Garda released without charge after crash

RustyNut

durtybit wrote: »

So are we saying that in this "conflict of interest" incident. The Gardai nor the GSOC will be reliable of due diligence?

I think the usual procedure is for GSOC to start an investigation and An Garda Síochána and its members to obstruct it at every opportunity.

tayto lover

RustyNut wrote: »

I think the usual procedure is for GSOC to start an investigation and An Garda Síochána and its members to obstruct it at every opportunity.

So he almost wrote off two of his own YET they'll be backing him??
I seriously doubt that in fairness. I'd say they will be glad to be rid of him after that.
Time will tell the tale.
If he's found guilty he deserves to be sacked on top of whatever other punishment the court gives him.

AudreyHepburn

RustyNut wrote: »

I think the usual procedure is for GSOC to start an investigation and An Garda Síochána and its members to obstruct it at every opportunity.

I think you'll find you're very wrong on that.

But don't let common sense get in the way of a good Garda bashing rant.

RustyNut

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I think you'll find you're very wrong on that.

But don't let common sense get in the way of a good Garda bashing rant.

From here

GSOC have revealed this year the difficulties which they have encountered in working with gardaí. In 2011 three gardaí were convicted of assault and attempting to pervert the course of justice on the back of a GSOC investigation. This was the first time that a GSOC investigation lead to custodial sentences. This investigation has not entirely been classified as a success by GSOC, however, who recently released a statement expressing concern at the cooperation of gardaí with their investigation in that case. Most worrying is the following statement: “It is a cause of concern to the Ombudsman Commission that documentation it sought from the Garda Síochána and which was not supplied, was then produced in the course of the trial by the Defence for certain accused.” Defence counsel in the case was able to secure information that the investigating authorities could not.

In its 2012 annual report GSOC took the unusual step of discussing serious delays in the complaints process. Of all unresolved cases at the end of 2012, 73% were overtime. Twenty-one were over two years old. GSOC attributed part of this delay to gardaí consistently not meeting protocol agreed time-frames for exchanging information. On one occasion GSOC waited 542 days for a request for sensitive information to be fulfilled. GSOC has also been denied data which it considers routine and non-sensitive but which an Garda Síochána determines is sensitive. Even efforts to meet, discuss and resolve these issues have taken ‘far too long’. It is evident that cooperation between an Garda Síochána and GSOC is poor in certain respects. One has to wonder if the fact that GSOC is not investigating this latest allegation is connected to the problems which GSOC has already drawn attention to. If so what does this mean for the operational capacity of GSOC? And what does it mean for the accountability of our police service?

crusier

RustyNut wrote: »

From here

Do gardai not have a right to defend themselves and a right to due process, should they just take it up the ass, gsoc seem to cock up investigations on a regular basis and their professionalism has been seen to be appauling at times. They only seem to want the juicy cases and never seem to be vocal when gardai are exornerarated. They don't take prosecutions against those who have been proven to have made false claims and that is a serious credibility issue with members of ags as gsoc claim to be so fair and professional, they are well up there with any of the most inefficient public bodies and they are extremely well financed! No wonder members of AGS are cautious dealing with them!

MadDog76

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd have done it and lived with a clear conscience.
If someone had been killed by one of these drunk drivers and I hadn't reported it on the other hand ...

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Exactly. Even if they didn't work there I'm sure your local Gardai would have known who they were.

By ignoring what they were doing you put people's lives at risk.

But no, it's easier to bluster and pontificate about what ignorant fools the Gardai are and tar all of them with on brush then actually do something about those few who do wrong isn't it?

Anybody who thinks that Guards didn't drink and drive regularly in the early 90's is ......... naive.

Anybody who thinks that the Guards would have taken any action against another Guard on the word of a civilian in the early 90's is ......... naive.

Anybody who thinks that the Guards wouldn't harass a civilian for reporting a Guard in the early 90's is ......... naive.

Anybody who thinks the Guards wouldn't cover up for other Guards in even the most serious of crimes in the early 90's is ........ naive.

Anybody who thinks that all of the above doesn't happen regularly even today is .......... a complete f****** idiot! :rolleyes:

MadDog76

It hasn't been confirmed one way or the other if the Guard left the scene of the incident ........ as he was released without charge I suspect he was in fact arrested at the scene and did not flee.

The fact that he was released without charge would suggest that he either passed a breathalyser test or refused to do one and was subsequently blood-tested ....... meaning he won't be charged with drink driving until the results come back and he fails.

If there had been no witnesses or civilians involved in this incident he may not have been arrested at all .......... the Force is currently under-going a reformation but it's a slow process and will take years to breed out the "cover-up" culture that has been ingrained in AGS for years.

Although the arresting Guards couldn't help their colleague cover-up at the scene of the incident (if these particular Guards were inclined to do so) because of witnesses etc. then they may have been able to help him later on, ie. drive the long way slowly to the station, take their time processing him ......... basically delay taking the blood sample for as long as possible ......... time will tell ......... or maybe it won't

Little CuChulainn

MadDog76 wrote: »

It hasn't been confirmed one way or the other if the Guard left the scene of the incident ........ as he was released without charge I suspect he was in fact arrested at the scene and did not flee.

The fact that he was released without charge would suggest that he either passed a breathalyser test or refused to do one and was subsequently blood-tested ....... meaning he won't be charged with drink driving until the results come back and he fails.

If there had been no witnesses or civilians involved in this incident he may not have been arrested at all .......... the Force is currently under-going a reformation but it's a slow process and will take years to breed out the "cover-up" culture that has been ingrained in AGS for years.

Although the arresting Guards couldn't help their colleague cover-up at the scene of the incident (if these particular Guards were inclined to do so) because of witnesses etc. then they may have been able to help him later on, ie. drive the long way slowly to the station, take their time processing him ......... basically delay getting the blood sample for as long as possible ......... time will tell ......... or maybe it won't

So despite them doing everything correctly, you are satisfied to use this incident as evidence of organisation wide corruption. Just goes to show that it's a no-win situation for Gardaí when it comes to some people.

MadDog76

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So despite them doing everything correctly, you are satisfied to use this incident as evidence of organisation wide corruption. Just goes to show that it's a no-win situation for Gardaí when it comes to some people.

LOL No .......... that's not what I said at all.

I said corruption and cover-ups (while slowly declining) do still exist within AGS so when an incident such as this one occurs it's hardly surprising that people are a little suspicious ...........

Has there been/will there be a helping hand lent to the Guard in this incident by his colleagues or will the arresting Guards follow procedure to the letter without any biased whatsoever??? I don't know, I'd say it's 50/50 ........ or 60/40 ......... or 70/30 .......... maybe

Potential-Monke

I dream of a world where people base their views on facts...

Re"guard"less (ba-dum-tish) of whether the 3rd driver fled the scene or not, he was arrested. Back at the station, he would have been given the opportunity to give a breath sample. Failure or refusal results in a charge. If, on medical grounds, he could not provide a breath sample, he is given the opportunity to provide a urine or blood sample. Failure or refusal is a charge.

Now, due to the situation, i'd imagine a file is being prepared, and that is why he was released without charge. It's not just a simple case of charging someone with drink driving (over, failure or refusal), statements would need to be made, cctv checked, PSV reports awaited, etc. It will take a few months i'd imagine to get everything together. Then, a file will be sent to the DPP (either by GSOC or AGS, or both) and once the DPP's decision has been made, and if it's to proceed with anything, then that person can be rearrested for the purpose of charge, or summons can be issued.

This is a common, every day process that thousands go through. Not everyone is charge when they are arrested, especially so where there are other factors to consider, as there are in this case. The problem with charging someone, is that due to court rulings, there is a small window of time to get all the evidence together to give to the defence solicitor. If it goes over this time-frame (42 days), the case will either fall or anything not included may not be allowed to be included on the day. Releasing someone without charge gives AGS 6 or more months to get everything together.

And for those saying that the Gardaí are still like those in the 90's. No, they are definitely not. Yes, there are some Gardaí who are attempting to cling onto the "good days", but between GSOC, social media and cameras, those days are very close to being well and truly numbered.

tayto lover

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I dream of a world where people base their views on facts...

Re"guard"less (ba-dum-tish) of whether the 3rd driver fled the scene or not, he was arrested. Back at the station, he would have been given the opportunity to give a breath sample. Failure or refusal results in a charge. If, on medical grounds, he could not provide a breath sample, he is given the opportunity to provide a urine or blood sample. Failure or refusal is a charge.

Now, due to the situation, i'd imagine a file is being prepared, and that is why he was released without charge. It's not just a simple case of charging someone with drink driving (over, failure or refusal), statements would need to be made, cctv checked, PSV reports awaited, etc. It will take a few months i'd imagine to get everything together. Then, a file will be sent to the DPP (either by GSOC or AGS, or both) and once the DPP's decision has been made, and if it's to proceed with anything, then that person can be rearrested for the purpose of charge, or summons can be issued.

This is a common, every day process that thousands go through. Not everyone is charge when they are arrested, especially so where there are other factors to consider, as there are in this case. The problem with charging someone, is that due to court rulings, there is a small window of time to get all the evidence together to give to the defence solicitor. If it goes over this time-frame (42 days), the case will either fall or anything not included may not be allowed to be included on the day. Releasing someone without charge gives AGS 6 or more months to get everything together.
If he's found guilty in court does he lose his job too?
Just asking as I was told that happened in a previous case.
And for those saying that the Gardaí are still like those in the 90's. No, they are definitely not. Yes, there are some Gardaí who are attempting to cling onto the "good days", but between GSOC, social media and cameras, those days are very close to being well and truly numbered.

If he is found guilty in court does he lose his job too?
Just asking as I have been told it happened previously to another garda.

MadDog76

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I dream of a world where people base their views on facts...

Re"guard"less (ba-dum-tish) of whether the 3rd driver fled the scene or not, he was arrested. Back at the station, he would have been given the opportunity to give a breath sample. Failure or refusal results in a charge. If, on medical grounds, he could not provide a breath sample, he is given the opportunity to provide a urine or blood sample. Failure or refusal is a charge.

Now, due to the situation, i'd imagine a file is being prepared, and that is why he was released without charge. It's not just a simple case of charging someone with drink driving (over, failure or refusal), statements would need to be made, cctv checked, PSV reports awaited, etc. It will take a few months i'd imagine to get everything together. Then, a file will be sent to the DPP (either by GSOC or AGS, or both) and once the DPP's decision has been made, and if it's to proceed with anything, then that person can be rearrested for the purpose of charge, or summons can be issued.

This is a common, every day process that thousands go through. Not everyone is charge when they are arrested, especially so where there are other factors to consider, as there are in this case. The problem with charging someone, is that due to court rulings, there is a small window of time to get all the evidence together to give to the defence solicitor. If it goes over this time-frame (42 days), the case will either fall or anything not included may not be allowed to be included on the day. Releasing someone without charge gives AGS 6 or more months to get everything together.

And for those saying that the Gardaí are still like those in the 90's. No, they are definitely not. Yes, there are some Gardaí who are attempting to cling onto the "good days", but between GSOC, social media and cameras, those days are very close to being well and truly numbered.

GSOC has admitted that Guards are not only uncooperative during investigations but downright hostile .........

Social media .......... lots of huff & puff but no real threat to Guards.

Camera's ......... do not see everything.

MadDog76

tayto lover wrote: »

If he is found guilty in court does he lose his job too?
Just asking as I have been told it happened previously to another garda.

Is that a serious question???

If he's found guilty of drink driving, smashing into two vehicles and fleeing the scene you wonder if he'll be allowed to continue being an Officer of the Law!?!

tayto lover

MadDog76 wrote: »

Is that a serious question???

If he's found guilty of drink driving, smashing into two vehicles and fleeing the scene you wonder if he'll be allowed to continue being an Officer of the Law!?!

What I meant was if a garda is convicted of drunk driving does he automatically lose his job?

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

What I meant was if a garda is convicted of drunk driving does he automatically lose his job?

No

tayto lover

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

No

Cheers,
The lad I was talking was talking rubbish then.

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

Cheers,
The lad I was talking was talking rubbish then.

It's not written in stone but it's a very likely outcome.

MadDog76

tayto lover wrote: »

What I meant was if a garda is convicted of drunk driving does he automatically lose his job?

If he is convicted the Garda Commissioner will hold him in breach of Garda Disciplinary Regulations and he will be summarily dismissed.

The Commissioner has power of dismissal without an inquiry ........

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

If he is convicted the Garda Commissioner will hold him in breach of Garda Disciplinary Regulations and he will be summarily dismissed.

The Commissioner has power of dismissal without an inquiry ........

And you know this because,.....

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

And you know this because,.....

I'm what Rednecks call a "reader" ............ :rolleyes:

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

I'm what Rednecks call a "reader" ............ :rolleyes:

Of fiction!

ohnonotgmail

MadDog76 wrote: »

I'm what Rednecks call a "reader" ............ :rolleyes:

[Bill Hicks]What ye reading for?[/Bill Hicks]

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

Of fiction!

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-far-less-likely-to-be-convicted-in-court-than-the-general-public-1.1823204

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-sergeant-convicted-of-assault-loses-challenge-against-dismissal-30761061.html

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-far-less-likely-to-be-convicted-in-court-than-the-general-public-1.1823204

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-sergeant-convicted-of-assault-loses-challenge-against-dismissal-30761061.html

Did the driver of the car assault someone?

sdanseo

MadDog76 wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda%C3%AD-far-less-likely-to-be-convicted-in-court-than-the-general-public-1.1823204

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/garda-sergeant-convicted-of-assault-loses-challenge-against-dismissal-30761061.html

I wonder are they more likely to be brought before the courts though? Is there an element of them being held to a higher standard by GSOC/DPP and then a judge applies leniency regardless?

tayto lover

sdanseo wrote: »

I wonder are they more likely to be brought before the courts though? Is there an element of them being held to a higher standard by GSOC/DPP and then a judge applies leniency regardless?

I was wondering if the problem for the judge if he convicts and jails them is where to then put them?
They would probably be assaulted in prisons by other inmates because of their jobs.

crusier

sdanseo wrote: »

I wonder are they more likely to be brought before the courts though? Is there an element of them being held to a higher standard by GSOC/DPP and then a judge applies leniency regardless?

Many of the cases would never be taken against civilians and the DPP would direct no prosecution, however the attitude of the DPP seems to be to let the cases into court and let a judge or jury dismiss it and the DPP's office cannot be accused of not supporting a prosecution, that's why so many cases are lost - they shouldn't be there in the first place!

Potential-Monke

MadDog76 wrote: »

GSOC has admitted that Guards are not only uncooperative during investigations but downright hostile .........

Social media .......... lots of huff & puff but no real threat to Guards.

Camera's ......... do not see everything.

And GSOC are the beacon of perfection...

Social media is more of a threat than you think.

And cameras don't see everything, but they see enough to make someone think twice before acting.

MadDog76

Potential-Monke wrote: »

And GSOC are the beacon of perfection...

Social media is more of a threat than you think.

And cameras don't see everything, but they see enough to make someone think twice before acting.

Therefore GSOC is ineffective ...........

Examples of Social Media stopping corruption in AGS please?

Any links to footage of AGS corruption?

sdanseo

MadDog76 wrote: »

Therefore GSOC is ineffective ...........

Examples of Social Media stopping corruption in AGS please?

Any links to footage of AGS corruption?

I've seen videos which seem to show Gardaí acting harshly and seen videos showing Gardaí acting exceptionally well. Mostly the latter.

Unfortunately almost all of the videos were followed by comments labelling the Guards as scum and other assorted names. This is the type of uneducated twat that you deal with when you talk about people who film the Guards (or any other Police force) seemingly just to find fault.

I'm not saying that they don't sometimes - and rightly so - catch out people abusing their authority. It annoys me though that the vast majority of cop-filming seems to be intended against them when no such intention is justified.

MadDog76

sdanseo wrote: »

I've seen videos which seem to show Gardaí acting harshly and seen videos showing Gardaí acting exceptionally well. Mostly the latter.

Unfortunately almost all of the videos were followed by comments labelling the Guards as scum and other assorted names. This is the type of uneducated twat that you deal with when you talk about people who film the Guards (or any other Police force) seemingly just to find fault.

I've seen those videos too but that's not really what we're discussing here .......... where's the videos of Guards seizing "stolen" goods from certain groups of people in society because they have no proof of purchase only for those same "stolen" goods to go home with a Garda......... where's the videos of Guards taking alcohol off under-age drinkers only for that alcohol to be then drank at a Guard's summer bbq .......... where's the videos of Guards letting their family/friends off with a wink & a nod ............ where's the videos of the Guards assaulting handcuffed "suspects" in the back of a squad car down a quiet lane way .............. where's the videos of Guards "losing" and "finding" evidence????? Where's the videos of Guards turning a blind-eye to all of this?

Oh wait, there are no videos because none of these things actually happen ............. :rolleyes:

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've seen those videos too but that's not really what we're discussing here .......... where's the videos of Guards seizing "stolen" goods from certain groups of people in society because they have no proof of purchase only for those same "stolen" goods to go home with a Garda......... where's the videos of Guards taking alcohol off under-age drinkers only for that alcohol to be then drank at a Guard's summer bbq .......... where's the videos of Guards letting their family/friends off with a wink & a nod ............ where's the videos of the Guards assaulting handcuffed "suspects" in the back of a squad car down a quiet lane way .............. where's the videos of Guards "losing" and "finding" evidence????? Where's the videos of Guards turning a blind-eye to all of this?

Oh wait, there are no videos because none of these things actually happen ............. :rolleyes:

Did one of them take you cans?

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

Did one of them take you cans?

No but I've drank one of those cans .......... at a bbq in a Guards back garden ........ big laugh when I was told where the drink came from ....... the only problem was not everybody was laughing, mostly just the other Guards.

sdanseo

MadDog76 wrote: »

I've seen those videos too but that's not really what we're discussing here .......... where's the videos of Guards seizing "stolen" goods from certain groups of people in society because they have no proof of purchase only for those same "stolen" goods to go home with a Garda......... where's the videos of Guards taking alcohol off under-age drinkers only for that alcohol to be then drank at a Guard's summer bbq .......... where's the videos of Guards letting their family/friends off with a wink & a nod ............ where's the videos of the Guards assaulting handcuffed "suspects" in the back of a squad car down a quiet lane way .............. where's the videos of Guards "losing" and "finding" evidence????? Where's the videos of Guards turning a blind-eye to all of this?

Oh wait, there are no videos because none of these things actually happen ............. :rolleyes:

Corruption happens in every walk of life and when people keep doing it they get caught out. It's completely wrong, but you're asking for evidence of people doing things they know to be wrong to be handed to you on a silver platter.

You're accusing them of being corrupt. Doesn't mean they're stupid.

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

No but I've drank one of those cans .......... at a bbq in a Guards back garden ........ big laugh when I was told where the drink came from ....... the only problem was not everybody was laughing, mostly just the other Guards.

But you drank it?

MadDog76

sdanseo wrote: »

Corruption happens in every walk of life and when people keep doing it they get caught out. It's completely wrong, but you're asking for evidence of people doing things they know to be wrong to be handed to you on a silver platter.

You're accusing them of being corrupt. Doesn't mean they're stupid.

Actually if you read the thread I'm saying exactly that ......... another poster believes that corruption is all but non-existent nowadays because cameras would capture this corruption on film .......... I'm saying it won't/doesn't because, as you said, being corrupt doesn't make you stupid.

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

But you drank it?

Yes ......... then I was told where it came from followed by a big chuckle from the host.

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

Did the driver of the car assault someone?

Did he assault any of the three people who were hospitalised after he ploughed into them leaving them lucky to be alive? No he didn't as far as I know :rolleyes:

MadDog76

crusier wrote: »

Many of the cases would never be taken against civilians and the DPP would direct no prosecution, however the attitude of the DPP seems to be to let the cases into court and let a judge or jury dismiss it and the DPP's office cannot be accused of not supporting a prosecution, that's why so many cases are lost - they shouldn't be there in the first place!

Which cases exactly should never be taken to court???

Little CuChulainn

MadDog76 wrote: »

Actually if you read the thread I'm saying exactly that ......... another poster believes that corruption is all but non-existent nowadays because cameras would capture this corruption on film .......... I'm saying it won't/doesn't because, as you said, being corrupt doesn't make you stupid.

And when there aren't cameras there are people like yourself to fill the gap. Incidentally, the stuff you mention rarely happens now. Property is heavily audited, both on paper and computer, and there have been disciplinary measures and prosecutions of people who do the things you've mentioned.

You made a number of accusations and presented them as fact, yet you ask others to provide evidence of them for you and act as if the failure to do so is somehow vindication for you. I think it's fairly obvious you have a personal agenda mixed in with your righteous crusade that makes it difficult to try and discuss it rationally with you.

joe swanson

MadDog76 wrote: »

Which cases exactly should never be taken to court???

How about this:

http://m.rte.ie/news/2014/0106/496274-court-gardai-cork/

crusier

joe swanson wrote: »

How about this:

http://m.rte.ie/news/2014/0106/496274-court-gardai-cork/

I didn't even go searching because nothing will make him happy, he must have fallen foul of the law at some stage to be so bitter, there's always a story behind the bitterness!

kerry4sam

From what I know right now it is still 'suspicion of drink-driving'. Could their have been a mechanical fault in his vehicle? Could their have been a hazard of some kind on the road that he tried to avoid and just couldn't correct his car in time before this collision? I don't know.
I do know I can take a positive from this: He was taken to the Garda Station. He knew the Guard working the original scene so I've no doubts that a favour was asked for, but denied. I don't know just how long it took to get it processed, but he was processed <- that's a positive in my eyes.

I remember this one Guard I knew who couldn't even define honesty and I reported him for an incident to a unit Sgt. Not long after that he was giving evidence in Court with another colleague and the Judge just dismissed everything that Guard said. He brightened up my days for a while so it did that the Judge knew his antics.
These Guards who brought this off-duty Guard to be processed are displaying what I'm seeing more & more of, a new era in Policing. The cogs are slowing turning within this organisation <- another positive in my eyes.

A lot of Garda-bashing in here, but with so much yet to be made known. This incident could've happened anyone really; mechanical fault; distraction of some kind; an un-expected hazard throwing a driver off course. In this case, the driver just happens to be a Guard who was, let's not forget, processed at a station.

Just my Thoughts,
kerry4sam

Mesrine65

Unfortunately wherever there is power, corruption isn't far behind.

I'd hazard a guess that corrupt Garda are a minority within the force, but the few bad apples that are there unfortunately muddy the reputation of the organisation.

No one should underestimate the difficult job gardaí face daily, it is often a thankless task & one very few of us would have the cahones to do.

MadDog76

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And when there aren't cameras there are people like yourself to fill the gap. Incidentally, the stuff you mention rarely happens now. Property is heavily audited, both on paper and computer, and there have been disciplinary measures and prosecutions of people who do the things you've mentioned.

You made a number of accusations and presented them as fact, yet you ask others to provide evidence of them for you and act as if the failure to do so is somehow vindication for you. I think it's fairly obvious you have a personal agenda mixed in with your righteous crusade that makes it difficult to try and discuss it rationally with you.

crusier wrote: »

I didn't even go searching because nothing will make him happy, he must have fallen foul of the law at some stage to be so bitter, there's always a story behind the bitterness!

It might surprise you to know just how close I am to a number of people who are members of AGS ............. close enough to know the truth as it happens.

crusier

MadDog76 wrote: »

It might surprise you to know just how close I am to a number of people who are members of AGS ............. close enough to know the truth as it happens.

Do ye have code words and stuff?

MadDog76

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Unfortunately wherever there is power, corruption isn't far behind.

I'd hazard a guess that corrupt Garda are a minority within the force, but the few bad apples that are there unfortunately muddy the reputation of the organisation.

No one should underestimate the difficult job gardaí face daily, it is often a thankless task & one very few of us would have the cahones to do.

I would agree with this ........... I think the real problem with AGS is not the corrupt Officers as they are an ever decreasing minority .......... it's the fact that the majority of Guards turn a blind eye to the corruption and, in many cases, assist or just "go along with" cover-ups.

MadDog76

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

And when there aren't cameras there are people like yourself to fill the gap. Incidentally, the stuff you mention rarely happens now. Property is heavily audited, both on paper and computer, and there have been disciplinary measures and prosecutions of people who do the things you've mentioned.

You made a number of accusations and presented them as fact, yet you ask others to provide evidence of them for you and act as if the failure to do so is somehow vindication for you. I think it's fairly obvious you have a personal agenda mixed in with your righteous crusade that makes it difficult to try and discuss it rationally with you.

crusier wrote: »

Do ye have code words and stuff?

I think the high-lighted part of your post is an adequate response to you ..........

Little CuChulainn

MadDog76 wrote: »

It might surprise you to know just how close I am to a number of people who are members of AGS ............. close enough to know the truth as it happens.

MadDog76 wrote: »

I think the high-lighted part of your post is an adequate response to you ..........

I think that the fact you had to quote and respond to the same posts twice just to make a childish comment is pretty indicative of the thought you are putting into them. And I doubt you are as close to members of the AGS as you think you are.

MadDog76

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I think that the fact you had to quote and respond to the same posts twice just to make a childish comment is pretty indicative of the thought you are putting into them. And I doubt you are as close to members of the AGS as you think you are.

Oh you doubt it do you ......... oh well then ........... I'll have to tell certain family members that we are no longer related and certain friends that we can no longer be friends .......... all because Lil Cuhicu doubts we're that close :rolleyes: