Putting on a music Festival

Mr.H

Ok so I've been playing around with the idea of staging a music festival/event in one of the non-Dublin cities

I know that I would need an outdoor event license (for capacities of over 5000) and assume that I need Insurance as well as the various fee's for each music act.

Has anyone looked into this before? I've downloaded this PDF outlining everything but there are well over 1000 pages in this thing so its not exactly light reading (all law speak also). So just wondering if anybody could give me the jest of what is needed to set up an event.

Ideally I would be looking at 10,000 - 20,000 and the acts I was thinking are of 'The Editors' 'The National' etc. That kind of level acts.

I just want to know what kind of costs are associated (besides the bands), such as security, insurance, licences, staff and so on. The marketing would obviously be an added cost but that can (I assume) be as little or as much as required.

ghostdancer

to put it bluntly, if you don't already know most of this stuff, you'll almost certainly end up with a complete shambles of an event and make yourself poor/bankrupt.

there are enough non-Dublin festivals of 5k-10k run by promoters who have been on the go for years that don't sell out or turn much of a profit. you, with seemingly no experience whatsoever in promotions, financing this event (i'd guess at least €1m to stage), let alone running it, is almost a sure bet for failure.

put on a few gigs and events for a few hundred people if you can, and take it from there.
if you actually have the money to bring over The National (i'd guess their fee c. €100k), then put on a gig with them (either existing venue or temp stage eg. The Marquee), and go from there.

GoldenTickets

Mr.H wrote: »

So just wondering if anybody could give me the jest of what is needed to set up an event.

I think you've just given us all exactly that.

Mr.H

Yea I agree that is risky but just because its risky doesnt mean its not worth looking at.

After all the Marquee had to start somewhere. It was once a pre-venue.

While I am not thinking that I can swoop in and do what Oxegen couldnt do (for example). I do think there is an opening in the market in lets say Limerick.

A city with a catchment area of almost 200k. Motorways from Dublin, Galway and in good distance from Cork along with train services from Waterford, Cork, Dublin, Galway. Then you have an International Airport and a Ship port for logistics. On top of that you have already established music know-hows with the likes of Dolans who can draw names. Potential venues such as Thomond Park (25k) Gaelic Grounds (50k) and alternative "festival grounds" such as the Uni, Coonagh, and the many unused industrial facilities that could hold an event such as this.

The national where priced at approx. €30k*

If they where in at that cost it would mean an audience of 10k people paying €3. Now I am not saying that would be the ticket cost. What I am saying is that looking at a potential line up of lets say

Muse (€140k+)*
The National (€30k-€40k)*
the Fratellies (€10k-€20k)*
O Emperor (unknown cost but surely not more than €20k considering the above)

Possibly by putting these as headliners with approx 6 local acts and family entertainment

we could be looking at a cost of €200k+

At a ticket cost of €70 and aiming for 15-20k in ticket sales that would be well within the realms of realism

IF only 10k paid €70 that would be an earning of €700,000 (I'm sure more than 10k people will pay €70 for that line up)

What I am trying to figure out, is it possible to stage an event such as this for less than €700k



Now I know the risk and I realise that lack of experience doesn't help. But Obviously I would be looking at getting an experienced partner on board for something this vast (mainly because there is so much involved).

I am just seeing if anyone has done this before (even on a smaller scale) and could they inform me of what costs would be associated. Because if it would cost over 650-700k than the risk reward would obviously be leaning in the "screw this idea"




* (these figures are based on a music promoter who was putting out band costs last year. This price has obviously a big plus or minus with it and is only used for the purpose of example)

GoldenTickets

Mr.H wrote: »

Because if it would cost over 650-700k than the risk reward would obviously be leaning in the "screw this idea"

Listen to this voice, listen with every ear you have!

Mr.H

GoldenTickets wrote: »

Listen to this voice, listen with every ear you have!

But if we all listened to that voice would we ever get to see some great festivals and gigs??

At the end of the day if we don't think "why not me" then who will?

Help!!!!

A long with ticket sales you would also charge food vendors, alcohol venders, Tshirt sellers etc a certain amount each

GoldenTickets

Mr.H wrote: »

But if we all listened to that voice would we ever get to see some great festivals and gigs??

At the end of the day if we don't think "why not me" then who will?

Well, I suppose aiming high is good... But I'd feel guilty encouraging you all the same given how much money you're sure to lose...

One piece of advice, consider approaching Aerosmith first, I've heard they're pretty charitable when it comes to gigs like this.

MagicMarker

Maybe start with organising a child's birthday party, then move up to Bar Mitzvahs. Eventually you could organise a gig in Whelans.

Your head is in cloud cuckoo talking about Muse and The National.

Birneybau

The fact that you think The Fratellis would be a draw is not really in your favour.

Furious-Red

Mr.H wrote: »

Yea I agree that is risky but just because its risky doesnt mean its not worth looking at.

After all the Marquee had to start somewhere. It was once a pre-venue.

While I am not thinking that I can swoop in and do what Oxegen couldnt do (for example). I do think there is an opening in the market in lets say Limerick.

A city with a catchment area of almost 200k. Motorways from Dublin, Galway and in good distance from Cork along with train services from Waterford, Cork, Dublin, Galway. Then you have an International Airport and a Ship port for logistics. On top of that you have already established music know-hows with the likes of Dolans who can draw names. Potential venues such as Thomond Park (25k) Gaelic Grounds (50k) and alternative "festival grounds" such as the Uni, Coonagh, and the many unused industrial facilities that could hold an event such as this.

The national where priced at approx. €30k*

If they where in at that cost it would mean an audience of 10k people paying €3. Now I am not saying that would be the ticket cost. What I am saying is that looking at a potential line up of lets say

Muse (€140k+)*
The National (€30k-€40k)*
the Fratellies (€10k-€20k)*
O Emperor (unknown cost but surely not more than €20k considering the above)

Possibly by putting these as headliners with approx 6 local acts and family entertainment

we could be looking at a cost of €200k+

At a ticket cost of €70 and aiming for 15-20k in ticket sales that would be well within the realms of realism

IF only 10k paid €70 that would be an earning of €700,000 (I'm sure more than 10k people will pay €70 for that line up)

What I am trying to figure out, is it possible to stage an event such as this for less than €700k



Now I know the risk and I realise that lack of experience doesn't help. But Obviously I would be looking at getting an experienced partner on board for something this vast (mainly because there is so much involved).

I am just seeing if anyone has done this before (even on a smaller scale) and could they inform me of what costs would be associated. Because if it would cost over 650-700k than the risk reward would obviously be leaning in the "screw this idea"




* (these figures are based on a music promoter who was putting out band costs last year. This price has obviously a big plus or minus with it and is only used for the purpose of example)

I doubt Muse only cost €140 to book. They are one of the biggest touring acts around so .

Dont Limerick use the Big Top tent during the summer too

delbertgrady

As ghostdancer said, you have to start small. There have been numerous examples of things going wrong at festivals over the last number of years where artists and/or ticket buyers have been left infuriated and the promoter maligned. You can't run before you can walk. Using the Marquee as an example of something that "had to start somewhere" isn't really a relevant comment, since it is run by Aiken Promotions, who has been active for decades and had already established good working relationships with many of the artists they brought over, not to mention the capital to invest in it. The venue is also walking distance from a city centre and has always had a diverse, high-profile list of acts.
Also, no major act will sign up to a new, unknown promoter, certainly not for a large scale gig.

Ferris_Bueller

I don't want to burst your bubble but if it was that easy to do then everyone would do it. I'm presuming you don't have any experience in areas such as this, unless you have a hell of a lot of cash I wouldn't advise risking it. If you're doing this just to try and make a load of money I can't see it working, but if you have a genuine interest in events and organising some kind of festival/gig you'd probably be much better off starting off smaller and then seeing how it goes from there.

I found this article about Knockanstockan quite interesting, it gives you a bit of an idea of the amount of effort and organisation that goes into organising something like this, and that's only a small festival!

Mr.H

Well this is still in the idea and feasibility stage right now.

Yea with the vendors and merch. etc. it would possibly cover the initial license cost €2500.

Aerosmith? Will check that out. Didnt consider a band actually wanting to help out. Was thinking more a long the lines of getting someone like Dolans, Thomond park etc to help event wise.

But as I said I'm just looking at figures before I start rocking the boat and talking to companies about this.

I would be looking to finance this initially through grants (to fund applications for licence's and part insurance)
Then sponsorship to help pay for the acts (Dolans, Munster Rugby, Live95 all before the local business's)
Then the takings from the gates as well as cash from vendors, merch and any other potential income could go to paying outstanding fee's, costs and a portion to a local charity (Limerick Animal Welfare being my ideal charity. Could even get them to have an early day family event to promote themselves)


There is potential there. The problem is initial costs and what those costs actually are for

delbertgrady

Ferris Bueller's post about Knockanstockan is an excellent starting point, not least because it's a small festival that relies heavily on a small, established network of people, and - crucially - is populated by acts who, in most cases, and with no disrespect intended, are basically unknown. Yet it still requires a hell of a lot of time and effort. Talking about booking Muse is a serious case of overreaching.

Birneybau

delbertgrady wrote: »

Ferris Bueller's post about Knockanstockan is an excellent starting point, not least because it's a small festival that relies heavily on a small, established network of people, and - crucially - is populated by acts who, in most cases, and with no disrespect intended, are basically unknown. Yet it still requires a hell of a lot of time and effort. Talking about booking Muse is a serious case of overreaching.

Talking about any Glastonbury headlining act really...Sure go for Daft Punk while you're at it.

Help!!!!

Check this out
https://www.facebook.com/pages/WEX-ROX/263382687204655

It wont make you millions but it could be a start. Wex-Rox all the bands play free of charge as its all about getting regular gigs.
Will get you experience though

Drakesha

5 cents from the bottom link in the chain. (musician, yes) Last year this month I had 10-12 festivals booked, now I have one :-)
Not a good time to start anything, unless you have a sponsor who can cover the loss, unless you have a pro team who'd deal with PR, legal, good accountant, someone who can get travel, accommodation, food special deals etc, 20+ volunteers, good knowledge or your target audience, good friends in local media and bulletproof nervous system. There's a 101 things which can and will go wrong, including the band being picked up in the wrong airport, lead singer being arrested, wrong size posters printed, sound man getting hormonal, half of the audience turning up 1 week before the gig because of the misspelling, bass player wanting to kill sound man, and so on....(insert your own experience here)
And I am not talking about the festival :-). Try to run something in Whelans, and you're ready for cardiac arrest.
And you're not eating for the next month.


I am running a small (100 seater) event, and the amount of hustle is unbelievable.
You do this for the love of it.
But if you never done it before - DON'T !!!

Not being negative, just realistic.

Furious-Red

Yea as everyone is saying start small.

Even book some gigs in the different venues around Limerick and build up a reputation before going straight into a big 10,000-20,000 capacity gig with im guessing no experience. Its not just like book the venue , book the band , put ticket onsale and go. There is so much other stuff to organise.

Also some acts will be cautious about going with a promoter who has no experience and also they will want a chunk of their fee as a deposit.

I know everyone wants to run their own big gigs (id love too) but start small even bring over bands who could sell out smaller venues. Like the guy who is booking Mastodon and Black Stone Cherry in Cork. Build up a portfolio

BullBlackNova

I'd say about 80%+ of people who work in the music industry in Ireland do so for the love of the job, not the financial rewards. I hope that some day I'll be reading the Ticket as Limerickfest goes global and you're saying "The Boards.ie community laughed at me - look at me now!" but these are phenomenally difficult enterprises to get off the ground.

As was mentioned above, there are a few bookers who make names for themselves by putting on regular gigs in Cork, etc. (Edel Curtin @ Coughland's Live is the latest and she's doing a killer job) but this is far from a case of picking bands and throwing money at it.

Plus, "it's about 1000 words of legal speak"... Yep. That's the problem. Read the damn thing or you'll bankrupt yourself. Hell, you might bankrupt yourself anyway...

And, finally, you've got to be kidding when you say you think you could Muse to play to 10k people in Limerick, right? Look at Indiependence - has been going 10 years and they still struggle with big acts, picking them up in the second year of their touring cycle.

You're looking at Limerick as a logistical nightmare for bands - most take in Ireland as part of a UK/Europe tour. They want to get the ferry to Dublin, play, up the road to Belfast, ferry to Scotland, and out. It's easy to transport equipment, etc. Factoring Cork in is difficult for most bands, Limerick would be an added issue - I imagine it would ramp up expenses big time.

And the Fratellis are not a band that will shift any tickets. Actually, are the Fratellis still a band?

ghostdancer

Mr.H wrote: »

Muse (€140k+)*
The National (€30k-€40k)*
the Fratellies (€10k-€20k)*
O Emperor (unknown cost but surely not more than €20k considering the above)


* (these figures are based on a music promoter who was putting out band costs last year. This price has obviously a big plus or minus with it and is only used for the purpose of example)

a very big plus or minus really, as they're way off.

The Killers were 500k for EP a few years ago, Muse aren't coming in at less than that, probably closer to 750k.
The National aren't far off headlining festivals themselves, no chance they're coming in at 40k, very minimum they're double that.
Fratellis is probably accurate enough.
O Emperor i wouldn't imagine would even be 5k.

your imaginary takings of 10k people at €70 wouldn't even cover the bands, let alone security, insurance, infrastructure, general overheads etc.


and while i'm at it, how are you planning to pay for this? most of the costs of putting it on will have to be paid before the festival even takes place. unless you happen to have 500k just sitting around ready to be used, you'll have no way to finance this. no bank will entertain such a risky idea.
established promoters (and realistically, there's only 3 in the country that have gotten big enough to do it) can afford to because they have money in the bank from building up and having a wide portfolio of gigs over many years.
e: i see you're talking about grants, sponsorship, and ticket takings. grants and sponsorship won't even cover the insurance, let alone anything else. any half-known band will want most, if not all of their fee up front. you can't factor in ticket sales for anything other than paying off suppliers after the fact that might let you buy on credit, although any supplier worth their salt would demand the money upfront from a new business, and i don't see it being any different with a brand new concert promoter.

Drakesha

Mr. H, if you're still reading this....
I find the replies here being intelligent and informative, I hope you don't feel you're being put down like a rabbit.
Numbers and details aside.....somebody above said 'If you didn't do it before - don't'. Agree 100%

BadTurtle

Oh deary deary me.

TrustedApple

They tried to do a one day music Festival in my home town and it failed badly like extremely bad. They desired to hold it in the local park witch would be quite big for a music festival could easily fit 10k if not more standing in it. They basically dug up the hole park and even cut down the tress in the place for it.

I went down there the day it was on to see was anyone around for it there was not at all. There was more people standing around who where helpers at the music festival at the gate into the car park.

I found €20 way to much for the line up they had for this it was basically Paddy Cassy and Bressie doing a DJ set who was the headliner to make things worse.

I think they ended up with 500 - 700 at it at best witch is say didn't even cover the costs of it like say 600 people paid that is only €12,000 to cover the costs of the stage, lighting, speakers, Generators, Security, Drinks Licence and so on.

So thinking the large bands will even give you a look at you need to stop dreaming as must need some kind of proof of who you are and what have you done before. I was speaking to someone who books gigs for there pub and sometimes they lose a lot of money. Then another guy i know used to book metal gigs and the likes but he had to stop as he had no money to book anything as you need a huge outlay and a crap ton of money to even book anything.

In waterford they also have daytripper witch would be in there 3rd year this year and i think in the 1st year they lost there balls on it then last year i think they broke even. A few years before that 50 Cent played in waterford and i think they barely sold 2K tickets for it and you could watch the gig across the road from the car park for free as it was so badly set up from the photos i have seen and what i have been told. They even had to say acts had travel problems as they couldn't pay them as they where losing to much money coming up to the weeks before the gig

Lemag

I would love to see a big covers band festival. One could create their dream lineup (dead or alive) and then seek out the best cover act for each respective band/artist. Imagine a line up with Jimi Hendrix, the Doors, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin..

Thundercats Ho

Lemag wrote: »

I would love to see a big covers band festival. One could create their dream lineup (dead or alive) and then seek out the best cover act for each respective band/artist. Imagine a line up with Jimi Hendrix, the Doors, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin..

There used to be one called Shamrock, but the website isn't live anymore.
It obviously wasn't a runner.
I never went to it, but it does sound like a good idea.

Toast

Lemag wrote: »

I would love to see a big covers band festival.

http://www.glastonbudget.org/

nxbyveromdwjpg

Lemag wrote: »

I would love to see a big covers band festival. One could create their dream lineup (dead or alive) and then seek out the best cover act for each respective band/artist. Imagine a line up with Jimi Hendrix, the Doors, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin..

Already happened, in Punchestown no less.

http://www.rockathon.ie/About.html

Pretty sure it bombed, or at least I never heard anything much about it at all which is what I'm basing that on

bodhrandude

There was a dance festival that was organised by folk in Limerick back in 2010, 2011 called Bump Musick Festival, it was camping in 10,11 anyway but they discontinued the camping festival which was held in Clare about fifteen minutes from Limerick. They didn't make great money in 2011 so the festival reverted to a few club nights the following year in Limerick city instead. No doubt MR H you will know some of these guys, track them down and get a bit of info from them.

nxbyveromdwjpg

I don't know why people are saying it's impossible to be fair, it could be done and can be obviously as they are, the only bit wrong is the sums.

The stuff about grants, not a hope, you would need massive capital for this.

You could start by booking a small to mid level band to a small venue on a split arrangement and take it from there.

MagicMarker

nm wrote: »

I don't know why people are saying it's impossible to be fair, it could be done and can be obviously as they are, the only bit wrong is the sums.

The stuff about grants, not a hope, you would need massive capital for this.

You could start by booking a small to mid level band to a small venue on a split arrangement and take it from there.

Of course it can be done, if you have the money, resources, reputation, contacts and experience.

The OP has none of this. It can't be done by him.