politics cafe

LeeMajors

So, here we go with another one.


I want to appeal this latest, most ridiculous of infractions by johnnyskelton on a few grounds.

I've PM'd the mod in question and he told me to open this DRP thread.

First, here's the post I replied to,

"No they weren't.
If people were prepared to accept pain then there would have been no rise is the support for the populist clap trap that the likes of SF dole out.
No matter what is done people will never be pleased.
This govt has carried out reforms, they tried to abolish the upper house, they done away with a lot of local councils, they have tightened up on waste in the public sector and welfare fraud.
But of course it will never be enough for some.

And I don't think that they are just doing what FF would have done.
One thing that was a constant in the GE was FFs insistence that the terms of the bailout could not be changed.
Since then the interest rates, term of the loans, and the promissory notes have all been changed.
FF would not even have tried to get any of the above concessions"


I highlighted the word 'clap trap' because that's what I believe his post is by jumping from one point to the next with no real direction, and replied 'Hmmmm'.




Point 1. The moderator says that this thread is in the main political forum and not in the 'politics cafe - the lighter side of political debate'.

It's in the politics cafe.

Point 2. I replied, as one might do in a similar situation in a cafe, by using the word 'Hmmmm' i.e, "I don't agree but I'm not going to go through every single different point made as it would take all night" as one pensively strokes ones chin.

Point 3. The moderator cited his 'on thread' mod instruction and my ignoring that as the reason.

The mod warning read,
"MOD: Ok, before this gets out of hand, Phoebas says that the economy has recovered during their time and Tombo2001 agrees, but has asked whether there are any specific measures that FG positively did which encouraged this increase, or otherwise were good for the economy.

Let's either answer that question or debate whether being in power as the economy improved (a sort of steady hand at the tiller argument) is enough to judge them by.

But let's not have a back and forth of one liners or the thread will be closed"



So he asked to 'not have a back and forth of one liners'.
There was no 'back and forth' of one liners, several points were raised in one post to which I replied with one word.

I'd respectfully ask that this is reversed and that the mod in question is called in for a chat regarding the implementation of the rules a his issuing of frivolous infractions.

Thanks in advance once again,

Adam.

Taltos

Hi LeeMajors.

I will look into this for you. Will reply shortly.

Taltos.

LeeMajors

Taltos wrote: »

Hi LeeMajors.

I will look into this for you. Will reply shortly.

Taltos.

Hi Taltos,
As you may know I have some history on here and following on from from a chat with Dave (Mr.E) I've been doing my best to keep a clean record.
There's a couple of mods on the politics section who are very trigger happy when it comes to issuing warnings, infractions and bans to posters like myself with left leaning views.

It's becoming very obvious that this is the case because if you read through the threads in question you'll see that posters who cross the line by continually flaming and baiting and throwing personal abuse just have their posts deleted by the mods (so they can't then be seen when I raise it with admin) and a friendly on thread general warning issued.

Contrast that with the infractions and bans issued to people like myself and you can clearly see a pattern of 'one sided' moderation developing.

If it was my site, I would remove K9 and johnnyskelton from their moderating positions on the politics section and replace them with impartial moderators.
I would then make it my business to oversee the moderation in the political section in a more thorough fashion to ensure no bias.

That's just my thoughts on it, but I know that would take up a lot of admin time because of the nature of the political section especially with a GE looming.

Anyway, if this uncalled for card can be overturned, like some others have been on my account because they were OTT, it would be appreciated.

Regards,
Adam.


N.B. I've just noticed that that thread is now in the Politics main section. I was following it and on my screen yesterday it was in the 'politics cafe' section. Not sure if that makes a difference, indeed it makes me wonder when it was moved from there and why.

Taltos

Lee

Just so there's no misunderstanding.
The purpose of DRP is to challenge this card.
Discussions of moderation of other posters is taboo, it just isn't going to happen. Calls for the demod of not one but two mods is also not appropriate to DRP.

If you wish on resolution of this thread you may open a HelpDesk thread on general politics modding but we won't get into that here. I would always caution a poster to think long and hard before doing so.

My role is a simple one.
1 was mod action required?
2 was the action appropriate? - taking into account your prior contributions and the thread in general
3 are remediation actions required?
4 are there other factors to be considered?

Once I get there, if you accept my decision then grand. If not you have the right to seek an admin review of the card. Nothing more, nothing less. It will be later today before I get to this, RL has plans for me right now.

LeeMajors

Taltos wrote: »

Lee

Just so there's no misunderstanding.
The purpose of DRP is to challenge this card.
Discussions of moderation of other posters is taboo, it just isn't going to happen. Calls for the demod of not one but two mods is also not appropriate to DRP.

If you wish on resolution of this thread you may open a HelpDesk thread on general politics modding but we won't get into that here. I would always caution a poster to think long and hard before doing so.

My role is a simple one.
1 was mod action required?
2 was the action appropriate? - taking into account your prior contributions and the thread in general
3 are remediation actions required?
4 are there other factors to be considered?

Once I get there, if you accept my decision then grand. If not you have the right to seek an admin review of the card. Nothing more, nothing less. It will be later today before I get to this, RL has plans for me right now.

No problem Taltos.

I didn't realise we couldn't discuss the issuer of the infraction in question and moderation here.

Thanks,
Lee Majors.

Taltos

Thanks for your patience Lee.

LeeMajors wrote: »

Point 1. The moderator says that this thread is in the main political forum and not in the 'politics cafe - the lighter side of political debate'.

It's in the politics cafe.

Actually no it's not in the Cafe. It's in the main Politics forum - which as you know has a significantly higher standard than the relaxed Cafe.
But I think you know that as earlier today you've deleted some of your recent posts to the same thread. Possibly you thought it was in the Cafe but that is mere supposition on my part.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057399737&page=5

LeeMajors wrote: »

Point 2. I replied, as one might do in a similar situation in a cafe, by using the word 'Hmmmm' i.e, "I don't agree but I'm not going to go through every single different point made as it would take all night" as one pensively strokes ones chin.

Point 3. The moderator cited his 'on thread' mod instruction and my ignoring that as the reason.

As above this is the main forum - so #2 doesn't apply. Hmmmm might cut it in the Cafe or elsewhere and while I get totally what is meant by it, it does fall well below the standard of posting required in Politics.

#3 - the mod was spot on. Not only was this the main forum but an on thread warning had been issued. Once issued, mods have less discretion than normal on posts to let slide or not.

So - to my review above.
a) Was mod action required/justified?
> Yes, in my opinion it was.

b) As to is an infraction appropriate here or should it be upgraded/let stand/downgraded.
> I think had a mod warning not been in effect we might have seen your post snipped with a gentle poke to get back on track Lee, especially as the Admin have placed a 2 month good behaviour bond on you for Politics. As above though you really left the mod team with no choice here, which is sad as despite what you might think of them, the resounding mod feedback is they think you could be a good constructive contributor if you played by the rules and for the most part your input is generally welcomed due in part to your different views.

So my call now is this.
Infraction - justified & stands.
Admin are already aware of the card being issued during the 2 month probation.

Next steps - you have a decision to make:
a) Accept and discuss next steps with the admin team, suggest you simply PM the relevant admin.
OR
b) Don't accept my decision and request an escalation to Admin Review of the infraction.

Let me know which way you want to go.
Taltos

LeeMajors

Taltos wrote: »

Thanks for your patience Lee.


Actually no it's not in the Cafe. It's in the main Politics forum - which as you know has a significantly higher standard than the relaxed Cafe.
But I think you know that as earlier today you've deleted some of your recent posts to the same thread. Possibly you thought it was in the Cafe but that is mere supposition on my part.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057399737&page=5


As above this is the main forum - so #2 doesn't apply. Hmmmm might cut it in the Cafe or elsewhere and while I get totally what is meant by it, it does fall well below the standard of posting required in Politics.

#3 - the mod was spot on. Not only was this the main forum but an on thread warning had been issued. Once issued, mods have less discretion than normal on posts to let slide or not.

So - to my review above.
a) Was mod action required/justified?
> Yes, in my opinion it was.

b) As to is an infraction appropriate here or should it be upgraded/let stand/downgraded.
> I think had a mod warning not been in effect we might have seen your post snipped with a gentle poke to get back on track Lee, especially as the Admin have placed a 2 month good behaviour bond on you for Politics. As above though you really left the mod team with no choice here, which is sad as despite what you might think of them, the resounding mod feedback is they think you could be a good constructive contributor if you played by the rules and for the most part your input is generally welcomed due in part to your different views.

So my call now is this.
Infraction - justified & stands.
Admin are already aware of the card being issued during the 2 month probation.

Next steps - you have a decision to make:
a) Accept and discuss next steps with the admin team, suggest you simply PM the relevant admin.
OR
b) Don't accept my decision and request an escalation to Admin Review of the infraction.

Let me know which way you want to go.
Taltos

Hi Taltos,

But as I've explained, on my screen is was under the 'cafe' heading when I posted the single word 'Hmmmmm'.

You said yourself that using the word or expression 'Hmmmm' may be acceptable there.

And the mod direction, which btw I hadn't noticed until afterwards, was against a back and forth of one liners, not using one word in a reply.

I have no problem with the vast majority of moderators here, there's just a couple, one in particular who is obviously bring his personal politics into the threads he moderates, which is a pity really.

I'd ask you once again to reconsider this one, especially with a view towards the general warning I was given.

I appreciate your other comments regarding the mod team.

Regards,
Adam.

Taltos

Hi Lee

I am not sure why your screen is showing Cafe.
The thread is clearly in the main forum, no two ways around it.

As to not seeing the mod direction, while unfortunate it isn't a defense and irrespective a one liner response is still alot more than a single "hmmmm". As above, had you posted as you did in a thread without that warning I am fairly certain you would have been given some leniency by the team but for them to have acted otherwise here in regards to your post wouldn't have been acceptable.

As above - if you want to accept this we'll close this thread and I suggest you don't wait to be contacted but instead reach out to the admin asap, as I said the offline opinion of the mod team is that you have the potential to be a great poster here and possibly the admin will take that into consideration, but I really have no idea to be honest, as normally prob'ies avoid any reason to come to mod attention.

However - if you still don't want to accept this then I'll bump it up the chain for Admin review.

LeeMajors

Taltos wrote: »

Hi Lee

I am not sure why your screen is showing Cafe.
The thread is clearly in the main forum, no two ways around it.

As to not seeing the mod direction, while unfortunate it isn't a defense and irrespective a one liner response is still alot more than a single "hmmmm". As above, had you posted as you did in a thread without that warning I am fairly certain you would have been given some leniency by the team but for them to have acted otherwise here in regards to your post wouldn't have been acceptable.

As above - if you want to accept this we'll close this thread and I suggest you don't wait to be contacted but instead reach out to the admin asap, as I said the offline opinion of the mod team is that you have the potential to be a great poster here and possibly the admin will take that into consideration, but I really have no idea to be honest, as normally prob'ies avoid any reason to come to mod attention.

However - if you still don't want to accept this then I'll bump it up the chain for Admin review.

The point is it was in the cafe when I made my one word comment 'Hmmmm' and you've conceded that it probably would have been acceptable there.

The second point is there was no 'back and forth' of one line posts going against the mod instruction on the previous page.

I think at this stage I'll ask for admin to review the case, as I'm trying to keep a clean slate and frivolous mod actions like these are preventing me from doing that.

Thanks for your help and perhaps you can explain where this goes now?

Regards,
Adam.

Taltos

OK - I'll flag it for admin review right now.

They'll take it from here.

Gordon

LeeMajors wrote: »

The point is it was in the cafe

It wasn't, it was never in the Cafe, mod logs show no threads moved. I believe your post was intended to cause annoyance, essentially trolling.

I know you've had a trial period with Mr E after your Prison thread regarding your previous account so I've looked at your 3 infractions/warnings since your Prison thread and a variety of your posts and I don't see any visible attempt to tone down your posts. That thread in Prison was regarding your other account DeJa VooDoo, but that's not the whole truth.

The whole truth is that you have had at least 4 accounts:

leemajors
DeJa VooDoo
Tinkersbell
Fr. Ned

These four accounts, in the space of 15 months, have achieved (ignoring sitebans):

Perma Bans: 2
Temp Bans: 14
Infractions: 25
Warnings: 14

This is 55 actions / which is well over 3 per month / via 11 Mods.

You are a massive timesink on our volunteer mods, and I believe you are not changing your style to an acceptable level in order to participate in discussions on this website.

I'm sitebanning you permanently and asking that you don't come back, because you're not welcome here.