Old house in Blackrock VS new house in Stepaside

NewBuyer1

Looking for opinions on our situation as we can't find consensus with the other half on what house we should buy.
We are a couple in late thirties with one child, buying power approx 520K. Daughter has started school in Blackrock and we are keen to keep her in this particular school (a feeder school for a hard-to-get-to secondary school)We viewed several properties in Blackrock and in surrounding SCD areas and all we can get a is small terraced house for our money in the area (the quality of these houses is questionable). One house in particular that we viewed recently is in the good neighbourhood, semi-d, has issues with damp, with no insulation, no double-glazing, all these will need to be addressed.
We visited friends last week who got a new house in Stepaside (nice and warm A-rated house) and were quite impressed. The other half is now determined to get one of these houses, however I am in doubt, I think we should concentrate on Blackrock, I know nothing about Stepaside apart from what our friends telling us on what's the demographics, crime rate etc. How liquid the market is in Stepaside.
We are confused as whether we should go for "location, location, location" or a new house in relatively ok area?
Any opinions please.

Millem

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

Looking for opinions on our situation as we can't find consensus with the other half on what house we should buy.
We are a couple in late thirties with one child, buying power approx 520K. Daughter has started school in Blackrock and we are keen to keep her in this particular school (a feeder school for a hard-to-get-to secondary school)We viewed several properties in Blackrock and in surrounding SCD areas and all we can get a is small terraced house for our money in the area (the quality of these houses is questionable). One house in particular that we viewed recently is in the good neighbourhood, semi-d, has issues with damp, with no insulation, no double-glazing, all these will need to be addressed.
We visited friends last week who got a new house in Stepaside (nice and warm A-rated house) and were quite impressed. The other half is now determined to get one of these houses, however I am in doubt, I think we should concentrate on Blackrock, I know nothing about Stepaside apart from what our friends telling us on what's the demographics, crime rate etc. How liquid the market is in Stepaside.
We are confused as whether we should go for "location, location, location" or a new house in relatively ok area?
Any opinions please.

For me I would go with blackrock. It is a great place, great schools, dart, playground, amenities etc etc You could always extend the house?
I am not a fan of stepaside especially belarmine....way way way to many houses/apartments.
If you move to stepaside and have another baby their is a high probability that your second child won't get into the blackrock primary school so you will end up doing two school drops
Would you consider stillorgan?

jon1981

While the condition of the house is important, assuming the Blackrock home is in walk condition and all other things being equal such as the size, number of bedrooms, perspective and garden size, i'd go with location on this one. If the location fits the lifestyle, i.e proximity to a well provisioned village, public transport options and schools then Blackrock would win for me but not all things are equal in your case and it seems you would be making alot of house quality compromises just for location.

You can always uplift and improve the warmth of an older home assuming it has the potential to start with...

[edited]

Millem

jon1981 wrote: »

While the condition of the house is important, assuming the Blackrock home is in walk condition and all other things being equal such as the size, number of bedrooms, perspective and garden size, i'd go with location on this one. If the location fits the lifestyle, i.e proximity to a well provisioned village, public transport options and schools then Blackrock would win for me.

You can always uplift and improve the warmth of an older home.

Blackrock home will be much smaller, worse BER etc etc as it is more expensive area than stepaside. OP Did you see the 3 bed in Orpen 80m2 for €495k but it has a 100ft garden.
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/42-orpen-green-blackrock-co-dublin/3093108
The 3rd room in these is very much a box room.

jon1981

Wow such small floor space with very limited (if any) scope to extend. If the OP plans to have more than 2 kids you'll be looking at another move down the road.

Millem

jon1981 wrote: »

Wow such small floor space with very limited (if any) scope to extend. If the OP plans to have more than 2 kids you'll be looking at another move down the road.

You don't get much for your money in blackrock alright but you can defo extend that. Loads of neighbours have and you could do the attic? Although we got a quote for 20k as it has a trussed roof we were told extension is the better option.
We are sale agreed on a similar property

jon1981

Millem wrote: »

You don't get much for your money in blackrock alright but you can deflect end that. Loads of neighbours have and you could do the attic? Although we got a quote for 20k as it has a trussed roof
We are sale agreed on a similar property

Sorry, deflect end?

Millem

jon1981 wrote: »

Sorry, deflect end?

Sorry it was predictive text! I fixed it.
You can extend...a lot of houses in the estate have.

NewBuyer1

Millem wrote: »

For me I would go with blackrock. It is a great place, great schools, dart, playground, amenities etc etc You could always extend the house?
I am not a fan of stepaside especially belarmine....way way way to many houses/apartments.
If you move to stepaside and have another baby their is a high probability that your second child won't get into the blackrock primary school so you will end up doing two school drops
Would you consider stillorgan?

I would happily extend, but we now have slightly over 80k which is just enough for a deposit. I reckon we'd need another 40k if we are to extend a house. We do consider Stillorgan as well as Booterstown, MountMerrion & Clonskeagh.

NewBuyer1

jon1981 wrote: »

While the condition of the house is important, assuming the Blackrock home is in walk condition and all other things being equal such as the size, number of bedrooms, perspective and garden size, i'd go with location on this one. If the location fits the lifestyle, i.e proximity to a well provisioned village, public transport options and schools then Blackrock would win for me but not all things are equal in your case and it seems you would be making alot of house quality compromises just for location.

You can always uplift and improve the warmth of an older home assuming it has the potential to start with...

[edited]

Thanks, Jon. The place we're looking at is 1010 sq ft (or 93 sq m), our friend's house in Stepaside is around 130 sq.m. We brought in a builder to the house we're interested, his quote is 32K for all the necessary things that needs to be done (floors, walls insulation, new boiler, downstairs wc, flooring etc). But the thing is we don't have the money for it right now (however, we can start with smaller things, like new carpets and plastering). And we are planning for a second child, postponing this actually because of this deposit-saving and house hunting.
The other half is determined to have another baby this/next year, hence are her reasons for having a house in a turn-key condition.

Sala

What about this http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/25-barclay-court-blackrock-county-dublin/3124018 They keep renewing the ad, make it look new, rather than let it look like it's been up a while. Needs work but they might take an offer. I'm not familiar with the estate though

anncoates

What's a damp, smelly, cramped house for life when you can live in a good postcode?

jon1981

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

Thanks, Jon. The place we're looking at is 1010 sq ft (or 93 sq m), our friend's house in Stepaside is around 130 sq.m. We brought in a builder to the house we're interested, his quote is 32K for all the necessary things that needs to be done (floors, walls insulation, new boiler, downstairs wc, flooring etc). But the thing is we don't have the money for it right now (however, we can start with smaller things, like new carpets and plastering). And we are planning for a second child, postponing this actually because of this deposit-saving and house hunting.
The other half is determined to have another baby this/next year, hence are her reasons for having a house in a turn-key condition.

You'd be surprised how extensions can add up. A friend of mine in stillorgan with a 3 bed semi just added an attic conversion (bedroom and ensuite), 60k in total. It's a lovely conversion, they had to extend it out like a box shape so that they could fit in the stairs without taking away space from the 1st floor bedroom. He has 2 kids but at the stage now were the kids are entering/in their teens and 1 bathroom just doesn't cut it anymore and also he works from home alot so needs an office or some sort of space.

So I guess consider the longer picture and what space you will need. Stepaside is far out but the house probably suits better in terms of space and function.

NewBuyer1

Millem wrote: »

Blackrock home will be much smaller, worse BER etc etc as it is more expensive area than stepaside. OP Did you see the 3 bed in Orpen 80m2 for €495k but it has a 100ft garden.
The 3rd room in these is very much a box room.

Thanks, this is exactly it, the houses we look at are extremely small. As for the Orpen - not only I saw it, we are currently renting in Orpen and the one thing I know for sure - we won't be buying here. The house is very narrow and even with the minimal furniture it feels extremely cramped. Also, the soundproofing so bad in these houses that in one bedroom I can hear my neighbour singing a lullaby (very quietly:)) to her baby.
One of the neighbours has converted her attic actually and I went to see it - it wasn't much bigger than the box room.
This garden does look nice however.
Unfortunately, the only extension possible with terraced houses is ground floor extension, there is no way to build a two storey extension here, as above ground extensions must be 2m from any party boundary.

Day Lewin

I would pounce on Blackrock. It will never lose value, can only gain. Best possible location.

Stepaside is much more remote, awkward to get to, and - forgive me - not such a classy neighbourhood (unless the older, hillside houses). (which get snowed in, in winter, no kidding)

Even an old-fashioned house can be fixed up, bit by bit; I honestly think you might regret Stepaside but you'd never regret Blackrock. Next door to everywhere, excellent transport, facilities, views, beach, library, restaurants, fabric shop, bookshops - AND suburban prestige, if you care about that - what's not to love about Blackrock?

Millem

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

Thanks, this is exactly it, the houses we look at are extremely small. As for the Orpen - not only I saw it, we are currently renting in Orpen and the one thing I know for sure - we won't be buying here. The house is very narrow and even with the minimal furniture it feels extremely cramped. Also, the soundproofing so bad in these houses that in one bedroom I can hear my neighbour singing a lullaby (very quietly:)) to her baby.
One of the neighbours has converted her attic actually and I went to see it - it wasn't much bigger than the box room.
This garden does look nice however.
Unfortunately, the only extension possible with terraced houses is ground floor extension, there is no way to build a two storey extension here, as above ground extensions must be 2m from any party boundary.

I haven't viewed it as it came on the market after we went sale agreed! We are not in Orpen but close. I also looked at some in st augustines but didn't like the estate! I know the houses are narrow but its all about the location! I love all the green space up there! Very handy for carysfort ns...is that the school? That is where I would like to send on son.

We don't plan on doing a two storey extension, only a ground floor one. I don't think we would get planning permission as we would block light for neighbours.
Tbh soundproofing is a big problems in a lot of newish (in the last 30 years) houses! We rent at the mo and can here everything next door! Our house is around 18 years old! Before that we were in a 1950s house and it was pure solid!!!!

zagmund

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

there is no way to build a two storey extension here, as above ground extensions must be 2m from any party boundary.

Are you sure about that bit? You're not mixing it up with 2m from the back boundary by any chance?

z

jon1981

katemarch wrote: »

I would pounce on Blackrock. It will never lose value, can only gain. Best possible location.

Stepaside is much more remote, awkward to get to, and - forgive me - not such a classy neighbourhood (unless the older, hillside houses). (which get snowed in, in winter, no kidding)

Even an old-fashioned house can be fixed up, bit by bit; I honestly think you might regret Stepaside but you'd never regret Blackrock. Next door to everywhere, excellent transport, facilities, views, beach, library, restaurants, fabric shop, bookshops - AND suburban prestige, if you care about that - what's not to love about Blackrock?

But the place is 1000 sqft! The OP will have to move eventually if he/she can't extend.

jon1981

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

Unfortunately, the only extension possible with terraced houses is ground floor extension, there is no way to build a two storey extension here, as above ground extensions must be 2m from any party boundary.

Our neighbour a terraced house built a ground floor extension. There is no rule about 2m from the boundary wall but there is with the boundary wall at the end of the garden i believe, 100ft would be fine. You can build up to 40sqm without planning.

Millem

jon1981 wrote: »

Our neighbour a terraced house built a ground floor extension. There is no rule about 2m from the boundary wall but there is with the boundary wall at the end of the garden i believe, 100ft would be fine. You can build up to 40sqm without planning.

We were told we can't build on boundary walls without permission but what people do is they leave a few cms!
We worked out around 25sqm would probably work best as the room would be narrow! So that would give you 105sqm. The engineer said it would cost around €30k.
We plan on saving for a year or two to pay for an extension.
OP did you look at stilorgan Heath at the top of upper kilmacud rd? There is one there for €495k, I would say soundproofing is similar to Orpen and it wouldn't be in blackrock parish for schools.
Or marsham court? They are only 80something sqm and again wouldn't be in parish.

jon1981

Millem wrote: »

We were told we can't build on boundary walls without permission but what people do is they leave a few cms!
We worked out around 25sqm would probably work best as the room would be narrow! So that would give you 105sqm. The engineer said it would cost around €30k.
We plan on saving for a year or two to pay for an extension.
OP did you look at stilorgan Heath at the top of upper kilmacud rd? There is one there for €495k, I would say soundproofing is similar to Orpen and it wouldn't be in blackrock parish for schools.

Yeah i wouldn't build on boundary walls, it's a nightmare and leads to trouble. Leaving a few cms is that way most do it. The problem with a boundary wall starts when there is a problem after the build and who is responsible for what. Building on the boundary is more trouble than it's worth, granted the finished is cleaner looking, still i wouldn't.

NewBuyer1

zagmund wrote: »

Are you sure about that bit? You're not mixing it up with 2m from the back boundary by any chance?

z

I am very certain about this,
dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/planning/faqs/

NewBuyer1

jon1981 wrote: »

Our neighbour a terraced house built a ground floor extension. There is no rule about 2m from the boundary wall but there is with the boundary wall at the end of the garden i believe, 100ft would be fine. You can build up to 40sqm without planning.

There is no rule for the ground floor extension, but there is one for any extension above ground floor level - it is to be at least 2m from any boundary.

ted1

To me blackrock is a total no brainer. Stepaside is remote and u established with. When you live beside the sea you'd never move away from it.
Blackrock has a established village, schools, public transport, no room for further development ( you know it won't change ) you can get home and to work in the winter ( stepaside residents tend to get snowed in or stuck on ice before others)

ted1

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

There is no rule for the ground floor extension, but there is one for any extension above ground floor level - it is to be at least 2m from any boundary.

There's rules firbthe ground floor saying you bed to keep 25 sq m of outdoor space, you can't have a window with 11 ft if a neighbours window. Etc

ted1

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

Thanks, Jon. The place we're looking at is 1010 sq ft (or 93 sq m), our friend's house in Stepaside is around 130 sq.m. We brought in a builder to the house we're interested, his quote is 32K for all the necessary things that needs to be done (floors, walls insulation, new boiler, downstairs wc, flooring etc). But the thing is we don't have the money for it right now (however, we can start with smaller things, like new carpets and plastering). And we are planning for a second child, postponing this actually because of this deposit-saving and house hunting.
The other half is determined to have another baby this/next year, hence are her reasons for having a house in a turn-key condition.

32k is a crazy price if your not adding e tra space. Was that external insulation?

2k for a boiler, 5 k for a top end bathroom and 900 to insulate each bedroom.

External insulation Costs approx 20k and it'll take 40+ years to make back the saving.

zagmund

NewBuyer1 wrote: »

I am very certain about this,
dlrcoco.ie/aboutus/councildepartments/planning/faqs/

The only reference I found to this was in a section entitled "Can I build an extension to my home without having to seek planning permission?"

I'm pretty sure that with planning permission you can build up to (but not on, unless you want a nightmare with your neighbours) the party.

Otherwise you would see all these lego block extensions on the back of houses all over the place, with big 4 meter gaps between houses.

z

mickman

katemarch wrote: »

I would pounce on Blackrock. It will never lose value, can only gain. Best possible location.

Stepaside is much more remote, awkward to get to, and - forgive me - not such a classy neighbourhood (unless the older, hillside houses). (which get snowed in, in winter, no kidding)

Even an old-fashioned house can be fixed up, bit by bit; I honestly think you might regret Stepaside but you'd never regret Blackrock. Next door to everywhere, excellent transport, facilities, views, beach, library, restaurants, fabric shop, bookshops - AND suburban prestige, if you care about that - what's not to love about Blackrock?

It can only gain???? Oh dear

Kunkka

I'm from Blackrock and lived there for 25 years. I have lived in Stepaside for the last year and much prefer it up here. Areas of Blackrock can be great but don't be fooled about people saying the crime rate is smaller there as I know for a fact that burglaries do happen quite frequently in Blackrock, a lot of it is blamed on a certain community that live 5 minutes from the main village. In saying that I am just living with my fiancee with no kids so that isn't something I've had to address up here and I'd agree with other posters that Blackrock is better school wise as there are a lot of options. Some people have mentioned that Stepaside is very out of the way??? It's closer to the m50, 5 minutes from Dundrum, closer to the Luas, feels like your outside Dublin but you have all the benefits of being in Dublin and in the summer you have a 15 minute drive to Enniskerry or other really nice parts of Wicklow.

Ush1

I'd go with Blackrock as you're nearer the coast and the city.

I prefer getting an older house as insulation and air tightness can be addressed when you're redecorating/plastering etc.. Really make the house your own bit by bit.

helimachoptor

a bit of a balanced view needed here and op myself and the wife are in a similar-ish position.

Same price for house
- Stepaside walk-in condition, High BER, No Garden, Massive development, bad traffic, the snow :eek:, and an area with no real identity due to the recent influx


- House (not in blackrock but close enough), need some renovation, slightly bigger than a house in Stepaside but more importantly the space is on 2 floors and not 3, a lot of the new houses are 160-180 sq meters, but when its over 3 floors you dont feel they are that big. Lower BER so higher heating costs. Sense of community especially is the very mature areas, no real threat of an apartment complex popping up next door to you, transport links, closer to the sea and other places.


- You can make an argument one is safer (crime wise) but as blackrock is generally an affluent areas, it will be targeted for robberies etc, you're probably less likely to have an issue with personal crime (but thats my own view rather than statistics)

Really its a preference for you OP, you'll get a bigger house in stepaside however a lot of those you wont have an option to extend bar converting the attic, so its its 120 sq m, your stuck with that. In older areas you will be able to extend at some point.


Best of luck, house hunting can be pretty stressfull