Match Thread: Scotland v Ireland, Murrayfield, Sat 2.30pm **See Mod Warning Post #1**

.ak

There's something absolutely amazing about waking up with the hangover from hell and then trying to force your way back through blurry memories and then realizing we just won back to back six nations. I had to check online to make sure it wasn't a dream. I also remember they showed Jurassic Park in the pub straight after... Well, surely that's what dreams are made of? Best day ever.

salmocab

Crazy French lunatics trying to give me a heart attack.

shuffol

I think the weather deserves a mention as it played a big part, had it been a shiite day in Edinburgh we wouldn't have had a hope.

digzy

marco_polo wrote: »

To be fair whenever he has missed one he usually comes back to nail the next one bar the NZ game where he never got another chance.

It may be fair to say he doesn't quite have ROG/JW levels of ice running through his veins standing over the pressure kicks (few do), but he has nailed a good few in his time as well it must be noted, his overall success rate is good enough for international level and he brings plenty more to the table in general play.

I don't have any stats to back up my presumption but.....
I doubt rog's kicking success percentage is any better than sexton's. In hindsight, people seem to think retired players are better than they were. Rog couldn't tackle for sh1t either!

Buer

It's not. There was a study done on all test kickers a couple of years ago. ROGs is lower.

Edit: I'm wrong. Don't have the up to date info to hand but up to 2012, ROG was ahead. It was Humphreys who was the top percentage kicker from Ireland.

.ak

salmocab wrote: »

Crazy French lunatics trying to give me a heart attack.

The pub I was in was going crazy when they tapped at the end, although most of us didn't cop it, when we looked up to the screen to see them play on we all just fell silent, some people managed a "what are they doing?"

But when you think about it, why would they want to kick it out? Surely they'd want to try and score. I'm kinda surprised they did kick it out in the end... I suppose they just wanted to make sure England didn't get it in the end?

salmocab

.ak wrote: »

The pub I was in was going crazy when they tapped at the end, although most of us didn't cop it, when we looked up to the screen to see them play on we all just fell silent, some people managed a "what are they doing?"

But when you think about it, why would they want to kick it out? Surely they'd want to try and score. I'm kinda surprised they did kick it out in the end... I suppose they just wanted to make sure England didn't get it in the end?

Exactly what happened where I was too. Think they kicked it out because they realized that England were going to score again if they got the ball again, the English were playing all out at the end.
Anyone do a try count for the 3 matches yesterday?

shuffol

Buer wrote: »

It's not. There was a study done on all test kickers a couple of years ago. ROGs is lower.

ROG had ice in his veins at crucial moments though, he was a freak like that.

sydthebeat

shuffol wrote: »

ROG had ice in his veins at crucial moments though, he was a freak like that.

Certainly not when he came on the scene first

Buer

For the most part he did but he had some bad days in big games too. He was 1/4 when Munster lost the HEC final, for example. Seem to recall some big misses against NZ too when we were right in it down there. Or the GS game against England that we won by a point.

Definitely a great pressure kicker but everyone succumbs to it at times even someone of his calibre.

People also mention Jonny Wilkinson. He had a calamity of a 2011 RWC from the tee and also a stinker in the 2013 T14 final when Toulon went for the double. Also easy to forget the three missed drop goals in the RWC final.

Sexton does wobble at times unfortunately but yesterday showed some real steel to nail the kick after missing those two.

Cool_CM

Any info as to when they arrive back in Dublin?

aimee1

Cool_CM wrote: »

Any info as to when they arrive back in Dublin?

3.30 terminal 1

shuffol

Buer wrote: »

For the most part he did but he had some bad days in big games too. He was 1/4 when Munster lost the HEC final, for example. Seem to recall some big misses against NZ too when we were right in it down there. Or the GS game against England that we won by a point.

Definitely a great pressure kicker but everyone succumbs to it at times even someone of his calibre.

People also mention Jonny Wilkinson. He had a calamity of a 2011 RWC from the tee and also a stinker in the 2013 T14 final when Toulon went for the double. Also easy to forget the three missed drop goals in the RWC final.

Sexton does wobble at times unfortunately but yesterday showed some real steel to nail the kick after missing those two.

He was involved in a lot of big games in his career so would inevitably have some off days. For a last minute touchline conversion or DG to win a game would you pick anyone else?

vienne86

shuffol wrote: »

I think the weather deserves a mention as it played a big part, had it been a shiite day in Edinburgh we wouldn't have had a hope.

Good point. Good weather for all three matches, so no messing.

.ak

shuffol wrote: »

He was involved in a lot of big games in his career so would inevitably have some off days. For a last minute touchline conversion or DG to win a game would you pick anyone else?

Sexton, IMO. And I'm not being smart there but people seem to conveniently forget all the times he's done the above.... Murrayfield (09 and 15), Wembley, Montpelier, Stade de France etc..

.ak

Before the game one thing I was really looking forward to seeing was Henshaw and Fitz on the pitch at the same time. Since last year they've been trying to outplay each other for their provinces and the Connacht game in rds was fascinating to watch. I thought at the time they'll link up so well if they ever play together in green.

They did not disappoint. They're very similar in the sense they have the same vision but yet are vastly different players. Whilst I felt fitz was blowing off some cobwebs and pine splinters he defo settled into the game and really the two of them fed off each other. Fitz was hitting rucks like a flanker and chasing everything. If his tackle wasn't effective he was up on his feet chasing back to be the first to clear the ruck. His work rate is very similar to henshaws. They must be the two hardest working outside backs in the squad.

When Trimble comes back I think joe has some very tough decisions to make... But for my money that was the strongest 15 we put put on the field last night.

I'm still perplexed over the inclusion of jones. We had the game by the balls and he still didn't bring on jones.

Brewster

What a great great day!! My four year old son was with me on the occasion of my 54th consecutive championship game! It was his FIRST championship game and while he doesn't understand every law of the game yet, with me as is dad, he is probably more advanced than most four year olds ! Just a great great performance which took huge mental strength given what happened in Cardiff and indeed the result from Rome just before they took to field. So proud of them all....

Buer

Halfpenny definitely. Montgomery too. Probably Morne Steyn. Possibly Chris Paterson. There are others I'm sure if I think about it.

ROG was a superb player but the reputation as the greatest goal kicker is one built on the Munster legacy and profile. It's such a fascinating road that it alters the perception. He was clearly an excellent kicker though.

bilston

salmocab wrote: »

Anyone do a try count for the 3 matches yesterday?

Think it was 26.

Did anyone watching on the BBC notice how they actually lost count of the score in the England France game at one point? It said 53-30 when it was really 48-35 in the top corner. Normally when the score is wrong you'd know but yesterday I looked at it and genuinely hadn't a clue what the score was at that point. It was just nuts!

Of course the conspiracy theorist in me also thought the BBC were trying to sneak England an extra try in the hope that no one would notice!

bilston

Buer wrote: »

Halfpenny definitely. Probably Morne Steyn. Possibly Chris Paterson. There are others I'm sure if I think about it.

ROG was a superb player but the reputation as the greatest goal kicker is one built on the Munster legacy and profile. It's such a fascinating road that it alters the perception. He was clearly an excellent kicker though.

Chris Paterson used to miss the odd easy kick though. Didn't he have a 'mare for Gloucester against Munster in a HEC Q/F a few years ago? Everyone misses easy kicks.

Edit - oh and there was Gavin Hastings. He was pretty reliable but there will always be the 1991 WC S/F!

Buer

bilston wrote:

Chris Paterson used to miss the odd easy kick though. Didn't he have a 'mare for Gloucester against Munster in a HEC Q/F a few years ago? Everyone misses easy kicks.

Yup. Nightmare of a showing. Everyone misses them as you say. I think he went through the 2010 6N without missing a kick.

efb

bilston wrote: »

Chris Paterson used to miss the odd easy kick though. Didn't he have a 'mare for Gloucester against Munster in a HEC Q/F a few years ago? Everyone misses easy kicks.

Edit - oh and there was Gavin Hastings. He was pretty reliable but there will always be the 1991 WC S/F!

Had that same conversation with a Scottish fan yesterday -he hasn't forgotten - big blot on his copy book!

Surely it's selective memory to call Sexton explicitly a poor pressure kicker. He's made tons of pressure kicks in recent years.

I am rather pleased this morning.

Tobyglen

.ak wrote: »

Sexton, IMO. And I'm not being smart there but people seem to conveniently forget all the times he's done the above.... Murrayfield (09 and 15), Wembley, Montpelier, Stade de France etc..

That's nonsense- your bias is shocking. How many DG's , massive kicks did ROG nail over the years in the last minute?
DG v Wales, Italy winning DG in 2011? Saracens last minute kick from touchline to win by 1pt, Gloucester in the miracle match to get 27 pt buffer, Leicester from before half way line in Welford Road, Leinster in Thomond last min, Northampton after 50 phases, Castres the very next game.

That's only off the top of my head. We're talking last minute clutch plays where the match was over and he was the king of the pressure moments.

Bridge93

Surprised Jonathan Joseph hasnt got more of a mention for player of the tournament. Was he top try scorer? Usually means you're close.

twinytwo

Bridge93 wrote: »

Surprised Jonathan Joseph hasnt got more of a mention for player of the tournament. Was he top try scorer? Usually means you're close.

POC has to be top of the list, the man defies time.

Now Irelands oldest captain and try scorer.

Tobyglen

Bridge93 wrote: »

Surprised Jonathan Joseph hasnt got more of a mention for player of the tournament. Was he top try scorer? Usually means you're close.

Who the nominations?

For me POC should take it! Colossus.

Young's was outstanding, Dan Biggar was very good- emerged as a good leader.

ssaye2

Well that was great.

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely it's selective memory to call Sexton explicitly a poor pressure kicker. He's made tons of pressure kicks in recent years.

Not least, this year.

Sexton - kick percentage
Against France - 100% (6/6)
Against England - 83% (5/6)
Against Wales - 80% (4/5)
Against Scotland - 77.7% (7/9)

Total - 84.6% (22/26)

In comparison - Ford:
Against Wales - 66.7% (4/6)
Against Italy - 77.7% (7/9)
Against Ireland - 66.7% (2/3) He also scored a DG which I'm not including
Against Scotland - 66.7% (4/6)
Against France - 90% (9/10)

Total - 76.4% (26/34)

.ak

Tobyglen wrote: »

That's nonsense- your bias is shocking. How many DG's , massive kicks did ROG nail over the years in the last minute?
DG v Wales, Italy winning DG in 2011? Saracens last minute kick from touchline to win by 1pt, Gloucester in the miracle match to get 27 pt buffer, Leicester from before half way line in Welford Road, Leinster in Thomond last min, Northampton after 50 phases, Castres the very next game.

That's only off the top of my head. We're talking last minute clutch plays where the match was over and he was the king of the pressure moments.

It's not bias. I think both players are capable of it, but sexton is capable of much much more so I would always want him on my team.

You gave examples, I gave examples... I don't get the accusation of bias?

.ak

Actually, if people want to continue discussing kickers and their psychological understanding of their mindset then start up a new thread. This thread is for basking in reflected glory.

duckysauce

Bridge93 wrote: »

Surprised Jonathan Joseph hasnt got more of a mention for player of the tournament. Was he top try scorer? Usually means you're close.

yep he was top with 4

Agent J

I must have watched the last few mins of the Ireland & England matches several times this morning..

Helps with the hangover...

leakyboots

.ak wrote: »

Before the game one thing I was really looking forward to seeing was Henshaw and Fitz on the pitch at the same time. Since last year they've been trying to outplay each other for their provinces and the Connacht game in rds was fascinating to watch. I thought at the time they'll link up so well if they ever play together in green.

They did not disappoint. They're very similar in the sense they have the same vision but yet are vastly different players. Whilst I felt fitz was blowing off some cobwebs and pine splinters he defo settled into the game and really the two of them fed off each other. Fitz was hitting rucks like a flanker and chasing everything. If his tackle wasn't effective he was up on his feet chasing back to be the first to clear the ruck. His work rate is very similar to henshaws. They must be the two hardest working outside backs in the squad.

When Trimble comes back I think joe has some very tough decisions to make... But for my money that was the strongest 15 we put put on the field last night.

I'm still perplexed over the inclusion of jones. We had the game by the balls and he still didn't bring on jones.

Luke was a livewire alright in the first half. Though I thought he made a complete hames of the chance with Henshaw where he didn't cut in on the scissors. Think POC got over after that thankfully.

Faded a bit in the second half. Which is why a) having Jones on the bench and not bringing him on and b) having Jones on the bench (as opposed to Earls) makes zero sense to me.

Thought Felix should have been on for Kearney myself, very poor outing for him again

Tox56

.ak wrote: »

Sexton, IMO. And I'm not being smart there but people seem to conveniently forget all the times he's done the above.... Murrayfield (09 and 15), Wembley, Montpelier, Stade de France etc..

The one in Montpellier was insane, the crowd were going nuts, time was up and it was on his bad side too. Sexton has missed pressure kicks but he's also nailed many many more

shuffol

Tox56 wrote: »

The one in Montpellier was insane, the crowd were going nuts, time was up and it was on his bad side too. Sexton has missed pressure kicks but he's also nailed many many more

That was a super kick alright, that game was when he really came into his own as Leinsters key player IMO. When I was thinking of Sexton clutch kicks in the dying minutes that was the only one I could think of though. I suppose Leinster never really had to pull off last gasp victories, we've inevitably been leading going into the last 10 mins in big games. Pro 12 cup finals aside where we've been out of the running.

rrpc

leakyboots wrote: »

Thought Felix should have been on for Kearney myself, very poor outing for him again

I thought he had a very good game. Made 75 metres in 11 carries, Made 4 tackles (missed 1) and won 2 turnovers. Gave away no penalties either. He ran the ball back most times, only kicked twice.

Buer

Not counting drop goals, the biggest of the lot was to win the HEC in 2009. Don't think there has been a bigger one.

TheGoldenAges

shuffol wrote: »

That was a super kick alright, that game was when he really came into his own as Leinsters key player IMO. When I was thinking of Sexton clutch kicks in the dying minutes that was the only one I could think of though. I suppose Leinster never really had to pull off last gasp victories, we've inevitably been leading going into the last 10 mins in big games. Pro 12 cup finals aside where we've been out of the running.

Yeah and it was his first match after the World Cup where everyone was on his back due to his below average ratio from the tee. Really knew how to silence the critics :pac:

KeithWoodshead

Black Menorca wrote: »

Ralph Keyes the eternal optimist.

We haven't a prayer of puttingb 20+ points on Scotland under this coach.

Black Menorca wrote: »

We're screwed. Wales are storming.

Black Menorca wrote: »

This Irish team is so talented. Probably the best we've ever had, aside from BOD retiring. Yet Schmidt insisted on a very basic and uninspiring plan.

Another Coach with more courage would have had this team playing to their full potential long before now.

The players are showing it now to some degree. Who made that decision? The autobiographies will tell all.

Funnily enough you stopped posting when we started winning .

Just goes to show there's a section of "fans" that only love revelling in defeat.

Embarrassing series of posts, at the time, and even more so in hindsight

efb

Sexton was my MOTM for the first 2 games. He was coming back from injury- give the guy a break!

KeithWoodshead

efb wrote: »

Sexton was my MOTM for the first 3 games. He was coming back from injury- give the guy a break!

His nett worth to the Irish team is immense. He does have a bit of an issue with important kicks on occasion but no one player is perfect. His performances were one of the biggest factors in us winning the title

bilston

efb wrote: »

Sexton was my MOTM for the first 3 games. He was coming back from injury- give the guy a break!

He only played in two of them!

Edit - but yes he was excellent against France and England. He is our most important player by far.

efb

bilston wrote: »

He only played in two of them!

Edit - but yes he was excellent against France and England. He is our most important player by far.

Two apologies

bilston

efb wrote: »

Two apologies

Ah I'm only being an auld pedantic sod.

Nib

The bitterness is strong in this one.

efb

bilston wrote: »

Ah I'm only being an auld pedantic sod.

I Just think he is such an immense leader in the back. I'm a munster man so I wasnt his biggest fan when he dislodged O gara.

He is Ireland's best player imho

efb

Nib wrote: »

The bitterness is strong in this one.

He can go shyte

molloyjh

Some day yesterday. Awesome advert for the game and the tournament. Hats off to Wales, England and France as well for their displays. 27 tries and 221 points across the 3 games. Amazing. But to win the back to back was fantastic.

Hard to talk about individuals in the Irish performance. Healy carries really well, Best was back to his best around the park, POC was absolutely immense, POM in the 3rd quarter was outstanding, SOB is properly back, Heaslips tackle at the end will get posted here if anyone ever questions him again, Sexton ran the game beautifully, Fitzy linked really dangerously with Henshaw and Bowe was as good as he's been in a long time. Anyone still whinging after that are simply showing themselves up.