Plane crash in Alps ### MOD NOTE 1st POST

seamus

Tugboats wrote: »

pilots named

Cue the US media scramble to find some link to Islam, however tenuous.

"The co-pilot's kindergarten teacher's 3rd wife grew up in an area of Pakistan well-known as a breeding ground for terrorists"

Thargor

From the press conference it looks like the junior officer waited until the pilot went to the bathroom then locked him out and initiated the descent into the mountain, pilot trying to force the door to get back in all the way down, holy sh1t...

bjork

Sounds of a chair being pushed back against the door>> It's not looking random

Co-pilot started plane's descent
"Then we hear the commander asking the co-pilot to take over.

"Then we hear the sound of a chair being pushed back on the door closing.

"The co-pilot uses the flight monitoring system to start the descent of the plane.

"This action can only be voluntary - it is not automatic."
Co-pilot started plane's descent
"Then we hear the commander asking the co-pilot to take over.

"Then we hear the sound of a chair being pushed back on the door closing.

"The co-pilot uses the flight monitoring system to start the descent of the plane.

"This action can only be voluntary - it is not automatic."

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/germanwings-plane-crash-live-updates-5401806


We hear breathing and you can hear this breathing until the moment of impact, so we know the co-pilot was still alive. at this point.

murpho999

Wow, this is worse news than an accident.

At least with accidents, an investigation can be done, fault found and an improvement made for the future.

Pilots deliberately crashing planes for whatever reason just can't be accounted for.
They will have to rethink policies on cockpit access now.

What an awful waste of life.

seamus

Looks like it's time to remove the locks on cockpit doors again. All it does is make it easier for someone to take malicious control of an aircraft.

bjork

Mr Robin says the co-pilot "never said a word" in the 10 minutes before the crash.

He said he never answer a question or opened the door before the plane hit the ground.

He says the planes descent was "voluntary".

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/germanwings-plane-crash-live-updates-5401806

Harry Palmr

Suicide?

bjork

German , ethnicity unknown, not listed as terrorists

Sand

Difficult to "fix" this. The cockpit security is in place for very good reasons that haven't changed - there cant be an override to open the door from the outside: any code or override could be forced from the crew by threats or violence.

Only way I can see is that you have a minimum of 3 pilots on any flight, and 2 pilots remain in the cabin at all times. Which budget airlines will have a problem with. Of course, depending on the co-pilots particular motivations there would need to also be constant and routine psychological evaluation.

Either way, its horrific. If its not political, if its just suicide, then its an incredibly selfish act.

CruelCoin

murpho999 wrote: »

They will have to rethink policies on cockpit access now.

Retina scanners, anything.

The idea that going for a piss leaves you open to the murder of hundreds is absurd.

the nikkei is rising

seamus wrote: »

Cue the US media scramble to find some link to Islam, however tenuous.

"The co-pilot's kindergarten teacher's 3rd wife grew up in an area of Pakistan well-known as a breeding ground for terrorists"

Patrick. Undoubtedly a 'RA man.

CruelCoin

Sand wrote: »

Either way, its horrific. If its not political, if its just suicide, then its an incredibly selfish act.

Suicide is too soft.

It's murder, plain and simple.

He murdered over 140 people. Call it what it is.

35cent

So it was a murder-suicide then. If he wanted to kill himself, fine but he took over 140 people with him which makes him a scumbag.

Polo_Mint

Tugboats wrote: »

pilots named

Whats their names?

PropJoe10

So now we need self-flying planes. God help the poor families, is all I can say.

Sand

CruelCoin wrote: »

Suicide is too soft.

It's murder, plain and simple.

He murdered over 140 people. Call it what it is.

I was referring to his motivation, not the act itself.

Knex*

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Suicide?

One suicide, 149 murdered.

I could be wrong, and perhaps it matters little to them, but for me this would make it so much worse for the families.

Senseless

Nodin

Polo_Mint wrote: »

Whats their names?

"The co-pilot, now named as Andreas Lubitz, was alive until the final impact, the prosecutors added."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32063587

Sand

PropJoe10 wrote: »

So now we need self-flying planes. God help the poor families, is all I can say.

Does go to demonstrate (again) that the weakest and riskiest part of the plane are the pilots. The single biggest cause of air accidents by far (greatly exceeding mechanical failure, weather, sabotage) is pilot error. The passengers are safest when the auto-pilot is engaged, its when the human takes over that people ought to get concerned.

Harry Palmr

Knex. wrote: »

One suicide, 149 murdered.

I could be wrong, and perhaps it matters little to them, but for me this would make it so much worse for the families.

Senseless

Far worse for me, mechanical failure somehow can seem like bad luck, terrorism likewise and you can blame "evil people". The wilful act of someone who is presumably suffering undiagnosed depression is another matter.

It also may leave the carrier very open to a legal action.

eviltwin

I wonder what his motivation was. I don't want to think about how the families involved cope with this especially his.

Maximus Alexander

I keep hearing that planes fly themselves these days. Can we not just ditch the pilots? Get rid of the cockpit - more room for passenger seating. The airlines would love it.

Streetwalker

eviltwin wrote: »

I wonder what his motivation was. I don't want to think about how the families involved cope with this especially his.

God knows. Have to say it I'm relieved this guy wasn't a Muslim that's all they needed right now. I suppose ordinary people lose it every day but it takes a particular kind of scumbag to take innocents with them.

Streetwalker

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I keep hearing that planes fly themselves these days. Can we not just ditch the pilots? Get rid of the cockpit - more room for passenger seating. The airlines would love it.

When that happens i'll never step foot on a plane again.

Falthyron

The investigator states the co-pilot was breathing normally. Surely, the decision to kill yourself and the interim period (being 8 minutes) would raise heart-rate, blood pressure and breathing!? If it was a suicide, I find the normal breathing the most baffling part...

Tugboats

He was only 28

Polo_Mint

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I keep hearing that planes fly themselves these days. Can we not just ditch the pilots? Get rid of the cockpit - more room for passenger seating. The airlines would love it.

No......... You need Human instinct also

SEPT 23 1989

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I keep hearing that planes fly themselves these days. Can we not just ditch the pilots? Get rid of the cockpit - more room for passenger seating. The airlines would love it.

they will never get insurance without a human at the controls

porsche959

How come they know so quickly, he must have left a note or something?

FalconGirl

The Moruga Scorpion wrote: »

Who knows? If I was betting on it though I'd say he found out his wife was cheating on him and or his child is not really his.

If you look throughout history thus has often been a cause of such horrific events.

Not enough reason to murder 150 people.

CruelCoin

Sand wrote: »

I was referring to his motivation, not the act itself.

What does the motivation matter?

What you are feeling is irrelevant in the face of what you actually do.

Attempting to play it down as a suicide make it seem a little less terrible. Maybe he was lonely, his wife left him, he was depressed, boo-****ing-hoo. It matters not a jot, because no matter what he was feeling or intending he murdered 140+ people.

Professional Griefer

Falthyron wrote: »

The investigator states the co-pilot was breathing normally. Surely, the decision to kill yourself and the interim period (being 8 minutes) would raise heart-rate, blood pressure and breathing!? If it was a suicide, I find the normal breathing the most baffling part...

He would have made the decision beforehand most likely and be at ease with it. This is truly heartbreaking, those poor people.

rob316

Wow the details of this are astonishing.

Kill yourself not 150 innocent men, women and children.

RIP to the souls so cruelly taken by a maniac.

eviltwin

The Moruga Scorpion wrote: »

Who knows? If I was betting on it though I'd say he found out his wife was cheating on him and or his child is not really his.

If you look throughout history thus has often been a cause of such horrific events.

Bit of a leap from that to killing yourself and over a hundred others

VinLieger

The fact that they either didnt follow procedure to have a cabin crew member replace the pilot or that such a procedure was not in place by the airline is pretty bad

chupacabra

I feel sick. Identical to LAM E190 in Botswana 2 years ago.

Wurzelbert

Tugboats wrote: »

pilots named

link?

Tugboats

So it looks like the passengers only knew in the last few seconds

"I think the victims only realised at the last moment because on the recording you only hear the screams literally on the last moments of the recording."

Tugboats

Wurzelbert wrote: »

link?

everywhere

zanador

Tugboats wrote: »

So it looks like the passengers only knew in the last few seconds

"I think the victims only realised at the last moment because on the recording you only hear the screams literally on the last moments of the recording."

If this is true then the pilot and cabin crew did an amazing job of not appearing panicked in the last 10 minutes. Very brave of them.

Streetwalker

I suppose considering the speed of the aircraft and the closeness to major European cities this nut could have decided to take out a building or skyscraper if he had chosen that route. Maybe we'll find more in due course very curious case indeed.

Cunning Stunt

zanador wrote: »

If this is true then the pilot and cabin crew did an amazing job of not appearing panicked in the last 10 minutes. Very brave of them.

I have been wondering about this myself...I don't know how the pilot could not have appeared panicked when he was trying to break into the cockpit. Surely that would have set alarm bells ringing for people? Maybe they closed the little curtains or something

Buona Fortuna

There's a good video on how the flight deck door works (shamelessy stolen from A&A)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94839852&postcount=895

Sand

CruelCoin wrote: »

What does the motivation matter?

What you are feeling is irrelevant in the face of what you actually do.

Attempting to play it down as a suicide make it seem a little less terrible. Maybe he was lonely, his wife left him, he was depressed, boo-****ing-hoo. It matters not a jot, because no matter what he was feeling or intending he murdered 140+ people.

Uh, so we can figure out why it happened and perhaps take steps to prevent it happening again?

You're pretending I'm sympathetic to the pilot or his motivations when I've described his actions as "horrific" and "an incredibly selfish act". I can see you're not dealing well with the news, and are looking for an argument about anything with anyone. Leave me out of it.

Wurzelbert

well, if the suicide theory turns out to be true, and that seems likely right now, then they certainly need to introduce even stricter psycho screening and enforce the rule to never have just one person in the cockpit...and answer to the question how it was allowed to happen on this flight...why when the pilot had to go to the toilet, nobody took his place for that period of time...and it would also appear the whole cockpit door regulation needs to be revised...

Sand

VinLieger wrote: »

The fact that they either didnt follow procedure to have a cabin crew member replace the pilot or that such a procedure was not in place by the airline is pretty bad

Depends on how many crew they have on the flight - most airlines are not going to have "spare" staff standing around with cost controls the way they are. They were cruising, so I presume the in-flight service would have begun or was beginning. Any spare cabin crew might have been tied up doing that.

And ultimately you're putting an unqualified stewardess, probably female into a fight in the cockpit for the controls with a 28 year old, male pilot. My bet is that on average the co-pilot would win that struggle. I think there should be 2 crew minimum in the cockpit at all times, but there also needs to be more in terms of preventing a singe crew member deliberately crashing the plane, but without preventing the pilot reacting quickly and perhaps single-handedly to an emergency. It's a very difficult problem.

Harry Palmr

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

I have been wondering about this myself...I don't know how the pilot could not have appeared panicked when he was trying to break into the cockpit. Surely that would have set alarm bells ringing for people? Maybe they closed the little curtains or something

"Is there a carpenter on board?"

This wouldn't be popular with airlines but maybe its time to have three pilots on all commercial passenger planes, two of whom must be on the flight deck and at the controls at all times.

Awesomeness

It was not suicide. It was mass murder

barneystinson

Awesomeness wrote: »

It was not suicide. It was mass murder

Mass murder / suicide.

Unless you think he hit the ejector seat button just before impact...

Flipper22

Tugboats wrote: »

So it looks like the passengers only knew in the last few seconds

"I think the victims only realised at the last moment because on the recording you only hear the screams literally on the last moments of the recording."

I can't see how that could be the case unfortunately. Any clued in passenger would realise pretty quickly that there was something wrong.