Plane crash in Alps ### MOD NOTE 1st POST

tayto lover

Tearin It Up wrote: »

I hate this ****, its a plane full of people and there's always someone who comes along hope its not a plane of kids. Somehow, its OK if there's no children on the plane.

Not having children on the plane doesn't make it any way better.

148 lives lost. Its a terrible tragedy.

I didn't say anything about that at all.
I said if you were on the plane it would make it worse for you if you had your children with you.
Wind your neck in.
The only **** came from you.

The Hill Billy

I cannot bear to think what that 9 minute rapid descent must have been like. I'll be flying home from Düsseldorf this evening. Not looking forward to it tbh.

Kerrydude1981

Just seeing this now,shocking stuff,

RIP

Menas

OSI wrote: »

And how would you get it there? There's not exactly an abundance of 3G at 38,000ft or in the middle of an ocean.

No need to be so pedantic, not on a thread like this. There are many other ways than 3g to get data off an aircraft.

Aglomerado

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/d-aipx/#5d42675

Jesus.

RIP.

emeldc

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't say anything about that at all.
I said if you were on the plane it would make it worse for you if you had your children with you.
Wind your neck in.
The only **** came from you.

I was on a flight to Greece once that went into an absolute nosedive for about 60secs (felt like 10 mins). There were screams of terror throughout the plane, stuff flying out of overhead bins, the works. The woman beside me was crying her eyes out as were a lot of the adults. All the kids, including my own thought it was great craic. Just sayin' loike.

seamus

OSI wrote: »

And how would you get it there? There's not exactly an abundance of 3G at 38,000ft or in the middle of an ocean.

Not really the thread for it, but considering that you can get WiFi in the middle of the Atlantic, it's not a major hurdle. Dedicated satellite antenna on the aircraft could ensure that the data on the black box is kept synced as much as possible. You'd still need a black box in the event that the satellite went out, but at the very least in that case you'd have everything that occurred up to that point rather than nothing at all.

I'm sure you can have a robust discussion on it in the aviation forum if you're interested.

sammy37

OSI wrote: »

There is, but the infrastructure does not exist to support the vast amount of data that would need to be sent. You're looking at 50,000+ flights a day that would need to be constantly sending data via satellite. It's just odd that people think this sort of stuff is run of the mill, and engineers are just shrugging off the ability to do so because they can't be bothered. Look at the amount of systems and millions on design that go into an aircraft, if it was doable, it'd be done.

It just said on the news that it can be done but the airlines wont invest in it.They also said that rolls royce gets data from all its engines that are flying on a constant basis sent down to its headquarters. So it seems the technology is there only to invest in it.

tayto lover

emeldc wrote: »

I was on a flight to Greece once that went into an absolute nosedive for about 60secs (felt like 10 mins). There were screams of terror throughout the plane, stuff flying out of overhead bins, the works. The woman beside me was crying her eyes out as were a lot of the adults. All the kids, including my own thought it was great craic. Just sayin' loike.

Maybe but I was talking as a parent i.e. fearing your kids were going to die.

Tearin It Up

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't say anything about that at all.
I said if you were on the plane it would make it worse for you if you had your children with you.
Wind your neck in.
The only **** came from you.

Excuse me, wind my neck in?

Your post from the aviation & aircraft thread "hope there were no kids on it".

I hope so too, but no way does it make it any way better and that's the way I read your posts.

Soups123

Tearin It Up wrote: »

Excuse me, wind my neck in?

Your post from the aviation & aircraft thread "hope there were no kids on it".

I hope so too, but no way does it make it any way better and that's the way I read your posts.

So you read it wrong then, sorted.

Tearin It Up

Tearin It Up wrote: »

Excuse me, wind my neck in?

Your post from the aviation & aircraft thread "hope there were no kids on it".

I hope so too, but no way does it make it any way better and that's the way I read your posts.

It's been explained to you a number of times what he meant. You'd have been better apologising for your initial aggression when you took him up wrong tbh.

G_R

Tearin It Up wrote: »

Excuse me, wind my neck in?

Your post from the aviation & aircraft thread "hope there were no kids on it".

I hope so too, but no way does it make it any way better and that's the way I read your posts.

tayto lover wrote: »

I didn't say anything about that at all.
I said if you were on the plane it would make it worse for you if you had your children with you.
Wind your neck in.
The only **** came from you.

Mod

Alright lads, knock it off. Not the time or the thread.

Menas

OSI wrote: »

There is, but the infrastructure does not exist to support the vast amount of data that would need to be sent. You're looking at 50,000+ flights a day that would need to be constantly sending data via satellite. It's just odd that people think this sort of stuff is run of the mill, and engineers are just shrugging off the ability to do so because they can't be bothered. Look at the amount of systems and millions on design that go into an aircraft, if it was doable, it'd be done.

The Iridium network can support this amount of data. And there are solutions on the market today, but low uptake due to cost.

kowloon

murpho999 wrote: »

People always say this but it's not really.

They make big news but are still rare events.

Over a million people die every year on the roads and people think cars are safe whilst less than a thousand died on civil aircraft in 2014.

I think most reasonable people know aircraft are safe, but with the two Malaysian Airlines flights getting so much attention it is a bad time for aviation's reputation, despite reality being very different.

Dr Strange

RIP to all. Unfortunately, children where also involved:

John Walton @thatjohn
Follow

45 #4U9525 passengers (incl 2 children) were Spanish, FR government says. Majority of the rest were German.
12:26 PM - 24 Mar 2015

tayto lover

When the plane seems to have got into trouble and began to descend there was an airport 11 miles away according to CNN. It could have made it there easily according to their expert. I wonder why it continued on for 140 miles before crashing then?

RoryMac

tayto lover wrote: »

When the plane seems to have got into trouble and began to descend there was an airport 11 miles away according to CNN. It could have made it there easily according to their expert. I wonder why it continued on for 140 miles before crashing then?

I'd imagine the crew were struggling to control the aircraft due to whatever issue caused the trouble

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

When the plane seems to have got into trouble and began to descend there was an airport 11 miles away according to CNN. It could have made it there easily according to their expert. I wonder why it continued on for 140 miles before crashing then?

38k feet is about 7 miles, not exactly feasible to do a controlled landing like that. That it went straight on has a couple of possible explanations but I'd be sure the true one will come out soon.

kneemos

sammy37 wrote: »

It just said on the news that it can be done but the airlines wont invest in it.They also said that rolls royce gets data from all its engines that are flying on a constant basis sent down to its headquarters. So it seems the technology is there only to invest in it.

With the very rare exception black boxes are found anyway.
Is there much to be gained from getting the information a day or two sooner?

Streetwalker

tayto lover wrote: »

When the plane seems to have got into trouble and began to descend there was an airport 11 miles away according to CNN. It could have made it there easily according to their expert. I wonder why it continued on for 140 miles before crashing then?

Sight seeing?

Too early?

G_R

Streetwalker wrote: »

Sight seeing?

Too early?

Mod

Way too early.

seamus

kneemos wrote: »

With the very rare exception black boxes are found anyway.
Is there much to be gained from getting the information a day or two sooner?

Yes, actually
If you have a live feed of data coming from black boxes, you can use smart systems to analyse this data while the aircraft is in the air and give early warning of potential issues.
The pilots too will get this kind of information, but they consume it in a very different manner. Think of it like phonewatch for aircraft.
In this particular instance, rather than the pilots receiving a warning and experiencing *something*, alerting the ground and trying to solve it, within 30 seconds of the incident they would have an operator on the line with them who has 20 dashboards in front of him telling him what exactly is wrong with the aircraft, so he can provide expert assistance and guidance to the pilots. He could also potentially issue overriding commands to the autopilot in the event that the pilots are incapacitated.

force eleven

Some speculation that their might have been a collision or partial collision with a fighter jet on exercises in the Alps. But then that poses all sorts of other questions, and meanwhile a rescue operation is ongoing...

G_R

force eleven wrote: »

Some speculation that their might have been a collision or partial collision with a fighter jet on exercises in the Alps. But then that poses all sorts of other questions, and meanwhile a rescue operation is ongoing...

Have you got a link for that?

Tarzana2

Deathwish4 wrote: »

Horrible time for Aviation.

Not really, it's as safe as it's ever been, there's just been a few howlers in the last year.

Anyway, awful stuff. I always hate to think of the terror of the last moments. RIP.

Bob24

Reading contradictory information about the crew sending a mayday call.

Some saying they did inform air traffic control of an issue and some saying air traffic control themselves declared the plane to be an emergency situation when they saw it loosing altitude too quickly.

force eleven

Grand_Rajnah wrote: »

Have you got a link for that?

No, I have seen speculation on other sites, no more than that. In due course we should get an idea as to what happened.

seamus

force eleven wrote: »

Some speculation that their might have been a collision or partial collision with a fighter jet on exercises in the Alps. But then that poses all sorts of other questions, and meanwhile a rescue operation is ongoing...

There are a few graphs floating around on reddit from flight radar showing a very smooth descent by the aircraft of about 1km/minute at a steady velocity.

This is consistent with an autopilot emergency descent which would happen in the event of a loss of cabin pressure.

Now, military aircraft are pretty light and a grazing collision might just cause hull damage and depressurisation of the A320. But if it was in any way a catastrophic collision, the recorded descent of the A320's hull wouldn't be at all even and smooth.

Seems like a pretty far-fetched theory.

leahyl

Awful, awful news. Thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends of the deceased.

Bob24

Footage of the crash area by a French TV channel ... Not much to see but the video seems to confirms reports that the site can only be reached using helicopters.

Bob24

And several media now confirming no distress call was made by the pilot.

Buona Fortuna

Very sad. I see the news is now saying that there was a school trip on the plane as well.

the_monkey

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I cannot bear to think what that 9 minute rapid descent must have been like. I'll be flying home from Düsseldorf this evening. Not looking forward to it tbh.

Relax, I have a fear of flying despite a great interest in Aviation, just think of this stat, it really helps me - you would need to fly everyday for 26,000 years to "guarantee" getting killed on a plane crash.

Egginacup

P_1 wrote: »

Not a route you'd expect to see a bird down on.

RIP to all aboard.

What do you mean?

Tokyo

Bob24 wrote: »

And several media now confirming no distress call was made by the pilot.

In the event of a flight emergency – aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. In short, keep the plane flying, everything else can wait. From what I gathered of the news coverage so far, the pilots didn't make an official mayday distress call - they announced 'emergency, emergency' over the radio before the crash. I'd imagine they were too busy trying to stop the plane from plummeting

Dr Strange

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Very sad. I see the news is now saying that there was a school trip on the plane as well.

Yes, apparently 2 babies and 16 pupils of a German school class:

thejournal.ie wrote:

There were two babies on board, and further fears for 16 children from a German school.

Mallagio

I just hope they were all unconscious well before impact.

Very sad news.

5starpool

Egginacup wrote: »

What do you mean?

By bird he means airplane, and the rest is saying that you don't often hear of plane crashes like this in Western Europe, which is true.

The Hill Billy

the_monkey wrote: »

Relax, I have a fear of flying despite a great interest in Aviation, just think of this stat, it really helps me - you would need to fly everyday for 26,000 years to "guarantee" getting killed on a plane crash.

I've flown over 600k miles in the past six years - the flying doesn't bother me. It is being in Düsseldorf airport this evening that I am not looking forward to. I'd imagine that the atmosphere will be grim to say the least.

JP Liz V1

RIP to all on board

JONJO THE MISER

Looking at flight radar it seems to not off flown on its projected course from takeoff.

That's not its projected path if you're talking about the straight line.

Kerrydude1981

Sky reporting that the black box has been located

dfx-

That picture of the mountain/wreckage is quite a devastating image. It looks to be in thousands of pieces rather than major and minor chunks

The Aussie

mike_ie wrote: »

In the event of a flight emergency – aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. In short, keep the plane flying, everything else can wait. From what I gathered of the news coverage so far, the pilots didn't make an official mayday distress call - they announced 'emergency, emergency' over the radio before the crash. I'd imagine they were too busy trying to stop the plane from plummeting

Do you think sudden decompression could have knocked everyone out quick enough.
Didn't that happen to an aircraft flying near Italy(?) about 10 years ago and it ended up having to be brought down by the Air Force?

IvyTheTerrible

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Sky reporting that the black box has been located

One of them anyway, it's not clear which yet.

Bob24

The Aussie wrote: »

Do you think sudden decompression could have knocked ever dony out quick enough.
Didn't that happen to an aircraft flying near Italy(?) about 10 years ago and it ended up having to be brought down by the Air Force?

From what I have been reading, the plane was going down too quickly for it to be "natural".

Bob24

Footage showing the debris and the search team. Crazy :-/

JONJO THE MISER

Reports that there might be a survivor.