Reputable places to get Puppy

Gael23

Nt quite there just yet but at the same time we are starting to get thoughts on getting a new Puppy in the not so distant future.
The rescue route doesn't appeal to us for a number of reasons although if those <snip> Puppies come available they could be an option.

Aside from that what other reputable places are there to get one? Last time we were put in touch with an IKC breeder by a friend but that was 15 years ago so I'm sure things have changed a little, I know people on here slate DoneDeal at every opportunity but my own opinion has always been buyer beware so its not something I believe should be totally avoided either.

andreac

If you are looking for a certain breed then contact the specific breed club and get Information on breeders through there.

Just ensure your breeder health tests both parents and do not go near a breeder that doesn't.

The Ikc will also give you information and contacts.

DBB

Folks,
Please take care not to mention any specific rescues on-thread: if you want to make recommendations, please do so by PM.
OP, can you verify whether you're happy to consider suggestions of rescues by PM?
Thanks,
DBB

Gael23

DBB wrote: »

Folks,
Please take care not to mention any specific rescues on-thread: if you want to make recommendations, please do so by PM.
OP, can you verify whether you're happy to consider suggestions of rescues by PM?
Thanks,
DBB

I mentioned earlier that we are not so keen on going that route but I have no problem wih getting PMs

tk123

Gael23 wrote: »

I mentioned earlier that we are not so keen on going that route but I have no problem wih getting PMs

Actually there's a typo in your post so it wasn't clear(!)

For Lucy I called the breed club and they gave me 2 or 3 breeders names and a guideline of when the puppies would be ready. After talking to breeder I was fairly sure we'd be going with her, met Lucy's mum at the door and she was beautiful and so calm and relaxed (I checked our her dad online ) so I was even more sure and then once we saw the puppies and myself and the breeder informally interviewed each other we picked our Lucy girl!

Exciting times ahead for you Gael23!!

kev1.3s

Done deal does get slated and rightfully in some reasons but I bought my dog from done deal and have to say it was spot on. The puppy came from a loving family home where both mother and father could be seen and in that situation anybody who has an issue with it is bieng more than a little anal, I have also seen puppy's reared in appalling conditions and fully agree with anybody who would criticise these places.
As you said it's simply a case of buyer beware, if you're unhappy with the conditions walk away and find a better breeder.

ABajaninCork

kev1.3s wrote: »

Done deal does get slated and rightfully in some reasons but I bought my dog from done deal and have to say it was spot on. The puppy came from a loving family home where both mother and father could be seen and in that situation anybody who has an issue with it is bieng more than a little anal, I have also seen puppy's reared in appalling conditions and fully agree with anybody who would criticise these places.
As you said it's simply a case of buyer beware, if you're unhappy with the conditions walk away and find a better breeder.

Same here. Being new to Ireland at the time, I certainly wasn't aware of DD's reputation. But I've had a fair few dogs and knew enough to ask to see the sire and dam, and check the conditions for ourselves. My dog came from a DD breeder. But we saw the facilities the pups were kept in and the breeders were very fair. The pups were in fantastic condition and looked great. We didn't go there to get a dog for ourselves though. Our dog was originally supposed to be a 21st birthday present for my husband's niece. But once the puppy was placed in my arms, he wouldn't come out! So that's why we got the dog...

tk123

Just to add wherever you go make sure both parents have the relevant health checks no matter what the conditions are like and what the breeder says to you.

forgodssake

I too bought my puppy on done deal , came from a wonderful home you could see they genuinely loved the pups. They were well cared for vaccinated and wormed and most important for me were kept indoors in a lovely comfortable bed . I would have no hesitation going down this route again . You just need to exercise caution and initiative . Best of luck whatever you decide to do.

tk123

Context would be useful here imo with people saying they bought from DD and everything is great. What kinds of dogs are they as certain "breeds" will only be available on DD at the end of the day?

forgodssake

Well my puppy was a Yorkshire terrier.

beyondbelief67

Bought 2 dogs on done deal, and with 2 totally different results.
The first we had to go to dungarvan but just half way there the guy phoned us back he'd forgotten he had an appointment could he meet us half way ?
I was all for saying no, but my ex said he'd not driven all that way for nothing, so little while later we had the cutest puppy, and heading home, once we got home we realized she was also the thinnest I'd ever seen too, naturally the guy had switched his phone off but the vet assured us she'd be fine and she is.
The next the lady couldn't of been nicer. And the cheeky little pup I have backs it up, yes he's a mongrel but couldn't resist his cheeky face.
So it has its good and bad like any site.

MrWalsh

Sorry guys, but anyone who buys a dog on Done Deal is contributing to puppy farming at worst and back yard breeding at best.

No legitimate breeder is selling a dog on Done Deal.

Gael23

tk123 wrote: »

Actually there's a typo in your post so it wasn't clear(!)

For Lucy I called the breed club and they gave me 2 or 3 breeders names and a guideline of when the puppies would be ready. After talking to breeder I was fairly sure we'd be going with her, met Lucy's mum at the door and she was beautiful and so calm and relaxed (I checked our her dad online ) so I was even more sure and then once we saw the puppies and myself and the breeder informally interviewed each other we picked our Lucy girl!

Exciting times ahead for you Gael23!!

Only noticed my mistake now that you pointed it out, autocorrect isn't all its cracked up to be!
Its 10 weeks now since our Dog died and some of us are feeling ready to do it so its just a matter of winning everyone else over, which I'm sure will happen in time.

borderlinemeath

For the majority of DoneDeal pups, if you asked the breeders if the sire and dam had relevant health checks, you would most likely get the answer that they've been vet checked and have current vaccs and are (possibly) IKC registered.

But health checks are NOT vet checks, they are breed specific checks for relevant genetic and inherited disorders associated with the breed you're interested in. Depending on what particular breed you're interested in, ie if you want a labrador or a retriever, the parents MUST have hip scores. This means they must have xrays to determine the hip scores, and of course this is going to increase the purchase price of the pup.

It's great to be able to see the pups in the home of the breeder, and ensure that the parent(s) are healthy confident dogs but if the breeder hasn't tested for breed specific ailments, particularly if the breed is one that is well known to be problematic in specific hereditary conditions, then it's best to err caution.

Research the breed you want, and not just their lifestyle, but what the health issues associated with the breed are, and if the breeder isn't knowledgeable about their health issues, then walk away. Chances are they have just bred two dogs of the same breed without a thought for whether the sire and dam are compatible, whether they might both be sufferers of a specific ailment and the resultant pups could cost far, far more in the long run with vet bills than the initial outlay on the pup if you went with a breeder who was thorough and health tested to ensure the best possible health for their litter.

Just look at last Thursdays episode of the Supervet to see how bad breeding can afflict a dog with bad health. A six month old GSD had to be PTS because not only did he have elbow dysplasia in his front legs but hip dysplasia in his back legs, it wouldn't have been right to put a pup through surgery on every limb, :(not to mention the cost if you just had to deal with one or two limbs.

beyondbelief67

MrWalsh wrote: »

Sorry guys, but anyone who buys a dog on Done Deal is contributing to puppy farming at worst and back yard breeding at best.

No legitimate breeder is selling a dog on Done Deal.

Not always ! The lady who we bought my puppy of had only that litter of puppies, and he's a mongrel, so certainly not out to make profit !
It's simply the easiest way for some people to sell puppies.
Not just for profit maker's.

Gael23

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Bought 2 dogs on done deal, and with 2 totally different results.
The first we had to go to dungarvan but just half way there the guy phoned us back he'd forgotten he had an appointment could he meet us half way ?
I was all for saying no, but my ex said he'd not driven all that way for nothing, so little while later we had the cutest puppy, and heading home, once we got home we realized she was also the thinnest I'd ever seen too, naturally the guy had switched his phone off but the vet assured us she'd be fine and she is.
The next the lady couldn't of been nicer. And the cheeky little pup I have backs it up, yes he's a mongrel but couldn't resist his cheeky face.
So it has its good and bad like any site.

Don't mean this in a bad way but if I was offered to meet halfway I would see red immediately, also pups advertised cheap or free would set alarm bells ringing because they are unlikely to have received vaccines ,etc.

beyondbelief67

Gael23 wrote: »

Don't mean this in a bad way but if I was offered to meet halfway I would see red immediately, also pups advertised cheap or free would set alarm bells ringing because they are unlikely to have received vaccines ,etc.

Wasn't free either time. My little pup is half Scotty x Jack Russell he was 120 euros and our other girl was 250 euros, full bred. Setter And like I said I didn't want to but as I wasn't the one driving had no choice hence the word my ex.

forgodssake

I understand buying pets from done deal is controversial and I see point from both sides of argument . All I know is I got a beautiful puppy from a home I felt he was well looked after. There is horrible disingenuine people on done deal just making profit but there is some genuine people too.

Gael23

forgodssake wrote: »

I understand buying pets from done deal is controversial and I see point from both sides of argument . All I know is I got a beautiful puppy from a home I felt he was well looked after. There is horrible disingenuine people on done deal just making profit but there is some genuine people too.

Thats how I see it and I can see how it can be difficult to separate the good from bad. We lost a purebred cocker spaniel 10 weeks ago now so will probably just get another one or maybe a spaniel crossbreed when the time is right.
Do you generally pay significantly more going to an IKC breeder? We paid 150 pounds 15 years ago and they seem to be €300+ from what I've seen on Donegal so I imagine for a registered breeder its more than that.

forgodssake

I presume you pay more I really don't know tbh. I just know I gave my puppy a good home. And I'm sure many other pets were welcomed into loving homes from "back yard " breeders .

andreac

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Not always ! The lady who we bought my puppy of had only that litter of puppies, and he's a mongrel, so certainly not out to make profit !
It's simply the easiest way for some people to sell puppies.
Not just for profit maker's.

Back yard breeder so. These people are not reputable breeders. No reputable breeder breeds mongrels.
But she would have made a profit by breeding a litter of pups this way as no health checks etc would have been in place.

borderlinemeath

forgodssake wrote: »

I presume you pay more I really don't know tbh. I just know I gave my puppy a good home. And I'm sure many other pets were welcomed into loving homes from "back yard " breeders .

And so continues the cycle. If people continue to buy and facilitate the profit of back yard breeders and puppy farmers, then they will continue to breed.

andreac

The difference between good and bad breeders will be health tests. That is all. If a breeder does not have the relevant health tests done eg hip or elbow scoring, heart tests, eye tests, then they are just back yard breeders. Simple as.

DBB

forgodssake wrote: »

I just know I gave my puppy a good home. And I'm sure many other pets were welcomed into loving homes from "back yard " breeders .

Hmmmm... I do appreciate that some people have had good experiences, and generally they're people who knew how to really screen the breeder and make sure they were okay.
Please be aware that when I refer to "you" in the following lines, it's not you forgodssake, it's "you" as in "everyone who thinks that it's okay if the pups get a good home"... a general "you"!
Giving a "back yard bred" pup a good home is only half the story, and I'm only posting this here lest the other half of the story be forgotten.
The other half is the mother and the father of the back-yard bred puppy. The money from every pup that is bought from a back-yard breeder is used to fuel the almost always miserable lives of the parents, especially the mothers, and future broodstock when the parents of your pup are spent.
I run a rescue for a breed that was exceptionally popular as a back-yard/puppy farmed breed over the past 10-15 years, thank goodness they've gone off the boil now, but just be aware that myself, and people like me, have taken in countless spent females and males from back yard breeders. If you saw the state these dogs are in in terms of health, and more often behaviourally, you'd quickly change your mind about how giving a back-yard bred puppy a good home is the whole story.
There is a whole industry behind every puppy that's produced, and in all cases of "backyard bred" pups, the broodstock dogs are rather close to the end of the list of the breeders' priorities.

Gael23

forgodssake wrote: »

I presume you pay more I really don't know tbh. I just know I gave my puppy a good home. And I'm sure many other pets were welcomed into loving homes from "back yard " breeders .

Theres rarely litters advertised on the cocker spaniel club website but that dissent mean there aren't any being bred I suppose. They don't list prices either but I know someone that paid €600 for one some time ago which would be out of the question for us, regardless of breed ethics.

Gael23

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Wasn't free either time. My little pup is half Scotty x Jack Russell he was 120 euros and our other girl was 250 euros, full bred. Setter And like I said I didn't want to but as I wasn't the one driving had no choice hence the word my ex.

I wasn't referring to you when i mentioned price but just that when you see ads with either free to good home or a very low price, you can almost be assured that the pups haven't received proper care.

andreac

Gael you would be better off saving for your pup for longer and go to a reputable breeder. 600 is cheap for a pedigree pup.

You will end up paying In the long run if you just get a cheap pup that's not coming from health tested parents. Trust me. I've seen first hand the affects on a dog who was from a back yard breeder and trust me it's not nice. It's always the dog that suffers whether it's through illnesses or hip dysplasia etc.
If you can't afford a pup from a good breeder then either save for longer or rescue but do not just buy a pup cheap.

forgodssake

DBB wrote:

Hmmmm... I do appreciate that some people have had good experiences, and generally they're people who knew how to really screen the breeder and make sure they were okay. Please be aware that when I refer to "you" in the following lines, it's not you forgodssake, it's "you" as in "everyone who thinks that it's okay if the pups get a good home"... a general "you"! Giving a "back yard bred" pup a good home is only half the story, and I'm only posting this here lest the other half of the story be forgotten. The other half is the mother and the father of the back-yard bred puppy. The money from every pup that is bought from a back-yard breeder is used to fuel the almost always miserable lives of the parents, especially the mothers, and future broodstock when the parents of your pup are spent. I run a rescue for a breed that was exceptionally popular as a back-yard/puppy farmed breed over the past 10-15 years, thank goodness they've gone off the boil now, but just be aware that myself, and people like me, have taken in countless spent females and males from back yard breeders. If you saw the state these dogs are in in terms of health, and more often behaviourally, you'd quickly change your mind about how giving a back-yard bred puppy a good home is the whole story. There is a whole industry behind every puppy that's produced, and in all cases of "backyard bred" pups, the broodstock dogs are rather close to the end of the list of the breeders' priorities.

Totally see where your coming from. I abhor the mistreatment and abuse of animals.

Gael23

andreac wrote: »

Gael you would be better off saving for your pup for longer and go to a reputable breeder. 600 is cheap for a pedigree pup.

You will end up paying In the long run if you just get a cheap pup that's not coming from health tested parents. Trust me. I've seen first hand the affects on a dog who was from a back yard breeder and trust me it's not nice. It's always the dog that suffers whether it's through illnesses or hip dysplasia etc.
If you can't afford a pup from a good breeder then either save for longer or rescue but do not just buy a pup cheap.

We wont rush into it either way and I do understand what you say. We paid £150 in 2000 so thats quite a jump, although I suppose it is to be expected. To be honest apart from browsing DD, we haven't made proper enquires as its not quite the right time just yet. Prices there seem to range from €250-400

peasant

If you want a pure bred pup that comes from parents that have all the relevant health checks done, bred by somebody who knows what they're doing, born into a good environment and that already has basic socialisation and health checks/vacs done ...you're not going to get it for done deal prices (and hence not on done deal)

If you're buying a pure bred pup on done deal, regardless of what the ad says ...most or all of the above haven't been done.

Best case scenario your pup will still end up healthy and with no issues ...highly unlikely though with a breed that has issues (which theses days most of them do).
Worst case scenario you've just financed an unscrupulous back yard breeder for another 3-6 months (until the next litter), contributed to the misery of the broodstock and ended up with a sickly pup that will cost you loads in money and grief.

Where done deal works is for mongrels (genuine ones, not the ones with made up names) and other similar "accidents" . People had pups by accident not design and need to find good homes for them. It is fair to give them some money (food, meds, time invested) but genuine people will ask for none or just very little.
Here of course you get pot luck ...nobody knows what the finished dog will look like, what its most likely behaviour will be or if it will be healthy or not.
Then again ...mongrels usually are healthier than pure breeds and the socialisation and education of your pup will not be influenced by preconceived ideas of how your dog should react (according to breed standard) so it's really in your hands and your fault if it goes wrong

Here's one such mongrel from done deal ...happy and healthy and just fabulous....and he cost less than his first bag of food
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93899130&postcount=9580

tk123

Gael23 wrote: »

We wont rush into it either way and I do understand what you say. We paid £150 in 2000 so thats quite a jump, although I suppose it is to be expected. To be honest apart from browsing DD, we haven't made proper enquires as its not quite the right time just yet. Prices there seem to range from €250-400

It's not THAT much of a jump really though it? You paid approx €190 15 years ago - add say €20 inflation a year = €490 in total. Trust me the extra few hundred euro could save you a lot of time and money in blood sweat and tears. Even with health insurance if the dog had health problems there's the time you need to take off for vet visits and all the little extra bits and pieces that go along with it, not to mention the blood, sweat and tears that go into trying to fix all the problems and medical problems are a lot easier to sort in my experience than behavioural problem

And it's not just limited to pedigrees - cross breeds can have problems too. I remember very early on being given a smug lecture by a guy in our park telling me that's why he'd never but pedigree dog and got a crossbreed instead blah blah blah....his dog is crippled now from snapped cruciates.

odckdo

Gael23 wrote: »

Thats how I see it and I can see how it can be difficult to separate the good from bad. We lost a purebred cocker spaniel 10 weeks ago now so will probably just get another one or maybe a spaniel crossbreed when the time is right.

Just to say going the IKC/pure bred way doesn't mean you are guaranteed a pup with perfect health and personality.

*Some* IKC cocker spaniel breeders I have dealt with will offload a pup as quickly as possible. No breeder wants to be left with pups. You will need to research beforehand and maybe bring someone with you who has good experience of dogs and knows what to look for.

I found a post on boards years ago suggesting that the quality of cockers in Ireland is not of a good standard. The UK could be another option but obviously more hassle. http://www.champdogs.co.uk/

Recently 'Dogs First' posted on FB his bad experience of getting a cocker pup from a IKC breeder:-
https://www.facebook.com/DogsFirstIreland/posts/883081881755189

EDIT: another option would be a working cocker rather than a show type?

Lemlin

odckdo wrote: »

Just to say going the IKC/pure bred way doesn't mean you are guaranteed a pup with perfect health and personality.

*Some* IKC cocker spaniel breeders I have dealt with will offload a pup as quickly as possible. No breeder wants to be left with pups. You will need to research beforehand and maybe bring someone with you who has good experience of dogs and knows what to look for.

I found a post on boards years ago suggesting that the quality of cockers in Ireland is not of a good standard. The UK could be another option but obviously more hassle. http://www.champdogs.co.uk/

Recently 'Dogs First' posted on FB his bad experience of getting a cocker pup from a IKC breeder:-
https://www.facebook.com/DogsFirstIreland/posts/883081881755189

EDIT: another option would be a working cocker rather than a show type?

I'm glad someone pointed it out because I've been watching this thread with interest.

I've seen posters push the breed clubs but can anyone confirm if every single breeder recommended by a breed club has completed the relevant health checks on their dogs before breeding?

Because I can confirm being given breeder details and contacting breeders to find their dogs did not have health checks yet they were still charging €600-€650.

In one case, a woman rather embarrassingly told me she didn't even show her own dog but was charging same because she had signed a contract with the previous breeder of the mother stating she had to charge at least €600 to not devalue the line. Her dog had not been hip scored or eye tested.

I ended up going to NI for a dog then as the standard offered in ROI was so poor for the prices charged. For me the one driving factor for the "reputable breeders" I was being pointed to was profit.

MrWalsh wrote: »

Sorry guys, but anyone who buys a dog on Done Deal is contributing to puppy farming at worst and back yard breeding at best.

No legitimate breeder is selling a dog on Done Deal.

This is incorrect. I know a highly reputable breeder who uses Donedeal if needed.

He would generally breed his pups and keep about 3 of the pups for six months. After six months, he will pick which one/two he feels is best for the show circuit and sells the others, on Donedeal if needed at an appropriate "pet price" as he refers to it.

As he said to me, he can't expect to charge show dog prices for pups he is not willing to show himself. Just like he doesn't expect the other show people he knows to buy pups he has decided are not worth keeping for showing having kept them to that age.

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

It is very much "buyer beware" which ever route you go by and I would suggest a lot of research and having your data ready before buying. Some of the posters on here do have great knowledge but I do feel they have too much trust of some of the institutions involved in the Irish dog market.

Gael23

Lemlin wrote: »

I'

As he said to me, he can't expect to charge show dog prices for pups he is not willing to show himself. Just like he doesn't expect the other show people he knows to buy pups he has decided are not worth keeping for showing having kept them to that age.

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of money IKC Breeders ask for.

Lemlin

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

It's a question I often ask the IKC club breeders in here. That will state themselves that it's very hard to get a pup suitable for showing and you may not even get one from a litter.

Therefore why charge show dog prices for pups not suitable for showing? My friend is realistic and realised this which is why he has a show dog price for people who have ordered and pick their pup at birth hoping to show it and a pet price for others.

You also need to realise your audience on this forum. It's like going into the Man Utd supporters club and asking if Liverpool would be a good team to go and watch! That's not to say it's not good advice but it is biased by certain posters who are members of these clubs themselves.

My advice would be do the research and look up the data yourself. I ended up paying £330, about €400 at the time, for a dog in NI with all health checks, that's father was an Irish champion, and had far better breeding than any dog in ROI that I was offered for €600-€650.

AryaStark

I too got my dog off Done Deal and am very happy with her. But I think that I was lucky and I would not use it again. Since getting her I have heard so any sad stories and I have to say that I do not agree with sites such as done deal selling live animals ... there is no protection for the animals and anybody can go online and buy one.

andreac

But whether you want to show it or not, has no relevance to stopping the dog getting ill or suffering with health issues. All pedigree dogs should be health tested before breeding. That has nothing to do with it being shown or just being a pet.

Its to do with their health and well being. You should not even consider a breeder that hasn't health tested the parents.

andreac

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

Reputable breeders charge more because they put so much more into the health and well being of their dogs, by health testing and caring much better for the litter than back yard breeders.

It costs huge money to raise a litter properly, so hence the higher price.

boomerang

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

Wasn't free either time. My little pup is half Scotty x Jack Russell he was 120 euros and our other girl was 250 euros, full bred. Setter And like I said I didn't want to but as I wasn't the one driving had no choice hence the word my ex.

Holy god, 120 euro? For a crossbreed? For that money you'd have a neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and wormed crossbreed from a rescue. :eek:

When she charged you that much, even if the litter was accidental, she was profiting from it.

kylith

Gael23 wrote: »

We would only want a family pet/companion dog too. Our last dog was never bred or shown all 15 years of his life. Thats what makes it hard to justify paying the sort of many IKC Breeders ask for.

The money goes toward paying for the health testing of the parents and vet care of the pups - just because you don't plan to show the dog doesn't mean it's immune from genetic problems like hip dysplasia, blindness, or heart problems.

I know more than one person who has bought a pup off DoneDeal and wound up spending many times what they saved by not going to a breeder on vet bills when the pup has developed a disease that could have been prevented by inoculation, or had ongoing vet fees for a chronic genetic problem.

It's like this, you can pay E5000 for a car that's had regular maintenance, been kept in a garage, and been regularly washed, or you can pay E500 for a car that's never been maintained and been left in a field for years. Which do you think you'll spend more on in the long run?

Lemlin

andreac wrote: »

But whether you want to show it or not, has no relevance to stopping the dog getting ill or suffering with health issues. All pedigree dogs should be health tested before breeding. That has nothing to do with it being shown or just being a pet.

Its to do with their health and well being. You should not even consider a breeder that hasn't health tested the parents.

I'd agree but why then would a breed club be giving out the details of breeders who have not completed relevant health checks?

Whether you want to show or not is relevant to the price IMO. As a show person, would you not agree? A pet dog should not cost as much as one that is suitable for showing. My friend has had Irish champions and he certainly thinks so.

andreac wrote: »

Reputable breeders charge more because they put so much more into the health and well being of their dogs, by health testing and caring much better for the litter than back yard breeders.

It costs huge money to raise a litter properly, so hence the higher price.

I'd agree the higher price is sometimes justified but not always. As I've shown above, not all breeders recommended by breed clubs are going through these rigorous checks. For all the stories about Donedeal, I'm sure people have plenty about breed clubs also.

By the way, I'm no fan of Donedeal, I just feel people should employ "buyer beware" whatever route they go. Of course, nothing can prepare someone for when they actually see the pup and that's the problem also. I know a man who drove to Wexford to see a pup with a full list of questions our friend, who I mentioned above, had given him to ask the breeder. He saw the pup, fell in love there and then and handed over €300 without even seeing IKC papers. Now that was stupidity.

kylith wrote: »

The money goes toward paying for the health testing of the parents and vet care of the pups - just because you don't plan to show the dog doesn't mean it's immune from genetic problems like hip dysplasia, blindness, or heart problems.

I know more than one person who has bought a pup off DoneDeal and wound up spending many times what they saved by not going to a breeder on vet bills when the pup has developed a disease that could have been prevented by inoculation, or had ongoing vet fees for a chronic genetic problem.

It's like this, you can pay E5000 for a car that's had regular maintenance, been kept in a garage, and been regularly washed, or you can pay E500 for a car that's never been maintained and been left in a field for years. Which do you think you'll spend more on in the long run?

You can also go to a car dealer who tries to sell you a car valued at €3000 for €5000!

Also, I'd point out, all the tests in the world and great results don't mean that a pup still won't get any of the above issues. Good results mean they have less of a chance but problems can still occur.

Knine

Same old argument which you seem to have an issue with Lemlin. It costs the same amount of money to produce a high quality pet puppy as it does to produce a Champion puppy. I'm not going into those costs yet again. You get what you pay for & finding a breeder with healthy tested puppies & full aftersales backup - Dogs come back to me for grooming & any help required. I handstrip to show standard which you seldom get in a dog groomers. My pet homes are as equally delighted with their puppies as the show owners. Afterall they are all family pets. A puppy is also never sold here for showing. They are sold with show potential.

Ms. Pingui

peasant wrote: »

If you want a pure bred pup that comes from parents that have all the relevant health checks done, bred by somebody who knows what they're doing, born into a good environment and that already has basic socialisation and health checks/vacs done ...you're not going to get it for done deal prices (and hence not on done deal)

If you're buying a pure bred pup on done deal, regardless of what the ad says ...most or all of the above haven't been done.

Best case scenario your pup will still end up healthy and with no issues ...highly unlikely though with a breed that has issues (which theses days most of them do).
Worst case scenario you've just financed an unscrupulous back yard breeder for another 3-6 months (until the next litter), contributed to the misery of the broodstock and ended up with a sickly pup that will cost you loads in money and grief.

Where done deal works is for mongrels (genuine ones, not the ones with made up names) and other similar "accidents" . People had pups by accident not design and need to find good homes for them. It is fair to give them some money (food, meds, time invested) but genuine people will ask for none or just very little.
Here of course you get pot luck ...nobody knows what the finished dog will look like, what its most likely behaviour will be or if it will be healthy or not.
Then again ...mongrels usually are healthier than pure breeds and the socialisation and education of your pup will not be influenced by preconceived ideas of how your dog should react (according to breed standard) so it's really in your hands and your fault if it goes wrong

Here's one such mongrel from done deal ...happy and healthy and just fabulous....and he cost less than his first bag of food
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93899130&postcount=9580

Your dog is gorgeous! I have a mongrel myself, I got him from a friend who had an unintended litter of pups and all they wanted was to get a loving home for the pups.
People like this are not motivated by profit but unless you know the person you can't really be sure. The "pup" is 8 now and he's absolutely fab, I couldn't ask for a better dog. I love mongrels, they are so quirky!

borderlinemeath

Ms. Pingui wrote: »

Your dog is gorgeous! I have a mongrel myself, I got him from a friend who had an unintended litter of pups and all they wanted was to get a loving home for the pups.
People like this are not motivated by profit but unless you know the person you can't really be sure. The "pup" is 8 now and he's absolutely fab, I couldn't ask for a better dog. I love mongrels, they are so quirky!

Even if not motivated by money, the fact that people are willing to take the pups off their hands can lead to complacency. For every "accidental" litter that people let their dogs have, I very much doubt that all their female dogs are spayed afterwards, it costs money and at the end of the day it is surgery for the dog, yet they'll let them go through the ordeal of having a litter of pups which has it's own associated health risks? For those people that do spay afterwards so they don't have to put their dogs through it again, that's brilliant, but it certainly isn't all of them.

Ms. Pingui

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Even if not motivated by money, the fact that people are willing to take the pups off their hands can lead to complacency. For every "accidental" litter that people let their dogs have, I very much doubt that all their female dogs are spayed afterwards, it costs money and at the end of the day it is surgery for the dog, yet they'll let them go through the ordeal of having a litter of pups which has it's own associated health risks? For those people that do spay afterwards so they don't have to put their dogs through it again, that's brilliant, but it certainly isn't all of them.

I totally agree with you. The person I got my dog from did spay the mother afterwards and to be fair to him he did everything he could health wise for the pups and ensured they went to good homes.
I would be very wary of taking a pup from a stranger with an "accidental litter" though because you really don't know what's went on behind the scenes.
Finding the right pup can be a bit of a minefield, I think the rescue route is great if you're looking for a family pet.

peasant

There are black sheep everywhere from dodgy breeders to dodgy rescues and everything inbetween.

At the end of the day you have to buy the seller as much as the pup.

Done deal is handy in that respect as sometimes the pictures already tell the story or the text gives it away that something isn't kosher here.

Also, you can quiz the seller thoroughly over the phone first (and hopefully they will do the same to you)

When you stand in front of a lot of cute wriggly pups (be that at the breeders premises or elsewhere) sense often goes out the window and you take one of them home regardless.

odckdo

Just wondering do certain breeds have better breeders in Ireland?

As the IKC is mostly adminstrative, would a club/society that breeders are a member of to show and judge set a higher code of conduct within the club for beeding and selling of pups?

Also the KC in the UK has a approved breeder scheme where health checks are mandatory and breeding facilities are checked. KC pups seem to be more expensive but I would pay the extra for that peace of mind.

For the OP, all I was trying to say earlier is that if you decide on a IKC pup to know your stuff beforehand regardless of who the breeder is. I have been very lucky with my dogs. If I did get another I would go again with the IKC route but would obviously research beforehand, pre-book and collect at 8 weeks. I wouldn't for example buy a 3 month pup from a IKC breeder on donedeal.

DBB

Lemlin wrote: »

He'd also give a very different opinion to the IKC/show circuit to a lot of posters on here. It is highly competitive and some breed clubs can be very cliquey.

Some of the posters on here do have great knowledge but I do feel they have too much trust of some of the institutions involved in the Irish dog market.

Lemlin wrote: »

You also need to realise your audience on this forum. It's like going into the Man Utd supporters club and asking if Liverpool would be a good team to go and watch! That's not to say it's not good advice but it is biased by certain posters who are members of these clubs themselves.

Lemlin,
Every time this subject comes up, you end up causing war.
Now, for the sake of the survival of this thread, I am going to point out to you why your posts cause so much trouble.
Can you not say what you want to say without making the reputable breeders here feel like you're attacking them, and judging them, and criticising them? Because that's how the above posts come across... they're pretty passive-aggressive comments.
I am not particularly interested in breeding, but if you said what you've said about my field of dogdom, I'd be seriously peed off with you.
And that's why your posts cause trouble. Your phrasing pees people off, and just comes across as a tad too holier-than-thou.
Please, for the sake of this thread, tone it down, and try to be a little more polite and less preachy.
The message of this thread is that no matter where a person goes to source a pup, they have got to put the research in. That is not an excuse to yet again call into question the genuineness of the people who are into showing and breeding here.

To all... can we please get back on-topic now, as if this turns into a one-upmanship competition yet again, I will close it.

Do not reply to this post on-thread.
Thanks,
DBB

Springwell

I sourced my working springer via done deal, not a back yard breeder at all - sire is Irish field trial champion and the bitch is a field trial winner. No dog in the five gen pedigree does not have a field trial award or champion title. Parents both health tested. Pup came vaccinated, wormed, legally docked with food and a blanket from his kennel. The breeder had a last minute drop out from the original buyers and posted the pup on done deal with a price on application/working home only listing as well as advertising in the UK (kennels are in NI).

Pup won his first working test and is wellon his way to attempting to emulate his dad as Irish champion. If you kow what you're looking for donedeal isn't all puppy mills.

hardCopy

boomerang wrote: »

Holy god, 120 euro? For a crossbreed? For that money you'd have a neutered, microchipped, vaccinated and wormed crossbreed from a rescue. :eek:

When she charged you that much, even if the litter was accidental, she was profiting from it.

I'm always hearing about people being refused dogs by rescues because both owners work. Where else are people to get a dog?