting agent? If the latter, don't be fobbed off that you gotta ring the ex-landlord for it; get it off them.

Yep thanks, that had crossed my mind alright, must get that sorted.

runawaybishop

phantom_lord wrote: »

Got a message yesterday that our current landlord has sold our apartment with no more details given; it was sight unseen so I'm guessing that it was a part of a group of BTL apartments.

I've been here nearly three years, just wondering how does this work, not finding much info online. Does that my lease has essentially terminated? Can I expect notice to leave or possible rent increases?

Thanks!

You can stay another year, until your part 4 tenancy resets, after that they can issue you notice to leave.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Is your rent below market value? If so, I would expect a hike as soon as they legally can

phantom_lord

Apartment is being sold again. This time there's going to be viewings. What are my obligations here?

The agent what's me to cut a key for them; which I'm reluctant to do. So be it if the place needs to be viewed, but I don't want to risk it being viewed without my knowledge.

Thanks!

phantom_lord

Seemingly according to the this thread I don't have any real obligation towards the agent.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056577310

FishOnABike

Your landlord (or their agent) is still obliged to "allow the tenant of the dwelling to enjoy peaceful and exclusive occupation of the dwelling" They cannot simply enter your home without your consent.

There is a counter balancing obligation for you to "allow, at reasonable intervals, the landlord, or any person or persons acting on the landlord's behalf, access to the dwelling (on a date and time agreed in advance with the tenant) for the purposes of inspecting the dwelling".

Any inspections should only be with your agreement. This would usually refer to occasional inspections by your landlord or their agent to check the condition of the property, fixtures, fittings and contents. It would not include showing the property to prospective buyers.

Having said that selling the property within the next three months is one of the valid grounds for issuing notice of termination of the lease (unless you are on a fixed term lease). Making viewing too difficult for prospective buyers might convince the landlord a vacant sale is easier. A bit of give and take on both sides and a prospective investor might be persuaded of the advantage of having a good sitting tenant.

runawaybishop

phantom_lord wrote: »

Apartment is being sold again. This time there's going to be viewings. What are my obligations here?

The agent what's me to cut a key for them; which I'm reluctant to do. So be it if the place needs to be viewed, but I don't want to risk it being viewed without my knowledge.

Thanks!

Zero obligations, you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your home. You might consent to viewings on a date and time of your choosing while you are present. Its been known to negotiate lower rent to accommodate this.

Grandpa Hassan

runawaybishop wrote: »

Zero obligations, you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your home. You might consent to viewings on a date and time of your choosing while you are present. Its been known to negotiate lower rent to accommodate this.

Like another poster said, if the OP is too obstructive, the LL might decide it's not with their while to let them stay, and issue part IV termination on the ground of selling the house. So the OP needs to find a balance between being helpful and not being inconvenienced too badly

foggy_lad

phantom_lord wrote: »

Apartment is being sold again. This time there's going to be viewings. What are my obligations here?

The agent what's me to cut a key for them; which I'm reluctant to do. So be it if the place needs to be viewed, but I don't want to risk it being viewed without my knowledge.

Thanks!

Tell the agent to get a key from the landlord if they need one for emergencies and also tell them if they ever enter your home without your permission and your attendance you will make a complaint to the Gardai for trespass and the PRTB for illegally entering the property and also reporting them to the Property Services Regulatory Authority for their illegal behaviour.

The_Conductor

Point of note- investors have almost without exception exited the market. If/when the property is now sold- it is almost certain it will be sold to an owner occupier. OP- you need to factor this into your equation- you are entitled to notice as per the 2004 Act- however, sale of the property is one of the grounds for terminating the lease- and you'll have gone through this 2 times- plus the next purchaser is definite to want it as their own home- you are not going to get to stay in the property much longer- come what may.

I'd be looking for new accommodation asap.

runawaybishop

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Like another poster said, if the OP is too obstructive, the LL might decide it's not with their while to let them stay, and issue part IV termination on the ground of selling the house. So the OP needs to find a balance between being helpful and not being inconvenienced too badly

I find having strangers wandering about my home to be a serious inconvenience personally and the agents instruction to furnish them with a key so they can schedule viewings whenever they want to be very cheeky, apart from a violation of ops privacy. Balance is fairly well tipped already.

If the LL thinks that sort of behavior is acceptable then any tenant would be best suited finding new accommodation anyway.

The_Conductor

runawaybishop wrote: »

I find having strangers wandering about my home to be a serious inconvenience personally and the agents instruction to furnish them with a key so they can schedule viewings whenever they want to be very cheeky, apart from a violation of ops privacy. Balance is fairly well tipped already.

If the LL thinks that sort of behavior is acceptable then any tenant would be best suited finding new accommodation anyway.

Grand- in which case the owner gives the OP notice to get out as soon as the notice period is served. They're on borrowed time already in any case (given the new purchaser seems to have bought a bunch of the units, with the express intention of churning them at a profit).

The OP is on borrowed time- and its a when rather than an 'if' as to whether they are going to get served notice. If they facilitate viewings etc- the landlord will probably be happy to leave them in situ up to close of the sale- otherwise- its notice right here, right now.........

As to whether or not the rights of the tenancy are intact after the sale- that too, is up in the air (and indeed, is currently being tested). The sale of the property- it is argued, trumps the 2004 Act. For a potential purchaser though- the safer option is to demand vacant possession earlier rather than later (aka so there is no risk to a potential purchaser).

The OP- is going to get their notice to quit. Whether its in 1 week or 2 months time- depends on how they play their cards.

runawaybishop

The_Conductor wrote: »

Grand- in which case the owner gives the OP notice to get out as soon as the notice period is served. They're on borrowed time already in any case (given the new purchaser seems to have bought a bunch of the units, with the express intention of churning them at a profit).

The OP is on borrowed time- and its a when rather than an 'if' as to whether they are going to get served notice. If they facilitate viewings etc- the landlord will probably be happy to leave them in situ up to close of the sale- otherwise- its notice right here, right now.........

As to whether or not the rights of the tenancy are intact after the sale- that too, is up in the air (and indeed, is currently being tested). The sale of the property- it is argued, trumps the 2004 Act. For a potential purchaser though- the safer option is to demand vacant possession earlier rather than later (aka so there is no risk to a potential purchaser).

The OP- is going to get their notice to quit. Whether its in 1 week or 2 months time- depends on how they play their cards.

Notice term is the same either way, right? I am all for amicable solutions, the agents approach doesnt strike me as amicable.

the_syco

phantom_lord wrote: »

Yep thanks, that had crossed my mind alright, must get that sorted.

If the new agent said that they don't have your deposit, perhaps say that you'll move out early if you get said deposit?

phantom_lord

The_Conductor wrote: »

Point of note- investors have almost without exception exited the market. If/when the property is now sold- it is almost certain it will be sold to an owner occupier. OP- you need to factor this into your equation- you are entitled to notice as per the 2004 Act- however, sale of the property is one of the grounds for terminating the lease- and you'll have gone through this 2 times- plus the next purchaser is definite to want it as their own home- you are not going to get to stay in the property much longer- come what may.

I'd be looking for new accommodation asap.

They're looking to sell to investors now. Lease is up soon enough and I'd likely be moving in any case.


Agent seems quite insistent that I have to let him in at his request, under the guise of the landlord carrying out an inspection. I've no problem with a viewing by arrangement but I don't live in a showroom, I don't want anyone in my place without me.

phantom_lord

Is this something I could get advice from a solicitor on for a reasonable cost?

The_Conductor

You are under no obligation whatsoever to facilitate viewings of the property.
You are 100% definitely allowed be present, while the landlord inspects the property.
Any inspection of the property- has to be arranged in advance- at a time that you are happy with.

If the agent tries to tell you otherwise- they are wrong- plain and simple.

In a situation like this- you might organise a rent reduction- if you were willing to facilitate them- but you are under absolutely no obligation to facilitate them.

Personally- I'd be looking for a steep discount in the rent for the period- if you were to agreed to this- however, everything else being equal- I just wouldn't agree to it.

The_Conductor

phantom_lord wrote: »

Is this something I could get advice from a solicitor on for a reasonable cost?

Your rights are spelt out in the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

Link here

The agent is trying to brow beat you into agreeing to something that you have absolutely no obligation to accede to.

seamus

I wouldn't waste your money on a solicitor unless the agent is taking some actual action against you. The agent cannot enter without your permission, simple as. There are no ifs or buts around it. At best a solicitor can send them a letter warning them not to enter, but it has no legal gravitas.

If you suspect that they're going to enter the property without your permission, do something to find out if/when they have entered the property. If you have an alarm, change the code so they won't be able to turn it off when they do enter. Otherwise set up a webcam to record anyone who may enter.

Or the simplest of things, place an item somewhere that it will fall/get knocked over if someone enters the property.

If they do enter the property without permission, ring them up and eat them out of of it, then make a complaint to the PRTB.

FishOnABike

You are entitled to quiet enjoyment of your home. The agent or landlord have no right enter your home without your agreement except in an urgent emergency where the nature of the emergency makes it impractical to contact you before it has to be dealt with. Any entry outside of this is trespass.

The agent is absolutely not entitled to bring viewers into your home as and when he wants. His attitude alone would dissuade me from giving him a key.

If you are willing to allow viewings it is on your terms. If that happens to be every third tuesday between 8:03pm and 8:46 so be it. I can't find the thread but I recall one tenant 'robustly' removing an estate agent who came in uninvited with viewers in tow. It didn't happen a second time.

You say your lease is just up, is it a fixed term lease? If you are otherwise happy where you are and want to stay there then some cooperation with viewings (but on your terms) might help.

You might want to check your rights under part iv of the residential tenancy act in your particular circumstances and lease terms and whether you might want to inform the agent of staying under a part iv tenancy before the lease ends. Threshold should be able to give some advice on this.

phantom_lord

Thanks for the replies.

seamus wrote: »

I wouldn't waste your money on a solicitor unless the agent is taking some actual action against you. The agent cannot enter without your permission, simple as. There are no ifs or buts around it. At best a solicitor can send them a letter warning them not to enter, but it has no legal gravitas.

TBH if it was something that I could get for 50 quid I wouldn't mind just because of how frustrating he's being.

The_Conductor wrote: »

Your rights are spelt out in the 2004 Residential Tenancies Act.

Link here

The agent is trying to brow beat you into agreeing to something that you have absolutely no obligation to accede to.

Yeah I'm 99% sure he's talking through his hat. I was just tempted to call his bluff about advising me to talk to my solicitor.

FishOnABike wrote: »

His attitude alone would dissuade me from giving him a key.

This is a big issue too, I've been more than amiable with the landlord so far, but this agent seems to doing his best to try and change that!

Grandpa Hassan

FishOnABike wrote: »

You might want to check your rights under part iv of the residential tenancy act in your particular circumstances and lease terms and whether you might want to inform the agent of staying under a part iv tenancy before the lease ends. Threshold should be able to give some advice on this.

I think that someone made the point before that investors are no longer active in the market. So the strong likelihood is that this property will be purchased by an owner occupier. Part IV is explicit that the OP will have to leave if that is the case.

The OP should get looking around anyway, just in case, as notice could be given as soon as a sale to an owner occupier goes through

phantom_lord

The agent forwarded me on an email that he sent his solicitor

One tenant consulted Dr Google and said I was not correct and they could insist on being present at a time that suits them. I told them to ignore Dr Google and consult their lawyer who would confirm what I said. I'm pretty sure of my ground but would welcome your imprimatur before 18:00

That this guy is a professional agent astounds me at this stage tbh.

Michael D Not Higgins

phantom_lord wrote: »

The agent forwarded me on an email that he sent his solicitor



That this guy is a professional agent astounds me at this stage tbh.

There's only one thing for it, make a complaint to the PSRA about the agent. Professions won't get better til the public demands that they do.

seamus

Agreed, make a formal complaint to the PSRA about this idiot. Although your landlord probably doesn't care because he's selling up, no harm letting him know that his letting agent is a moron.

I love how absolutely sure the agent is that he is correct, but still looking for his own solicitor to back him up.