what to do about angry dogs next door?

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

I said including Staffordshires.

No you didn't

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Going to play devil's advocate here, while it is abhorrent to suggest to resolve a problem by introducing canine aggression, it is actually well documented that Staffordshire Bull Terriers are involved in more dog attacks.

shaymus27 wrote: »

I don't want to upset any staffie lovers but as far as I am aware, they are on Ireland's restricted breed list. I haven't checked before writing this and am going from memory.

If they are, which I suspect, then there is a reason for that. It didn't happen because those who were consulted when composing this list just somehow completely misunderstands the breed.

Unfortunately, as surprising as it is, the drawing up of the RB list wasn't done with any scientific rationale or understanding of dogs. Chihuahuas were going to be included because the name made it sound as though they were dangerous.

Why are some mastiffs on it, and others aren't? Why are German Shepherds on it, but Belgian Shepherds aren't? Why are Rhodesian Ridgebacks on it, but ..... you get the point.

muddypaws

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'm sorry and this sounds bad, but how the feck are people who have guide dogs meant to identify staffies from any other breed when people with adequate vision have difficulty??

One of the best posts ever on Boards.ie

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I'm sorry and this sounds bad, but how the feck are people who have guide dogs meant to identify staffies from any other breed when people with adequate vision have difficulty??

Brilliant!

As I'm sure people on here may volunteer to do same, there is a lot of work to be done before they actually enter service as a working dog! Regardless, a valid point, 61% of the studies were encountered when in harness (and presumed working) and this may have altered the dynamic with regards to normal canine-canine communication.

DerTierarzt

muddypaws wrote: »

Chihuahuas were going to be included because the name made it sound as though they were dangerous.

Really interesting, do you happen to have a source for this?

DerTierarzt

muddypaws wrote: »

No you didn't

See below and earlier:

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Having analysed the paper in full, the statistics support bull terriers including Staffordshires as being over-represented in dog-on-dog aggression. The most pertinent supporting statistic would be that bull breeds constitute roughly 5.9% of the UK dog population, but accounted for 45.7% of the aggressors in the study (completed over nearly 3 years looking at 100 victims - guide dogs).

muddypaws

DerTierarzt wrote: »

See below and earlier:

This has taken the thread completely off topic, so I'm going to stop posting on it now. I replied to your first comment, where you definitely did not say 'including'

shaymus27

andreac wrote: »

You should do a little research into the restricted breeds list to be honest. Its not there because of what you think.


I do my research but not from facebook;

I tried to post list which includes staffies with info. about what legal route you can take which is probably not what OP really wants by copying and pasting from the correct site but it came up that I couldn't as I am a new user.

Look up the dept of environment site about dog control for info on restricted breeds - a Government site, not facebook.

tk123

shaymus27 wrote: »

andreac wrote: »

You should do a little research into the restricted breeds list to be honest. Its not there because of what you think.


I do my research but not from facebook;

I tried to post list which includes staffies with info. about what legal route you can take which is probably not what OP really wants by copying and pasting from the correct site but it came up that I couldn't as I am a new user.

Look up the dept of environment site about dog control for info on restricted breeds - a Government site, not facebook.

The dogs the OP posted about are terriers not RB dogs?!

OP I'd love to hear how you got on?

andreac

shaymus27 wrote: »

andreac wrote: »

You should do a little research into the restricted breeds list to be honest. Its not there because of what you think.


I do my research but not from facebook;

I tried to post list which includes staffies with info. about what legal route you can take which is probably not what OP really wants by copying and pasting from the correct site but it came up that I couldn't as I am a new user.

Look up the dept of environment site about dog control for info on restricted breeds - a Government site, not facebook.

Trust me. I know all about the restricted breeds list. I own 3 Rotties. The point I was trying to make us to do a little research on how the list was drawn up in the first place.

DerTierarzt

andreac wrote: »

The point I was trying to make us to do a little research on how the list was drawn up in the first place.

Do you happen to have any scientific articles or papers that would support your viewpoint please or is this purely a subjective assessment of the situation as it stands?

DerTierarzt

hagoonabear wrote: »

Hi guys , since the weather is getting better my neighbours have been leaving their four terriers outside now I like pets I do , but these guys absolutely hate everyone, really aggressive dogs , whenever I walk outside to my back they are going mad trying get through the fence to get to me , I have tried talking to the neighbours about them they said not there problem , there dogs it what they do but I cant even go outside with my daughter they are going mad barking I'm afraid it will turn her off dogs as they go crazy any advice, a friend said to get her dog and leave it outside in back to frighten them or to show dominance or something but I don't know .

Please find the link here, but if you want to follow the letter of the law you must next contact your local authority to request a prescribed form for excessive barking, with this you are informing your neighbour in writing.

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

If it were me I would go completely opposite and throw a few treats over the fence.

This is a form of positive reinforcement, and may in fact worsen the undesired behaviour.

borderlinemeath

DerTierarzt wrote: »

This is a form of positive reinforcement, and may in fact worsen the undesired behaviour.

The OP is not in control of the dogs, the best she can do in the situation is counter conditioning by trying to avert their aggression away from the fence.

shaymus27

tk123 wrote: »

The dogs the OP posted about are terriers not RB dogs?!

OP I'd love to hear how you got on?

No need to be confused, to clarify;

My point about the restricted breeds list was in reply to a poster who suggested staffies weren't on the list. I see from further posts the poster meant the reasons why staffies got on the list, rather than that staffies weren't on the list. The poster might have made this a little clearer in their original post but I get what they mean now after their subsequent post.

I tried to include what the Govt website - environment website said exactly about what the OP could do via the legal route - I think it mentions district court and you complain via the environment/local authority way - I think DerT mentions this in a post.

Hence I tried to paste the environment website, the control of dogs act with restricted breed list AND THE SECTION ABOUT EXCESSIVE DOG NOISE TO HELP THE OP.

It would have been clearer if I had been allowed post these but can't as I am new or so it came up.

I was trying to do two things in the one post - reply to one poster while showing the OP what it says about the legal route. I think my first post would be a better way as long as it is safely done, not the legal route.

OP, One other point that just came to mind about the barking; it may be that one dog sets the others off so if you could make friends with that dog it might help - see my first post about the need to do that safely.

Perhaps no more stuff about staffies or other people's posts and more attempts to help OP.

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The OP is not in control of the dogs, the best she can do in the situation is counter conditioning by trying to avert their aggression away from the fence.

Absolutely, but any reward given to the dogs in this instance when barking constitutes positive reinforcement.

borderlinemeath

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Absolutely, but any reward given to the dogs in this instance when barking constitutes positive reinforcement.

Semantics pure and simple. I'd be hard pressed to see any other solution to the OPs predicament given that the neighbour is unwilling to listen.

You seem to be very good on correcting other posters on where they seem to be going wrong, but how about you give the OP some advice on what to do?:rolleyes:

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Semantics pure and simple.

Rewarding the offending dogs for the undesired behaviour could worsen it, that's all.

You seem to be very good on correcting other posters on where they seem to be going wrong, but how about you give the OP some advice on what to do?:rolleyes:

Apart from flagging potentially worsening the situation, and this below from within the past hour?

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Please find the link here, but if you want to follow the letter of the law you must next contact your local authority to request a prescribed form for excessive barking, with this you are informing your neighbour in writing.

borderlinemeath

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Rewarding the offending dogs for the undesired behaviour could worsen it, that's all.



Apart from flagging potentially worsening the situation, and this below from within the past hour?

There is no need to bolden your post, I can read it perfectly well without it. However, it did take you 11 completely off topic posts - 10 before Muddypaws actually pointed out that it was completely off topic before you posted legislation, not advice as such, but legislation, a confirmation of the law.

The OP has approached the neighbour in this instance, and while it didn't offer a solution, it's always worth exploring every avenue before taking the legal route, as she stated when she meets the dogs out walking, they appear nice. Most people do not want to get into legal wranglings with their next door neighbour and particularly straight from the off. While clarity in the legal option is helpful, in a neighbourly context it's usually going to start a war

Tell me DerTierarzt, do you have any pets? While it seems you are very knowlegeable on veterinary matters and legal boundaries concerning domestic pets, your advice comes across as very "clinical" if you don't mind me saying so. Pretty much every poster on this forum has pets, and while keeping in mind that anecdotal evidence is purely that, most posters will advise on what has worked for them in the past with their own pets, and are coming from a knowledge base that has included lifelong experience with their pets, and some are also involved in breeding, showing, behaviour, training etc. All your posts quote law or studies, and no mention of your own experiences, so it comes across as quite clinical, even lecturing other posters. I'm only saying this as I feel I may have been a bit hasty with my last post, but your posting style is slightly argumentative, and dare I say it, disparaging?

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

it's always worth exploring every avenue before taking the legal route

Couldn't agree more, just one of which is addressing it in by way of legislation as for nuisance by a barking dog.

borderlinemeath

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, just one of which is addressing it in by way of legislation as for nuisance by a barking dog.

So if you "couldn't agree more" that every avenue should be explored prior to going legal why didn't you offer advice only direct to legislation . You have an answer for everything else?

Except if you had any pets of course.

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Except if you had any pets of course.

Out of interest, if this were true or untrue, how does this make any difference? Is it a pre-requisite to post in this forum?

borderlinemeath

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Out of interest, if this were true or untrue, how does this make any difference? Is it a pre-requisite to post in this forum?

Because you choose to lecture other posters on their situations and opinions, yet you refuse to answer the one question I put to you.

tk123

DerTierarzt wrote: »

Out of interest, if this were true or untrue, how does this make any difference? Is it a pre-requisite to post in this forum?

Experience trumps book smarts and always will. Put it this way I'd consider my vet an expert but she considers me the expert on my dogs.

DerTierarzt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Because you choose to lecture other posters on their situations and opinions, yet you refuse to answer the one question I put to you.

1) The OP asked about nuisance barking,
2) a post was made (reprehensibly in case anyone thinks otherwise) about Staffies,
3) and I linked a relevant scientific article and objectively stated the conclusions.
4) The link allows posters to access the articles and come to their own interpretations.
5) positive reinforcement of the undesired behaviour (e.g.: giving treats to them when they are barking) may worsen the nuisance
6) just one of the OP's options is pursuing a formal complaint with regards to excessive barking

Again, I struggle to see how having an animal (whether true or untrue) would preclude me from stating my opinion as above?

DBB

Sweet Jehovah folks, can we please get back on topic here please? This thread has gone seriously off the rails.
Please address the op's initial query only from now on.
Thanks,
DBB

whattodo1

Hi OP Im having the same problem ive a 2 and 7 year old and when they go out to play the dogs are barking I just said it to my neighbour what could I do to get used to them and they were ok about it, I give a little treat to them pop my head over the hedge so they know me still bark but it will take time.

shaymus27

My next door neighbour's dog barks at me but it doesn't bother me.

He wasn't treated well before my neighbour got him. He is nervous about people and will probably always bark at people unless he gets some sort of intervention by someone who knows what to do.

The dog got used to another neighbour and doesn't bark at him. This neighbour just went in to the dog's yard with owner there and neighbour brought his own dog in so the barking dog got distracted and somehow in time got used to him.

The barking dog has not got used to me even though my dog plays with him and it's obvious I am with my dog. I haven't tried to pet him as it is not a problem. If it was a problem I would try petting him while his owner held him in his arms - this calms the dog down big time. I would be very careful though. This may not be appropriate for the dogs next to you.

I have thrown the odd bonio and other treats in to his yard when he could see me but wasn't barking at me and it hasn't helped. I don't think he even ate the stuff.

If one of your neighbour's dogs is nervy then it may be tougher to get him to calm down but it is possible, as the barking dog next to me does not mind the other neighbour when he calls over to visit the barking dog's owner.

Spanish Eyes

I cannot for the life of me understand how the owners of annoying barking and yapping pets NEVER seem to hear the feckers!

What's the story there? Are they deaf, or immune to their darling doggies or what?

Surely if they are going mad barking all day and night, the owners hear them aswell? That really puzzles me I have to say.

shaymus27

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I cannot for the life of me understand how the owners of annoying barking and yapping pets NEVER seem to hear the feckers!

What's the story there? Are they deaf, or immune to their darling doggies or what?

Surely if they are going mad barking all day and night, the owners hear them aswell? That really puzzles me I have to say.

I think the same about people with annoying kids - can't they see or hear how annoying they are?!!!

I have thought though that some people want their dogs to bark at anyone that comes near their house. When dogs bark all the time people ignore the dogs barking in respect of whether there is someone up to no good. It's a bit like burglar alarms going off all the time - people don't think anyone is being burgled any more as in some estates there is nearly always some alarm going off.

alroley

Please don't give them treats without the owners permission first.

My dog is a big barker and I tried everything, in the end the only thing that worked was squirting him with a very very low power water gun(tiny one from pound shop). I tell him "no" first and if he doesn't stop, he gets a quick spray of water. After the first few days of it, I rarely had to use it, as now he stops when told. I'm all for positive reinforcement and I know that is negative, but in the end it was necessary.