issue with Aviva

CiDeRmAn

Hi,
Just want to get an opinion here of an issue that has arisen with Aviva Health.
Just over a year so I realised that the premium I was paying for health insurance, some €360 per month, was too much so at renewal I phoned them up and arranged a lower priced plan, some €200 less in fact.
I followed all the steps the gentleman asked of me and relaxed when the Aviva Health cards arrived in the post, confirming we were covered.
I paid no more heed to the matter until 12 months later when in pops post from Aviva detailing the renewal of two Aviva Health polices on the same three people.
I rang them up and it turns out they never discontinued the original policy though the cheaper policy had never drawn down payments.
They said they would investigate immediately.
A couple of days later they started calling my wife, as we are both on the policy to be called in such cases, and out pressure to accept that the new policy had not been enacted so no money was owed.
The person on the line informed my wife that the call was being recorded and that would she accept that no money was owed as result of the cheaper policy not being paid for over the previous year.
My wife refused to be drawn into a binding agreement over the phone and instead informed them she would have to discuss it with me.
So, where do we stand?
I feel they agreed to decrease our payments and they then failed to do so at our request, and with their agreement, 12 months ago and, as a result, they owe us about €2000 in overcharges.
Am I right?
I know I was foolish not to have noted the higher sum being withdrawn from my account on a monthly basis but that really isn't the issue here, their mistake is, and Aviva appear to be trying to paper over it.
Or am I wrong?
How should I proceed?

phormium

Ask them to produce a transcript of your telephone call arranging the lower cover, I presume all their calls start with the same speech about all calls being recorded etc, that should clear up what was agreed.

If they are wrong then they should pay you back what you overpaid.

CiDeRmAn

They confirmed that the alternate cover was arranged but maintain it was all online and over the phone.
I think that gives me plenty of grounds to expect the balance refunded.
We didn't actually use the policy at any time last year, so even that isn't a defence.
Fingers crossed, come next week, they will admit fault and I can get back the money I'm owed.
I'm sorely tempted to cancel my cover with them and go with an alternate provider at this point.

dudara

Did the documentation you received a year ago have any price information on it?

CiDeRmAn

dudara wrote: »

Did the documentation you received a year ago have any price information on it?

I'll have to go through my records
Thanks

d9oiu2wk07blr5

Also bear in mind that if you were on a new lower priced plan, Aviva should have sent you out a new membership card for that plan.

nava

Douglas Poor Ace wrote: »

Also bear in mind that if you were on a new lower priced plan, Aviva should have sent you out a new membership card for that plan.

Looks like they got those new cards from what I can read on the OP

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I followed all the steps the gentleman asked of me and relaxed when the Aviva Health cards arrived in the post, confirming we were covered.

I think that is on your side as why would they send you new cards if you were not on it. Also what plan can you see online for you?

Looks like a admin issue in their side.

CiDeRmAn

Just got off a protracted phone call with Aviva.
And it's all royally screwed up.
They got one DD from me a year ago on the policy I asked for cancelled, on seeing that the bank refused the DD on the new policy.
And then the cancelled policy was stopped as well.
No notification from either bank or Aviva that DD's had stopped and that no payments were received.
Not until I phoned about the double renewal letters anyway.
As a result they say I now owe them arrears on the newer policy of €1,900.
And they kindly offered to call back to arrange a payment schedule.
I said that none of this was my fault.
My account had ample funding for the DD's and that I wasn't notified of the error.
They said it was my responsibility to make sure payments were made, including direct debits.
I said that, seeing as neither policy was paid for and no claims were made over the past year, why not simply see both of them cancelled from last March, seeing as the cancelled policy was confirmed and the newer one never paid for.
They said that they did in fact receive the single payment in March, the first one received in error, and as a result I would possibly incur a mid term cancellation fee.
I explained that this was a payment that Aviva took in error, a payment on the earlier cancelled policy, and so couldn't count as a payment onto that scheme.
He then informed me that he could give no guarantees about how that approach might work, and said that my previous history with the health insurer, over 15 years, might count for nothing if I cancelled out and went to another insurer.

What a big stupid mess, and one I really could have done without.
I blame Aviva for not informing me of an issue with my policy payments, I blame myself for not knowing one direct debit from another too.

What to do now though?
I think I'll make an appointment to see Citizens Advice and get some direction on this.
One thing is for sure, I don't have a handy €1,900 lying around to pay them

whomitconcerns

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

<SNIP> Please don't quote full long posts. It's tough on mobile viewers

Sounds a right mess, but how did you not notice that you werent paying 350 a month on DD for your insurance for a year?

Anyway ignoring that ask for the recordings and see what fully transpired

CiDeRmAn

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Sounds a right mess, but how did you not notice that you werent paying 350 a month on DD for your insurance for a year?

Anyway ignoring that ask for the recordings and see what fully transpired

Oh, I know the mess.
I saw the initial payment and didn't think about it again.
No communication about the failed direct debit, from either bank or health insurer.
They are saying that the initial payment to the old policy was an error and that the new policy never went into effect due to non payment, due to the bank seeing the initial payment and thinking Aviva made a mistake.
By my reckoning that means I had no actual paid cover last year, though no claims were made of any kind.
And this gives me grounds to say that, effectively, I had no active health cover for the last year at all, neither the new policy that wasn't paid for at €140 a month, or the old policy that was costing me €290 a month but only had an initial payment and that was a mistaken one.
A fine mess indeed.

jlm29

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Oh, I know the mess.
I saw the initial payment and didn't think about it again.
No communication about the failed direct debit, from either bank or health insurer.
They are saying that the initial payment to the old policy was an error and that the new policy never went into effect due to non payment, due to the bank seeing the initial payment and thinking Aviva made a mistake.
By my reckoning that means I had no actual paid cover last year, though no claims were made of any kind.
And this gives me grounds to say that, effectively, I had no active health cover for the last year at all, neither the new policy that wasn't paid for at €140 a month, or the old policy that was costing me €290 a month but only had an initial payment and that was a mistaken one.
A fine mess indeed.

True you had no health cover, and if you keep at it, you might get away with it- but since you will have a good long break in cover, you'll have to serve waiting periods again- depending on your age, and general health, this might not suit you.

MOH

When you cancel a DD you can either cancel that specific DD, or blacklist the company and prevent any future DDs from them as well.

(I had the opposite problem, where I cancelled a DD to Meteor and they just set up a new DD without my permission. Had to go into the bank and sign a form to blacklist them and prevent them setting up any future DDs.)

Sounds like the bank might have blacklisted them instead of just cancelling that one DD?
Although it'd be odd if they did so without you signing the paperwork.

CiDeRmAn

I didn't cancel any dd, the representative was supposed to have sorted it all out .
In fact it was the erroneous single direct debit that caused the whole calamity, with it paying for a cancelled plan rather than the replacement one that was cheaper.
When the bank saw it they stopped the second proper payment to the agreed health insurance plan, and then nothing was coming out if my account.
And so I'm in the mess I'm in now.
I can tell them to simply assume no cover for the past year or I can pay the arrears of nearly 2k in top of this years premiums.
Madness.
Might take the opportunity to switch providers at this point.
Seeing as my family will be screwed no matter what I do.

Sparko

Have you contacted your bank, or could Aviva just be trying to use them as a bit of a scapegoat to offload blame?

It's just that I've never heard of a bank taking it upon themselves to stop a direct debit, from their point of view how would they know it is not correct?

daheff

Ok, so as far as I can see the following happened

OP asked to change policy cover from one costing 360 pm to 160pm
OP cancelled old policy
OP got new policy cards in the post
Aviva collected 360 pm from them for the last year.

So if this is the case I would see that Aviva had entered a contract with you and had received payment (Even if it was too much). Therefore from what I can see you had a fully valid contract in place.....but Aviva overcharged you.

Don't take any guff off them about DDs failing. They collected money from you. As long as you see money coming out at the same time as normal how are you to know Aviva had set up a new DD (theres no need for them to in any case).

Aviva have overcharged you and owe you a refund for the overcharged amount. Had they not contacted you during the year for payment issues it implies they saw all in order for your policy. Similar sending out a policy renewal letter implies they had you covered.

ohnonotgmail

daheff wrote: »

<SNIP> Please don't quote full long posts

I may have read this incorrectly but i dont think Aviva have taken any money for the last year. They took one payment for the old policy and then stopped as the policy was cancelled. they never took money for the new policy.

CiDeRmAn

Apparently they didn't stop old policy when new policy started.
Then old policy took its 1st installment from my bank ac.
Then, the next day new policy tried to take it's 1st installment, as both were concurrent.
The bank saw this as an error and stopped the latter payment, andn triggered a mechanism stopping all Aviva payments.
As this was not a default issue Aviva's system did not trigger a notification to the customer, me.
So nothing was paid but the two health insurance policies were active for 2014 into 15.
And now Aviva want either 2k in arrears paid or for we both to say no policy was active in 2014/15 and a new policy to take effect, though new Health insurance rules will apply, such as no cover for pre existing conditions for 5 years.
Well, they say that's the worst case scenario.
I spoke to Citizens Advice this morning and rang Aviva from their office, seems they are investigating and there may be other ways to sort this out.
I think it likely that we will both accept mistakes were made and I'll elect to pay half the arrears over 3 years for example, whilst undertaking to stay with them, as a customer, at least until the arrears is paid.
Or something, I don't know.
It'll be another 5 weeks or so until their own investigation is completed.

Toots

Just out of interest, has your bank confirmed that this is what happened with the Direct Debit?

CiDeRmAn

Toots wrote: »

Just out of interest, has your bank confirmed that this is what happened with the Direct Debit?

I haven't spoken to them yet, that's a call for tomorrow morning.
I'll probably make an appointment to go in and sit down with them, work through the mess.

I can see myself paying back arrears, but not the entire sum as this is Aviva's mess as well as mine.
I'll accept 50% of the blame, it's not as if they were caught with any charges from my family last year.
Pay it back at €50 a month until it's cleared.

Toots

It'll be interesting to see how it looks from the bank's end. It sounds a bit like Aviva are trying to pass the buck.

daheff

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Apparently they didn't stop old policy when new policy started.
Then old policy took its 1st installment from my bank ac.
Then, the next day new policy tried to take it's 1st installment, as both were concurrent.
The bank saw this as an error and stopped the latter payment, andn triggered a mechanism stopping all Aviva payments.
As this was not a default issue Aviva's system did not trigger a notification to the customer, me.
So nothing was paid but the two health insurance policies were active for 2014 into 15.
.

Well that's a whole different ball game then.

So 1st instalment for the year of the old policy was taken but nothing else! If you don't have any pre-existing conditions then it might be best to have the whole thing cancelled (and refunded the first instalment). Just be clear how long the waiting times are for new conditions. If its short and you are young it might be worth your while.

If you don't want the cover cancelled, then as far as I can see you owe then the full amount (less the 1st incorrect instalment) for the policy you agreed. I seriously doubt they will accept you only paying 50%. What I don't understand is why they didn't contact you to say your DDs were bouncing!

I'd also talk with your bank and ask them why they didn't contact you before declining Aviva DDs. Its not their decision on cancelling DDs. For all they knew you could have had 2 separate policies in place for which Aviva took funds on 2 DDs. I'd give your bank a boll'cking over this.

MOH

daheff wrote: »

I'd also talk with your bank and ask them why they didn't contact you before declining Aviva DDs. Its not their decision on cancelling DDs. For all they knew you could have had 2 separate policies in place for which Aviva took funds on 2 DDs. I'd give your bank a boll'cking over this.

I'd second this. If they're not just using the bank as an excuse, then the bank certainly shouldn't be cancelling DDs off their own bat without notifying you.

CiDeRmAn

It was resolved this morning.
A gentleman from Aviva called and said that, upon investigation, they accepted that a notification letter should have been sent upon the direct debit issue arising.
With this in mind, and in order to maintain the cover over the previous year and into the current one they described the arrears as €2000 but they'd accept all bar €950 of the figure, to be paid over the coming year.
I was pleasantly surprised by their willingness to come to a reasonable conclusion and have accepted the arrangement.
Thanks for the help and support here.
And thanks too to Citizens Information who gave good advice as well.