Raw 23-3-15

martyos121

For anyone following the thread who didn't see the end of Raw, I'll just sum it up for ye so there's no need to suffer through it:

Scorpion Sting

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean.

As regards the ending, I found it extremely lame and disappointing. Reigns needed to speak here right to Brock's face like he did on the Raw after the Rumble. He needed to answer the stuff said by Heyman.

I've seen tipsy relatives having a more menacing tug of war over a Christmas cracker than Reigns and Lesnar did over the title.

As I said before this Mania is set up to stage a New Era I feel. The Authority are looking like they're about to lose the control with Sting, Orton and Reigns leading the way with help from Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler plus a few others.

SureYWouldntYa

jebforever wrote: »

As I said before this Mania is set up to stage a New Era I feel. The Authority are looking like they're about to lose the control with Sting, Orton and Reigns leading the way with help from Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler plus a few others.

I think we all thought last year was the beginning of a new era with Bryan winning in the main event. Look how that turned out

Angron

Maybe you're right, but I highly, highly doubt it. Calling the booking sloppy is generous, entertaining the fans took second place to pushing Reigns, and as much as people might want a Sting vs. Taker feud, it's over 10 years late and any match between the two is probably going to be nothing short of terrible.

Mr.Nice Guy

I do think the Mania show itself will deliver. Orton vs Reigns should be good, the ladder match will be amusing chaos, Cena vs Rusev will be helped by a passionate crowd, the battle royal ought to be fun at the end at least, Taker and Wyatt I feel will deliver, Sting vs HHH will be well handled by the company, and the main event I'm confident won't be the train wreck that Goldberg/Lesnar was.

Having said all that, I think the show will deliver despite the build. This has been one of the weakest built Manias I can recall with a lame final moment that just summed it all up.

I said weeks ago that I thought Rollins would involve himself in the main event and I'm sticking by that. The briefcase option is a very handy Plan B for Vince if Lesnar/Reigns starts to go tits up. Rollins is sure to get a great pop if he comes out and he can salvage the ship if it starts to sink. I still feel Reigns will leave with the title though.

Scorpion Sting

Angron wrote: »

Maybe you're right, but I highly, highly doubt it. Calling the booking sloppy is generous, entertaining the fans took second place to pushing Reigns, and as much as people might want a Sting vs. Taker feud, it's over 10 years late and any match between the two is probably going to be nothing short of terrible.

I really like your negative thinking, keep that going man.







:pac:

rovert

jebforever wrote: »

As I said before this Mania is set up to stage a New Era I feel. The Authority are looking like they're about to lose the control with Sting, Orton and Reigns leading the way with help from Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler plus a few others.

Course

Angron

jebforever wrote: »

I really like your negative thinking, keep that going man.







:pac:

Better than hopeless optimism :P Maybe it will be a great show, but I can see it being one of the worse ones in recent times, but maybe that's because the bad booking has just worn me down.


You can't deny though, it is very late for a Taker vs. Sting feud, Taker will be 51 by next Mania, Sting 57 (I think).

rovert

Heel Reigns by this time next week

Looper007

jebforever wrote: »

As I said before this Mania is set up to stage a New Era I feel. The Authority are looking like they're about to lose the control with Sting, Orton and Reigns leading the way with help from Bryan, Ambrose and Ziggler plus a few others.

Lets see here

Orton has been a made guy since 2007
Sting is nearly in his 60's
Reigns is the most hated man in WWE

Yeah some new era alright :pac:

They went all out to make Bryan look bad since his return, Ambrose has never recovered since the Wyatt feud and Ziggler is always been push and de pushed. Three of their most over faces (Bryan been one of their most over guys in years) been mishandled cause Vince wanted no one to take the shine away from Reigns.

Looper007

Angron wrote: »

Better than hopeless optimism :P Maybe it will be a great show, but I can see it being one of the worse ones in recent times, but maybe that's because the bad booking has just worn me down.


You can't deny though, it is very late for a Taker vs. Sting feud, Taker will be 51 by next Mania, Sting 57 (I think).

Some people on here seem to want to forget Stings run in TNA, he had more awful matches then good. HHH best match was with the best worker in WWE at last years WM. I doubt this match will be any good

Reigns/Lesnar is getting booed no matter if its good or not.

Taker/Wyatt, I doubt this match will be any great shakes. Wyatt I feel needs to be carried to great matches imo.

Cena/Rusev. you know whos overcoming those odds

Rollins/Orton has potential to be a great one as does the IC ladder match.

I agree with you Angron, I don't see anything special happening at this WM.

Jon Stark

Ah jaysus that tug of war was as bad as how I read it. They're having an absolute tony blair with this non feud.

Rock Lesnar

Just watched the show there, and it just confirmed that i wont be watching mania this year, it just doesnt grab me like previous shows,

I couldn't care less about Sting, HHH, or Taker now either, the lads i enjoy watching are stuck in a ladder match, just so they are on the show, Rusev is doomed, and while i love Heyman and Lesnar, no matter who wins, this has been so poorly booked so far, the best they could come up with 6 days before mania is a ''its mine, no its mine, give that back, maaaaammy roman wont give my belt back'' bullsh*t.

gerrybbadd

Jon Stark wrote: »

Ah jaysus that tug of war was as bad as how I read it. They're having an absolute tony blair with this non feud.

Jon Stark

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Moneymaker

Jesus Christ that ending was embarrassing to watch. That was bad by off season RAW standards, but the go home segment before Mania? Fcuk me.

Reigns had little chance of getting over, but it's like they've gone out of their way to make sure he has no chance of doing so.

Has to be a heel turn.

Stereomaniac

jebforever wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that it won't be a clean finish anyway.

I'm fairly confident that The Undertaker will defeat Bray Wyatt with the Tombstone cleanly in the middle of the ring, or else with the Hell's Gate. I don't think there'll be any sort of screwy finish which costs him the victory or anything.

gerrybbadd

I think it's truly time Vince left after Mania.

They must think now that the Network has as many subs as it does, that they no longer need to sell events to fans. That ending to Raw would be shyte for even a B or C PPV. The fact that this was the Mania go home show, to have a tug o war for the title?

Time and again, this company has screwed the fans over in the past 4 to 5 years at least. It's time for a total reboot. Raw need to drop an hour. Smackdown needs to be scrapped altogether. Get back to basics. Wrestling. Not entertainment. Wrestling Vince. That's what brought you to the dance.

Sad thing to say but, I fear, only death will allow Vince to release his grasp over the company. I can see there being a huge decline in subs after Mania.

WWE could be in trouble here if they lose their core fan base. They're not doing anything to retain them as subscribers or buyers of ppvs.

montyrebel

that was a genius ending by vince, its obviously to get us all to tune into smackdown :pac:

Ridley

martyos121 wrote: »

They literally could not have ended the show any worse. That was fcuking pathetic tbh.

Oh yes They could. Worst Raw ending in my experience was "Don't go anywhere, there's more after the break!" led to a recap of what happened before the adverts then the show ended.

Caovyn Lineah

Wow, just wow. There are no other words to use for that ending.

Remember how the last Raw before Mania last year ended?

SlickRic

Absolutely fúcking abysmal.

They manged to make Brock look about as menacing as a toddler.

Fúck you Vince.

Moneymaker

Their booking and writing is so flip flop, it's maddening. It's like they know what we want and how to put together a great show, they simply choose not to.

There was a lot of decent stuff on that show. Some angles and some of the matches I really enjoyed. I thought the Snoop Dogg stuff was fun and I enjoyed the diva's match, not the smoothest match you'll ever see but it was good and the crowd got behind it. Wyatt cut one of his best promos and Heyman's promo was again, sensational.

But then you have the unbearable commentary, Swagger being fed to Rusev for the 3375673643489th time, Ambrose dancing with R-Truth, all of the guys climbing the ladder for seemingly no reason. Made them all look like complete idiots.

Reigns is done for. They even managed to make Brock Lesnar look like a geek. Brock fcuking Lesnar. Staggering. The contrast from last year when DB beat the crap out of HHH and the crowd ATE IT UP, as opposed to this year where Reigns pretty much got booed as bad as he did at the Rumble. It's embarrassing.

Stereomaniac

Snoop Dogg was great last night. I actually got a laugh out of Dean Ambrose and R-Truth. Try not to take it so seriously guys.

Angron

Ridley wrote: »

Oh yes They could. Worst Raw ending in my experience was "Don't go anywhere, there's more after the break!" led to a recap of what happened before the adverts then the show ended.

When was that? Can't say I remember it, but that sounds fecking horrendous.

Rjd2

montyrebel wrote: »

that was a genius ending by vince, its obviously to get us all to tune into smackdown :pac:

What's a "Smackdown"?:o

Tugboats

Moneymaker wrote: »

Wyatt cut one of his best promos and Heyman's promo was again, sensational

Both were pointless as we've had them for weeks now. Wyatt should be wrestling with some Taker mind games thrown into the mix. Having Heyman on the mic for the majority of the main event followed by a 30 sec tug o war was a waste of time

Nody

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Sad thing to say but, I fear, only death will allow Vince to release his grasp over the company. I can see there being a huge decline in subs after Mania.

WWE could be in trouble here if they lose their core fan base. They're not doing anything to retain them as subscribers or buyers of ppvs.

Well I expect the buy rate will be way down compared to previous years I'm still sure Vince will manage to turn it into the fact:

1) Cena was not in the last match
2) DB is at fault for not putting over his golden boy
3) The Golden Boy was not at fault but actually it was all Lesnar's fault for hinting at leaving to UFC anyway.

rovert

The Observer and the Torch don't seem to know if Lesnar has been re-signed seemingly.

There's inevitability about Reigns winning and there's this vague tease of dissension between Heyman and Lesnar. But personally didn't get a gauge last night that he is totally staying.

SlickRic

i have to vent again on this fúcking garbage of a lead-in to Wrestlemania.

so, you decide you're going with Roman Reigns. you decide he is going to be THE next guy. it's a year or 2 at least too early, but whatever, let's just pretend it's not. Reigns is the chosen guy.

Vince knows how to promote the main guy. he's done it before. he's seen how it works. so how the holy fúck is he butchering this so badly? How? Just how?

Reigns needs all the help he can get. He was getting over before his injury, it's undeniable. He was over when he returned. Of that, there is no doubt either. this is despite never having a proper singles feud. but they also wanted to cash in a little on Daniel Bryan's return. So they had him come back in the Rumble to increase interest. Reigns was still over enough that him winning the Rumble shouldn't have been a disaster. But people wanted Bryan, and saw a mouth-watering opportunity to have him fight Lesnar at Mania.

And then it all starts to fúck up, and at no point do WWE help themselves from here on in. fúcking idiots.

You have your most popular guy fúcked out of the Rumble early. You insult the fans in thinking they'll forget about it after 30 minutes and get behind Reigns. You then insult them further by trying to get Uncle Rock to endorse Reigns, and you kill his momentum stone dead. How did WWE not think they were feeding the perception that Reigns is entitled and the "chosen one"?

You then dangle another carrot in front of the people. You have Bryan v Reigns so as to try and distract the fans for a few weeks, while also trying to get the most popular guy in the company to endorse Reigns. How does Vince think this fúcking works in 2015? You make Bryan look like a schmuck, and you make Reigns look ridiculous because it's so obvious he's being forced upon the audience.

Then, the one thing you can do to salvage this main event, the one straw of hope that is left, is you have Reigns obliterate everyone in the run up to Mania. you have him destroying most of roster every week. you have him destroy Big Show and Kane in 2 minute matches. but no, you have the guy pinned with a schoolboy. so now, this unstoppable force has just been, erm, stopped, but a simple wrestling hold. i don't give a shít about distractions. the guy lost. why the holy fúck would you pin the guy? why? Vince knows this shít. he's not dumb. did he beat Hogan 5 weeks from Mania? Warrior? HBK? Stone Cold? and they were all people who were fúcking over to main event level. Reigns needs all the help he can get to help the perception of him as a main event player, and you pin him? So that hurts him even more.

Then you have the debacle of last night. the face-off. the moment to close the last RAW before Wrestlemania. the moment when we're supposed to get hyped for the main event of the biggest show of the year...and they fight like 6 years olds. So, not only does Reigns look like a fool, but your bona-fide big time superstar, your box-office attraction, Brock fúcking Lesnar, who beat the Streak, who annihilated John Cena, who beat Seth and Cena in a triple threat, who has been billed as the Conqueror who will go to UFC and unify the WWE and UFC Championships if he so wishes, is now just a child fighting over a toy. the mystique, gone. you make Lesnar just another fúcking guy. it was only for a moment, and it won't destroy him at all, but it was enough to make me sigh in anguish. why the fúck?

just have them brawl, Reigns get the upper hand slightly, and Brock bail. you tease the match, you make it known that Reigns might be capable, and you get an excuse to see passion, fire and energy. VINCE KNOWS THIS. he's done it 100 times before.

but no, we get what we got last night.

fúck WWE. honestly, fúck them. if they want to insult us all, fine. they obviously think we'll all watch whatever the fúck they put in front of us, and to be fair, for a huge part, they're probably right.

but this is one guy who is merely going to see what the results are the next day, and catch any recommended matches afterwards. it's been a shítly built, shítly promoted, shítly handled steaming pile of shíte of a road to Wrestlemania.

and this despite the Sting/HHH angle actually being a good one; which only enforced the point that VINCE KNOWS HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.

Infuriating.

And to top it all off the best heel you could ever have to propel a talent into superstardom, Brock Lesnar, is going to be wasted. the Streak will have been wasted. burying Bryan will have been wasted.

Such fúcking bollocks of the highest order.

Moneymaker

Thanking that as it's saved me the effort of typing a similar rant.

You know it's a train wreck of epic magnitude when you manage to make Brock Lesnar look like a geek.

Maybe he's not staying and Vince did it on purpose to make him look bad. Mind blowingly stupid but not beyond McMahon.

Ridley

Angron wrote: »

When was that? Can't say I remember it, but that sounds fecking horrendous.

It was definitely years back. I'd like to say round about the Rated RKO/main eventer Edge days but you're asking me to remember what the recap was.

Maybe you can get it for $9.99. :pac:

CSF

Can't see past Reigns/Heyman heel turn thing setting up face Lesnar v heel Reigns for Summerslam.

They've booked themselves into a hole.

SlickRic

CSF wrote: »

Can't see past Reigns/Heyman heel turn thing setting up face Lesnar v heel Reigns for Summerslam.

They've booked themselves into a hole.

This is my only hope when I wake up on Monday morning. Right now, if you strike, I think you have a big-time heel run in Reigns; just play into the perception of entitlement that exists. then down the line, I guarantee he'll get over as a star, then turn him into the face of the company if you want.

as I think rovert has mentioned before though, and i think it's a very pertinent point, i reckon Vince is rushing this Reigns push because he wants to see one final megastar made before he goes.

Caovyn Lineah

CSF wrote: »

Can't see past Reigns/Heyman heel turn thing setting up face Lesnar v heel Reigns for Summerslam.

They've booked themselves into a hole.

But what do you do with Brock then? Without Heyman as his mouthpiece he loses a lot of his character in my eyes.

CSF

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

But what do you do with Brock then? Without Heyman as his mouthpiece he loses a lot of his character in my eyes.

Silent destroyer. He's also not THAT bad on the mic.

That Reigns Lesnar faceoff was cringe worthy. Its a shame as i was liking Reigns but they are just pushing way too hard right now.

Lord TSC

slickric summed up most of my thoughts.

Lesnar/Reigns is a bombsite. I thought they'd go with the generic pull apart brawl, that would have been cliched but for good reason. Instead.....whatever....

Cena/Rusev hasn't been bad if you skip the speedbump of Cena annihilating Rusev a few weeks back.

HHH/Sting hasn't been bad, but we could probably write the match in full right now. There's no real tension there for me, and it's going to be a heavily scripted spot fest with loads of interference.

Rollins vs Orton is meh.

Taker/Wyatt has been hurt by the fact that, despite the fact I think Wyatt has done a decent job cutting promos, you literally could have listened to the first one two months ago, missed every other segment, and not have the story altered in any way whatsoever.

Divas tag is every other divas feud you've ever seen.

The ladder match will be a great spot fest between guys who'll never get pushed in any meaningful way, so why bother investing.

The build up has been horrid, and I don't blame the people involved in front of the camera at all, because all the problems have lied with whoever has booked the feuds, and given them next to nothing to work on.

briany

CSF wrote: »

Silent destroyer. He's also not THAT bad on the mic.

Lesnar used to be the tits on the mic.

Oh wait, you meant Roman.

Well, still, Lesnar CAN talk if he wants to. Let's not forget...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGWG3FFEN-A

Caovyn Lineah

CSF wrote: »

Silent destroyer. He's also not THAT bad on the mic.

But remember who he would be going against on the mic. Heyman would destroy him week after week.

SlickRic

Lord TSC wrote: »

The ladder match will be a great spot fest between guys who'll never get pushed in any meaningful way, so why bother investing.

this is a whole other rant altogether if I wanted to really get going.

so let me get this straight...you're going to put all the talented guys, the guys the crowd want to get behind (i.e. Ziggler, Bryan, Ambrose, even Barrett) into the one match, with I would imagine the sole purpose of 'giving the crowd what they want', with the idea that if the crowd get given all their favourites, then maybe they'll forget about them all by the end, and not take a steaming shíte on the main event.

such grade A, patronising, insulting, bullshít bollocks.

J. Marston

Roll on post-Mania Raw and the inevitable cacophony of boos for Reigns.

Rusev got the better of Cena on the go-home show so if we apply standard logic, he's losing on Sunday. But Cole did say that there's "No way Cena will be at 100% on Sunday" so maybe there could be a twist.

Or maybe they just want Cena's win to be even more glorious.....and annoying.

briany

Without Lana around, Rusev really goes down a couple of notches. He's just some flag waving lunatic destined for mid-card hell.

Chip Whitley

Have to say, I usually take the rough with the smooth when it comes to WWE, but watching the mess involving the IC match participants and the ridiculous tug of war with Lesnar/Reigns I am the least hyped I've been for 'Mania in years. Some of the segments last night would be poor for a normal Raw, but for a go-home before Mania Raw they were abysmal. So so poor.

sky88

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That Reigns Lesnar faceoff was cringe worthy. Its a shame as i was liking Reigns but they are just pushing way too hard right now.

I think thats the worst thing theyve done with reigns, i think he was generally liked by fans but hes been booked so poorly. there was barley a reaction when he came out last night just a smattering of boos and cheers

Unearthly

What the hell was that end? All it needed was both wrestlers to say 'no no you stop it' in an overly camp voice

SlickRic

on top of Vince being desperate to launch one final megastar before he goes, i genuinely think they got spooked at the Royal Rumble.

before that Reigns' booking was simple. it's only since the Rumble that it's gotten really terrible. it's like it's being completely overthought.

just have him keep beating people and say next to fúck all. easy.

Gerry Rio

Best comment on Reddit:



"That belt had a family!"

CSF

briany wrote: »

Without Lana around, Rusev really goes down a couple of notches. He's just some flag waving lunatic destined for mid-card hell.

Completely agree. I think he is class. Number 2 full-time heel after Seth Rollins. Lana clearly adds to the gimmick but that is inevitable.

briany

CSF wrote: »

Completely agree. I think he is class. Number 2 full-time heel after Seth Rollins. Lana clearly adds to the gimmick but that is inevitable.

If Lana's not going to be around, he needs to develop depth quick or become an afterthought on the roster, but I really think him and Lana have been built as a package so much that it'll be hard for fans to accept him on his own.