Match Thread: Scotland v Ireland, Murrayfield, Sat 2.30pm **See Mod Warning Post #1**

efb

molloyjh wrote: »

Some day yesterday. Awesome advert for the game and the tournament. Hats off to Wales, England and France as well for their displays. 27 tries and 221 points across the 3 games. Amazing. But to win the back to back was fantastic.

Hard to talk about individuals in the Irish performance. Healy carries really well, Best was back to his best around the park, POC was absolutely immense, POM in the 3rd quarter was outstanding, SOB is properly back, Heaslips tackle at the end will get posted here if anyone ever questions him again, Sexton ran the game beautifully, Fitzy linked really dangerously with Henshaw and Bowe was as good as he's been in a long time. Anyone still whinging after that are simply showing themselves up.

Haterz gonna hate

Swiwi.

Nib wrote: »

The bitterness is strong in this one.

The point is though (and I'm not agreeing with Stephen Jones' selection by the way, I have my dignity) that ireland was the best team, not necessarily the 15 best individuals. So massive credit to schmidt, POC and the team.

KeithWoodshead

Would have been interesting to see how Zebo would have went yesterday given that he would have had more space and ball than previous games

Fitzgerald went well and justified his selection though

Depressed me to see how vitriolic certain sections of Irish support got in the wake of last weeks defeat. Some goon was claiming on facebook that Zebo "doesn't want to know about it in defense". This is despite the fact that he made some massively important hits in the French and English games

Same shyte spouted about Fitzgeralds try scoring record too

wp_rathead

Nib wrote: »

The bitterness is strong in this one.

Stephen Jones picks a lad from Connacht:eek::eek::eek:

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

The point is though (and I'm not agreeing with Stephen Jones' selection by the way, I have my dignity) that ireland was the best team, not necessarily the 15 best individuals. So massive credit to schmidt, POC and the team.

I think people are underestimating how good the current Ireland team is because Schmidt is so good. There was talk of golden generations during the 2000's and it's true there were a lot of great players then, but the team that started yesterday has top quality 1-15, certainly one of the best Irish teams we've ever seen imo. Back to back outright championships is a huge achievement, England have 1 since 2003

rrpc

Tox56 wrote: »

I think people are underestimating how good the current Ireland team is because Schmidt is so good. There was talk of golden generations during the 2000's and it's true there were a lot of great players then, but the team that started yesterday has top quality 1-15, certainly one of the best Irish teams we've ever seen imo. Back to back outright championships is a huge achievement, England have 1 since 2003

I never really bought into that 'golden generation' thing. It was in some way a reaction to what had gone before and the dearth of talent that seemed to be our lot. However, that was exacerbated by a completely asinine selector's system and the fact that it took us a while to get used to pro rugby. From that point on, the provinces started churning out talented players and the standard got better rather than worse.

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

I think people are underestimating how good the current Ireland team is because Schmidt is so good. There was talk of golden generations during the 2000's and it's true there were a lot of great players then, but the team that started yesterday has top quality 1-15, certainly one of the best Irish teams we've ever seen imo. Back to back outright championships is a huge achievement, England have 1 since 2003

Ah im not denying the team is talented but if you make an objective 6N starting XV I don't think it would automatically be dominated by ireland. How on earth Stephen Jones can choose the Italian 9 as scrumhalf of the tournament only he knows...

aimee1

Tox56 wrote: »

I think people are underestimating how good the current Ireland team is because Schmidt is so good. There was talk of golden generations during the 2000's and it's true there were a lot of great players then, but the team that started yesterday has top quality 1-15, certainly one of the best Irish teams we've ever seen imo. Back to back outright championships is a huge achievement, England have 1 since 2003

its not just 1-15 though either. Moore and McGrath are 2nd choice props for example. Not something we had in the golden generation

KeithWoodshead

Moore had another wonderful steal yesterday. He's very like Dan Cole in the sense that he's destructive at the breakdown

Wang King

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

Pudsy33

Wang King wrote: »

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

Mike Brown, while being a phenomenal athlete, comes across as a prat.

.ak

Wang King wrote: »

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

Italy was embarrassing, they just stopped playing, but I thought Scotland wanted to play. Felt like a sevens game at times. Scotland just got the tactics wrong, badly wrong.

aimee1

Wang King wrote: »

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

the bitterness. France fronted up last year too.

Buer

Scotland and France appeared to approach their fixtures similarly. The difference is England defended quite poorly for some of the tries and France possess players that Scotland simply cannot match.

At the end of the day, allowing France to score 35 points cost England the trophy. That's a shocking return.

aimee1

http://www.football365.com/news/19508/9771871/England-s-Mike-Brown-praises-France-for-efforts-at-Twickenham

stephen_n

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ah im not denying the team is talented but if you make an objective 6N starting XV I don't think it would automatically be dominated by ireland. How on earth Stephen Jones can choose the Italian 9 as scrumhalf of the tournament only he knows...

That was bizzare, I would say any of the home nations scrum halves were ahead of him. I would say Youngs would be my pick but realistically any of Laidlaw, Webb or Murray could easily be it, so much so, it would be a big headache picking 3 scrum halves for the lions if the tour was this year.

.ak

Buer wrote: »

Scotland and France appeared to approach their fixtures similarly. The difference is England defended quite poorly for some of the tries and France possess players that Scotland simply cannot match.

At the end of the day, allowing France to score 35 points cost England the trophy. That's a shocking return.

Some of the fringe defence from England was terrible. The weird camera work for the game made it a weird experience to watch; whenever a french player got the ball on the wing they were over for a try.

We were ringing the bell in the pub for every irish score... But we did it for every french score too! Gas craic.

.ak

Webb and Murray were the best scrum halves this year imo

bilston

All this talk about France turning up is balls. Yes they attacked brilliantly but they shipped 53 points. At times they made no effort whatsoever to defend! The first England try was an embarrassment.

bilston

.ak wrote: »

Webb and Murray were the best scrum halves this year imo

Youngs put in the best performance yesterday but he is a bit hot and cold to be considered I suppose.

Flipper22

Wang King wrote: »

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

Silly sour grapes really. What did he expect. Despite a poor tournament France are a better team with much better players than the other two. England conceded 35 points at home!! Only themselves to blame, they did more than enough in attack but their defence was shocking at times.

It's hard to compare yesterday with the rest of the tournament, that wasn't test rugby we saw yesterday, it was a different game entirely.

Flipper22

bilston wrote: »

Youngs put in the best performance yesterday but he is a bit hot and cold to be considered I suppose.

It suited him perfectly yesterday. I know who I'd take in a WC semi, starts with a 'C', ends with a 'onor Murray"

aimee1

bilston wrote: »

All this talk about France turning up is balls. Yes they attacked brilliantly but they shipped 53 points. At times they made no effort whatsoever to defend! The first England try was an embarrassment.

and france missed 4/5 conversions, if they had got those they would have scored 45. Englands defence was crap. Irelands was excellent, Wales was ok but they conceded a try when they went for one more score. Wales were helped by Italy having 2-3 men in the bin

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Webb and Murray were the best scrum halves this year imo

Youngs was on fire yesterday but otherwise I thought Webb just edged Murray. I also can't make up my mind which fly half was best overall, probably just Sexton but Biggar was a vast improvement for Wales over Priestland and Ford had some lovely touches yesterday, especially the delayed pass for one of their latter tries. Joseph had another good game for England yesterday, although that French defence was fairly charitable.

.ak

Still getting over how good yesterday was. Spending the day in a pub in Killarney with absolutely beautiful weather, great pints, the place full of about 30 scots on tour, the bag pipes, the sheer craic, the first Italian try, then the lows of an awesome display of power from George North, quickly picked up by Sarto's try... The place went mad as if we won already, it just made the point difference feel so much different those 7 points.

Onto the next game, the scots playing flower of Scotland out on the road with the pipes. They were cheering on Scotland but told us they wanted us to win and sort of hoped we'd hammer them to deny Wales or England the win. They have gave a rendition of shoulder to shoulder on the pipes! The weather seemed to be replicated, the pub owner kept all the blinds up and windows open, it was a cracker out and it felt like a summers day and the pints were going down sweetly and Ireland were playing with pomp. Fitzgerald, Henshaw, O'Brien, OConnel, Sexton and Bowe were all putting in MoTM performances. A joy to watch. The innkeeper ringing the last orders bell for every score.

Then onto the absolute rollercoaster of a last game. The food almost in touch. The missed knock on. The too and fro score line. The innkeeper ringing the bell for every french score. The absolute madness at the end. I almost smashed a stool in my excitement, think I may have even gotten a wee bit emotional, my missus found that hilarious! Then Rte showing the presentation, it felt even sweeter than last year. The scots were delighted, the pub was in full swing now.

And then Rte showed Jurrassic Park.

There are few days you can really consider your best, but if I ever have kids or get married they'll do well to beat that!

.ak

Swiwi. wrote: »

Youngs was on fire yesterday but otherwise I thought Webb just edged Murray. I also can't make up my mind which fly half was best overall, probably just Sexton but Biggar was a vast improvement for Wales over Priestland and Ford had some lovely touches yesterday, especially the delayed pass for one of their latter tries. Joseph had another good game for England yesterday, although that French defence was fairly charitable.

Yeah biggar is a vastly underrated 10. He was ignored by gatland when he was in super form for Ospreys for years, he only got into the side through injury.

But for me, and I am biased, sexton was head and shoulders above the rest. Wales game aside he had a great tournament, he utterly dominated England France and Scotland, considering the midfield require time to gel and the way our backline game revolves around them I think sexton had to do a lot of babysitting. He did tremendously well all things considered and was the driving force behind Ireland being crowned champions.

Fords a great player potentially but he's inexperience showed for a lot of the tournament. He was quite poor for a lot of the tournament and was dire vs Ireland.

molloyjh

Wang King wrote: »

Mike Brown having a pop at Scotland and Italy, saying that France fronted up for the game and really put it up to them, unlike some other countries ....

In fairness in the pub we were all saying that about Italy just before Sartos try. We reckoned they not just handed Wales the title but also ruined what was due to be a great day. They were a disgrace for a good 35 minutes.

Billy86

Tox56 wrote: »

I think people are underestimating how good the current Ireland team is because Schmidt is so good. There was talk of golden generations during the 2000's and it's true there were a lot of great players then, but the team that started yesterday has top quality 1-15, certainly one of the best Irish teams we've ever seen imo. Back to back outright championships is a huge achievement, England have 1 since 2003

It's surely got to be our best group of forwards ever anyway, especially considering the strength in depth... right?

aimee1

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness in the pub we were all saying that about Italy just before Sartos try. We reckoned they not just handed Wales the title but also ruined what was due to be a great day. They were a disgrace for a good 35 minutes.

two men in the bin didnt help matters. They just fell apart a little earlier then expected.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

In fairness in the pub we were all saying that about Italy just before Sartos try. We reckoned they not just handed Wales the title but also ruined what was due to be a great day. They were a disgrace for a good 35 minutes.

And also, Mike Brown never actually had a pop at anyone. It's awful journalism.

Wang King

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And also, Mike Brown never actually had a pop at anyone. It's awful journalism.

He complimented France and said that France put in an effort compared to a few other countries. It's a definite pop alright.

irishbucsfan

Wang King wrote: »

He complimented France and said that France put in an effort compared to a few other countries. It's a definite pop alright.

When did he say "compared to a few other countries"?

I saw him compliment France, and then I saw a random journalist decide that this implied a criticism of other countries, because he didn't compliment everyone.

efb

Bus back to Stranraer from Ayr now. What a weekend. The women winning today was the icing on a very sweet cake!

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When did he say "compared to a few other countries"?

I saw him compliment France, and then I saw a random journalist decide that this implied a criticism of other countries, because he didn't compliment everyone.

Apologies, I just read another article and he said exactly that. I'm completely incorrect.

mfceiling

.ak wrote: »

Still getting over how good yesterday was. Spending the day in a pub in Killarney with absolutely beautiful weather, great pints, the place full of about 30 scots on tour, the bag pipes, the sheer craic, the first Italian try, then the lows of an awesome display of power from George North, quickly picked up by Sarto's try... The place went mad as if we won already, it just made the point difference feel so much different those 7 points.

Onto the next game, the scots playing flower of Scotland out on the road with the pipes. They were cheering on Scotland but told us they wanted us to win and sort of hoped we'd hammer them to deny Wales or England the win. They have gave a rendition of shoulder to shoulder on the pipes! The weather seemed to be replicated, the pub owner kept all the blinds up and windows open, it was a cracker out and it felt like a summers day and the pints were going down sweetly and Ireland were playing with pomp. Fitzgerald, Henshaw, O'Brien, OConnel, Sexton and Bowe were all putting in MoTM performances. A joy to watch. The innkeeper ringing the last orders bell for every score.

Then onto the absolute rollercoaster of a last game. The food almost in touch. The missed knock on. The too and fro score line. The innkeeper ringing the bell for every french score. The absolute madness at the end. I almost smashed a stool in my excitement, think I may have even gotten a wee bit emotional, my missus found that hilarious! Then Rte showing the presentation, it felt even sweeter than last year. The scots were delighted, the pub was in full swing now.

And then Rte showed Jurrassic Park.

There are few days you can really consider your best, but if I ever have kids or get married they'll do well to beat that!

I've done both and believe me neither of those are a patch on yesterday!!

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Apologies, I just read another article and he said exactly that. I'm completely incorrect.

F me. I'm bookmarking this post. I've seen everything now

Wang King

irishbucsfan wrote: »

When did he say "compared to a few other countries"?

I saw him compliment France, and then I saw a random journalist decide that this implied a criticism of other countries, because he didn't compliment everyone.

From sky

Wang King

mfceiling wrote: »

I've done both and believe me neither of those are a patch on yesterday!!

7 attempts at ivf beats yesterday..... But only just!

.ak

Rewatched the game again yesterday and not sure why people thought Kearney was poor? Thought he had a tidy shift. His positioning is just impeccable. He was nanoseconds away from a brilliant try. His decoy line for payne's try was blistering, the sort of thing that epitomises Schmidt's play book. Thought he played really well!

Mahatma Geansai

.ak wrote: »

Rewatched the game again yesterday and not sure why people thought Kearney was poor? Thought he had a tidy shift. His positioning is just impeccable. He was nanoseconds away from a brilliant try. His decoy line for payne's try was blistering, the sort of thing that epitomises Schmidt's play book. Thought he played really well!

He offers nothing in attack and was very poor for one of the Scotland tries.

Fireball07

I wasn't impressed with Kearney yesterday either. I'm normally a fairly big fan of his but he can be very frustrating at times. I think the way we were playing yesterday where we were running a lot of ball from deep would have suited someone like Payne better.

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

He offers nothing in attack and was very poor for one of the Scotland tries.

He wasn't the only one poor for that try.

He offers plenty in attack, maybe just not in the way you like? He's probably our best strike runner, is massively strong going into contact, scores plenty of tries for us and despite some popular myth he can actually pass well of both hands and near the try line is a deadly distributer.

None of that has to do with my point tho; he had a good game and I can't see why people are saying he was poor?

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

He offers nothing in attack and was very poor for one of the Scotland tries.

He offers a lot more than nothing in attack, but the reason he's in the team is that he fulfills the core duties of a fullback better than nearly anyone.

Although I thought Spedding was really excellent for France yesterday, If he maintains that level of performance he adds himself as yet another class full back to the European international sides, and Kearney is consistently at the top of that list (although is often criticised bizarrely, like Heaslip, which is puzzling).

rudiger2.0

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He offers a lot more than nothing in attack, but the reason he's in the team is that he fulfills the core duties of a fullback better than nearly anyone.

Although I thought Spedding was really excellent for France yesterday, If he maintains that level of performance he adds himself as yet another class full back to the European international sides, and Kearney is consistently at the top of that list (although is often criticised bizarrely, like Heaslip, which is puzzling).

Just a theory but, could this be because he's not been fielding as many of the spectacular catches from opposition kicks as he used to.

This could be down to him being so good at it that teams don't try it, which in itself is such a positive for Ireland, especially taking in to account how much yardage we made off kicking.

errlloyd

This is the most controversial thing I have ever said on this board.

Yesterday was a day of rugby that was so enjoyable I think it'll stick with me for the rest of my life, and I think it was pretty close to unique, I don't think we'll see another 6n finish like that for a long time. So I'm actually glad we lost to Wales. We only have 2 grand slams ever, and I know people looking at the record books in 50 years won't understand how remarkable yesterday was, but what an amazing few hours.

stephen_n

mfceiling wrote: »

I've done both and believe me neither of those are a patch on yesterday!!

Lucky your missus doesn't read this lol

Tox56

Kearney is underrated and he'll be most missed when he isn't there, but I do think he needs to watch his back. He is safe for now but long term if Payne gets a chance at 15 and impresses Kearney could be in trouble. We've got options in the centres and a lot of great attacking back 3 players to find a place for

At the same time I don't agree with whatever clamour there is for Payne to be our first choice 15 right now, he's never played there above club level, and at international level he will A) Have much less attacking space and Be given much more attention in the air, and he can't afford to be suspect there at all, it would massively impact how we play if he is

Swiwi.

errlloyd wrote: »

This is the most controversial thing I have ever said on this board.

Yesterday was a day of rugby that was so enjoyable I think it'll stick with me for the rest of my life, and I think it was pretty close to unique, I don't think we'll see another 6n finish like that for a long time. So I'm actually glad we lost to Wales. We only have 2 grand slams ever, and I know people looking at the record books in 50 years won't understand how remarkable yesterday was, but what an amazing few hours.

Just to be controverisal, I'm going to say there was more than a bit of the SH-esque about yesterday. The vast majority of fans across the various sites I looked at seemed delighted with the day's action, but the odd fan was complaining about too many tries, not enough defence, not being "real rugby". The main reason of course was the attitude of the teams in the scenario on offer, but I hope when the laws are reviewed after 2015 that the lawmakers ask what do people really want as a spectacle, and can the laws be amended to make that more likely to happen?

Like Tox56, I do expert somewhat of a revert to type for the RWC, even NZ in the 2011 final hardly played what you would call champagne rugby.

stephen_n

"One of Scotland's tries"? did I miss something? Clearly MG was watching a different game than the rest of us, which explains why he thinks Kearney had a poor game.

errlloyd

I feel rather than incentivise one type of rugby, competitions need to be structured to require different types of rugby. The reason the H/Cup is so good in my opinion is you have 9 games, 3 home pool, 3 away pool and 3 knockouts. Now in recent years it has been treated like 9 knockouts, but the current pool structure might make teams open the taps more.